Gregory, Travis McMichael charged with murder of Ahmaud Arberry

[chalup]

Did they sprint away like they had just stolen something, or at the very least were caught in the act of stealing something?

He didn't attempt to steal anything, and the video is sped up at the point he is seen existing the house.

So it is OK trespass, as long as you don’t take anything?

Ask the homeowner, he didn't file one police report. Also Ahmaud is only confirmed in ONE of the video's, not multiple.

[chalup]

Did Arbery get shot for trespassing or for attacking a man and going for his gun?

Law says he got shot attempting to defend his life. Hence the felony assault charges.

[Audioslave]

Did they sprint away like they had just stolen something, or at the very least were caught in the act of stealing something?

LOL... now you have to justify it because he stopped there when he was out for a jog. If he was just out for a walk it would have been OK though.

[rectifryer]

A person can arrest someone that they reasonably suspect of committing a felony, even if the felony didn't occur in the presence of the individual making the arrest.

You've got a few things mixed up.

1) it has to be a forceable felony
2) Immediate knowledge doesn't transfer, so his neighbor telling him that's the dude doesn't satisfy this issue. It would be his neighbor's duty to citizen's arrest, as he would possess the intuitive sense that the jogger was committing a crime. It's possible showing a video of the jogger trespassing to the shooters could make it "immediate knowledge" but then we're still back to item 1. So far from what I've read, listening to witness testimony doesn't make you a witness.

Those two things are pretty damning for claiming citizen's arrest, so that won't do.

Since they didn't have a justifiable reason to track and harass the jogger, their actions become provocation.

From provocation the jogger has a right to defend himself, and GA is stand your ground. The Jogger doesn't have to leave just because two people keep chasing him down, then get out with guns. He can attack, per law, upon provocation.

[Thankless]

Law says he got shot attempting to defend his life. Hence the felony assault charges.

He got shot because he overreacted, ran up to someone who was armed and tried to wrestle a gun out of his hands. The shooter stood his ground and defended himself.

[BearyManilowe]

You can watch the video, he ran up and attacked the man who wasn't pointing his gun at him and tried to wrestle it out of his hands. Hence he got shot

If this is the only chit you've got to post in this thread after 28 pages, just don't come in and post.

Let's just use this to update when the trial starts.

[jubjubrsx]

From provocation the jogger has a right to defend himself, and GA is stand your ground. The Jogger doesn't have to leave just because two people keep chasing him down, then get out with guns. He can attack, per law, upon provocation.

Question though on this though, GA is a open carry state correct? also with that being said arbery could have ran the opposite way, but he ran towards McMichael with a gun and tried to strongarm the weapon away from McMichael wouldnt that consist of a felony strong arm robbery per GA law?

[BearyManilowe]

Question though on this though, GA is a open carry state correct? also with that being said arbery could have ran the opposite way, but he ran towards McMichael with a gun and tried to strongarm the weapon away from McMichael wouldnt that consist of a felony strong arm robbery per GA law?

Jesus fuk, can you fukking guys read the whole thread before you comment?

McMichael wasn't some rando on the street carrying his shotgun returning from a hunting trip. This was a situation that unfolded over a span of 5-10 minutes and not 3 seconds.

[Thankless]

You've got a few things mixed up.

1) it has to be a forceable felony
2) Immediate knowledge doesn't transfer, so his neighbor telling him that's the dude doesn't satisfy this issue. It would be his neighbor's duty to citizen's arrest, as he would possess the intuitive sense that the jogger was committing a crime. It's possible showing a video of the jogger trespassing to the shooters could make it "immediate knowledge" but then we're still back to item 1. So far from what I've read, listening to witness testimony doesn't make you a witness.

Those two things are pretty damning for claiming citizen's arrest, so that won't do.

Since they didn't have a justifiable reason to track and harass the jogger, their actions become provocation.

From provocation the jogger has a right to defend himself, and GA is stand your ground. The Jogger doesn't have to leave just because two people keep chasing him down, then get out with guns. He can attack, per law, upon provocation.

Whether attempting to make a citizen's arrest in this case was justifiable or not (probably not). You can't just attack someone and go for their gun and claim "provocation". They weren't attempting an armed robbery, they weren't attacking him, they didn't physically harm him in anyway. The shooter is the one who stood his ground in this case, evident by Arbery running up to him and trying to wrestle the gun out of his hands.

[rectifryer]

Question though on this though, GA is a open carry state correct? also with that being said arbery could have ran the opposite way, but he ran towards McMichael with a gun and tried to strongarm the weapon away from McMichael wouldnt that consist of a felony strong arm robbery per GA law?

Once provoked you're not committing a crime, you're defending yourself against criminals. It's not illegal to disarm a criminal that is threatening you. You also don't have an obligation to leave, it's stand your ground.

Personally, I think it's a beautiful example of exactly why we need those two laws.

