Working same muscle group on consecutive days.

[Nubgains]

Working out the same muscle group on consecutive days. I've always been under the impression that we should avoid this. But why? Does it prevent proper recovery? Increase accumulative fatigue? Something else? All of the above?

I'm also led to believe high level lifters, like Olympians don't abide by this rule. Is it simply because they have years of experience that has developed their work capacity to extremely high limits?

For me, I'm doing a 3 day, non consecutive full-body routine, but I often want to throw in a fourth session Saturday arvo. That would be at most 24hrs from my previous workout. I've avoided it, simply on the premise of "just follow the routine and don't modify it".

Is it really a bad idea? Say, I do add it in, adjust nutrition and monitor fatigue and progress. I often feel we hold back a little too much sometimes. I could switch programs, but I want to see this one through, I don't like program hopping.


Just some shower thoughts, what do the more experienced folks think?

[Anthony21]

I wouldn't say it's a bad idea. I'm running a program that's full body and I'm lifting 5x a week. I trained OHP and Squats today. Tomorrow I'll be hitting bench and Safety Bar squats tomorrow. I think it's just how you program and manage your volume, intensity, and fatigue.

[ECGordyn]

Working out the same muscle group on consecutive days. I've always been under the impression that we should avoid this. But why? Does it prevent proper recovery? Increase accumulative fatigue? Something else? All of the above?

I'm also led to believe high level lifters, like Olympians don't abide by this rule. Is it simply because they have years of experience that has developed their work capacity to extremely high limits?

For me, I'm doing a 3 day, non consecutive full-body routine, but I often want to throw in a fourth session Saturday arvo. That would be at most 24hrs from my previous workout. I've avoided it, simply on the premise of "just follow the routine and don't modify it".

Is it really a bad idea? Say, I do add it in, adjust nutrition and monitor fatigue and progress. I often feel we hold back a little too much sometimes. I could switch programs, but I want to see this one through, I don't like program hopping.


Just some shower thoughts, what do the more experienced folks think?

Olympians need frequent stimulation because they've been training so long that 3-4 times a week no longer stimulates their body enough. The rest of us are fine on 3-4 times a week. Olympians also need to train their technique to absolute perfection, whereas the general population is fine just getting stronger and looking better. Olympians also have an off-season where they train less frequently, allow their body to recover and resensitize to the next period of frequent training.

That said, you can train more frequently if you manage fatigue well enough. It sounds easy to do, but it's pretty complicated to do correctly. It's also not something you want to do long-term, so you should plan for what to do after your round of frequent training.

What's your program, and what do you want to do on the 4th day?

[air2fakie]

It depends on how you program it - you provide no info so no one can say what you should do or shouldn't. But if you're following a set program and add in a 4th day sometimes or all the time, then you're not following the program anymore.

If you have a 3-day FB program and want to make it 4 days, you should adjust exercises and volume on each day so overall volume is the same and the exercises are logically set up for each day, or if you're looking for more volume, increase overall volume gradually.

[Nubgains]

Good points across the board. Fatigue seems to be the most obvious concern here, which I agree with.

As for air2fakie, I didn't provide a lot of personal info, because I was mostly thinking in generalized terms. But, I am following the F5 novice program. I really like it, but feel it lacks volume on chest, hams and maybe some upper back/shoulders. I haven't modified it at all, because the advice is 99% the time, don't change it. Which I agree with, most of the time. Not because a program can't be improved but because giving advice like that to someone over the internet is tricky. The changes people often want to make, may not make sense for them individually or they may in fact not be able to monitor their fatigue and progress properly.

Here's another question. How can a program adequately account for volume when each individual may very well be quite different from the next person? Maybe F5 is too much for 1 person and not enough for another? I think learning (or teaching) how to best monitor signs of fatigue, too fast of progression, too slow, etc would be the best route. Rather than a flat statement that don't change anything, ever. I for one, don't think I've ever over-trained. So judging how much more I can put into a week is a little dicey.

I'm just spitballing here, don't take any of this to heart. I'm a curious fellow and I like to broaden my knowledge. I'm looking into some study down the road to help me on that front.

Thanks for the replies.

[jademonkey]

I think perhaps people recommend beginners "just follow the program" because (1) a lot of people are just dumb, (2) even smart people can get caught up in what they feel like doing vs what's best, (3) beginners don't know what they don't know. No one does, but beginners in general tend to not realize how much they don't know. Once you are doing something for a while, learned a lot, studied, you start to really realize how much you don't know and are more able to plan carefully taking what you do know into account. (4) pretty much anything done correctly and consistently will work for beginners to gain strength and mass, so no need to complicate it too much. Adding too much, if the beginner needs more rest, can potentially cause them to not be able to put as much effort into the main lifts.

