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  1. #1
    Registered User NYPat's Avatar
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    Is it time for Three Strikes and You're Out for police?

    Three legitimate, credible reports filed against an officer and he's out of job.

    It was good enough to permanently lock up minorities, should it be good enough to get rid of bad cops?
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    Registered User miscinbro's Avatar
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    As city employees that deal with people who are bound to be less than happy with them I’m sure they get a huge number of bs complaints.

    Having said that, with some kind of independent review I’d be happy with one large strike (think difference between misdemeanor and felony) and them being out. I can get disbarred over one strike like mixing client funds with my own, and all I have the power to do is sue people.
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    Registered User NYPat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by miscinbro View Post
    As city employees that deal with people who are bound to be less than happy with them I’m sure they get a huge number of bs complaints.

    Having said that, with some kind of independent review I’d be happy with one large strike (think difference between misdemeanor and felony) and them being out. I can get disbarred over one strike like mixing client funds with my own, and all I have the power to do is sue people.
    I agree, except I think three credible, legitimate complaints/reports filed would help protect against bad rulings etc.
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    Registered User Vrykul's Avatar
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    Until police are encouraged to report the bad behavior of their colleagues nothing will change

    It's only because they protect each other for no reason other than "brotherhood" that they can keep getting away with it

    I'm a software dev and if one of my colleagues majorly fuks up, I'll call them out on it. Don't see why it should be different for police
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    Registered User miscinbro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sebstan01 View Post
    Police officers = different to the normal/typical employee out there. They enforce the law and are bound to have jaded or bitter folk who file complaints frequently (some legitimate, some petty). Should be done on a case by case basis, looking for patterns, consistency or propensity to engage in a certain type of behaviour (racism, excessive force etc.) before giving them the boot, IMO. Too much scrutiny without cause and you risk opening the flood gates to all sorts of employment-related or unfair dismissal law suits.
    Leaving aside that almost nobody here knows employment law (I don’t), and you probably less than most Americans - you’re argument seems to be that we need to not be too harsh on the people we literally give the power to kill to ... because lawsuits?
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    Cold Hearted SOB Dave22reborn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NYPat View Post
    Three legitimate, credible reports filed against an officer and he's out of job.

    It was good enough to permanently lock up minorities, should it be good enough to get rid of bad cops?
    Oh Patty.....

    People constantly complain about police officers. Hell, women ask for a "White Shirt," because I won't throw their baby daddy out of the house for being disrespectful...
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    Registered User miscinbro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sebstan01 View Post
    Nope. I brought up unfair dismissal claims as a possible but unwanted consequence to this scenario, not as a primary argument. From an employer's perspective, they will go through all potential consequences/fall out, before dismissing an employee. The police aren't different. I have had some experience in employment law so, yes, I do know a lot more than the average Joe on the subject. That being said, a lot of general information on this topic is not particularly difficult to find if you have access to a computer. Additionally, cops have access to support from unions who would definitely have their backs where legal matters are concerned.

    My argument pertains mainly to warranted dismissal. Be harsh where it counts, but do it the right way. Having a basic '3 strike' policy is both limiting but also problematic in this particular industry because of trivial, unwarranted or baseless claims from the public. It happens. Alternatively, doing it on a case by case basis and with reference to the points I've mentioned...patterns, frequency, evidence...that stands a better chance, in my opinion, of delivering just results.
    1) I think we all agree they have to be legit.

    2) if your location is correct, you know some about Australian employment law. I’d never presume to tell you how say IP law (something I know a lot about) works in your country.
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    Credible reports that have been investigated and determined accurate, yes. But first let's implement a 3 strike rule for criminals and mandatory minimum 25 years when a gun is used as an intimidation tool to commit crime. I'm still not sure how George Floyd was on the streets after committing a heinous act in 2007 by breaking into a woman's home and holding her at gun point while robbing her. His victim will likely have ptsd and paranoia for life.

    You liberals hate guns, right? Let's punish gun crimes accordingly.
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    Registered User NYPat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dave22reborn View Post
    Oh Patty.....

    People constantly complain about police officers. Hell, women ask for a "White Shirt," because I won't throw their baby daddy out of the house for being disrespectful...
    Learn to read Dave. Credible. Legitimate.

