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  1. #61
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    Originally Posted by Jtbny View Post
    I'll listen to actual LEOs I train with rather than an internet expert. No one said they need to be advanced in anything just continued. Even a blue belt will be far better equipped to handle any physical altercation using proper technique and restraint. The "funding" isn't really an issue as most gyms offer a steep discount and even free training for LEOs. They just don't have the incentive.
    Funding is always an issue for requiring training of government employees.

    Individual cops going to a gym to learn whatever the gym teaches is something they are welcome to do on their own time and dime, but that is very different from department wide mandatory and funded training.

    What did the actual LEOs say that contradicts what I have said?
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  2. #62
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    A murderer lives here': Protesters scrawl graffiti outside the home of white cop Derek Chauvin who knelt on George Floyd's neck for eight minutes until he passed out and later died










    I think he best get the fuk out of Dodge or face street justice
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    Invent the thought police and scan everybody's brainwaves as they show up to gauge their propensity for violence and destruction. If they are judged too risky, remove them.
    Best way to do that is to let them post on the Misc.
    I'm out, standing in my field.

    64 and still a newbie.
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  4. #64
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    Originally Posted by ElrondHubbard View Post
    Best way to do that is to let them post on the Misc.
    I'd wager FB is a little more efficient, but, yeah
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  5. #65
    Last otter standing Jtbny's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    Funding is always an issue for requiring training of government employees.

    Individual cops going to a gym to learn whatever the gym teaches is something they are welcome to do on their own time and dime, but that is very different from department wide mandatory and funded training.

    What did the actual LEOs say that contradicts what I have said?
    You're attempting to argue against it's importance when all the LEOs I train w/think it SHOULD be mandatory. I said they should only advance that skill not be advanced and would really only need to chose one type (Judo, BJJ ect). There's obviously SOP for dealing with situations which I'd imagine talks about force. The problem is (like I tried to illustrate w/my reply to LWW ) is that knowing how and how much is a "skill" taught not just instinct (in general).

    As for "on their own dime and time", again, this can be mandated and applied towards continuing education (think teachers). FTR, it can also be baked into their day as doing 1hr 4 days a week is plenty. I know many professionals who use their lunch break to train. I've addressed the funding issue but I also know it's not ALL gyms who offer free or deep discounted rates for LEO's. Lastly on funding, we sure can find enough funds to play in the sandbox for decades I'm sure we could find some to properly train our police force.

    Again, all I'm advocating is for continuing education beyond academy skills - just like required range time and weapon certification (which varies by agency).

    So what are you advocating? Just more classroom time saying "don't use excessive force" and watching some training videos on what excessive force is? What is your actual suggestion other than throwing your hands up when the "policy" isn't followed? Educate me.
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    I bet he may be doing another type of Quarantine.... until he is arrested.

    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    A murderer lives here': Protesters scrawl graffiti outside the home of white cop Derek Chauvin who knelt on George Floyd's neck for eight minutes until he passed out and later died










    I think he best get the fuk out of Dodge or face street justice
    sums it up a thread will start off promising and then turn into name calling..
    The easiest way to tell when an argument has no merit is when the protagonist mixes in some personal insults.
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  7. #67
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    Access denied, deleted most of my reply...forum sucks


    Originally Posted by Jtbny View Post
    So what are you advocating? Just more classroom time saying "don't use excessive force" and watching some training videos on what excessive force is? What is your actual suggestion other than throwing your hands up when the "policy" isn't followed? Educate me.
    Great question!

    When the policy isn't followed, you hold them accountable as individuals. Very simple. Change the entire 'qualified immunity' shenanigans. Come down with the full weight of the law when and where it is called for.

    For example, the Daniel Shaver incident did not see appropriate follow up. That was murder or at least manslaughter of some degree.

    For example, push the investigation in this case and go to criminal trial. This is murder or at least manslaughter of some degree.

    For example, when a no knock raid on the wrong house is conducted out of uniform in the middle of the night and the cops shoot and kill an innocent person in the house, that is murder or at least manslaughter of some degree.

