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  1. #1
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    Naturally Aspirated Engines (Screamers) Are a Dying Breed

    With the new world upon us gear heads. It makes one wonder about future values of cars stuffed with a naturally aspirated engine.

    In my opinion, cars with a screamer NA engine will retain value and possible even appreciate in the coming years. Similar to what air-cooled Porsche's are/were pulling. A great modern example would be a 997 or 991.1 Porsche 911 (especially in GT3 format).

    Another favorite of mine would be the Honda S2000. Have you seen the prices on these things? Beat up, poor examples going for 12K+ with clean examples still selling for 20-30K+. Honda makes other great screaming engines but the S2K is $$$

    I have to also give it to Lamborghini for staying true to the NA engine. The Huracan and Aventador while not the fastest, are truly a joy to drive.

    The whole motion of everything going TURBO or ELECTRIC is cool, quick, and fun but leaves much to be desired. Almost everything turbo has the same old monotone noise and electric cars are like driving a washing machine.. An appliance.

    It's not about about being the fastest, it's about the EXPERIENCE you have when you drive. Human sensory. Sound, smell, touch. Turbo/Electric can never replicate a screaming engine with exhaust sounds echoing and ricocheting off the metals.

    What do you guys think? I'd like to hear some opinions. There are several other honorable mentions I've left out. Feel free to add on.
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    Originally Posted by luckyboy23 View Post
    With the new world upon us gear heads. It makes one wonder about future values of cars stuffed with a naturally aspirated engine.

    In my opinion, cars with a screamer NA engine will retain value and possible even appreciate in the coming years. Similar to what air-cooled Porsche's are/were pulling. A great modern example would be a 997 or 991.1 Porsche 911 (especially in GT3 format).

    Another favorite of mine would be the Honda S2000. Have you seen the prices on these things? Beat up, poor examples going for 12K+ with clean examples still selling for 20-30K+. Honda makes other great screaming engines but the S2K is $$$

    I have to also give it to Lamborghini for staying true to the NA engine. The Huracan and Aventador while not the fastest, are truly a joy to drive.

    The whole motion of everything going TURBO or ELECTRIC is cool, quick, and fun but leaves much to be desired. Almost everything turbo has the same old monotone noise and electric cars are like driving a washing machine.. An appliance.

    It's not about about being the fastest, it's about the EXPERIENCE you have when you drive. Human sensory. Sound, smell, touch. Turbo/Electric can never replicate a screaming engine with exhaust sounds echoing and ricocheting off the metals.

    What do you guys think? I'd like to hear some opinions. There are several other honorable mentions I've left out. Feel free to add on.
    Bolded I wholly agree with and bolded/italicized I agree with beyond wholly. I want my car to shake when it cranks. I don't want it to whine.
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    Originally Posted by luckyboy23 View Post
    It's not about about being the fastest, it's about the EXPERIENCE you have when you drive. Human sensory. Sound, smell, touch. Turbo/Electric can never replicate a screaming engine with exhaust sounds echoing and ricocheting off the metals.
    So true. One of the most fun cars to drive was the 80's to early 90 Mustangs.... the Five point oh. Yes, they can be made fast easily but stock they are slow in todays standards but hold hell are they fun. You hit the gas, back drops front comes up to an angle and it pins you to the back of the seat, steering becomes light and just feels amazing as you hang on for dear life. When you did make them actually fast it has something else. I have driven much faster cars and while some of them were fun it wasn't near the same. If you have a car that can take a corner at 80mph like it was doing 30mph then it doesn't feel much different than going 80mph around t he corner than it does if you were doing 30mph, so what fun is there in that except everything is happening faster. It's more about bragging rights and impressing others in a lot of ways. At work I've driven some 1000hp+ GTR's and although I never really got in it, I was a bit dissappointed although they do make many aspects of that car very raw which helps, but it's not quite what I expected. One of the first cars I ever drove was my uncles 1967 Chevy Malibu (basically a Chevelle, same body) with a big block, high compression engine. MADE THE EARTH SHAKE around it. Solid motor mounts, you could feel every cylinder in the engine moving. Even casually accelerating to 25mph and cruising slow was a blood boiling experience. Oh and nothing sounds quite like a 4bbl carb opening up the secondaries.