You and everyone else in this thread is 100% right in the sense that any change in events or information or interpretation of the law just unwinds everything. If there is a legal precedence for why it's NOT provocation then the jogger wouldn't have a right to self defense.

Whether attempting to make a citizen's arrest in this case was justifiable or not (probably not). You can't just attack someone and go for their gun and claim "provocation". They weren't attempting an armed robbery, they weren't attacking him, they didn't physically harm him in anyway. The shooter is the one who stood his ground in this case, evident by Arbery running up to him and trying to wrestle the gun out of his hands.

Eh it doesn't matter what they thought they were doing. What matters is that any reasonable person being tailed aggressively and repeatedly by a small group of people who in turn blocks your path and presents an armed status is going to feel under duress. The process of causing this duress is provocation.

It's clear they did not think their actions through. Now that we have this thought experiment and I had to write that out, it's manslaughter more than murder, so they'll probably get off.

[chalup]

Whether attempting to make a citizen's arrest in this case was justifiable or not (probably not). You can't just attack someone and go for their gun and claim "provocation". They weren't attempting an armed robbery, they weren't attacking him, they didn't physically harm him in anyway. The shooter is the one who stood his ground in this case, evident by Arbery running up to him and trying to wrestle the gun out of his hands.

They chased him in multiple directions per their own words in the police report. The dads attorney's aren't even going with citizens arrest now and are basically saying it was all on the son. Thats how fukked they are.

[Thankless]

Jesus fuk, can you fukking guys read the whole thread before you comment?

McMichael wasn't some rando on the street carrying his shotgun returning from a hunting trip. This was a situation that unfolded over a span of 5-10 minutes and not 3 seconds.

Did Mcmichael attack Arbery or was it the other way around?

[chalup]

Did Mcmichael attack Arbery or was it the other way around?

Pictures have been posted ITT of the Son clearly on the left side of the yellow divider lines, and meets Ahmaud in the middle front of his truck. Obviously he went towards Ahmaud with a shotgun, that's felony assault.





You can clearly see the dad looking to the right side of the truck and the Son already passed the divider lines moving to cut off Ahmaud with a shotgun. DERP

[Audioslave]

Whether attempting to make a citizen's arrest in this case was justifiable or not (probably not).

But then why weren't they originally arrested for false imprisonment then? I honestly haven't been following this enough but there is clearly more to this case than meets the eye. I hate screaming "cover up" but I have a gut feeling the police really f**ked something up here. Something like this doesn't just fall by the wayside for no reason.

[Thankless]

Pictures have been posted ITT of the Son clearly on the left side of the yellow divider lines, and meets Ahmaud in the middle front of his truck. Obviously he went towards Ahmaud with a shotgun, that's felony assault.

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...ooting-Jp.html



"It clearly appears Travis McMichael and Greg McMichael had firearms being carried in an open
fashion . The investigation shows neither of them to be convicted felons or under felony
supervision , they were in a motor vehicle owned by Travis McMichael. Under Georgia Law
this is legal open carry ."


"It appears Travis McMichael,Greg McMichael, and Bryan William were following, in 'hot
pursuit' a burglary suspect, with solid firsthand probable cause, in their neighborhood, and
asking/ telling him to stop. It appears their intent was to stop and hold this criminal suspect until
law enforcement arrived. Under Georgia Law this is perfectly legal,"

OCGA 17 -4 -60 A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his
immediate knowledge . If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private
person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion .



"From said video it
appears Ahmaud Arbery was running along the right side of the McMichael truck then abruptly
turns 90 degrees to the left and attacks Travis McMichael who was standing at the front left
corner of the truck . A brief skirmish ensues in which it appears Arbery strikes McMichael and
appears to grab the shotgun and pull it from McMichael The shot is through Arbery s right
hand palm which is consistent with him grabbing and pulling the shotgun at the barrel tip , the
2nd and 3rd wounds are consistent with the struggle for the shotgun as depicted in the video , the
angle of the 2nd shot with the rear of the buttstock being pushed away and down from the fight
are also consistent with the upward angle of blood plume shown in the video and that McMichael
was attempting to push the gun away from Arbery while Arbery was pulling it toward himself.
The 3rd shot too appears to be in a struggle over the gun. The angle of the shots and the video
show this was from the beginning or almost immediately became-- a fight over the shotgun .
Given the fact Arbery initiated the fight, at the point Arbery grabbed the shotgun, under Georgia
Law , McMichael was allowed to use deadly force to protect himself.
Just as importantly, while we know McMichael had his finger on the trigger, we do not know
who caused the firings. Arbery would only had to pull the shotgun approximately 1/ 16th to
1/ 8th of one inch to fire weapon himself and in the height of an altercation this is entirely
possible. Arbery's mental health records & prior convictions help explain his apparent
aggressive nature and his possible thought pattern to attack an armed man."

[Garnett]

Question though on this though, GA is a open carry state correct? also with that being said arbery could have ran the opposite way, but he ran towards McMichael with a gun and tried to strongarm the weapon away from McMichael wouldnt that consist of a felony strong arm robbery per GA law?

