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  1. #1
    Registered User fattofame3's Avatar
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    Thumbs up All Upper Lower Spilts are Basically 3 Day Spilts and prertty much the same.

    Hey Guys,

    I saved all the novice and intermediate programs and found that they are all identical in terms of the exercises they ask you to do. e.g. VBB and Fierce 5 upper lower are very similar and their 3 day full body counterparts are basically what the Upper/Lower are, so In saying that it does not make much difference in which one I do? Another thing is for some reason I am starting to believe that maybe Upper/lower will not allow me to make most gains compared to a bro split? I know this is not true but just my current thinking. I am doubting myself even though I know calories in vs calories out. Its just that I am 78kgs now or 171.6lbs and am lean bulking to 90kgs or 198lbs as I cut last year and am basically where I am where I was last year before I cut due to this whole epidemic and want to make the most optimal gains as it is hard for me mentally as I used to very fat and back to square one within a year so trying to bulk then cut to muscle. Not sure if what I wrote made sense but yeah cheers.
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  2. #2
    Time is Muscle ECGordyn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fattofame3 View Post
    Hey Guys,

    I saved all the novice and intermediate programs and found that they are all identical in terms of the exercises they ask you to do. e.g. VBB and Fierce 5 upper lower are very similar and their 3 day full body counterparts are basically what the Upper/Lower are, so In saying that it does not make much difference in which one I do?
    Right, it doesn't make much difference which *good* program you do. Most novice programs are basically the same because the fundamentals and basics of training are the same for everybody in the beginning.

    Originally Posted by fattofame3 View Post
    Another thing is for some reason I am starting to believe that maybe Upper/lower will not allow me to make most gains compared to a bro split? I know this is not true but just my current thinking.
    An UL or a 3 day Fullbody will be better because you train each muscle group with more frequency during the week. Benching 3 times a week is better than benching 1 time a week. Plus, if you get used to high volume early in your training career, then you might have problems later in your training because at that point you can't add volume as effectively as if you start with lower volume and then add volume later.

    Originally Posted by fattofame3 View Post
    I am doubting myself even though I know calories in vs calories out.
    Don't doubt yourself, just train intelligently. Run a good program, track all your calories, sleep 7 hours minimum, and keep going.

    Originally Posted by fattofame3 View Post
    Its just that I am 78kgs now or 171.6lbs and am lean bulking to 90kgs or 198lbs as I cut last year and am basically where I am where I was last year before I cut due to this whole epidemic and want to make the most optimal gains as it is hard for me mentally as I used to very fat and back to square one within a year so trying to bulk then cut to muscle. Not sure if what I wrote made sense but yeah cheers.
    Muscle memory will quickly get you back to where you were. Training will improve your body composition, so you'll look and feel better even if your body fat % is high. Don't let it get high, but don't be scared to eat a few hundred calories of quality food above maintenance in order to grow muscle.
    Currently running Candito-Nuckols hybrid:
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175647011&p=1609096311#post1609096311
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  3. #3
    Registered User RapidFail's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fattofame3 View Post
    Hey Guys,

    I saved all the novice and intermediate programs and found that they are all identical in terms of the exercises they ask you to do. e.g. VBB and Fierce 5 upper lower are very similar and their 3 day full body counterparts are basically what the Upper/Lower are, so In saying that it does not make much difference in which one I do? Another thing is for some reason I am starting to believe that maybe Upper/lower will not allow me to make most gains compared to a bro split? I know this is not true but just my current thinking. I am doubting myself even though I know calories in vs calories out. Its just that I am 78kgs now or 171.6lbs and am lean bulking to 90kgs or 198lbs as I cut last year and am basically where I am where I was last year before I cut due to this whole epidemic and want to make the most optimal gains as it is hard for me mentally as I used to very fat and back to square one within a year so trying to bulk then cut to muscle. Not sure if what I wrote made sense but yeah cheers.
    While I disagree they are all the same, there are certainly a lot of similarities between good programs.

    The biggest difference between F5 and VBB to me is that VBB has quite a bit more volume and a different progression system. Also the U/L programs have a lot more volume than the beginner programs and a 2x per week frequency (per muscle group) vs 3x per week for the beginner programs.

    Not sure where your idea about the bro split comes from, but the science is clear that 2-3x per week frequency is superior to 1x per week. That said, total volume and progressive overload are more important than frequency.

    In saying that the workout you choose will make little difference to your results - if we're talking about proven programs, I agree! Far more important is how well you adhere to the program and your diet.

