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Thread: Next generation Z on the way
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06-08-2020, 04:16 PM #31
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06-08-2020, 04:21 PM #32
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I know guys who drive Miatas on road courses. The car handles and brakes well even if it doesn't have much power. They have fun and huge smiles on their faces hitting the apexes just right, getting heel-and-toe shifting just right while many other cars walk away from them on the straights.
747 Driver
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06-08-2020, 04:25 PM #33
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From a monetary value perspective I don't think it's a bad value at all. Nor will those who end up buying it. It may not have the best bang for the buck in terms of acceleration but so what? My guess is many owners of the Z will not race it or track it, just like many owners of Mustangs/Vettes/911s don't ever race or track them. Most buy a car because they want a particular car and not usually for acceleration or performance for the $. One of the main reasons I've avoided Vettes so far is that I find their interiors suck and are plasticky (haven't sat in a C8 yet) even though some of the later Vettes are arguably better bangs for the buck than my GT3-RS
747 Driver
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06-08-2020, 04:43 PM #34
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06-08-2020, 04:47 PM #35
I understand what you're saying now. Someone will blatantly just say, yeah my SUV is faster than a sports car. I get it. But if you look at the many facets of it, he does have a point. Some people may only have an opportunity to have 1 car, even though that same person might actually like these sports cars but practicality comes first, so a performance SUV is almost all the time the next best thing.
My first point is this - laughing at another car because yours can accelerate quicker is a fools game. There's almost always someone with more money that will have a faster car to destroy your ego. While bang for the acceleration buck is important to some it's not important to many.
Fact is, if you're a car person, performance will always come first. Speed is very important. So of course we compare each other's cars by how quick they are. That's just the nature of the beast.
My second point is this - not everyone cares about going fast in a straight line nor accelerating from a stop light. It's foolish and egotistical to laugh at those with slower cars.
My third point is - his SUV can't do it all. Put it on a road course and watch it flail and cook the brakes when driven by someone who knows how to drive. I've seen it at the tracks at which I teach.
I respect your opinion (even if I disagree with it) that you think the red sports is a failure. My opinion, just as valid, is that some will buy it and think it's a great car. We all have different wants and needs out of a vehicle.
Some will buy the new Z even if there are quicker cars for the $. This is because they're fans of Nissan, or hey like the looks of the car, or a myriad of other reasons.
The only thing that's keeping them relevant in terms of performance is the GTR. And yes that car is amazing. The only japanese car i would buy today.Last edited by 1QWIK7; 06-08-2020 at 04:54 PM.
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06-08-2020, 04:50 PM #36
If the red sports had a better trans, it'd be faster. That's really the only thing stopping it from being good. The trans sucks big time. And it should have been more than 400hp stock.
There's a guy on youtube who converted his Q50 from auto to manual. Even though auto these days are faster than manual, it was the opposite for him. The manual made his car faster, although his shifting phucking sucks.
And not to mention the turbos go early on those cars. So that's another thing to be concerned about when buying those cars used. That's why they're so cheap.
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06-08-2020, 05:04 PM #37
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I'm gonna address only the SUV mods you speak of - yes mods can help. The issue is this - good luck getting the center of gravity as low as a good sports car and good luck getting decent downforce to help with cornering and braking. It's still gonna be a tall vehicle with minimal (or even negative) downforce at speed. You're never going to make a 911 or a Vette out of a vehicle like an Explorer.
747 Driver
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06-08-2020, 05:17 PM #38
Like i said nothing suspension can't fix. There are a lot of cars out there, not known for handling, doing just fine on courses. None of us are professional race car drivers.
An owner of an explorer tuned, is not going to push the SUV to break lap records. He/she will be going to the track for fun for their personal pleasures.
Even vette owners can't even bring 10% of the car's potential on the track. And the car is setup to break lap records right off the showroom floor. Some owners don't even know how to access the performance management menu.
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06-08-2020, 05:36 PM #39
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I have to agree with most of this. Most of the people I teach think they can drive as fast and as smoothly with one hand as they can with two. But given a professional driver the tuned and modded SUV isn't going to touch a stock GT3 RS (for example). It just won't. Not saying someone can't have fun with it, but a sports car it will never be. And if it's lowered and modded for track use then it loses some of the utility for off roading (while still being better offroad than a 911 or Vette, obviously). It can't do both things exceptionally well with a given suspension setup.
But you're right that most people can't push their stock vehicles to even 60% of the vehicle's limits. The most fun (and frickin scary at times) I ever had driving was driving my GT3 RS on the Nurburgring before shipping it back to the states. I never got close to 100% of the car's potential. I use my track days for personal improvement not for reaching the level of a Lewis Hamilton.747 Driver
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06-08-2020, 05:56 PM #40
A GT3 RS is basically a race car for the street lol.