Have you read the reports from the 911 calls that Arbery tried that multiple times changing directions before the McMichaels finally cut him off on the street where the video is recorded?

[jubjubrsx]

Once provoked you're not committing a crime, you're defending yourself against criminals. It's not illegal to disarm a criminal that is threatening you. You also don't have an obligation to leave, it's stand your ground.

Personally, I think it's a beautiful example of exactly why we need those two laws.

You and everyone else in this thread is 100% right in the sense that any change in events or information or interpretation of the law just unwinds everything. If there is a legal precedence for why it's NOT provocation then the jogger wouldn't have a right to self defense.

Thank you for the answer, and thank you for not being an a$$hole about it like some people ~cough~BearyManilowe~cough~ (recovering from that bat stew flu ...nasty)

[chalup]

I literally post pictures of the sons movement and dude just completely ignores it and copy pasta's... lol

They were clearly in hot pursuit.... Yet citizens can't be in hot pursuit so that copy pasty opinion is entirely wrong from the get go.

[chalup]

Turns out Ahmaud was chased for OVER 4 MINUTES.

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/l...BISIFQK6FA44M/


Attorney will be releasing a statement today. I'm seriously blown away you guys still defend these inbreds.

[Thankless]

I literally post pictures of the sons movement and dude just completely ignores it and copy pasta's... lol

They were clearly in hot pursuit.... Yet citizens can't be in hot pursuit so that copy pasty opinion is entirely wrong from the get go.

That's literally the DA's opinion.

[chalup]

That's literally the DA's opinion.

The DA that is under investigation by the GBI and who was personal friends with the two men............................................... .............?

[Lucky_ROA]

I've been on these forums since 2002 and I am ashamed of how the American youth is shaping and turning out be.

Wake up America or we won't have a free and brave system to wake up to.

[chalup]

Also why are we ignoring what the police told the mom initially?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/ahmaud-ar...ered-up-murder

Cooper-Jones said a detective initially contacted her, saying that Arbery had been involved in a burglary and that the homeowner confronted him and shot him after a tussle. She told Fox News she believed the story at the time because she didn't think the investigators had a reason to lie. But, the more she looked into the circumstances surrounding her son's death, the more she questioned what happened.

This entire case is dirty as hell and smells like a cover up.

[Thankless]

The DA that is under investigation by the GBI and who was personal friends with the two men............................................... .............?

And how does that refute any of the facts?

[chalup]

And how does that refute any of the facts?

The new lawyers for the dad dropped the citizens arrest narrative because they know it won't work. How about go back and actually read the thread and stop asking questions and posting information that was posted on the first couple of pages?

[VegasLifter26]

lol this thread is still going strong. Anyone know when the trial is?

[DDSF1]

Liberal racist are literally ignoring the video showing the criminal turn and charge to attack.

Liberal racists are pretending that the criminal was not a criminal, and in fact was an avid jogger and aspiring architect? Engineer? Electrician?

Liberal racists are so intent on “social justice” that they have denied reality and American jurisprudence—as they always do.

Liberal racists will feel a faux satisfaction when two innocent men are punished with prison for being good citizens—because that is a crime to a liberal racist.

[Thankless]

The new lawyers for the dad dropped the citizens arrest narrative because they know it won't work. How about go back and actually read the thread and stop asking questions and posting information that was posted on the first couple of pages?

The citizens arrest/holding him while waiting for law enforcement to get there may have been unjustifiable from a legal perspective.


But the shooting was 100% justifiable. Arbery could've kept jogging, or stopped and waited for law enforcement to arrive.

[chalup]

The citizens arrest/holding him while waiting for law enforcement to get there may have been unjustifiable from a legal perspective.


But the shooting was 100% justifiable. Arbery could've kept jogging, or stopped and waited for law enforcement to arrive.

I love how you give the two men the benefit of the doubt while giving Ahmaud zero. He tried to get away from them for 4 minutes. They had no knowledge of any crime being committed except trespassing, which doesn't give you the right to chase. Even if they did know he committed a felony, citizens arrest doesnt give you the right to use force to detain people. Chasing down a man while trying to cut him off for 4 minutes is felony assault in-of-itself. They could have followed him from a safe distance while waiting on the cops as well. He was in fear of his life, they never were.

[Witherman]

I love how you give the two men the benefit of the doubt while giving Ahmaud zero. He tried to get away from them for 4 minutes. They had no knowledge of any crime being committed except trespassing, which doesn't give you the right to chase. Even if they did know he committed a felony, citizens arrest doesnt give you the right to use force to detain people. Chasing down a man while trying to cut him off for 4 minutes is felony assault in-of-itself. They could have followed him from a safe distance while waiting on the cops as well. He was in fear of his life, they never were.

may i ask why you are so fiercely defending your side and seemingly won't stop until either A) everyone agrees with you or B) them hill billiez end up in jailz