Here is one for the Anti Maskers

[eomrat]

About half the people that are minimizing the pandemic. The other half are saying it doesn't matter whether the deaths are old or young, they're still inconsequential as long as it's not themselves.

You have crappy friends.

[Plateauplower]

That's interesting what you said about the Spanish flu. I was wondering why it was killing young people. Young guys coming back from the horrors of ww1 straight to the Spanish flu, and if they survived that, starving in Great Depression and if somehow managing to survive that just to be sent to die somewhere in Siberia. No time to complain about mask use with all that going on...but yeah that makes sense why the flu took younger population.

It is believed that the troops actually brought it here. It was running rampant at some of the joint US/British military bases prior to the soldiers returning home. People were dropping like flies in military hospitals well before it was in the US mainland.

[Mark1T]

So, I went to the grocery store this morning early, to get it out of the way. Something has happened and it is nationwide, that has never happened before unless it happened during The Depression. The stores do not have enough coins, so they are only using coins for the self-check-out service. In the regular lines, the cashiers only have bills and they are rounding it up. Example: if your grocery bill comes to $9.50 and you hand the cashier a $10 bill, the difference is applied as a credit for future purchases.

The Federal Reserve, as a result of COVID, cannot produce enough coins to meet normal demand.

Is that wild or what?

[Plateauplower]

I'm not disagreeing with the statistics. I'm pointing out that "let Darwin sort it out" is not really an acceptable response.

Well, that is how life works. I would be willing to bet people who are not in a high risk group and have significant complications or death from this virus have genetic factors that influence that, similarly genetics influence non-communicable disease such as cancer, autoimmune disorders, Downs syndrome etc. Don't misinterpret emotion for science. The fact is, there is no real effective solution other than a complete and total lockdown. Nobody leaves there house, at all, for a month or so. That would greatly reduce but probably still not eliminate the virus. However, as you may or may not be aware, there are essential people that keep the lights on, water coming out of your faucets, your sewer from backing up, food supply etc etc. So that is not really a plausible solution. Your other choice, is to take personal measures for your own health. Everyone running around in masks is not going to stop this virus, it would slow it, but it would continue to flare up as people become infected and then their families and others in their inner circles. I have accepted the fact that there is a pandemic, people will die others will be negatively effected, so I take some precautions and live my life.

[Plateauplower]

So, I went to the grocery store this morning early, to get it out of the way. Something has happened and it is nationwide, that has never happened before unless it happened during The Depression. The stores do not have enough coins, so they are only using coins for the self-check-out service. In the regular lines, the cashiers only have bills and they are rounding it up. Example: if your grocery bill comes to $9.50 and you hand the cashier a $10 bill, the difference is applied as a credit for future purchases.

The Federal Reserve, as a result of COVID, cannot produce enough coins to meet normal demand.

Is that wild or what?

Wow that's crazy! I never use cash so I have not experienced that, but I heard that it was happening as a result of the coin machines, banks etc not getting coins back. Basically people are sitting on a lot of coinage that is not making its way back into the currency supply.

[mtpockets]

So, I went to the grocery store this morning early, to get it out of the way. Something has happened and it is nationwide, that has never happened before unless it happened during The Depression. The stores do not have enough coins, so they are only using coins for the self-check-out service. In the regular lines, the cashiers only have bills and they are rounding it up. Example: if your grocery bill comes to $9.50 and you hand the cashier a $10 bill, the difference is applied as a credit for future purchases.

The Federal Reserve, as a result of COVID, cannot produce enough coins to meet normal demand.

Is that wild or what?

I never noticed, I only use self checkout and always tap. I have the same bills in my money clip that I had pre covid.

It doesn't make cents

[Mark1T]

Wow that's crazy! I never use cash so I have not experienced that, but I heard that it was happening as a result of the coin machines, banks etc not getting coins back. Basically people are sitting on a lot of coinage that is not making its way back into the currency supply.

True, people sit on coins and that does not help.

I never use cash, either. I'm friends with one of the managers and he told me. I was shocked. Things we take for granted.

[lotusdeva]

Sorry to hear what your sisters family is going through, have a family in my area, young couple with a 8 year old, mom was in the hospital and on a ventilator since mid march, she just released and is a total mess, the dad went in after her and is still in ICU, the little girl is out now but has compromised lungs, in a wheel chair and has an ulcer on her eye, she is a mess too. This after a couple of months in the hospital. They were a young fit family.

