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  1. #1
    Registered User Sal29's Avatar
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    Sweden followed Conservative gameplan while Finland followed Liberal Gameplan.

    Let's see what happened.
    Sweden has the population of Los Angeles County. If it had as many people as the US, Sweden would have 135,387 Covid-19 Deaths by now.
    If Finland had as many people as the US, it would have 18,616 deaths from Covid-19 by now.
    https://www.worldometers.info/corona...ountry/sweden/
    https://www.worldometers.info/corona...untry/finland/
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  2. #2
    Registered User Reliance012's Avatar
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    Right now Sweden is doing demonstrably much worse than its neighbors. A year from now we’ll have to see how much that gap has closed, in addition to the differences in economic recoveries.
    Last edited by Reliance012; 05-27-2020 at 09:59 PM.
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  3. #3
    Registered User alain's Avatar
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    Like the poster above said we'll see what happens in a year.

    The virus is here and it ain't going away and the vaccine is at least 1 year away, to continue with the lockdowns for a whole year isn't feasible.
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  4. #4
    Not a liberal cuck dustinh6719's Avatar
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    I love the part where you said "would have had"

    Instead of "would have" "could have" come back when you have "did have"
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  5. #5
    Fuk off, Lahey! LargePeter's Avatar
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    What game plan did NY and NJ follow?
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  6. #6
    Registered User BigDeeps01's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LargePeter View Post
    What game plan did NY and NJ follow?
    It's Trumps faults thats all you need to know
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  7. #7
    Fuk off, Lahey! LargePeter's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BigDeeps01 View Post
    It's Trumps faults thats all you need to know
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  8. #8
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    Let's compare the actions taken to decide who wins.
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  9. #9
    Registered User isingmodel's Avatar
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    It remains to be seen how the numbers will look in the longer run, but there are a few things that we are already seeing:

    -Antibody studies in Stockholm do not seem to indicate anything near herd immunity
    -Neighbouring countries like Denmark have not seen a resurgence after opening, they seem to be successfully maintaining R under 1 and suppressing spread
    -Sweden's economic projections are not any better than other Eurozone countries - unemployment of ~10%, and 6-7% negative GDP growth are expected
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  10. #10
    Registered User ScottTil's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    It remains to be seen how the numbers will look in the longer run, but there are a few things that we are already seeing:

    -Antibody studies in Stockholm do not seem to indicate anything near herd immunity
    -Neighbouring countries like Denmark have not seen a resurgence after opening, they seem to be successfully maintaining R under 1 and suppressing spread
    -Sweden's economic projections are not any better than other Eurozone countries - unemployment of ~10%, and 6-7% negative GDP growth are expected
    talking about herd immunity when a vaccine doesn't even exist...
    your not going to make it bro
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  11. #11
    Registered User isingmodel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ScottTil View Post
    talking about herd immunity when a vaccine doesn't even exist...
    your not going to make it bro
    It was Sweden who were aiming for herd immunity with their strategy, not me
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  12. #12
    Anti-Circumcision JoshSP1985's Avatar
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    So you're comparing a country that took a route to have more pain up front with the goal of getting past it sooner vs one that took the path to extend the pain out for a long time?

    Cliffs: Too early to tell who made the correct decision

    Also COVID deaths can't be the only barometer of success this is a highly complex issue with many many data points that should be considered.

    If COVID deaths were the only consideration the entire would should have declared martial law and closed all businesses and travel for 3 weeks.
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  13. #13
    Cold Hearted SOB Dave22reborn's Avatar
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    Whats the liberal game plan?
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  14. #14
    WOATbrah of peace :) sooby's Avatar
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    And UK, France, Belgium, Spain, Italy followed the "liberal gameplan" yet they have reported more deaths per capita and trends are following the same trajectory regardless.
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  15. #15
    ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Tamorlane's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dave22reborn View Post
    Whats the liberal game plan?
    Listen to the scientific experts:

    -flatten the curve
    -wear masks to mitigate spread
    -social distancing


    Republicans:

    -open back up ASAP to get Trump's approval rating back up*
    -election in november
    -virus probably gone, seems so
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  16. #16
    Unregistered User Cleveland33's Avatar
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    looks to me that the conservative plan wins
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  17. #17
    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
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    Japan has used a strategic plan similar to the conservative plan and their bars, restaurants, shopping and public places are packed.



    Sal, thanks for the laughs. As a note, this should not be a political thing. I just mentioned conservative because you did.
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  18. #18
    No Agony, No Bragony JUSA's Avatar
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    OP is a perpetual moron, so ignore him for a second -- but different regions, even within the United States, clearly react differently to this virus. There are so many factors that to draw a clear conclusion like this is just inane and a waste of time.

    Btw, I see people chitting on Isingmodel in this thread but he's been level headed about this consistently.
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  19. #19
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    Listen to the scientific experts:

    -flatten the curve
    -wear masks to mitigate spread
    -social distancing


    Republicans:

    -open back up ASAP to get Trump's approval rating back up*
    -election in november
    -virus probably gone, seems so
    We have flattened the curve. Now what?
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  20. #20
    ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Tamorlane's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by wesleysh21 View Post
    We have flattened the curve. Now what?
    -widespread testing to identify the infected
    -isolate the infected
    -gradually re-open society
    -practice physical distancing in public settings
    -wait for vaccine (cringe)

    As far as i've read the virus is not very infectious a second time around, if at all, which is a really good thing. There's still potential of another outbreak though (reaching those who haven't been infected yet) and the second waves are usually more intense due to mutation. It's expected to spike in the colder season.
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  21. #21
    Unregistered User Cleveland33's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    -widespread testing to identify the infected
    -voluntary only

    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    -isolate the infected
    -voluntary only
    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    -gradually re-open society
    -no

    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    -practice physical distancing in public settings
    -restrict large (over 500) crowds

    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    -wait for vaccine (cringe)
    -voluntary only
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  22. #22
    ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Tamorlane's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cleveland33 View Post
    -voluntary only
    If you test positive or show symptoms then no it shouldn't be voluntary. You should be ordered to quarantine until you are no longer a threat to your surroundings.