    Obviously an independent person/panel would need to investigate the complaints to determine what's credible. But it obviously needs to be outside of the police department itself.

    Btw Dave, just curious, how many complaints have been filed against you? Your comments here on this forum indicate you don't think very highly of the community to are supposed to server and protect.
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    Registered User scheal's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NYPat View Post
    Three legitimate, credible reports filed against an officer and he's out of job.

    It was good enough to permanently lock up minorities, should it be good enough to get rid of bad cops?
    Certainly for politicians. We wouldn’t have Schiff, Schumer or Pelosi to worry about
    2nd Amendment

    A well regulated Militia,
    Being necessary to the security of a free State,
    The right of the people to keep and bear Arms,
    Shall not be infringed
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    Registered User NYPat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by scheal View Post
    Certainly for politicians. We wouldn’t have Schiff, Schumer or Pelosi to worry about
    I think you meant to say unindicted co-conspirator individual-1.
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    Registered User miscinbro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SaltyDog920 View Post
    Credible reports that have been investigated and determined accurate, yes. But first let's implement a 3 strike rule for criminals and mandatory minimum 25 years when a gun is used as an intimidation tool to commit crime. I'm still not sure how George Floyd was on the streets after committing a heinous act in 2007 by breaking into a woman's home and holding her at gun point while robbing her. His victim will likely have ptsd and paranoia for life.

    You liberals hate guns, right? Let's punish gun crimes accordingly.
    ....

    “Twenty-eight states have some form of a "three-strikes" law. A person accused under such laws is referred to in a few states (notably Connecticut and Kansas) as a "persistent offender", while Missouri uses the unique term "prior and persistent offender". In most jurisdictions, only crimes at the felony level qualify as serious offenses; however, misdemeanor and/or wobbler offenses can qualify for application of the three-strikes law in California, whose harsh application has been the subject of controversy.[7]”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-strikes_law
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    Registered User scheal's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NYPat View Post



    Btw Dave, just curious, how many complaints have been filed against you? Your comments here on this forum indicate you don't think very highly of the community to are supposed to server and protect.
    He works in Chicago

    They don’t even think much of themselves either
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    Registered User NYPat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by scheal View Post
    He works in Chicago

    They don’t even think much of themselves either
    Just curious, how many times have you been banned for racists comments? More than once right?
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    Registered User miscinbro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NYPat View Post
    Just curious, how many times have you been banned for racists comments? More than once right?
    But his freedom of speech!!! Sorry, wrong thread.
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    Cold Hearted SOB Dave22reborn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NYPat View Post
    Learn to read Dave. Credible. Legitimate.

    Obviously an independent person/panel would need to investigate the complaints to determine what's credible. But it obviously needs to be outside of the police department itself.

    Btw Dave, just curious, how many complaints have been filed against you? Your comments here on this forum indicate you don't think very highly of the community to are supposed to server and protect.
    Not many Patty. I've had Sgts called tons of times though. Once again, its usually because I won't throw baby daddy out of the house for calling her B's and Hoes.
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    Cold Hearted SOB Dave22reborn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NYPat View Post
    Just curious, how many times have you been banned for racists comments? More than once right?
    How many times have you been banned? Hell, you one time asked for a ban after your meltdown, remember when you had. Meltdown? It was hilarious, hopefully you got the help you needed. Did you get the sleep shot at the hospital?
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    Registered User NYPat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dave22reborn View Post
    How many times have you been banned? Hell, you one time asked for a ban after your meltdown, remember when you had. Meltdown? It was hilarious, hopefully you got the help you needed. Did you get the sleep shot at the hospital?
    I've been banned zero times for racist comments.


    Originally Posted by Dave22reborn View Post
    Not many Patty. I've had Sgts called tons of times though. Once again, its usually because I won't throw baby daddy out of the house for calling her B's and Hoes.
    I have my doubts. You seem to like to let your partner do the actual work while you misc on your phone. Then again, you've never posted a spoon pic so you're most likely a fake anyway.
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    Registered User NYPat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by miscinbro View Post
    ....