It's too easy for people to be judgmental from the comfy of their couch and call people drama queens. Hopefully this never happens, but I don't think most will truly understand the seriousness of this virus until it hits close to home. Like I said, I hope this doesn't happen.

Up to 56 hospitals in Florida reported zero ICU beds available
Another 35 Florida hospitals reported that ICU capacity was at 10% or less

I guess the drama queens are busy in Florida

I am so sorry, can’t imagine how the family feels My mom lives in Naples FL, says people don’t wear masks to the store, most people don’t I ship things to her sometime, but it’s not realistic, she has to go out. I am scared for her. My mom is super tough, she already told me to not put her on ventilator, said “turn me off and let me be with Jesus”. Ok, mom, no .

[Mark1T]

I am so sorry, can’t imagine how the family feels My mom lives in Naples FL, says people don’t wear masks to the store, most people don’t I ship things to her sometime, but it’s not realistic, she has to go out. I am scared for her. My mom is super tough, she already told me to not put her on ventilator, said “turn me off and let me be with Jesus”. Ok, mom, no .

Heartbreaking, Ms. Deva. <3

[Mark1T]

I never noticed, I only use self checkout and always tap. I have the same bills in my money clip that I had pre covid.

It doesn't make cents

I asked my friend when this started and he said, this morning. Those circa 1855 bills need to stay in your ET pockets

[Jtbny]

Well, that is how life works. I would be willing to bet people who are not in a high risk group and have significant complications or death from this virus have genetic factors that influence that, similarly genetics influence non-communicable disease such as cancer, autoimmune disorders, Downs syndrome etc. Don't misinterpret emotion for science. The fact is, there is no real effective solution other than a complete and total lockdown. Nobody leaves there house, at all, for a month or so. That would greatly reduce but probably still not eliminate the virus. However, as you may or may not be aware, there are essential people that keep the lights on, water coming out of your faucets, your sewer from backing up, food supply etc etc. So that is not really a plausible solution. Your other choice, is to take personal measures for your own health. Everyone running around in masks is not going to stop this virus, it would slow it, but it would continue to flare up as people become infected and then their families and others in their inner circles. I have accepted the fact that there is a pandemic, people will die others will be negatively effected, so I take some precautions and live my life.

Not really. We do all sorts of things to mitigate dangers. I think that's Els point about masks - mitigation, not complete elimination.

[Jtbny]

So, I went to the grocery store this morning early, to get it out of the way. Something has happened and it is nationwide, that has never happened before unless it happened during The Depression. The stores do not have enough coins, so they are only using coins for the self-check-out service. In the regular lines, the cashiers only have bills and they are rounding it up. Example: if your grocery bill comes to $9.50 and you hand the cashier a $10 bill, the difference is applied as a credit for future purchases.

The Federal Reserve, as a result of COVID, cannot produce enough coins to meet normal demand.

Is that wild or what?

Ya I read about this last week. They are producing more coins now as well as printing money for the markets

[x-trainer ben]

Bill Nye the science guy does a mask demonstration on tik tok. 2 min video

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...ace-masks.html

[Mark1T]

Ya I read about this last week. They are producing more coins now as well as printing money for the markets

I don't know how I missed the notice.

Buy copper, zinc, and nickel

[Plateauplower]

Not really. We do all sorts of things to mitigate dangers. I think that's Els point about masks - mitigation, not complete elimination.

I mitigate dangers for living, and have for more than two decades. Still, when it comes to things that are not a physical hazard, and include a genetic component we currently have to play the hand we are dealt. Mitigating the dangers of a communicable disease requires some personal accountability because most people are not trained in the things that need to be done to protect others (or even themselves). Let me give you an example of something that happened today. I was doing drive through health screenings and had someone respond that they had just developed a cough after I had my arm in the car to take their temp with a non-contact infrared thermometer. After instructing the person to leave the site that we would be in contact, I sanitized the thermometer and my arm before resuming the line of cars. This is a situation that without someone knowledgeable about how communicable disease transmission works, there would be the potential to have a mitigation method be the reason for a mass exposure event. Most people do not wear masks in their cars, so I would have been sticking my potentially contaminated arm into the other people's cars, directly in their breathing zone...I do see people who take personal responsibility for their own health and prevention. They pull up wearing an actual air purifying respirator, and goggles (usually gloves too for whatever reason). They would be unlikely to contract the virus even in a COVID wing of a hospital let alone at work with strict social distancing.