    A Tesla Model X came in on trade and everyone wanted to drive it. Yeah it was a cool car, and acclerated something crazy fast, almost odd when something moves like that without sound, but after you get used to it, it's just meh. Seemed everyone wanted to drive it once, but nobody was anxious to drive it again.
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    You forgot to mention the NSX! Mine has doubled in value since I purchased it nearly 15 years ago!

    I have two turbo cars, but I still would take the NSX over them.
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    Originally Posted by Podunks View Post
    Why are you lumping turbo'd cars in with electric vehicles when talking about sensory experiences and fun? Some turbo'd cars sound lackluster compared to their NA counterparts (488 vs 458), but other's still sound perfectly visceral (AMG GT line, RS7, TTRS, etc).
    I have heard some nasty sounding turbo cars albeit modded with big turbines and external wastegates.. Definitely beastly sounding.

    While I do agree with those cars you mentioned sounding good, they still carry that monotone sound throughout the rev range. You never really hear those engine sing whereas in an NA counterpart you can actually hear the difference in noise/resonance from 7400-7500-7600-8500-9000 RPM etc. You don't hear that in an AMG GT, RS7, TTRS.. What you hear is the same noise from 2krpm-redline for example. They just get louder. That's not a knock on those machines either. The modern V8 TT cars have a beautiful rumble with some synthetic burbles/overrun. They have their time and place with me but they wouldn't be my first choice.

    Imagine what a new 911 Speedster sounds like screaming at 9k rpm with the top down, heck I'll even call for a TT gallardo 6 speed with no roof. HNNNNG!

    I've been blessed to own a few high end cars, including exotics. Driven lots of other faster modern cars. Something which blew me away was a 2013 Boxster S cabriolet.. I thought the car was GAY and it quickly changed my opinion. The sound was simply intoxicating. I was even impressed by a modern 5.0 mustang GT.

    At this point I guess I'm talking to myself... I don't like corvettes and I think they're cheap... But anytime I drive one I have a grin on my face. GM gets the sound right!
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    Registered User MikeLowrrrey's Avatar
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    I think we still got a little ways to go before they actually become extinct. Something like 20 years. And when they do there's still the used car market. The American big 3 cranks a ton of V8s, so they'll be plenty where prices will remain low. Unless the highschool crowd gets their hands on em.

    Used German cars are the only vehicles I wouldn't trust, though W204 C63 is said to be bullet proof.
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    Originally Posted by MikeLowrrrey View Post
    I think we still got a little ways to go before they actually become extinct. Something like 20 years. And when they do there's still the used car market. The American big 3 cranks a ton of V8s, so they'll be plenty where prices will remain low. Unless the highschool crowd gets their hands on em.

    Used German cars are the only vehicles I wouldn't trust, though W204 C63 is said to be bullet proof.
    I sure hope so, but I do see these cars demanding a huge premium in the used car market going forward.

    Is Audi still on pace to have the full electric lineup by 2024? Last I heard it was which means bye bye V10 R8.
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    Originally Posted by Podunks View Post
    It honestly sounds like you just like high revving/high pitched engines like v10/12s, and flat plane crank v8s, the turbos have little to do with that. The cars I listed absolutely have a variation of tone throughout the RPM range, but because it's not the high pitch wailing you prefer, you don't like it. I own one of these cars, and literally spend my weekends around everything from Vettes to Huayras, so I'm very familiar with their exhaust notes/tones.

    It seems that the thread is really just about how you don't like cars that don't have high pitched/screaming exhaust notes.
    That's not necessarily true. I like anything motorsport related. I have different tastes and just decided to make a thread for NA engines to show appreciation.

