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  1. #61
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    Unfortunately doctors do not get any training in nutrition and it shows.
    I think that applies to everyone not just doctors. There are good (well informed) doctors and not so good and then same goes for nutritionist and everyone other profession I guess.

    So whats your opinion about the subject Mbrp. Is meat a good thing or bad in the long run? I am thinking more in terms of longevity.
    Last edited by Drewie79; 06-21-2020 at 07:49 PM.
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  2. #62
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    Originally Posted by Drewie79 View Post
    So whats your opinion about the subject Mbrp. Is meat a good thing or bad in the long run? I am thinking more in terms of longevity.
    Unprocessed poultry and fish as part of a healthy diet rich in vegetables and fruit: healthy.

    Unprocessed red meat as part of a healthy diet rich in vegetables and fruit: controversial. IMO good idea to limit it.

    Processed meat: better to avoid.
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  3. #63
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    Unprocessed poultry and fish as part of a healthy diet rich in vegetables and fruit: healthy.

    Unprocessed red meat as part of a healthy diet rich in vegetables and fruit: controversial. IMO good idea to limit it.

    Processed meat: better to avoid.
    I agree with this completely.
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  4. #64
    Registered User Rasalisk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    Unprocessed poultry and fish as part of a healthy diet rich in vegetables and fruit: healthy.

    Unprocessed red meat as part of a healthy diet rich in vegetables and fruit: controversial. IMO good idea to limit it.

    Processed meat: better to avoid.

    Also agree, would note that having a healthy balance of fish for natural oils etc can supplement macro intake
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  5. #65
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    Processed meats can have some pretty unpleasant stuff in them which in excess could lead to poorer health (though i'm not sure they would directly affect performance).

    Meat in general? Why would it have any more detrimental affect than any other food with a similar macro/micro profile. Quorn chicken for instance has slightly more saturated fat by weight than a skinless chicken breast and far more preservatives. Just to add to this the link between saturated fat and poor healthy hasn't been proven.

    Agree with above posters, anyone making such dramatic and sweeping claims is definitely pushing an agenda. Even if that agenda isn't overt

    Can i also just say that if they are medical doctors, their in depth grasp of nutritional science is usually quite rudimentary. Just because they are doctors it doesn't mean they are beyond question. I would trust a scientific expert in physiology and nutrition leaps and bounds beyond a medical doctor on this subject.
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  6. #66
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    Unprocessed poultry and fish as part of a healthy diet rich in vegetables and fruit: healthy.

    Unprocessed red meat as part of a healthy diet rich in vegetables and fruit: controversial. IMO good idea to limit it.

    Processed meat: better to avoid.
    I would like to see studies conducted where they don’t use beef. Maybe another form of red meat like venison, buffalo, elk, ostrich etc. If there has been such a study already I would love to see the results.

    Maybe that wouldn’t be as relevant as beef is what 99% of people consume as red meat and using another type would result in saying “red meat is healthy” but I bet the results would be different.
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    If you eat wild meat you risk parasites.
    If you eat factory meat you eat estrogen.

    Take your pick.
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    I refuse to believe red meat or eggs is a risk for giving you cancer or heart disease. I blame it on the other processed crap that 98% of the western world gorges on everyday. Like ice cream and pizza, burgers etc. That's the problem right there.
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  9. #69
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Gringer View Post
    I refuse to believe red meat or eggs is a risk for giving you cancer or heart disease. I blame it on the other processed crap that 98% of the western world gorges on everyday. Like ice cream and pizza, burgers etc. That's the problem right there.
    You might want to actually read the studies and how they're constructed. Refusing to believe science isn't going to get you far.
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    These meat threads seem to always get meaty

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    Originally Posted by andy0w View Post
    If you eat wild meat you risk parasites.
    If you eat factory meat you eat estrogen.