As far as what happens after infection, aside from available medical care (preventing hospitals form being overrun was and should be the intent of mitigation) it is Darwinism.

[supramax]

Not really. We do all sorts of things to mitigate dangers. I think that's Els point about masks - mitigation, not complete elimination.

https://bgr.com/2020/07/09/coronavir...ansmission-65/

[Plateauplower]

https://bgr.com/2020/07/09/coronavir...ansmission-65/

No methods or any info on their criteria or how they arrived at their mask effectiveness determination (not dismissing it as it looks about what I would expect based on pre-covid respiratory disease studies I've seen). Their info on ventilation is not exactly correct, ventilation depends on the situation, you essentially don't want people "downwind" from other people indoors. Down draft or updraft ventilation using strobic fans would be better than arbitrarily opening windows. In general though, more fresh air supply is better, at the expense of building HVAC efficiency.

[Jtbny]

I mitigate dangers for living, and have for more than two decades. Still, when it comes to things that are not a physical hazard, and include a genetic component we currently have to play the hand we are dealt. Mitigating the dangers of a communicable disease requires some personal accountability because most people are not trained in the things that need to be done to protect others (or even themselves). Let me give you an example of something that happened today. I was doing drive through health screenings and had someone respond that they had just developed a cough after I had my arm in the car to take their temp with a non-contact infrared thermometer. After instructing the person to leave the site that we would be in contact, I sanitized the thermometer and my arm before resuming the line of cars. This is a situation that without someone knowledgeable about how communicable disease transmission works, there would be the potential to have a mitigation method be the reason for a mass exposure event. Most people do not wear masks in their cars, so I would have been sticking my potentially contaminated arm into the other people's cars, directly in their breathing zone...I do see people who take personal responsibility for their own health and prevention. They pull up wearing an actual air purifying respirator, and goggles (usually gloves too for whatever reason). They would be unlikely to contract the virus even in a COVID wing of a hospital let alone at work with strict social distancing.

As far as what happens after infection, aside from available medical care (preventing hospitals form being overrun was and should be the intent of mitigation) it is Darwinism.

That wasn't my point though. Darwinsim really doesn't apply anymore if we are talking "natural selection" in this mask argument. Modern medicine alone eliminates that theory as diseases/infections can now be managed if not eliminated. So nature isnt selecting, society or better put, science has mitigated that. I think some (not you here) use that theory to justify not wearing a mask but ignore all the other ways society has altered natural selection.

[lotusdeva]

Interesting article (referencing Covid Tracking project) - why deaths are flattening while cases are rising. One of the reasons - death lag cases - official reporting of COVID death can lag COVID exposure by a month. This would suggest that surge of COVID deaths is coming and its already happening in Texas, Florida and Arizona.

"Since June 7, the seven-day average of deaths in those hot-spot states has increased 69 percent, according to the COVID Tracking Project."



There is also expanded testing, of course, but "The simplistic version, which we often hear from the president, is that cases are surging only because the number of tests is rising. That’s just wrong. Since the beginning of June, the share of COVID-19 tests that have come back positive has increased from 4.5 percent to 8 percent. Hospitalizations are skyrocketing across the South and West. Those are clear signs of an underlying outbreak"


And typical COVID patients are getting younger. In Florida, the median age of new COVID-19 cases fell from 65 in March to 35 in June. In its latest daily report, the Florida Department of Health says the median age is still in the high 30s.* In Arizona, Texas, and California, young adults getting sick have been driving the surge.

Good news - patients in hospitals are dying less (based on hospitalization and death data mentioned in this article). It makes sense, as in the beginning of this pandemic doctors did not know how to treat the patients.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...ryZ37oGO0oY6Gs

[Plateauplower]

That wasn't my point though. Darwinsim really doesn't apply anymore if we are talking "natural selection" in this mask argument. Modern medicine alone eliminates that theory as diseases/infections can now be managed if not eliminated. So nature isnt selecting, society or better put, science has mitigated that. I think some (not you here) use that theory to justify not wearing a mask but ignore all the other ways society has altered natural selection.