    Finally, I hope you're planning on taking at least 12 months to gain that weight!
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  4. #4
    Registered User RapidFail's Avatar
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    Nothing new, but it's worth remembering that while you do have some lifting experience, your lifts were still firmly in the novice category (not a dis, so are mine!) and after taking months off lifting, you will probably have lost some strength. You should be able to make gains from fairly low volume at this point, so I think it makes sense to pick a program:

    1. With low to moderate volume

    2. That you enjoy and can sustain for a long period of time.
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  5. #5
    Registered User fattofame3's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ECGordyn View Post
    Right, it doesn't make much difference which *good* program you do. Most novice programs are basically the same because the fundamentals and basics of training are the same for everybody in the beginning.



    An UL or a 3 day Fullbody will be better because you train each muscle group with more frequency during the week. Benching 3 times a week is better than benching 1 time a week. Plus, if you get used to high volume early in your training career, then you might have problems later in your training because at that point you can't add volume as effectively as if you start with lower volume and then add volume later.



    Don't doubt yourself, just train intelligently. Run a good program, track all your calories, sleep 7 hours minimum, and keep going.



    Muscle memory will quickly get you back to where you were. Training will improve your body composition, so you'll look and feel better even if your body fat % is high. Don't let it get high, but don't be scared to eat a few hundred calories of quality food above maintenance in order to grow muscle.
    Yeah makes sense, cheers.
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  6. #6
    Registered User fattofame3's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RapidFail View Post
    While I disagree they are all the same, there are certainly a lot of similarities between good programs.

    The biggest difference between F5 and VBB to me is that VBB has quite a bit more volume and a different progression system. Also the U/L programs have a lot more volume than the beginner programs and a 2x per week frequency (per muscle group) vs 3x per week for the beginner programs.

    Not sure where your idea about the bro split comes from, but the science is clear that 2-3x per week frequency is superior to 1x per week. That said, total volume and progressive overload are more important than frequency.

    In saying that the workout you choose will make little difference to your results - if we're talking about proven programs, I agree! Far more important is how well you adhere to the program and your diet.

    Finally, I hope you're planning on taking at least 12 months to gain that weight!
    Not stating they are 100% identical but very simliar like you have suggested.

    I agree.

    I know, just doubting or random thought making me questionin things I know are right.

    True.

    Aiming at 8 months then cutting lol
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  7. #7
    Registered User fattofame3's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RapidFail View Post
    Nothing new, but it's worth remembering that while you do have some lifting experience, your lifts were still firmly in the novice category (not a dis, so are mine!) and after taking months off lifting, you will probably have lost some strength. You should be able to make gains from fairly low volume at this point, so I think it makes sense to pick a program:

    1. With low to moderate volume

    2. That you enjoy and can sustain for a long period of time.
    Aww yeah I know that is facts hahah no dis there at all, It is, what it is you know. Looking to improve them though. From my first week back I can say all my lifts are not that bad in terms of strength where I left off but my pull up/chin up game is gone. I could do atleast 3 ina row now I can barely do 1 lol.

    I am thinking of doing Firece 5 U/L. I did ripped boyd U?L for 1 week to test it out and its alright hahah. but there is more structure to something like fierce 5 imo or like rep increase x1 for 1 week then next week add weight etc just seems more structured
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  8. #8
    Registered User RapidFail's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fattofame3 View Post
    Not stating they are 100% identical but very simliar like you have suggested.

    I agree.

    I know, just doubting or random thought making me questionin things I know are right.

    True.

    Aiming at 8 months then cutting lol
    I'd probably set your sights a little lower for weight gain then - aim for 2lb per month to keep fat gains to a minimum.
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  9. #9
    Registered User RapidFail's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fattofame3 View Post
    Aww yeah I know that is facts hahah no dis there at all, It is, what it is you know. Looking to improve them though. From my first week back I can say all my lifts are not that bad in terms of strength where I left off but my pull up/chin up game is gone. I could do atleast 3 ina row now I can barely do 1 lol.

    I am thinking of doing Firece 5 U/L. I did ripped boyd U?L for 1 week to test it out and its alright hahah. but there is more structure to something like fierce 5 imo or like rep increase x1 for 1 week then next week add weight etc just seems more structured
    The Ripped Body program let you choose a few of your lifts, which is arguably less suitable for beginner lifters, but it has a prescribed progression system, just like Fierce 5. Both great programs, you'll do well on either.
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  10. #10
    Registered User fattofame3's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RapidFail View Post
    The Ripped Body program let you choose a few of your lifts, which is arguably less suitable for beginner lifters, but it has a prescribed progression system, just like Fierce 5. Both great programs, you'll do well on either.
    Cheers lad
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