Jon Jones on the killing of George Floyd

[Farley1324]

As much as rioting is problematic and bad in many ways, it does make it evident that problems are real and need to be addressed. Without rioting, there is some element of appeasement, that doing nothing is adequate since doing nothing will just maintain the peaceful status quo. Without escalation nothing may happen. This is historically not unprecedented, given that it seems the Rodney King riots forced the issue and public discourse regarding it to the forefront.

No, it doesn't. People are stupid and riot over **** that is not a problem and does not need to be addressed. They even riot based on lies.


The 1992 LA riots? lol, you mean when the Koreans had to start shooting people and hang out on their roofs with guns because attacking them and burning their businesses and stealing their property was justified because wait what? No.

But hey I'm sure pulling reginald denny out of his truck and literally beating him with a brick and leaving him bleeding from the head and unconscious on live national TV helped their cause.


I guess the lesson here is, if you're in Minneapolis or anywhere near there, carry your gun, legal or not, 'cause you might have to shoot some folks who try to kill you for having the wrong color skin but hey that's how you get things done amiright Don't forget the spare mags 'cause it'll be mob mentality

H E L P F U L

[LWW]

Rioting is a cowards way to try to get change.

If they want real change and have the motivation to destroy and fight, they should all just join the police force, that way they can change how things are.

I can't take credit for that idea, I was in a majority black college and our professor (who was same race) said put down the Freddy Gray sign and have all your friends become cops, they all laughed at him and when it was time to go, they all split to go party.

A small group of us used to stay after class on Friday nights and chat about all kinds of stuff, best professor I ever had, and he had some off the wall thoughts too, he was a crazy guy.

[Corbi]

Minneapolis is fukked up right now with lots of looting, saw vids of a Target store that was wiped out. Why does protesting always seem to lead to mob actions of looting & burning $hit down? I could say so much more but will just stop now as this just pisses me off.

[mtpockets]

Minneapolis is fukked up right now with lots of looting, saw vids of a Target store that was wiped out. Why does protesting always seem to lead to mob actions of looting & burning $hit down? I could say so much more but will just stop now as this just pisses me off.

[Corbi]

Absolutely disgusting criminals every damn one of them, lets wait and see if Bando comes in and defends these pieces of $hit as poor misunderstood oppressed folks.

[Blazenwave]

It is a very, very, very nasty way to die. Put aside the races of the two men, what we essentially are watching when we see that video is some nasty torture. Most men in war don't even die that painfully.

[hendrixfreak70]

Is there a coincidence in Target being hit by looters?

[Vrykul]

Cops really need better training and vetting

How do you even start this process though? Every state pretty much has their own system of hiring and training cops don't they?

Maybe we should privatize the police semi-srs

[Jtbny]

Part of it is simply how many things people would like cops to get advanced training on. It ends up being a ton of stuff we expect them to be really good at. You know the saying about jack of all trades

True. They do get range time but some sort of combat training, IMO, should be tied to compensation of some sort. Teachers are required a certain number of continuing education I don't see why that can't be applied to those in charge of law enforcement.

Perhaps cops in training should get choke holds applied to them, that way they know how it feels for just one second?

As someone who has felt a choke hold applied with full force, the body natural reacts and there is no control over that, a stupid cop will take that reaction as resistance, which, it is, it is resisting the fact you are literally dying.

When I first started BJJ I would apply a knee on belly that would break a rib/sternum because I simply didn't know what I was doing. Now, I can apply it for control w/ much less force and the same outcome (except not actually damaging any internal organs). Knowing how and what to do to control situations using appropriate force can be learned and doesn't come naturally like one might think. What we saw in the vid was basically a knee on belly except he applied it to his neck. He was cutting off blood flow rather than cutting off his breathing.

Cops and military do get some combat training during academy/boot but its more of a crash course (introduction) and not advanced to any level beyond that. IMO, is should be required to some level to maintain fitness and for situations they will likely encounter (LEOS mostly). Again, I train w/ a room full of cops, former/active service members who all say the same thing so my opinion has been shaped.

[Karl_Hungus]

Minneapolis is fukked up right now with lots of looting, saw vids of a Target store that was wiped out. Why does protesting always seem to lead to mob actions of looting & burning $hit down? I could say so much more but will just stop now as this just pisses me off.

I'm sure they are doing it for George Floyd as a mechanism for social change as opposed to using the tragedy as an opportunity to get free sh!t. You can see the somber contemplative look on their faces as they carry out TV's and smash windows. If they can get free laptops and sneakers, then George did not die in vain.

[Iceman1800]

I'm sure they are doing it for George Floyd as a mechanism for social change as opposed to using the tragedy as an opportunity to get free sh!t. You can see the somber contemplative look on their faces as they carry out TV's and smash windows. If they can get free laptops and sneakers, then George did not die in vain.