    Hold them accountable for these actions and the rest of the cops out there will take notice and put more thought into WTF they do
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  8. #68
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    Seen some accounts of a looter being shot and killed by a pawn shop owner, haven't seen any reliable sources reporting it yet.
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  9. #69
    Registered User x-trainer ben's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    Seen some accounts of a looter being shot and killed by a pawn shop owner, haven't seen any reliable sources reporting it yet.
    https://www.fox9.com/live
    sums it up a thread will start off promising and then turn into name calling..
    The easiest way to tell when an argument has no merit is when the protagonist mixes in some personal insults.
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  10. #70
    We know lol Farley1324's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    talking about open windows meaning you don't need to use a lot of air conditioning because of the low dew point
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  11. #71
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    talking about open windows meaning you don't need to use a lot of air conditioning because of the low dew point
    It is a live broadcast, eventually it will be covered.
    sums it up a thread will start off promising and then turn into name calling..
    The easiest way to tell when an argument has no merit is when the protagonist mixes in some personal insults.
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  12. #72
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    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    Thanks ben,

    Man those fires are something else, talking about bringing in the National Guard now.
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  13. #73
    Last otter standing Jtbny's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    Access denied, deleted most of my reply...forum sucks




    Great question!

    When the policy isn't followed, you hold them accountable as individuals. Very simple. Change the entire 'qualified immunity' shenanigans. Come down with the full weight of the law when and where it is called for.

    For example, the Daniel Shaver incident did not see appropriate follow up. That was murder or at least manslaughter of some degree.

    For example, push the investigation in this case and go to criminal trial. This is murder or at least manslaughter of some degree.

    For example, when a no knock raid on the wrong house is conducted out of uniform in the middle of the night and the cops shoot and kill an innocent person in the house, that is murder or at least manslaughter of some degree.

    Hold them accountable for these actions and the rest of the cops out there will take notice and put more thought into WTF they do
    So reactive instead of proactive?
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  14. #74
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    Originally Posted by Jtbny View Post
    So reactive instead of proactive?
    Question:
    So what are you advocating? Just more classroom time saying "don't use excessive force" and watching some training videos on what excessive force is? What is your actual suggestion other than throwing your hands up when the "policy" isn't followed? Educate me.

    Answer:
    Hold them accountable (for real, not like we have)


    Do you have a better idea on how to proactively keep everybody in the country from breaking their employer's policies?
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  15. #75
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    I think it's bs that people are trying to make this a race issue, it's an issue of having @sshole cops who act like thugs & will do that exact same thing against people of any color. Its not about training in various martial arts either, this guy George was already handcuffed and had at 1 point 3 cops holding him down which once again is just @ssholes being what they are. I guarantee the upper echelon in that police department knew these individuals were over zealous wannabe Rambo @ssholes and nobody ever said or did anything to weed them out of the department. Far too many cops have that fukked up mentality of being "the man" and as Cartman said you will "respect my authority". This needs to be reigned in & cops shouldn't have carte blanche to pretty much do and say anything they want.
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    Question:
    So what are you advocating? Just more classroom time saying "don't use excessive force" and watching some training videos on what excessive force is? What is your actual suggestion other than throwing your hands up when the "policy" isn't followed? Educate me.

    Answer:
    Hold them accountable (for real, not like we have)


    Do you have a better idea on how to proactively keep everybody in the country from breaking their employer's policies?
    I'm not the one saying that's the only solution. I think you can be both proactive and reactive. You seem to be arguing against that. I'm arguing for continued training being mandatory, or at the very least, tied to compensation. It goes w/o saying despite any training individuals will break from policy or best practices and of course hold them accountable. However, if one is trained on how and how much force is needed to apprehend and control an individual I'm willing to bet these type of incidences will decline.
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    Originally Posted by Jtbny View Post
    I'm not the one saying that's the only solution. I think you can be both proactive and reactive. You seem to be arguing against that. I'm arguing for continued training being mandatory, or at the very least, tied to compensation. It goes w/o saying despite any training individuals will break from policy or best practices and of course hold them accountable. However, if one is trained on how and how much force is needed to apprehend and control an individual I'm willing to bet these type of incidences will decline.
    I guarantee those cops already had that training and knew damn well they didn't need 3 dudes on him with a blood choke for 7 minutes. This isn't an ignorance problem
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    No rocks thrown, no windows broken, no fires started, nothing stolen, nobody attacked, litter cleaned up when they left

    At least 20,000 people and probably more guns than people



    Just don't let their team win a sports championship... You would see some broken windows and stuff.
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    Originally Posted by quicksand jesus View Post
    Just don't let their team win a sports championship... You would see some broken windows and stuff.
    Probably nobody in attendance there cares about sportsball at all lol
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    A murderer lives here': Protesters scrawl graffiti outside the home of white cop Derek Chauvin who knelt on George Floyd's neck for eight minutes until he passed out and later died










