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  1. #301
    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by supramax View Post
    Unless Chauvin had been planning to kill Floyd or deliberately killed him, it's not first degree murder.
    That is a tough call. But, he had 9 minutes of planning.
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  2. #302
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    That is a tough call. But, he had 9 minutes of planning.
    I don't see any way they can get this prick on 1st degree murder. Did he think in those 9 minutes: "If I hold this guy like this long enough he'll die"?
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  3. #303
    Quarantined Finja Cass40's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by supramax View Post
    I don't see any way they can get this prick on 1st degree murder. Did he think in those 9 minutes: "If I hold this guy like this long enough he'll die"?

    Wouldn't it depend on his training?

    Joe Rogan was saying than anyone who knows jujitsu, for example, would know that it would kill him.
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  4. #304
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    That is a tough call. But, he had 9 minutes of planning.
    Reasonable doubt on first degree murder in this case would be a serious challenge. This cop probably isn’t bringing in a public defender, and the video (the strongest evidence so far) doesn’t prove intent.

    We can sit back and say the cop knew it would kill him, but in the court room, I doubt that would fly.

    Even though there appears to be a history between them, that again likely wouldn’t support 1st degree murder.

    2nd degree imo, is the best bet for a verdict favoring the prosecution.

    I’d definitely support 1st degree murder, but if the lawyers thought they could get it, they’d already be doing it.

    All just my opinion.
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  5. #305
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  6. #306
    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by supramax View Post
    I don't see any way they can get this prick on 1st degree murder. Did he think in those 9 minutes: "If I hold this guy like this long enough he'll die"?
    Originally Posted by Brackneyc View Post
    Reasonable doubt on first degree murder in this case would be a serious challenge. This cop probably isn’t bringing in a public defender, and the video (the strongest evidence so far) doesn’t prove intent.

    We can sit back and say the cop knew it would kill him, but in the court room, I doubt that would fly.

    Even though there appears to be a history between them, that again likely wouldn’t support 1st degree murder.

    2nd degree imo, is the best bet for a verdict favoring the prosecution.

    I’d definitely support 1st degree murder, but if the lawyers thought they could get it, they’d already be doing it.

    All just my opinion.
    I am no lawyer and both of you make good observations. So, I can't make a case. 2nd degree murder is no picnic, either.
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  7. #307
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    Wouldn't it depend on his training?

    Joe Rogan was saying than anyone who knows jujitsu, for example, would know that it would kill him.
    If the intent is to kill, it wouldn't take 9 minutes. More likely, the intent was to punish, embarass, humble and humiliate. He'll say: "He was telling me he couldn't breathe, but he was talking, so he could breathe." If you cut off someones' bloodflow to the brain, they're unconscious in a matter of seconds.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

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  8. #308
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    I am no lawyer and both of you make good observations. So, I can't make a case. 2nd degree murder is no picnic, either.
    Hopefully, the whole bunch of them will be convicted of 2nd degree murder. The system is corrupt, though, so who knows?
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

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  9. #309
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  10. #310
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    NASCAR bans Confederate flag from its races and properties
    That should put an end to cops putting the knee in the necks for sure!
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  11. #311
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    Originally Posted by Brackneyc View Post
    Considering it will be doubtful to get anything resembling an impartial jury, you’re probably right.

    I’d love to see the guy put under the jail. But, the prisoner has rights, as well the guarantee of a trial, presuming innocence prior to the trial.


    These are the situations that test the strength of our rights. We either have them, or we don’t. There is no gray area imo.
    No question of that. But a fair trial doesn't preclude a jury being able to decide between degrees of murder. And I do believe that impartial juries are possible, although the system we have now doesn't exactly make that process easy. It requires a concerted effort from prosecutors, defense, and good judicial oversight.
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  12. #312
    Humble Megalomaniac ElrondHubbard's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    That should put an end to cops putting the knee in the necks for sure!
    Charlottesville and Dylan Roof were soooo 1870!
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    Originally Posted by supramax View Post
    I don't see any way they can get this prick on 1st degree murder. Did he think in those 9 minutes: "If I hold this guy like this long enough he'll die"?
    There's no reason to believe with his training and experience he would NOT have known it would be fatal if sustained. It may rest on what counts as "pre-meditated." Chauvin had 9 minutes to think about what he was doing, and he had plenty of people telling him that he was killing Floyd. I would think that would be plenty of time to form a premeditation, to simply continue the pressure until Floyd was dead. It's pretty clear from the video that it was not a crime of passion. Chauvin was not acting in the heat of the moment. He had plenty of time -- and outside encouragement -- to consider his actions and to back off the fatal restraint. He willingly and calmly chose not to do that.

    Again, though, a jury should be empowered to decide the degree of the crime.
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    Humble Megalomaniac ElrondHubbard's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by supramax View Post
    Hopefully, the whole bunch of them will be convicted of 2nd degree murder. The system is corrupt, though, so who knows?
    The others haven't been charged with murder, only aiding and abetting, as far as I've read.
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    Registered User LWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ElrondHubbard View Post
    Charlottesville and Dylan Roof were soooo 1870!