    Not sure why you're arguing for some infected pos to go into a public place and willingly infect others.
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  23. #23
    Unregistered User Cleveland33's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    If you test positive or show symptoms then no it shouldn't be voluntary. You should be ordered to quarantine until you are no longer a threat to your surroundings.

    Not sure why you're arguing for some infected pos to go into a public place and willingly infect others.
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    -widespread testing to identify the infected
    -isolate the infected
    -gradually re-open society
    -practice physical distancing in public settings
    -wait for vaccine (cringe)

    As far as i've read the virus is not very infectious a second time around, if at all, which is a really good thing. There's still potential of another outbreak though (reaching those who haven't been infected yet) and the second waves are usually more intense due to mutation. It's expected to spike in the colder season.
    All while making sure anything resembling normalcy doesn't happen until after November, amirite?
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    ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Tamorlane's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by deepfat View Post
    All while making sure anything resembling normalcy doesn't happen until after November, amirite?
    Not for me, i'd rather it be a fair competition for the benefit of Americans as a whole. I personally hope Trump is a one-termer so if it did stay shutdown and it caused him to lose i'd be happy for that, but not how it was achieved. The reason I support a careful approach (in my country particularly) is because I don't want a second influx that prolongs the entire thing. Imagine you listened to the experts and it was resolved in 5 months. Imagine you listen to trump and prematurely re-open and it ends up taking 14 months. You'd rather the one that deals with it in the long-term in the quickest and most effective way.

    Trump needs it opened ASAP because he needs to win the election in November. He doesn't care beyond that. He's thinking in the short-term, and that's what foolish people do. Wise ones and good leaders look to the long-term in particular.
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    Not for me, i'd rather it be a fair competition for the benefit of Americans as a whole. I personally hope Trump is a one-termer so if it did stay shutdown and it caused him to lose i'd be happy for that, but not how it was achieved. The reason I support a careful approach (in my country particularly) is because I don't want a second influx that prolongs the entire thing. Imagine you listened to the experts and it was resolved in 5 months. Imagine you listen to trump and prematurely re-open and it ends up taking 14 months. You'd rather the one that deals with it in the long-term in the quickest and most effective way.

    Trump needs it opened ASAP because he needs to win the election in November. He doesn't care beyond that. He's thinking in the short-term, and that's what foolish people do. Wise ones and good leaders look to the long-term in particular.
    Why do you personally hope Trump is a one-termer? How would a Trump re-election affect your life as a Canadian?
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    Not for me, i'd rather it be a fair competition for the benefit of Americans as a whole. I personally hope Trump is a one-termer so if it did stay shutdown and it caused him to lose i'd be happy for that, but not how it was achieved. The reason I support a careful approach (in my country particularly) is because I don't want a second influx that prolongs the entire thing. Imagine you listened to the experts and it was resolved in 5 months. Imagine you listen to trump and prematurely re-open and it ends up taking 14 months. You'd rather the one that deals with it in the long-term in the quickest and most effective way.

    Trump needs it opened ASAP because he needs to win the election in November. He doesn't care beyond that. He's thinking in the short-term, and that's what foolish people do. Wise ones and good leaders look to the long-term in particular.
    I don't agree with this. Firstly - if there is a second outbreak, I don't think we will go back to shutdowns, the people won't stand for it.

    Secondly, I don't this is impacting Trump's chances at reelection. In fact Trump's handling of this in the last couple weeks is the first thing that has made me question if I want to vote for him again.
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    How's that herd immunity coming along?
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    Originally Posted by FatBallz View Post
    Why do you personally hope Trump is a one-termer? How would a Trump re-election affect your life as a Canadian?
    America has an influence on the rest of the world unfortunately, typically because the world economy is tied to the USD. Canada is unique in that it is a developed country that borders the US, with 90% of the population in close proximity with the US/Canada border. As just one example, Canadians are keeping the border closed longer because we don't want to open things up quickly like Trump. We don't have an election to win, we care about the health of our country and it's people.

    He's a terrible leader. He's probably not a bad person, but he's narcissistic and not fit to the be the president. He can't take criticism, puts himself before the country, isn't principled, and his wannabe nationalist rhetoric and lapdogging for Putin is dangerous. He's weakening America and their traditional allies while strengthening his admiration for dictators like Putin, Xi, Dueterte and KJU.

    And that's to say nothing of the GOP, who I fuking despise. They are a bunch of morally-infant scumbags who have sold out the US. I know you poor republicans love your guns and fox news but i'm talking about the GOP leadership. And now we have the cult. The right wing has deteriorated and regressed into a literal cult. The US is the most divided it's ever been since the civil war.

    He's dangerous and America is going down the toilet at an accelerated pace. This happens when the GOP are in charge since they've proven themselves incapable of governing for the better, but it's in hyper drive.
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    Trump needs it opened ASAP because he needs to win the election in November. He doesn't care beyond that. He's thinking in the short-term, and that's what foolish people do. Wise ones and good leaders look to the long-term in particular.
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