So you're assuming this is racial now? You argued against that earlier

[Karl_Hungus]

So you're assuming this is racial now? You argued against that earlier

Your sarcasm detector needs retuned.

[x-trainer ben]

This should be obvious but there is no Id check in large crowds to separate the normal protesters from the criminals that show up.
If someone can figure out a way to do that in the age of social media, then they would be a genius.
Recall that in the 60's members of the agencies and police would infiltrate various organizations, so how can average citizens prevent it in 2020?

Food for thought.

[Farley1324]

True. They do get range time but some sort of combat training, IMO, should be tied to compensation of some sort. Teachers are required a certain number of continuing education I don't see why that can't be applied to those in charge of law enforcement.

LE does get continuing education.

Cops and military do get some combat training during academy/boot but its more of a crash course (introduction) and not advanced to any level beyond that. IMO, is should be required to some level to maintain fitness and for situations they will likely encounter (LEOS mostly). Again, I train w/ a room full of cops, former/active service members who all say the same thing so my opinion has been shaped.

Right. LEOs need to 'know' so many different skills and disciplines to do the job, there isn't time or funding to get them advanced in all of them. Every cop isn't going to be a well conditioned, advanced BJJ, firearms expert, verbal judo slinging, race car driving lawyer EMT who dabbles in EOD and hazmat situations.

A policy against putting weight or pressure (or, basically, contacting) the neck of a person in cuffs is all that's needed here. And severe repercussions when what happened here, happens.

This should be obvious but there is no Id check in large crowds to separate the normal protesters from the criminals that show up.
If someone can figure out a way to do that in the age of social media, then they would be a genius.
Recall that in the 60's members of the agencies and police would infiltrate various organizations, so how can average citizens prevent it in 2020?

Food for thought.

Think those were under cover FBI agents doing all that looting and arson?

How about, citizens don't do that **** and it won't be a problem? See the Richmond, VA protest January 20 that left the place cleaner and nicer than before 20,000 protesters showed up.

[x-trainer ben]

No the undercover was a reference to the 60s and groups that they infiltrated.
Now we need to discuss the first part of the post, how do you keep out people that will cause trouble for a peaceful protest.

Any suggestions on how to do it??

[Farley1324]

No the undercover was a reference to the 60s and groups that they infiltrated.
Now we need to discuss the first part of the post, how do you keep out people that will cause trouble for a peaceful protest.

Any suggestions on how to do it??

Invent the thought police and scan everybody's brainwaves as they show up to gauge their propensity for violence and destruction. If they are judged too risky, remove them.

Or, bring out the riot police and go hard and fast to arrest every single person who displays violence or property destruction during the riot. Don't let them freely go into Target and steal everything, swarm in and arrest every last ****ing one of them and charge them with everything you've got. See if they feel like using these events as an excuse to go loot and burn the next time (apply the same to sportsball antics when that's a thing again, IDGAF if 'your' team won or lost or you think the ref blew a call, leave other people's sht alone)

[7Seconds]

No the undercover was a reference to the 60s and groups that they infiltrated.
Now we need to discuss the first part of the post, how do you keep out people that will cause trouble for a peaceful protest.

Any suggestions on how to do it??

Truly disruptive civil disorder has a better chance to force change than protesting peacefully. The point isn't necessarily about destroying property specifically. It's about disruption and civil disorder, forcing the city to do something to get back to normal functioning. It's fine to say on paper that we're only going to block streets or we're only going to surround the police station, but that's being naively optimistic about the operational integrity of a disorganized group of angry protesters. If you surround a police station, and then somebody jumps out of your crowd and puts a rock through a window, well you shouldn't be surprised. What are you going to do at that point, be like "Steve! We all agreed we wouldn't do that!" And then what?


If you watch any videos of riots like this it's a majority of people standing around doing non-violent disruption and a small minority of people actively engaging in property damage. The property damage is the cost of doing the non-violent disruption. It comes with the territory. Though it should be pointed out that property destruction is still illegal and people who engage in it are ultimately responsible for their actions, protest or not.

[Farley1324]

Truly disruptive civil disorder has a better chance to force change than protesting peacefully. The point isn't necessarily about destroying property specifically. It's about disruption and civil disorder, forcing the city to do something to get back to normal functioning. It's fine to say on paper that we're only going to block streets or we're only going to surround the police station, but that's being naively optimistic about the operational integrity of a disorganized group of angry protesters. If you surround a police station, and then somebody jumps out of your crowd and puts a rock through a window, well you shouldn't be surprised. What are you going to do at that point, be like "Steve! We all agreed we wouldn't do that!" And then what?


If you watch any videos of riots like this it's a majority of people standing around doing non-violent disruption and a small minority of people actively engaging in property damage. The property damage is the cost of doing the non-violent disruption. It comes with the territory. Though it should be pointed out that property destruction is still illegal and people who engage in it are ultimately responsible for their actions, protest or not.

