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  1. #181
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    Why the phuck can all these people protest in packs of 100's and 1,000's, and my phucking gym still can't phucking open-up yet?

    PHUCKING BULL$HIT!!!
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  2. #182
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    An independent autopsy into the death of George Floyd found that the unarmed black man died from "asphyxiation from sustained pressure," according to attorney Ben Crump.

    Floyd was essentially "dead on the scene" in Minneapolis on May 25, Crump said.
    "The ambulance was his hearse," the family's attorney told reporters Monday.
    The independent autopsy's findings come after the Hennepin County Medical Examiner found "no physical findings" to "support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation," according to the criminal complaint released by the Hennepin County Attorney's Office in the arrest of former Officer Derek Chauvin.
    Chauvin had his knee on Floyd's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in total and two minutes and 53 seconds after Floyd was unresponsive, the complaint says.
    Preliminary autopsy results cited in the complaint said combined effects of being restrained, any potential intoxicants in Floyd's system and his underlying health issues, including heart disease, probably contributed to his death. Toxicology results can take weeks.
    "George died because he needed a breath. He needed a breath of air," Crump said.
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  3. #183
    In Witness Protection mtpockets's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    Why the phuck can all these people protest in packs of 100's and 1,000's, and my phucking gym still can't phucking open-up yet?

    PHUCKING BULL$HIT!!!
    Those packs of 100's and 1000's may translate into your gym staying closed even phucking longer.
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  4. #184
    Registered User LWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    Those packs of 100's and 1000's may translate into your gym staying closed even phucking longer.

    No one is protesting near the gym, but they are in the state. It makes zero sense that the Governor could allow protesting but still keep a gym closed?

    Even the protesters from the virus, everyone was in cars, these phuckers are are literally walking outside.

    I know another gym owner in another state, he mentioned that after seeing a police station burn down, he is opening his gym and stated he'd throw any a$$hole who tried to stop out the window.

    He also made similar threats on FB, he said the Governor read the post and sent the state boys to his house for chat, that is how sick these democrat thinking Governors are.
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  5. #185
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    Why the phuck can all these people protest in packs of 100's and 1,000's, and my phucking gym still can't phucking open-up yet?

    PHUCKING BULL$HIT!!!
    A protest is not an ongoing commercial enterprise.
    I'm out, standing in my field.

    64 and still a newbie.
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  6. #186
    Registered User LWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ElrondHubbard View Post
    A protest is not an ongoing commercial enterprise.


    Hold on now one second!!!!! The AHOLE Governor from NY THREATENED to lock up people walking the street no SD'ing. AND HE ain't the only one? Now that there is anti-cop protests, the virus don't exist, UNLESS you own a business.

    It makes zero sense and you should know this!

    BTW, this gym is NOT a public gym anyway, he don't except anyone to be members, WTF????
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  7. #187
    Registered User LWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ElrondHubbard View Post
    A protest is not an ongoing commercial enterprise.

    Other commercial enterprises are still open???? As CRAZY Joe would say, COME'ON MAN?????

    I can't believe you are even trying to make logic out of it, I can see 7seconds trying too, sad stuff my man?
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  8. #188
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    No one is protesting near the gym, but they are in the state.
    The protests don't need to be near the gym. If those protesters end up spreading the Rona in a big way in the state, more lockdown time may be imposed..
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  9. #189
    Registered User LWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    The protests don't need to be near the gym. If those protesters end up spreading the Rona in a big way in the state, more lockdown time may be imposed..


    Now THAT is PHUCKING hilarious, you mean the government will just make some numbers up?

    Because it's been over a week since Memorial day when all those phuckers were still out and about partying, the available beds are higher than ever. They are going by beds here, not cases. Cases actually hit there lowest today since April.
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  10. #190
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    Now THAT is PHUCKING hilarious, you mean the government will just make some numbers up?

    Because it's been over a week since Memorial day when all those phuckers were still out and about partying, the available beds are higher than ever. They are going by beds here, not cases. Cases actually hit there lowest today since April.
    You in the sauce already?
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  11. #191
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    Other commercial enterprises are still open???? As CRAZY Joe would say, COME'ON MAN?????