    “Twenty-eight states have some form of a "three-strikes" law. A person accused under such laws is referred to in a few states (notably Connecticut and Kansas) as a "persistent offender", while Missouri uses the unique term "prior and persistent offender". In most jurisdictions, only crimes at the felony level qualify as serious offenses; however, misdemeanor and/or wobbler offenses can qualify for application of the three-strikes law in California, whose harsh application has been the subject of controversy.[7]”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-strikes_law
    I think it's time we start giving "persistent offender" officers the boot.
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    Cold Hearted SOB Dave22reborn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NYPat View Post
    I think it's time we start giving "persistent offender" officers the boot.
    Tackling a gun offender to the ground, is that a legit complaint?
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    Registered User miscinbro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sebstan01 View Post
    If it's legit...sure. But then again, why 3? Why not fire people who are clearly unfit for the role, on the first go itself?

    Secondly, in regards to legitimacy, the evidence against the officer would have to be of an incredibly high standard in order to warrant dismissal. I don't know the confines of this standard, so I am unable to comment further as to whether it is fair or not.
    Well, I said one.

    I don’t think the evidence would have to be super super high. In the US civil liability is like 51% you did it and criminal is like 99% (in theory). The office would have a “property interest” in their job, but with due process I’d think it would be very doable. Not to mention body cams, other officers (lying in such a proceeding would be grounds for dismissal IMO), bystanders filming (which should almost always be legal) etc., would often make evidence pretty easy I’d think.
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    Blanket policies are generally pretty stupid. See mandatory minimum sentences for examples.

    It's a difficult balancing act because doing everything on a case-by-case basis introduces the risk of error/corruption, but doing everything blanket introduces the risk of severely over-punishing. It's not an easy situation and there's no perfect solution. As long as humans are involved there will be error and corruption. The point of our justice system is rooting that out and holding it accountable if and when it is found. We lack the resources to have every decision everyone makes every day double-checked by an independent council, so sometimes things will slip through the cracks and wrongs will go unpunished. That's just how it works. The system is imperfect but it's the best anyone in the history of civilization has come up with...
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    Originally Posted by Dave22reborn View Post
    Oh Patty.....

    People constantly complain about police officers. Hell, women ask for a "White Shirt," because I won't throw their baby daddy out of the house for being disrespectful...
    If your camera is always on recording, won't that show that you did the right thing?
    Won't frivolous complaints get tossed?
    Last edited by x-trainer ben; 05-30-2020 at 08:23 AM.
    sums it up a thread will start off promising and then turn into name calling..
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    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    If your camera always on recording, won't that show that you did the right thing?
    Won't frivolous complaints get tossed?
    Body cameras and cell phones should make it pretty easy to dismiss the complaints of "baby daddies calling her B's and Hoes"..
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    Fuk off, Lahey! LargePeter's Avatar
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    Well if three strikes was applied to felons, from what I understand George Floyd would be in prison and there'd be no riots
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    So Derek Chauvin had 18 complaints filed against him, two resulted in discipline. The other officers also had multiple complaints and even had a lawsuit filed against one.

    How many strikes do you think these officers would have had prior to George Floyd's murder?

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/28/us/mi...oyd/index.html
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    Originally Posted by NYPat View Post
    Three legitimate, credible reports filed against an officer and he's out of job.

    It was good enough to permanently lock up minorities, should it be good enough to get rid of bad cops?
    I'm pro-Cop but I think they get off way too easy when it's proven they fuked up, they should be held to a higher level of accountability, not a lower one or one where misdeeds get swept under the rug.

    Again, most cops are not dirty, bad or abusive. Only a small fraction are and those are the only ones I care about.

    Not sure about 3 strikes or OPs plan, just generally saying too often bad departments don't hold their boys accountable or let them off easy when they're busted.
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    Originally Posted by LargePeter View Post
    Well if three strikes was applied to felons, from what I understand George Floyd would be in prison and there'd be no riots
    Or 4-6 cops could have put him in the truck and drove him to process him?

    Funny, he didn't look like a mutant from the X men.
    sums it up a thread will start off promising and then turn into name calling..
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    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    Or 4-6 cops could have put him in the truck and drove him to process him?

    Funny, he didn't look like a mutant from the X men.
    But 3 strikes and he wouldn't have been on the street that day

    Why should we apply this to cops but not ask about repeat felons?
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    One strike only.

    If a cop commits a crime he does the same time as a regular person. None of this 13mths for manslaughter bullchit.
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