    At least you knew, then.
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    Registered User LWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post

    ugh, at least the first two ain't a cop problem, the third was a "former" (or EX) cop. Just trying to stick to "facts".
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    ugh, at least the first two ain't a cop problem, the third was a "former" (or EX) cop. Just trying to stick to "facts".
    It appears that some of that went right over your head half pint, try standing on a chair


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    Originally Posted by ElrondHubbard View Post
    There's no reason to believe with his training and experience he would NOT have known it would be fatal if sustained. It may rest on what counts as "pre-meditated." Chauvin had 9 minutes to think about what he was doing, and he had plenty of people telling him that he was killing Floyd. I would think that would be plenty of time to form a premeditation, to simply continue the pressure until Floyd was dead. It's pretty clear from the video that it was not a crime of passion. Chauvin was not acting in the heat of the moment. He had plenty of time -- and outside encouragement -- to consider his actions and to back off the fatal restraint. He willingly and calmly chose not to do that.

    Again, though, a jury should be empowered to decide the degree of the crime.
    Floyd died of asphyxiation while being able to talk. That is Chauvins' out.
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    Originally Posted by ElrondHubbard View Post
    The others haven't been charged with murder, only aiding and abetting, as far as I've read.
    I thought that in the States, if you were an accessory to a murder, you were also guilty of the murder.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

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    Originally Posted by supramax View Post
    I thought that in the States, if you were an accessory to a murder, you were also guilty of the murder.
    Semantics. Though I am sure some idiots will be along shortly to tell you how wrong you are.
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    Originally Posted by supramax View Post
    I thought that in the States, if you were an accessory to a murder, you were also guilty of the murder.
    Yeah, it seems there was some controversy about that too. I guess the charging rules are infinitely flexible.
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    Originally Posted by ElrondHubbard View Post
    Yeah, it seems there was some controversy about that too. I guess the charging rules are infinitely flexible.
    Probably depends on the State you're in and the colour of your skin.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

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    On a minor side note, cops are learning from this. I saw a video of 2 cops holding a protestor down and one cop had his knee on the guy's neck. The other cop quickly pulled it off and onto the guy's upper back.
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    Originally Posted by Iceman1800 View Post
    On a minor side note, cops are learning from this. I saw a video of 2 cops holding a protestor down and one cop had his knee on the guy's neck. The other cop quickly pulled it off and onto the guy's upper back.
    Well, for sure the next time someone dies the victim of the 'Chauvin maneuver', it will be 1st degree murder.
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    Originally Posted by supramax View Post
    Probably depends on the State you're in and the colour of your skin.
    No, it’s just a way to get someone weak to snitch, in return reduce the charges.
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    WALMART INC will stop keeping personal care products designed for people of color in locked display cases, the retailer said, after the practice drew flak online with many saying it suggested customers for these products cannot be trusted.

    "We have made the decision to discontinue placing multicultural hair care and beauty products in locked cases," the company said in an email statement on Wednesday.

    Walmart said the practice was in place in about a dozen of its 4,700 stores in the United States and the cases were in place to deter shoplifters from products such as electronics, automotive, cosmetics and other personal care products.

    The criticism of the retailer comes at a time when the United States has been rocked by protests against racial discrimination, following the killing of an unarmed black man, George Floyd, on May 25.



    I know nothing about hair care products, but I consider this to be a good thing. I didn't even know this was going on. It's 2020, we should be better than this.
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    Originally Posted by supramax View Post
    I thought that in the States, if you were an accessory to a murder, you were also guilty of the murder.
    Three adults with badges watched a veteran cop kill a man while other people videotaped it.

    All 4 should get the same treatment.

    I’m still supporting 2nd degree, as 3rd could probably set all 4 of them free, given the significance of that charge. I’d rather they get 40, than 0.
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    NASCAR bans Confederate flag from its races and properties

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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post

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    Originally Posted by bustasinclair View Post

    You realize that is not real. The guy did quit and here is his actual tweet.


    His actual point has a lot of truth.

    Excerpt from his tweet over quitting " I could care less about the Confederate Flag but there are ppl that do and it doesn't make them a racist all you are doing is ****ing one group to cater to another and I ain't spent the money we are to participate in any political BS!! So everything is for SALE!!.


    Being in the South for 20 years it is crazy that the confederacy has become such a flash point for racism. I have friends that were born here and they have generations of family. There is a pride in Southern heritage.

    The civil was NOT fought over slavery. It was a massive assertion of Federal Power. "Our way or the highway". Every other civilized nation ended slavery without going to war and killing off a significant part of the male population. It would have been cheaper for the Union to compensate business owners for their losses than the cost to fight the war, but it was not about 'saving lives' or freeing the slaves. It was about demanding power and control at the federal level.

    Being proud of your southern heritage and even the confederate flag does not make you a racist by default. This stuff it out of hand. The pandering and slamming of anyone that does not buy into the full narrative of these ideas of BLM...etc is going too far. There is no real dialogue going on since any mention of issues that have FAR greater impact are met with calls of racisism.
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