No rocks thrown, no windows broken, no fires started, nothing stolen, nobody attacked, litter cleaned up when they left

At least 20,000 people and probably more guns than people

[x-trainer ben]

Truly disruptive civil disorder has a better chance to force change than protesting peacefully. The point isn't necessarily about destroying property specifically. It's about disruption and civil disorder, forcing the city to do something to get back to normal functioning. It's fine to say on paper that we're only going to block streets or we're only going to surround the police station, but that's being naively optimistic about the operational integrity of a disorganized group of angry protesters. If you surround a police station, and then somebody jumps out of your crowd and puts a rock through a window, well you shouldn't be surprised. What are you going to do at that point, be like "Steve! We all agreed we wouldn't do that!" And then what?


If you watch any videos of riots like this it's a majority of people standing around doing non-violent disruption and a small minority of people actively engaging in property damage. The property damage is the cost of doing the non-violent disruption. It comes with the territory. Though it should be pointed out that property destruction is still illegal and people who engage in it are ultimately responsible for their actions, protest or not.

Great post and I am very aware having spoken to old heads at barber shops and relatives. One guy told me, they only pay attention when you break chit.

[x-trainer ben]

Invent the thought police and scan everybody's brainwaves as they show up to gauge their propensity for violence and destruction. If they are judged too risky, remove them.

Or, bring out the riot police and go hard and fast to arrest every single person who displays violence or property destruction during the riot. Don't let them freely go into Target and steal everything, swarm in and arrest every last ****ing one of them and charge them with everything you've got. See if they feel like using these events as an excuse to go loot and burn the next time (apply the same to sportsball antics when that's a thing again, IDGAF if 'your' team won or lost or you think the ref blew a call, leave other people's sht alone)

Ha ha I used the minority report movie example in another post.

[x-trainer ben]

No rocks thrown, no windows broken, no fires started, nothing stolen, nobody attacked, litter cleaned up when they left

At least 20,000 people and probably more guns than people

Same thing happened at the million man march in DC many years ago. No drama, it really depends on the attendees.

[eomrat]

Same thing happened at the million man march in DC many years ago. No drama, it really depends on the attendees.

True. In fairness to the rioters (I am dead serious), these peaceful protests did not take place immediately after 5 pigs murdered a man in cold blood.

[Farley1324]

True. In fairness to the rioters (I am dead serious), these peaceful protests did not take place immediately after 5 pigs murdered a man in cold blood.

For that, the Autozone must burn and Bill is owed a new plasma TV from Target

[eomrat]

For that, the Autozone must burn and Bill is owed a new plasma TV from Target

You are a racist POS.

[Farley1324]

You are a racist POS.

Explain

[eomrat]

Explain

Tell you what. You keep going on and on and on and on and on

and I will just keep posting:

You are a racist POS.

That will be fun for 10 or 12 pages at least.


You are a racist POS.

[Farley1324]

Tell you what. You keep going on and on and on and on and on

and I will just keep posting:

You are a racist POS.

That will be fun for 10 or 12 pages at least.


You are a racist POS.

Explain

[LWW]

Truly disruptive civil disorder has a better chance to force change than protesting peacefully.

I think you're incorrect, otherwise why does this continue? Nothing has really changed since LA in the 90's? The officers are fired immediately and they still rioting.

Again, if people got the motivation to go out and get angry or even protest, and are so passionate about change they need to clean them selves up, step up and become cops?

Private police is another good idea from another poster here, basically the states and politics should be run that way, Jessie Ventura approach.

[Jtbny]

LE does get continuing education.




Right. LEOs need to 'know' so many different skills and disciplines to do the job, there isn't time or funding to get them advanced in all of them. Every cop isn't going to be a well conditioned, advanced BJJ, firearms expert, verbal judo slinging, race car driving lawyer EMT who dabbles in EOD and hazmat situations.

A policy against putting weight or pressure (or, basically, contacting) the neck of a person in cuffs is all that's needed here. And severe repercussions when what happened here, happens.

I'll listen to actual LEOs I train with rather than an internet expert. No one said they need to be advanced in anything just continued. Even a blue belt will be far better equipped to handle any physical altercation using proper technique and restraint. The "funding" isn't really an issue as most gyms offer a steep discount and even free training for LEOs. They just don't have the incentive.

[Farley1324]

I'll listen to actual LEOs I train with rather than an internet expert. No one said they need to be advanced in anything just continued. Even a blue belt will be far better equipped to handle any physical altercation using proper technique and restraint. The "funding" isn't really an issue as most gyms offer a steep discount and even free training for LEOs. They just don't have the incentive.

Funding is always an issue for requiring training of government employees.

Individual cops going to a gym to learn whatever the gym teaches is something they are welcome to do on their own time and dime, but that is very different from department wide mandatory and funded training.

What did the actual LEOs say that contradicts what I have said?