Yeah I agree with that statement. Modern medicine does help a lot, but not with everything. Many viral diseases for example, the best that modern medicine can do is supportive therapy and basically try to help keep the person alive long enough for their own body to beat the disease. Its not a guarantee and genetics plays a huge role in many things such as heart disease, where modern medicine is amazing, unless someone has a massive heart attack and are DOA, an aneurism etc. If modern medicine were to the point where it was a guarantee, we wouldn't have any COVID deaths.

Moderne medicine isn't without its own risks too, with more than 250,000 deaths per year in the US resulting directly from medical errors, its the third leading cause of death...
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news...eath_in_the_us

[Jtbny]

Yeah I agree with that statement. Modern medicine does help a lot, but not with everything. Many viral diseases for example, the best that modern medicine can do is supportive therapy and basically try to help keep the person alive long enough for their own body to beat the disease. Its not a guarantee and genetics plays a huge role in many things such as heart disease, where modern medicine is amazing, unless someone has a massive heart attack and are DOA, an aneurism etc. If modern medicine were to the point where it was a guarantee, we wouldn't have any COVID deaths.

Moderne medicine isn't without its own risks too, with more than 250,000 deaths per year in the US resulting directly from medical errors, its the third leading cause of death...
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news...eath_in_the_us

Speaking of ...whats your thought on this rushed vaccine?

[OldFartTom]

Speaking of ...whats your thought on this rushed vaccine?

They've been working on the vaccine for a couple of years and it's not finished yet (hope to have 300 million doses by Christmas if all goes well), where do we draw the line between fast and rushed?
Its had positive results in a trial involving 6 monkeys (if only that had been 12, would have been so fitting) so it might just work...

Originally developed for MERS, by editing viral rna fragments into a chimp adenovirus, going to human trials in Saudi Arabia. Then after Feb this year repurposed for cov-2 rna. So they didn't start from scratch, actually it's been going for some time already. It must be promising because the developers (and some associated suppliers) are under some of the heaviest sustained APT cyberespionage from all directions ever seen (says the grapevine)

[Jtbny]

They've been working on the vaccine for a couple of years and it's not finished yet (hope to have 300 million doses by Christmas if all goes well), where do we draw the line between fast and rushed?
Its had positive results in a trial involving 6 monkeys (if only that had been 12, would have been so fitting) so it might just work...

Originally developed for MERS, by editing viral rna fragments into a chimp adenovirus, going to human trials in Saudi Arabia. Then after Feb this year repurposed for cov-2 rna. So they didn't start from scratch, actually it's been going for some time already. It must be promising because the developers (and some associated suppliers) are under some of the heaviest sustained APT cyberespionage from all directions ever seen (says the grapevine)

I watched the Netflix doc on this. I do think we see something promising sooner than later w/the worlds resources on it. I don't know much about how they handle mutations though. For myself I'll likely do the wait and see what happens before trying it.

[Plateauplower]

Speaking of ...whats your thought on this rushed vaccine?

It’s concerning, but there is no point in making one using the more traditional longer term approach. The disease would likely be over, or very small scale if they took 3-5 years. I’m not as concerned with fast-tracking it as I am with the fact that they are already producing several versions before trials. That just seems like a conflict of interest since they are investing big money in production before evaluating it. You know how statistics work, so you are aware of little “tricks” that could be used to perhaps make the vaccine appear more effective, or more safe which would be to the pharmaceutical companies best interest financially rather than saying “nope scrap that one that we have already made 100 million units of, let’s start over“. I’m not in the conspiracy camp that Bill Gates is trying to microchip everyone, but I’m more concerned with pharma companies looking at their bottom line and perhaps putting something out that could have been done better. That’s even if they can make one that is safe and effective. No luck yet in all the years they have tried to make one for other coronaviruses, but that research didn’t really have the funding and profit potential that there is now, since with the exception of SARS etc, most coronaviruses just give people a respiratory cold. Same thing with Ebola, big pharmaceutical companies aren’t going to dump huge sums of money into something that third world countries cant afford, there’s no profit to be made and they are public companies with obligations for profit. There is a helluva a lot of money to be made on the Rona vax though. Big time.

Also edit to add. There will be people who will die from the vaccine that would not have died from the Rona / Darwinism. Some people due to genetic anomalies etc, will have fatal outcomes even if it is “safe” for the masses.

Myself or my family won’t be first in line to get it if it is produced (no anti-vaxer).