    I can't believe you are even trying to make logic out of it, I can see 7seconds trying too, sad stuff my man?
    There's a logic to it, but it's probably not worth the trouble it would take to to deep dive through all the details. I'm not defending it, although in a way I am, because the US Constitution protects political dissent as a special case in the First Amendment. It doesn't mention gyms.

    It's up to local or state governments, I believe, to decide which businesses they will designate as "essential" during the pandemic. But regardless, protesting and going to the gym are not given the same legal status.
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  12. #192
    Registered User LWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ElrondHubbard View Post
    There's a logic to it, but it's probably not worth the trouble it would take to to deep dive through all the details. I'm not defending it, although in a way I am, because the US Constitution protects political dissent as a special case in the First Amendment. It doesn't mention gyms.

    It's up to local or state governments, I believe, to decide which businesses they will designate as "essential" during the pandemic. But regardless, protesting and going to the gym are not given the same legal status.


    I'm sure booze and cigs are essential because they bring in more taxes from the government, because that's what it is mostly about.

    No sauce MT, these are sobering thoughts, which make it worse than drunk thoughts.
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  13. #193
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    We have discussed this before, or maybe that was Mark, but Antifa can’t really be thought of in the strictly 2 party American system of liberals and conservatives, as not all political thought can be put into boxes corresponding to only those parties.

    Antifa is an umbrella term, not a specific, structured organisation with a leader and board of directors. There are many different ideologies. I, for example, am a minarchist/libertarian. However, other political philosophies like anarchism, socialism, communism, etc, are also found in the proverbial cocktail of philosiphies that make up the anti-fascist movement. Anti-fascism means different things to different people, but most who label themselves as such are hard core anticapitalists, and as such don't agree that people like me are antifascist at all, as I generally support the idea of private property, free markets, etc.

    I know this from actually spending the last 35 years talking with some of these people and exchanging ideas on political philosophies. And most of them despise Stalinists, so they aren't simply looking to replace the American state with a socialist one. Instead, these are the sort of people who run communal gardens while seeking alternative, horizontal structures that are community base. Read Kropotkin or Proudhon if you want to get a better idea of what I am talking about.


    The committed "Antifa," if you will, aren't simply kids who've picked-up on buzzwords or the useful idiot you think they are. They've been around for a while, some of them were in the Black Bloc since the 1990s, and they are well versed in their politics as much as any you will find. Don't believe me? Actually go seek out and talk to ones who aren't just rock throwers. Ask them what they want from society beyond superficial understanding of their ideology.

    BTW, anyone can be "Antifa" simply by declaring themselves committed to opposing fascism, an idea which has a history predating WW2.
    Declaring ANTIFA a terrorist group, The President just opened up their books, meetings, groups, movements, accounts, discussions, affiliations, income streams...damn near everything to federal surveillance and investigation. (Right or wrong about his decision is a different discussion.)

    You will see perp walks and indictments from this decision. How deep will it go in terms of accountability? I don't know. What I do know is that the media, Hollywood, and the majority of college professors will be almost entirely against the prosecution of these people. All of these aforementioned will decry the prosecutions as set up, or anti first amendment, or whatever else they can come up with to discredit the process.

    Put money on that.
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  14. #194
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    Originally Posted by KeepItMoving View Post
    Declaring ANTIFA a terrorist group, The President just opened up their books, meetings, groups, movements, accounts, discussions, affiliations, income streams...damn near everything to federal surveillance and investigation. (Right or wrong about his decision is a different discussion.)

    As I said earlier a big problem is it isn't clear that the Feds can designate a domestic group as terrorist without violating the 1st Amendment. Domestic groups engaging in potential protected speech require that you go through due process of law and actually convict them of something.

    Putting that all aside, as far as Antifa goes you can’t even label them a "group", much less a terrorist one. Antifa isn't an organization, it has no body, no leaders, no plan or charter, no structure of any kind. It's a hashtag, a description. If someone wants to make a protest against the rise of facism they believe is there, they are by definition making an antifa protest, and will likely use the label for visibility.

    It's in no way an organization you can arrest members of. You can arrest participants of specific protests who have used the name to describe their protest maybe and call them members, or you can just arrest whoever you want claiming they're a member for all it means.