    I think he best get the fuk out of Dodge or face street justice



    They won't hurt him physically, not hurting him allows for the cowards to loot and riot and perhaps pull out a truck driver and throw a brick at his head. They prefer the coward approach.
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    They won't hurt him physically, not hurting him allows for the cowards to loot and riot and perhaps pull out a truck driver and throw a brick at his head. They prefer the coward approach.
    Who are They?
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    Originally Posted by Corbi View Post
    I think it's bs that people are trying to make this a race issue, it's an issue of having @sshole cops who act like thugs & will do that exact same thing against people of any color. Its not about training in various martial arts either, this guy George was already handcuffed and had at 1 point 3 cops holding him down which once again is just @ssholes being what they are. I guarantee the upper echelon in that police department knew these individuals were over zealous wannabe Rambo @ssholes and nobody ever said or did anything to weed them out of the department. Far too many cops have that fukked up mentality of being "the man" and as Cartman said you will "respect my authority". This needs to be reigned in & cops shouldn't have carte blanche to pretty much do and say anything they want.
    Corbi when you hear about a story like this before seeing it, who do you think is involved? I know who I think and it is, it is always the same dynamic and characters. Never do I see a Chinese guy or an Indian guy or a Middle Eastern guy, or a Jewish guy having this happen to them ; and you can't tell me that they are all perfect upstanding citizens who never engage in any type of wrongdoing.
    Maybe it was because this guy was 6 ft 7 and the cops were scared, but there is an obvious pattern since I have been following incidents like this.
    Let's remove the word race and try and figure out what else the cops are focusing in on. Is it tall guys, dark guys, fake 20 dollar bill guys, we can figure it out.
    It is 2020 and we can do way better than this.
    Last edited by x-trainer ben; 05-28-2020 at 02:08 PM.
    sums it up a thread will start off promising and then turn into name calling..
    The easiest way to tell when an argument has no merit is when the protagonist mixes in some personal insults.
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    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    Corbi when you hear about a story like this before seeing it, who do you think is involved?
    If you pay attention, you'll pick up cues and clues based on who it is telling the story and how they are telling it.

    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    I know who I think and it is always the same dynamic and characters. Never do I see a Chinese guy or an Indian guy or a Middle Eastern guy, or a Jewish guy having this happen to them ; and you can't tell me that they are all perfect upstanding citizens who never engage in any type of wrongdoing.
    Maybe it was because this guy was 6 ft 7 and the cops were scared, but there is an obvious pattern since I have been following incidents like this.
    Let's remove the word race and try and figure out what else the cops are focusing in on. Is it tall guys, dark guys, fake 20 dollar bill guys, we can figure it out.
    It is 2020 and we can do way better than this.
    Which one explains Daniel Shaver?
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    who are they?

    lol

    "They Live", Starring Hot Rod Piper.
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    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    Corbi when you hear about a story like this before seeing it, who do you think is involved? I know who I think and it is always the same dynamic and characters. Never do I see a Chinese guy or an Indian guy or a Middle Eastern guy, or a Jewish guy having this happen to them ; and you can't tell me that they are all perfect upstanding citizens who never engage in any type of wrongdoing.
    Maybe it was because this guy was 6 ft 7 and the cops were scared, but there is an obvious pattern since I have been following incidents like this.
    Let's remove the word race and try and figure out what else the cops are focusing in on. Is it tall guys, dark guys, fake 20 dollar bill guys, we can figure it out.
    It is 2020 and we can do way better than this.


    Perhaps the media won't show you those scenarios?

    There is racism in this country for sure, I can point out several areas within 20 minutes where I live, that I can't walk down because I'm white. They are dangerous streets for any race, but unless a white person is there in a car to buy dope, they best get out or get an ass whipping, and the skin color will be verbalized to you while getting the beat down. I've known more than one person foolishly get stranded and having to pass through those areas, get the beat down.
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    I guarantee those cops already had that training and knew damn well they didn't need 3 dudes on him with a blood choke for 7 minutes. This isn't an ignorance problem
    What training? Policy training? Great now we get to be reactive.
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    Originally Posted by Jtbny View Post
    What training? Policy training? Great now we get to be reactive.
    Training in how to safely and effectively detain a suspect who is in handcuffs.

    Do you suggest we arrest people for the crimes they are going to commit in the future?
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    Training in how to safely and effectively detain a suspect who is in handcuffs.

    Do you suggest we arrest people for the crimes they are going to commit in the future?
    So when you can't defend your point you move the goal post?
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    Originally Posted by Jtbny View Post
    So when you can't defend your point you move the goal post?
    Not what happened but whatever helps you to claim
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    Not what happened but whatever helps you to claim
    Yes, it is and I'm not the one trying to "win" an argument here. I stated my opinion and my arguments to your points. You ignore them, move the goalposts, and attempt to argue things I never said or suggested /shrug
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