Yes, I believe we are all different: one guy might have 4 young kids, a long hours job, less than 6 hours of sleep per night, little prior physical activities, and be beat up by standard beginner program. Another guy (me for instance) has no kids, a relaxed job, years of prior gymnastics, bike racing, skating, juggling, hockey, etc. and is very familiar with training in general and much better body awareness than your average beginner. I probably could have started with fierce 5 but likely would have outgrown it pretty quickly. I started with a PPL variation and it worked fine. I built up to almost 2 hours a day 5 days a week quickly but ate a ton and slept even more (10 hours a night often). I still don't think I needed all that, I just enjoyed it.

I say go for it with an extra day. You could always split the consecutive days and just do half the exercises each day but add a few sets, or an extra similar exercise. Or just make sure to not push quite to failure on the first day. Or just eat a lot and sleep a lot. Food and rest works wonders.

[ECGordyn]

The changes people often want to make, may not make sense for them individually or they may in fact not be able to monitor their fatigue and progress properly.

Here's another question. How can a program adequately account for volume when each individual may very well be quite different from the next person? Maybe F5 is too much for 1 person and not enough for another? I think learning (or teaching) how to best monitor signs of fatigue, too fast of progression, too slow, etc would be the best route. Rather than a flat statement that don't change anything, ever. I for one, don't think I've ever over-trained. So judging how much more I can put into a week is a little dicey.

For beginners, the best approach is the simplest approach. Beginners just need to start training, learn the movements, eat and sleep well, and track their progress over time. When they stop progressing within a short time period, then they need to try out different strategies like periodized training, higher volume, increased frequency, etc.

A beginner should start simple because it gives them a lot of room to improve later. If they start out with high volume / high frequency, then they will adapt to that, and they will have nowhere to go once they pass the beginner stage.

To answer your question, a beginner trainee doesn't know much about their body's response to training in the beginning. They need experience to learn how their body responds to certain training styles, and then they can develop a personalized training program. An advanced lifter certainly doesn't follow a general cookie-cutter program. But general programs work fine for most people as they learn more about training.

Think of it like a university education. For the first 2 years, everyone has to take mostly the same core classes. In years 3 & 4, people start to specialize in their major. At the master's level, they get more specific for 2 or 3 more years, and then at the doctoral level they get very, very specific in their particular field.

Or building a house. You install the details of the window frames, doorknobs, light fixtures, cabinet handles, furniture, paint the walls all after you've built the flat foundation and plain walls. You need the basic foundation and walls before you can build anything else.

[air2fakie]

Good points across the board. Fatigue seems to be the most obvious concern here, which I agree with.

As for air2fakie, I didn't provide a lot of personal info, because I was mostly thinking in generalized terms. But, I am following the F5 novice program. I really like it, but feel it lacks volume on chest, hams and maybe some upper back/shoulders. I haven't modified it at all, because the advice is 99% the time, don't change it. Which I agree with, most of the time. Not because a program can't be improved but because giving advice like that to someone over the internet is tricky. The changes people often want to make, may not make sense for them individually or they may in fact not be able to monitor their fatigue and progress properly.

Here's another question. How can a program adequately account for volume when each individual may very well be quite different from the next person? Maybe F5 is too much for 1 person and not enough for another? I think learning (or teaching) how to best monitor signs of fatigue, too fast of progression, too slow, etc would be the best route. Rather than a flat statement that don't change anything, ever. I for one, don't think I've ever over-trained. So judging how much more I can put into a week is a little dicey.

I'm just spitballing here, don't take any of this to heart. I'm a curious fellow and I like to broaden my knowledge. I'm looking into some study down the road to help me on that front.

Thanks for the replies.

I didn't design the program so no offense taken - it's a novice program and works well for its intended purpose. One novice isn't going to have drastically different needs than another. If you're still making progress with it, stick to it. If you don't feel it's enough volume for your special needs, pick a different program. If you feel you've progressed beyond F5 novice, do the 4-day U/L rather than add an additional day to the novice program.

But don't expect someone to make a novice program designed to be customized to what each user thinks are his or her own special needs. A lot more thought was put into it than you've given it. Be careful of thinking you need to customize every program to your needs, or you may end up spinning your wheels. But there are other options out there including in the stickies, so pick one you'll be happy with.

[Nubgains]

Some great replies, thank you. Given me some to think about. As I said, I don't like program hopping, so I'll stick with it for maybe a couple deload cycles and reassess where I'm at and what I feel would be the next step.