    Take your pick.
    If you clean, process and cook wild game properly; there is a pretty low risk of parasites. Been doing it for 42 years. Yes, I've tossed some game out that had parasites. The most common was cysts in duck meat. It looked like a bunch of grains of white rice in red meat.
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  12. #72
    Protein bar nightcap? desslok's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Gringer View Post
    I refuse to believe red meat or eggs is a risk for giving you cancer or heart disease. I blame it on the other processed crap that 98% of the western world gorges on everyday. Like ice cream and pizza, burgers etc. That's the problem right there.
    Actually, if you learn about what happens during the cooking process, especially when overcooked/charred etc it actually makes perfect sense. Its more about staying educated and making informed decisions of your own.
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  13. #73
    Registered User Cari1030's Avatar
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    I'm a not quite, but almost RN (I'm in my last quarter) and all of the (peer reviewed) sources I've found show that excessive intake of red meat *can* increase risks of various conditions, including certain cancers and heart disease, but I've never seen any sources showing that excessive intake of chicken or non-mercury contaminated fish increases risks. Eating red meat once a week is fine, eating chicken or fish daily is fine. Only other risks I can think of would be constipation and exacerbation of kidney issues IF you already had them.

    But then the other side of the coin would be: is it really more dangerous to eat tons of meat daily and trim/muscular or to be obese? My thought would be that the obesity is a higher risk, but I don't actually know.
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  14. #74
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    Inasmuch as this question pertains to bodybuilding/lifting, I'm curious (and I legitimately don't know) how many people in the sport have actually managed to get massive and competitively strong without regular consumption of animal protein.
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  15. #75
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    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    Inasmuch as this question pertains to bodybuilding/lifting, I'm curious (and I legitimately don't know) how many people in the sport have actually managed to get massive and competitively strong without regular consumption of animal protein.
    The trouble is that most people 'go vegan' once they're adults, and a very small % of adults strive to get jacked and massive...

    So when people start training, if they do ultimately do the vegan thing it's usually after already lifting WITH some animal products for a while.

    There are definitely cases where people change over to plant-based and stay strong/big or get stronger/bigger, but in terms of a lifetime of training with zero animal protein, that's going to be extremely rare.
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  16. #76
    Protein bar nightcap? desslok's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    Inasmuch as this question pertains to bodybuilding/lifting, I'm curious (and I legitimately don't know) how many people in the sport have actually managed to get massive and competitively strong without regular consumption of animal protein.
    Well, most that strive to get “massive and competitively strong” are also taking substances that we can’t discuss here. In those cases, effects of meat may be the least of their concerns. For the average gym goer? Totally different question...
    Also “animal protein” is completely different than “meat” which both are different than “red meat”.
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    I just finished a diet class recently and pretty much they say be selective with your meat. Certain meats are better eaten in moderation.
    - Red meat like 2 to 3 times a week. The reason why is because red meat is high in saturated fats which is okay in moderation, but in high amounts is not good.
    - Fish around 2 to 3 times a week. Certain types of fish should be limited because they are high in mercury.
    - You're better off with poultry.
    - Too much protein is a thing, you should get around 80g for the average person, 1g per lb of bodyweight if you're an athlete (which if you're here you probably count). Excess will make you gain weight or you'll piss it out.

    My source is the McGraw Hill Nutrition textbook.
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    Originally Posted by BigPapi215 View Post
    Excess will make you gain weight or you'll piss it out.

    My source is the McGraw Hill Nutrition textbook.
    It would be more correct to say consuming calories above your TDEE will make you gain weight - eating meat or protein in itself will not cause weight gain.
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    How about raw meat? I cut up a big steak into half a dozen 2 ounce pieces and marinated them in a bag of bloody mary mix for a day. Some friends were over so I put the little steaks on a plate and put it in front of them. They ate all the meat with no complaints, and nobody got sick.
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    Bear in mind guys from the Golden Era of Bodybuilding made red meat a nutritional staple. They'd gorge on steaks and lean cuts of beef to muscle up. Normally, I'd take out the fatty portions to cut back on the saturated fat and all.

    All of a sudden, I remember that hardcore vegan Netflix documentary "What the Health?" Can't imagine going the vegan route. I still include red meat as one of my protein sources.
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    I dont know about you but raising my risk of colon cancer from about 5% to about 6% seems like a risk I'm willing to take for some good red meat. 15-25% increases seems scary until you realize the baseline is only 5%. Med Rare plz.
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    Originally Posted by XinXom View Post
    I dont know about you but raising my risk of colon cancer from about 5% to about 6% seems like a risk I'm willing to take for some good red meat. 15-25% increases seems scary until you realize the baseline is only 5%. Med Rare plz.
    There are other possible issues as well with things like heme iron and other compounds that build up when you cook then.

    Personally I just find red meat gross now, thats my reasoning ;o)
    Last edited by AdamWW; 07-07-2020 at 12:49 PM.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    There are other possible issues as well with things like heme iron and other compounds that build up when you cook then.