    There's no structure to go after and attack. It doesn't have any.
    Last edited by 7Seconds; 06-01-2020 at 02:59 PM.
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  15. #195
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    It's not perfect and it's pretty dry and academic, but to anyone interested, Philosophy Tube has a video explaining and providing context for what Antifa is and what Antifa isn't, what kind of people join with Antifa, and what the movements goals are. Fair warning though, it's an hour long and due to the nature of Antifa it spends a decent length of time defining and explaining the nuances and aspects of Fascism, but it is a pretty comprehensive look. This is what you might expect a college lecture on the introduction of Antifacist Action might look like.







    ETA: here is a shorter primer on Antifa by Mark Bray, a historian at Dartmouth College and author of Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook.

    https://www.vox.com/2017/8/25/161890...resident-trump
    Last edited by 7Seconds; 06-01-2020 at 03:58 PM.
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    I am not defending anyone. I am simply against the idea in President Trump’s tweet. Doing so could lead to the same problem we have in Afghanistan, but on our own soil. Just fighting some idea - no way to tell who is actually antifa. It's not as if there's some uniform or membership statement. This can be used by the government to arrest literally anyone that disagrees with them and say they're "antifa terrorists". That's incredibly dangerous territory.
    There is a riot planned for S. Willow Street in Manchester NH tonight. Not a planned protest, a planned riot in the business district. Antifa is organizing the movement. They have a strong online presence and I fully believe there are individuals who are key players responsible.

    I'm happy with labeling them a terrorist group and a hate group, because that is what they are. I'm not suggesting the government arrest or detain anyone not committing a crime, I don't think that's the intention of the POTUS. I'll wait and see what actions he intends on beyond calling Antifa for what it is, organizers of terror and hate.

    I would watch the movie, but as you said, it's what you would read in college.... ie a leftist organization sympathetic to their cause. I balk at the expectation of watching propaganda veiled as something more academic.
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    There is a riot planned for S. Willow Street in Manchester NH tonight. Not a planned protest, a planned riot in the business district. Antifa is organizing the movement. They have a strong online presence and I fully believe there are individuals who are key players responsible.

    I'm happy with labeling them a terrorist group and a hate group, because that is what they are. I'm not suggesting the government arrest or detain anyone not committing a crime, I don't think that's the intention of the POTUS. I'll wait and see what actions he intends on beyond calling Antifa for what it is, organizers of terror and hate.

    I would watch the movie, but as you said, it's what you would read in college.... ie a leftist organization sympathetic to their cause. I balk at the expectation of watching propaganda veiled as something more academic.
    According to Twitter your riot is being planned for tomorrow night, although it seems it’s mainly based on people posting about a since deleted Facebook post; it didn’t really look like a typical call out account but who knows.

    Useful info below if you ever want to go.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/IGD_News
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    There is a riot planned for S. Willow Street in Manchester NH tonight. Not a planned protest, a planned riot in the business district. Antifa is organizing the movement. They have a strong online presence and I fully believe there are individuals who are key players responsible.

    I'm happy with labeling them a terrorist group and a hate group, because that is what they are. I'm not suggesting the government arrest or detain anyone not committing a crime, I don't think that's the intention of the POTUS. I'll wait and see what actions he intends on beyond calling Antifa for what it is, organizers of terror and hate.

    I would watch the movie, but as you said, it's what you would read in college.... ie a leftist organization sympathetic to their cause. I balk at the expectation of watching propaganda veiled as something more academic.
    It's nice to agree with you. It really is.

    As far as 7S's fine legal argument regarding the ability of our President to designate ANTIFA as a terrorist group, my thoughts are that he already has a legal opinion supporting his authority. Now, I'm just making an educated guess here, but my legal opinion is that it won't be overly difficult to establish international funding to the organization, for the purposes of terroristic activities, thereby being able to define the group (and yes, it's a defined group insofar as they have leaders, planners, organizers, information providers, and tactical experts) as an international terrorist organization. Additionally, Federal authority will be established by demonstrating interstate activities in furtherance of terrorism.
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    Just saw some images on TV, in Philli, police officers hugging protesters without masks and shaking hands.

    Now this is great and all, but I know a guy who owns a gym in that state who's gym is still closed-down by government for public health reasons.

    Public health, since when are cig shops, and liquor stores public health? And not to mention all these healthy riots, saw many get their skulls cracked open trying to protect their business, who was it that said we don't know what it's like to be black in America?