    A great example I can give you:

    I purchased a 2017 911 Carrera (3.0), traded for a 2017 911 Turbo. Cobb tuned, exhaust. Neck snapping fast. The Carrera RWD pulled a 2.95 0-60 via dragy (modded).

    Bro's car was a 2013 Carrera 4S. Had no torque. NA engine and much more enjoyable in the canyons and streets. 12.5 1/4 mile and the other two were in the 10's.. The 12 second car was more fun on the street! In both turbo variations 3.0, and 3.8 I would be driving triple digit speeds before I knew it.. Not so fun on the streets unless you're risking a massive citation.

    I get the new TT cars, I truly do and I have a spot for them. It's just that due to cafe standards, big business, and insurance companies we are seeing a recession motorsport engines (mass produced vehicles).

    Remember when the M5 had the V10 and everything beneath it had a 6 cyl or 8 cyl? Those days are gone, it's all 4.4 TT V8 or some crappy 4 cyl turbo variant. Remember those screamer AMG engines? Gone.

    How about the BMW M4 with that horrible sounding tinny exhaust? 3.0 turbo and it sounds really bad. I rented one last week and it sounded ricey. E46 and especially E92 were a blast in the canyons.. M4 not so much.

    Honda made incredible 4 cyl screamers which are now replaced with souless turbo engines.

    Point is that everything has a turbo in it now. They're not as cool as they were in the 90's and early 00's.

    Nowadays cars are blistering fast. I truly like them, but all you seem to get is a whoosh of big torque and mediocre to decent sound unless you start heavily modding.
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    Originally Posted by Podunks View Post
    I guess it just boils down to individual application and preference. I can't stand high pitched exhaust notes, so it's actually a benefit imo. I much prefer the note from a cross plane crank V8, AMG GT, RS7, TTRS, etc, to that of an Aventador, 458, 812, and Porsches all sound like absolute butt chunks to me, no matter how modded. Low, guttural, grumble over sport bike like scream for me.
    Really? Even a modern 4.0 GT3? I love Aventador, F12 (hnnnng), huracan (performante hnngg) etc.. 458 does sound a little monotone to me for some reason when I drove one. Mainly when you're on it all the time.

    Besides this thread, I would still most definitely own an RS7, TTRS, and maybe an AMG GT (fast, rented one, but something about it is off to me). I'd love a 720s or a 675 too. I'd still love me a Urus or Cayenne TT (13-18).

    Do you watch any of dragtimes videos? The 720 is a great example of blistering fast but poor sound.

    Now of course there are pros and cons to everything.. There's a huge lack of torque in NA engines while anything TT will just sail away like a breeze.
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    Old Moto still stands true. No replacement for displacement.

    On the flip side of NA engines performance is reliability and cost to repair. Got me a non turbo Lexus for daily driving.

    Interesting enough Toyota and Honda the king's of reliability holding out on non turbo engines the longest.
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    A lot of modern turbos come with quirks that don't make them too enjoyable, like boost dying off before redline, not being in boost at appropriate time, etc. I think these issues make the NA cars that much more enjoyable. Vtec is fun S2000, NSX, Civic Si/R

    where i'm from s2000's can go for more than they were brand new with 200,000 km. it's ridiculous but understandable why they're holding their value. A true feat of automotive engineering. To say nothing of the NSX
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    A lot of modern turbos come with quirks that don't make them too enjoyable, like boost dying off before redline, not being in boost at appropriate time, etc. I think these issues make the NA cars that much more enjoyable. Vtec is fun S2000, NSX, Civic Si/R

    where i'm from s2000's can go for more than they were brand new with 200,000 km. it's ridiculous but understandable why they're holding their value. A true feat of automotive engineering. To say nothing of the NSX
    Ah yes, turbo lag. It's always there no matter what. ECU tuning, and intake/exhaust plumbing can only help so much to minimize it but it's always there.