To make your comparison more fair. An explorer, tuned for some extra power, and some suspension work with a PRO driver, will probably run a faster lap time than an average joe with little to no track experience in a GT3 RS.
Btw, someone i know that attends our car meets, has a dropped trackhawk. It's lowered only 1 inch, and still has more ground clearance than most sports cars. So it's still a capable "truck". The owner just made the truck more of a fast street truck instead of keep it stock. And he can still drive it all year round. He's just not rock climbing with it, nor will the truck do it stock anyhow. Suspension work doesn't always equate into slamming the car/truck to the ground.
There's a reason why performance SUV's are popular now. Because performance is being implemented into the DNA so it can do many or all things. Daily, performance, all weather, trails, etc.
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06-08-2020, 06:57 PM #41
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06-08-2020, 08:11 PM #42
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They do everything average and need massive amounts of power that cars don't to hit 12 or 11's.
Honestly the biggest reason I bought a SUV instead of a sports car is because the streets look like this in Chicago:
You need a SUV or you're gonna slowly destroy that car/rims/underbody from bottoming it outMod neg Cry-Baby Crew
NEG ONLYFANS THREADS CREW
EPSTEIN DIDN'T KILL HIMSELF CREW
RAW DOG CREW - PRESIDENT OF THE COMPANY
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06-09-2020, 12:20 PM #43
Well of course, power to weight. It's still a versatile vehicle. Cars i became more appreciative of as i gotten older. That's why i went for a big sedan with a V8 for a daily. Could have gotten another 2 door sports car, like the mustang etc. I wanted something more comfortable, bigger, spacious, with power.
Honestly the biggest reason I bought a SUV instead of a sports car is because the streets look like this in Chicago:
You need a SUV or you're gonna slowly destroy that car/rims/underbody from bottoming it out
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06-10-2020, 10:07 AM #44
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06-11-2020, 06:49 PM #45
people like to talk down the z's and say how much better mustangs are etc. but really the Nissan Z/ Infinity G/Q front midship chassis is really quite good, it was so well designed back in what 2003 that it's only needed minor changes for the last ~18 years. Compare that with what mustang was doing with solid rear axles back in 2003 (lmao atrocious). The only thing that really held back the Z's was the weak deck, high compression motor. With a new motor that can handle boost I really have high hopes for this car. While every car is phasing out manuals, Z is staying true, its gonna be a true drivers car.
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06-11-2020, 11:25 PM #46
People down talk Z's because they are cheap budget sports cars. I don't mean to offend anybody by saying this either, it's just the truth behind the down talk. So are Mustang GT's but those are more widely accepted because American icon.
The original G35/z33 350z were refreshing back in 03 but by 08 they were done and outdated. 6MT and Brembos were nice. Now Infiniti's are associated with the riff raff. Ghetto fabulous beaner mobiles. They're cringey cheap Nissans. The Z32 300zx were also nice in their day.
370z's are SO CRINGE nowadays.
IMO the new Z must look better and perform better than the supra for it to get the proper nod.
You can still get manual Porsche's, Vettes, Stangs... etc.
No one in this thread will buy the new Z.
The new 3.0t's sound like ASS inside compared to the VQ.
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06-12-2020, 07:34 AM #47
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06-12-2020, 10:30 AM #48
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06-12-2020, 12:29 PM #49
I agree i won't say it's cringe but the market for those cars are so small.
It's in a very odd situation, especially in the times we're in now. I say when the 350Z first came out, that was one of the hottest cars for under 50k. 2 seater, RWD, manual, with a v6.
But it's like the car grew up, but the mentality didn't lol.
I do agree with the other guy though, i don't think it'll sell well. Only loyal nissan and/or loyal Z enthusiasts will buy this car. Talking about the 400Z now.
Someone brand new to cars or want something different than what they're coming from won't get a car like this. 2 seater RWD. They'll start looking at used corvettes like the other guy said. Or go with a performance sedan.
Having a spacious performance car is the new trend now. Performance SUV's are a new trend now.
Like you really have to WOW the audience for them to buy a japanese 2 seater that's RWD.
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06-12-2020, 03:12 PM #50
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07-11-2020, 01:05 PM #51
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07-11-2020, 01:43 PM #52
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07-11-2020, 06:55 PM #53
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07-12-2020, 02:41 PM #54
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07-12-2020, 06:01 PM #55
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07-12-2020, 07:58 PM #56
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07-13-2020, 05:09 AM #57
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07-13-2020, 11:21 AM #58
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09-11-2020, 09:56 AM #59
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09-12-2020, 03:02 PM #60
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