    Personally I just find red meat gross now, thats my reasoning ;o)
    I just thought it was important to toss that stat out there for transparency's sake. I feel you though, I don't care how many healthy fats salmon and avocado have I just hate how they taste so that's a no I'll get my less healthy fats from red meat and dairy because I love how they taste.
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    Originally Posted by XinXom View Post
    I just thought it was important to toss that stat out there for transparency's sake. I feel you though, I don't care how many healthy fats salmon and avocado have I just hate how they taste so that's a no I'll get my less healthy fats from red meat and dairy because I love how they taste.

    See I freakin LOVE avocado and salmon


    But to your comment there... I just hope you're getting healthy fats somehow cuz the fats in dairy and red meat aren't really health-promoting at all...
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    See I freakin LOVE avocado and salmon


    But to your comment there... I just hope you're getting healthy fats somehow cuz the fats in dairy and red meat aren't really health-promoting at all...
    I'm pretty sure I am not getting the recommended amount but I'm not really that concerned about it. A year and a half ago I was 100 pounds heavier smoked a pack a week drank 2 bottle of hard liquor a week never worked out and my diet was bdubs mcdoanlds the gas station candy bars ice cream pizza and suger pop I ate 0 fruits or veggies. I have not smoked in months and I'm stronger than I have ever been in my life at 31 which I never thought would happen. So I'm not sure red meat eggs cheese milk and yogurt is the best solid base for healthy fats but I think I'll be ok without force feeding myself avocados or salmon XD.
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    Originally Posted by XinXom View Post
    I'm pretty sure I am not getting the recommended amount but I'm not really that concerned about it. A year and a half ago I was 100 pounds heavier smoked a pack a week drank 2 bottle of hard liquor a week never worked out and my diet was bdubs mcdoanlds the gas station candy bars ice cream pizza and suger pop I ate 0 fruits or veggies. I have not smoked in months and I'm stronger than I have ever been in my life at 31 which I never thought would happen. So I'm not sure red meat eggs cheese milk and yogurt is the best solid base for healthy fats but I think I'll be ok without force feeding myself avocados or salmon XD.

    There are plenty of other options...

    flax/chia/hemp seeds
    almonds, walnuts, guacamole...

    There's more to health than being strong... and even if you don't love everything you eat, it's worth it in the long run..

    Plus if you don't get bloodwork done, you'll never know if you're actually missing something you should get more of.
    The power of carbs compels me!
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    There are plenty of other options...

    flax/chia/hemp seeds
    almonds, walnuts, guacamole...

    There's more to health than being strong... and even if you don't love everything you eat, it's worth it in the long run..

    Plus if you don't get bloodwork done, you'll never know if you're actually missing something you should get more of.
    Yes I'm aware, granted I like none of the things you listed. I don't go out of my way too look for healthy fats because in the end I know myself and I will not eat anything I don't like for any sustained period of time. If there is one thing I have learned from my health journey is that it really is a lifestyle change so if I cant see it fitting my lifestyle its a pass. To be clear I was not saying I think red meat makes me stronger or that I don't need them because I am strong but rather to underscore that I currently have the healthiest habits I have ever had in my life, I think I will be ok without force feeding. As someone who has been on a cut for over a year has lost over 100 and still wants to lose another 100 and will be for at for more than another year I'm not putting things in my mouth that I don't like the taste of even if it gave me a 10 foot long dong.
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    Originally Posted by XinXom View Post
    Yes I'm aware, granted I like none of the things you listed. I don't go out of my way too look for healthy fats because in the end I know myself and I will not eat anything I don't like for any sustained period of time. If there is one thing I have learned from my health journey is that it really is a lifestyle change so if I cant see it fitting my lifestyle its a pass. To be clear I was not saying I think red meat makes me stronger or that I don't need them because I am strong but rather to underscore that I currently have the healthiest habits I have ever had in my life, I think I will be ok without force feeding. As someone who has been on a cut for over a year has lost over 100 and still wants to lose another 100 and will be for at for more than another year I'm not putting things in my mouth that I don't like the taste of even if it gave me a 10 foot long dong.
    I mean, it's not hard to just swallow an omega pill or eat a single tablespoon of flax seeds a day...

    not talking about changing your life, i'm just talking about a single food item or supplement here and there.
    The power of carbs compels me!
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