    And where is Como? He's got a problem with not SDing in public, but it's all over his city now, and he ain't doing or saying nothing cause he is afraid of the hoods, he can only pick on law abiding citizens.

    Looks were back to normal in NY, which he kept saying wasn't gonna happen, he seems to like this normal though?
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    Originally Posted by KeepItMoving View Post
    It's nice to agree with you. It really is.

    As far as 7S's fine legal argument regarding the ability of our President to designate ANTIFA as a terrorist group, my thoughts are that he already has a legal opinion supporting his authority. Now, I'm just making an educated guess here, but my legal opinion is that it won't be overly difficult to establish international funding to the organization, for the purposes of terroristic activities, thereby being able to define the group (and yes, it's a defined group insofar as they have leaders, planners, organizers, information providers, and tactical experts) as an international terrorist organization. Additionally, Federal authority will be established by demonstrating interstate activities in furtherance of terrorism.


    Saying antifa is an international organization with funding and support on a global scale is comparable to saying Islam is an international organization with funding and support on a global scale. I can point to Muslim sects, to Muslim organizations, but I cannot call Islam itself "an organization". It isn't.

    The fact that some Muslim sects conduct acts of terrorism renders you no more able to label Islam a "terrorist organization" as someone firebombing abortion clinics lets you label Christianity as "a terrorist organization".

    The existence of multiple groups that identify themselves as "antifa" in no way allows you to coherently label "antifa" itself "a terrorist organization".

    As I said above there may very well be some actual local groups of people who identify with the antifa movement and engage in the government definition of terrorism. Fine, I don’t agree with the idea of US citizens being designated as terrorists but at least label specific sects as terrorists because of their actions, not the ideology.

    Antifa is a decentralized movement, not a group. There is no central leadership, no membership, no way of knowing who is and who isn’t antifa. Any attempt to designate a decentralized movement as a terrorist group can result in the government abusing their powers to lock up dissent regardless of facts or reality.
    Last edited by 7Seconds; 06-02-2020 at 07:08 AM.
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    Saying antifa is an international organization with funding and support on a global scale is comparable to saying Islam is an international organization with funding and support on a global scale. I can point to Muslim sects, to Muslim organizations, but I cannot call Islam itself "an organization". It isn't.

    The fact that some Muslim sects conduct acts of terrorism renders you no more able to label Islam a "terrorist organization" as someone firebombing abortion clinics lets you label Christianity as "a terrorist organization".

    The existence of multiple groups that identify themselves as "antifa" in no way allows you to coherently label "antifa" itself "a terrorist organization".

    As I said above there may very well be some actual local groups of people who identify with the antifa movement and engage in the government definition of terrorism. Fine, I don’t agree with the idea of US citizens being designated as terrorists but at least label specific sects as terrorists because of their actions, not the ideology.

    Antifa is a decentralized movement, not a group. There is no central leadership, no membership, no way of knowing who is and who isn’t antifa. Any attempt to designate a decentralized movement as a terrorist group can result in the government abusing their powers to lock up dissent regardless of facts or reality.
    Sounds like you never heard of infiltration and undercover work? It took awhile but eventually exposed the leaders of the Mafia.

    Also sounds like you missed groups in your post such as Muslim Brotherhood?
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    As Biden would say, if you don’t think gyms are essential, then you don’t train, man!
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    Well it's a damn good thing they let those prisoners out due to covid19, so they can join the looters.

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    Floyd Mayweather will pay for George Floyd's funeral services


    "He'll probably get mad at me for saying that, but yes, [Mayweather] is definitely paying for the funeral," Leonard Ellerbe, the CEO of Mayweather Promotions, told ESPN on Monday.

    Ellerbe added that the former five-division world champion has been in touch with the family of Floyd, and the family has accepted the offer.

    "Floyd has done these kind of things over the last 20 years," said Ellerbe, who added that Mayweather didn't want to talk about his gesture.

    Mayweather previously stepped in to cover the funeral expenses of former boxer Genaro Hernandez, who died of cancer at age 45 in 2011. Mayweather won his first world title by defeating Hernandez in 1998.
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    Floyd Mayweather will pay for George Floyd's funeral services


    "He'll probably get mad at me for saying that, but yes, [Mayweather] is definitely paying for the funeral," Leonard Ellerbe, the CEO of Mayweather Promotions, told ESPN on Monday.