[induced_drag]

Interesting article (referencing Covid Tracking project) - why deaths are flattening while cases are rising. One of the reasons - death lag cases - official reporting of COVID death can lag COVID exposure by a month. This would suggest that surge of COVID deaths is coming and its already happening in Texas, Florida and Arizona.

]

To accurately compare you need to compare graphs from the same states (not the entire us in one, and deaths in another). Since the south took longer to start getting more cases.

I made this example with NC another state who has seen explosive growth in cases.

Looking at the charts our death rate peaked 4 months ago. Yet since those 4 months our infection rate has gone up 10x. Yet our death rates have seen a steady down trend. This is why it is hard to buy the narratives being pushed. These charts dont fit the narrative they are pushing.

[ElrondHubbard]

Not really. We do all sorts of things to mitigate dangers. I think that's Els point about masks - mitigation, not complete elimination.

Exactly. Even the "what-aboutist" examples used here: mosquitos killing millions, etc., aren't really relevant to the current events. For one thing, those statistic are not simply steady state conditions that we simply shrug our shoulders and put up with. Mosquito-borne parasitic diseases are a curse that we have been fighting globally for many years, and have actually made great progress on. The problem is now more of an economic one than a medical one -- lots of very poor people in the humid tropics can't afford mosquito netting, or live in houses that are so ramshackle there's no way to seal mosquitoes out. In the developed world, at least, the numbers of cases have gone way down over the years, because we didn't simply shrug out collective shoulders and say, "oh, well." The coastal regions of the United States used to be rife with malaria, now it's pretty rare. It didn't just go away by itself.

And if we're not minimizing this pandemic, why are we even bringing up these other examples, if we're not trying to justify a do-nothing, or defeatist approach with it?

[ElrondHubbard]

As far as what happens after infection, aside from available medical care (preventing hospitals form being overrun was and should be the intent of mitigation) it is Darwinism.

Darwinism is the default starting point. The entire purpose of medical research and treatment is to not have to rely on natural selection to work it out. If we lived strictly by Darwinian rules, most of us would already be long since dead.

[Plateauplower]

Darwinism is the default starting point. The entire purpose of medical research and treatment is to not have to rely on natural selection to work it out. If we lived strictly by Darwinian rules, most of us would already be long since dead.

Well, you would likely already be dead and unable to call everyone racists and proclaim your opinions are superior. How do you explain medical errors being the third most prevalent cause of death? Lol at mosquito netting as a strategy for vector borne disease. You have zero idea what you are talking about...If those poor people only had mosquito netting they would live? They wouldn’t need to go out to get water, food, or poop?

Seriously, get a grip on reality because you are delusional. The young children of this country should not have their future destroyed because of the old selfish pricks. Right now we have spent 60 million for every death, could probably be double that since half the deaths were people that died with and not from COVID.

I just don’t think that a couple extra years for some people is worth the destruction of our economy and country. I’m sure you don’t see it that way, and that’s fine. But that is the way that it’s going to be.

[Corbi]

Well, you would likely already be dead and unable to call everyone racists and proclaim your opinions are superior. How do you explain medical errors being the third most prevalent cause of death? Lol at mosquito netting as a strategy for vector borne disease. You have zero idea what you are talking about...If those poor people only had mosquito netting they would live? They wouldn’t need to go out to get water, food, or poop?

Seriously, get a grip on reality because you are delusional. The young children of this country should not have their future destroyed because of the old selfish pricks. Right now we have spent 60 million for every death, could probably be double that since half the deaths were people that died with and not from COVID.

I just don’t think that a couple extra years for some people is worth the destruction of our economy and country. I’m sure you don’t see it that way, and that’s fine. But that is the way that it’s going to be.

Nice dose of reality.

[LWW]

It doesn't make cents

JESUS PHUCKING CHRIST, you phuck tards till got this chit going??

Listen up dummies, this virus has been around for long time, usually the NWO keeps it quiet, but guess what, they wanna stir up chit now, and most of it is political and communist.

You drag me outta vactation to woke yo mutha ass???

Btw, another BIG training day tomorrow, same crew, no masks, no phucking illness. Phuck u phuck the world, phuck Arnie.

To BLM, your cock is bigger than mine, you bang mo chicks than me, you run, jump, do every thang faster than me, what the phuck you complaining bout, gimme some of dat, now shut the phuck up!!!!!

Back on long vaca. Wholes. Get ready to civil war! Sad but true!