    It's a great visceral feeling when the throttle plate snaps open and off you go in an instant.
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    Originally Posted by Podunks View Post


    This is also false, especially as it pertains to the bi/twin turbo and tri turbo cars. They almost always have instant torque.
    They do have fast, instant torque but is never simultaneous with throttle input.

    Give it throttle (full works best) under your engines optimal rev range and you'll find it there. Especially in higher gears. A great example again is the 720 which has 80's/90's style turbo lag. The delay is always there whether it's 1 second or .1 second. It's always enough for me to feel it.

    Another way of testing this out as Tamorlane mentioned is giving it the beans near redline. Not much happens and it kill the excitement until you have a gear change.

    Turbo lag is essentially one of the main reasons why NA cars have the fastest nurburging ring lap times. Every ms counts, especially at high RPMS where peak power is made. A snappy NA engine will propel you faster at the top of it's respective gear. Especially during high speed cornering.

    Turbo lag is always being improved as tech advances though. There is anti lag tuning out there but that's more for show. Both of my past 911's had features where the turbos would stay spooled at 1-2 PSI ready for take off in sport + mode. A great feature to erase the lag BUT it's still there. Look for the next iterations to be TT and electric powered. See new NSX and the next 911 Turbo refresh (2022-2023 992.2) where it's been announced that the new smaller 8 speed PDK has room for an electric motor.
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    Originally Posted by Podunks View Post
    No, it really doesn't have turbo lag... Thanks to the hot v setup, and them being smaller turbos, it's literally instant, and due to the DCT it's always in the right gear.

    Also, the GT2 RS, 918 Spyder, 488 Pista, GTR Pro, and 720S, are top ring lappers and are not NA...

    I'm starting to think that you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about. And Tamorlane is talking about chit boxes, not high performance sports/super cars.
    To me, motorsport is motorsport whether you're talking ATV's or Hypercars. If you can't enjoy those "chit boxes" then you are not a true car guy/gearhead/instert cliche name.

    If you want to start picking each others brains out, that's okay with me. If you want to think that I don't have a clue, I guess I can think that you're insecure about your decision in what you drive because you can't let an NA appreciation thread run it's course.

    Let's talk then.

    918 Spyder does not have turbochargers. It sounds incredible. So does it's predecessor, the Carrera GT. Those two machines are the pinnacle of Porsche engineering. Neither have turbochargers. For that matter, neither does a La Ferrari or Enzo. Both pinnacles of Ferrari Engineering.

    The 918, with all it's sorcery is bested by a cheaper Lamborghini Hurcan Performante which has one engine to the 918's three! The Hurcan Performante has no turbochargers. Lap time: 6:52 to the 918's 6:57... Remember, the 918 has an NA powerplant which you grouped with a bunch of turbocharged cars.

    488 Pista.. Cannot break 6 minute barrier. Psst! There's a cheaper Lamborghini without turbochargers besting that...

    GTR Pro.. 7:04.632... With all that extra HP and Torque from those badass turbochargers.

    Porsche 911 GT3 RS.. 4.0 Naturally Aspirated engine...SIX MINUTES and FIFTY SIX seconds!! 6:56. Faster than everything mentioned above other than the Performante and GT2 RS.

    The GT2 RS is practically a GT3 RS with twin turbos adding gobs of extra HP/TQ. The 3RS is so much more fun to drive, and it sounds better.

    Of course, the GT2 RS is bested by the fat pig which is an Aventador SVJ which does not have turbochargers.

    I won't even mention Mclaren. Fast but no bueno. They're purely for bragging rights ATM.

    I don't think you're able to grasp the topic of this thread. In no way shape or form am I hating on turbo cars yet you insist on telling me I'm wrong.

    Chillax dude.
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    Originally Posted by Podunks View Post
    I'm not the one writing essays here. I just pointed out that you are factually wrong regarding your silly statements.
    Heh, trolling or what? I just proved to you with facts (lap times) that I was correct and you were wrong about the sentiment that turbo cars have the fastest lap times. Most of the NA ones do and the fastest one is NA.
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    Originally Posted by Podunks View Post
    You're either extremely dense, or a master at moving the goal posts.
    You can't appreciate a screaming NA engine because you're heavily invested in something turbo.. I'm guessing it's the Merc. Which makes you a poseur.