    Ellerbe added that the former five-division world champion has been in touch with the family of Floyd, and the family has accepted the offer.

    "Floyd has done these kind of things over the last 20 years," said Ellerbe, who added that Mayweather didn't want to talk about his gesture.

    Mayweather previously stepped in to cover the funeral expenses of former boxer Genaro Hernandez, who died of cancer at age 45 in 2011. Mayweather won his first world title by defeating Hernandez in 1998.
    It's so funny how they modestly never want to talk about the gesture but it always finds it's way to the public. It's a good way to have your cake and eat it too.
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    Always root for Jim Miller crew.
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    Sounds like you never heard of infiltration and undercover work? It took awhile but eventually exposed the leaders of the Mafia.

    Also sounds like you missed groups in your post such as Muslim Brotherhood?
    I am not sure I understand your point or perhaps you don’t understand mine. One of the core principles of antifascist action is that it is specific and local. This naturally makes large organizations with hierarchies unreasonable. Instead, antifascist action is done by individuals and small groups in response to specific events. That might mean protesting a far right speaker. It might mean infiltrating a white supremacist meeting up and outing the members to their bosses. It might mean handing out pamphlets.

    If you get together with some people and go out and engage in antifascist action you may be branded as antifa but you didn't get orders from a hierarchy, you don't report to some regional manager, and you don't get funding from a national organization.
    Last edited by 7Seconds; 06-02-2020 at 10:22 AM.
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    I am not sure I understand your point or perhaps you don’t understand mine. One of the core principles of antifascist action is that it is specific and local. This naturally makes large organizations with hierarchies unreasonable. Instead, antifascist action is done by individuals and small groups in response to specific events. That might mean protesting a far right speaker. It might mean infiltrating a white supremacist meeting up and outing the members to their bosses. It might mean handing out pamphlets.

    If you get together with some people and go out and engage in antifascist action you may be branded as antifa but you didn't get orders from a hierarchy, you don't report to some regional manager, and you don't get funding from a national organization.
    There is an organized bunch looting, they may or may not hit the liquar stores but they are strategically looting merch and I bet they are selling it on black market, if they are all acting on
    Their own in groups, that won’t last, they will end up killing each other, if that’s true there will be a chain of command established but it may already be established.
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    This really saddened me




    This really made me happy

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1267794731116855298
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    There is an organized bunch looting, they may or may not hit the liquar stores but they are strategically looting merch and I bet they are selling it on black market, if they are all acting on
    Their own in groups, that won’t last, they will end up killing each other, if that’s true there will be a chain of command established but it may already be established.

    You have some interesting and very specific theories, are you accusing antifa being responsible for the looting and destruction? Are all rioters antifa?




    But back to the topic, even if my opinion is a bit mixed on antifa, as I have had good and bad interactions with people in the movement, giving antifa a blanket designation as a terrorist organization is a bad precedent. ⁠

    Yes, cities have specific antifa "groups," but they're still not organized. They don't have leaders. Or mission statements. Or funding. Antifa is "organized" in the same way open online forums are "organized". They share common interests, but the closest they get to shot callers or leaders of local groups is that some people are just more popular than others. There are individual antifascist websites run by individual antifascist activists. But there’s no antifa website. They are not organized or centralized. Most of the antifa “groups” you will find online will be fake websites set up by right wing trolls. The most you will usually find on an actual antifascist website is blog posts. If you go to twitter you will find individual activists engaging in cyber activism, which is the bulk of what anti-fascist activists do. Boycotting, calling employers, etc.

    Again, I am totally against the idea of designating US citizens as terrorists but if you want to target antifa for terrorist activity, the most you should do is use it as a starting point to find leads and start tugging at loose threads. Maybe you do find local groups who identify as antifa, involved in what the government defines as terrorist activity but that does not mean antifa is a terrorist organization.

    If we let antifa be labeled as terrorists, it sets a precedent where if a community contains those kinds of people, the community as a whole can be targeted. Take the boogaloo crowd: most of them don't actually want to start a conflict as far as I can tell. Now suppose that a faction within that group decides to start actually attacking people. If you have been in a community that these people really take a fancy to then congratulations: you are now a terrorist.
    Last edited by 7Seconds; 06-02-2020 at 11:43 AM.
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