    Let me know when you're done blindly labeling me and are ready to have a real car talk. This all honestly seems like a bait though.
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    Fuk BLM luckyboy23's Avatar
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    Yeah, you too.
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    Even though power adders have their place, given the option of a 500hp NA vs. 500hp turbo witch one would you pick?

    Brb; gimmie the 500hp NA motor and slap a turbo on it.
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    Fuk BLM luckyboy23's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DarthCholo View Post
    Even though power adders have their place, given the option of a 500hp NA vs. 500hp turbo witch one would you pick?

    Brb; gimmie the 500hp NA motor and slap a turbo on it.
    Hnnng! Slapping turbo's onto an NA car is the ultimate wet dream.
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    I like NA I4 rev monsters, the 14-16,000rpm kind. Ill never sell my R6
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    Corvette Z06 with the high-revving 5.5L sounds like it will be coming.
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    Originally Posted by Podunks View Post
    Am sad for this, I've heard the clips of the C8.R, and hate it when compared to the C7.R, sounds like a gnat buzzing around my head.
    I'm sure the commercial exhaust will be different and a good thing with the corvette will be the aftermarket support.
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    RN and vette crew 1QWIK7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ten_Hearts View Post
    Corvette Z06 with the high-revving 5.5L sounds like it will be coming.
    Finally something in this thread that catches my interest lol. It took long enough.

    Yes i can't wait for the 5.5 DOHC monster engine. With or without FI it's going to be insane.

    The pushrod V8 in the stingray, although sounds incredible, as all small block GM engines do, it sounds funny in a car like that.

    The "ferrari" like engine note in a C8 Z06 fits just right. Supercar looks, supercar performance, now backed up by the supercar sounds.

    The C7 Z06 was almost there. C8 Z06 is there.
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    Originally Posted by Podunks View Post
    I'll just wait for the Zora, which is rumored to have the good ole cross plane crank, and will spank the Z06.
    What's your location?
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    Originally Posted by Podunks View Post
    Am sad for this, I've heard the clips of the C8.R, and hate it when compared to the C7.R, sounds like a gnat buzzing around my head.

    C7.R:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz5JoGJaHMY
    Anyone who has heard the C7R in person will agree with you on this one. All the lower displacement engines in other cars buzzing by and then the deafening roar of the Corvette. At least we're lucky to have lived it because those times are gone.
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    supercharged engines are just as good. id recommend a charger hellcat for certain folks
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    Originally Posted by Punchaholic View Post
    supercharged engines are just as good. id recommend a charger hellcat for certain folks
    This.

    There's not much PROPER NA engines available anymore. The 6.4 from dodge is damn good though.

    I can't wait for GM's 5.5 flat plane. Chit will be uhhhh maazzzzeee zinnggg!!!!

    Supercar status now!
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    I honestly don't care much whether the engine is natty or not. As long as it can hold together and propel me fast enough. I will say, however, that for a track/race car I prefer naturally aspirated, because of reliability.

    I've owned boosted cars and my last 4 cars were all natty, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't think about boosting them too. I recently bought an S2000 and I'd love to boost it if I decide to keep it long term.
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    RN and vette crew 1QWIK7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 1QWIK7 View Post
    This.

    There's not much PROPER NA engines available anymore. The 6.4 from dodge is damn good though.

    I can't wait for GM's 5.5 flat plane. Chit will be uhhhh maazzzzeee zinnggg!!!!

    Supercar status now!

    I knew it would be amazing. The spy video demonstrates the new z06 will now sound like a ferrari lol.

    Thank you GM!
    Schooling everyone that has to do with automotive one brah at a time. It's tiring but someone gotta do it lol


    I have a manual car but auto IS WAY BETTER THESE DAYS. ACCEPT THE FACTS BRAHS! LOL
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