Reply
Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    Registered User GringoMcGordo's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2020
    Age: 51
    Posts: 19
    Rep Power: 0
    GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    GringoMcGordo is offline

    Thought Experiment

    First of all this is in no way a real diet anyone should consider. The purpose of my posting it is I am trying to understand how much protein is burned for energy in calorie deficit vs what is used from fat reserves.

    For the purposes of this, assume someone has a moderately high activity level, and their maintenance calories are 3000. The only thing they eat is 2500 calories worth of fat free turkey breast per day. 100% of the calories they consume are protein.

    How much of that protein will get metabolized for energy?
    What about at 2000 calories?
    At 1500?

    What I'm trying to establish in my head is at what point does not eating enough overcome the fact that you're still technically getting all the protein you need to do bodily maintenance activies.

    Bonus reps if you can provide an equation and relevant variables.
    Every passing day is a chance to turn it all around.
    Reply With Quote

  2. #2
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2006
    Location: Seattle, Washington, United States
    Posts: 22,655
    Rep Power: 118368
    AdamWW has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) AdamWW has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) AdamWW has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) AdamWW has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) AdamWW has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) AdamWW has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) AdamWW has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) AdamWW has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) AdamWW has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) AdamWW has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) AdamWW has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    AdamWW is offline
    Well, I don't know of any 100% fat FREE turkey breast, but I understand your hypothetical: a literally 100% protein diet.

    There is no way to estimate this in such an extreme example, especially because the rate of gluconeogensis from glucogenic amino acids would likely up-regulate significantly in such an environment.

    Short answer: no idea.


    PS - Offering 'reps' when you have no rep power isn't really an incentive ;o)
    Last edited by AdamWW; 04-15-2020 at 05:35 PM.
    The power of carbs compels me!
    Reply With Quote

  3. #3
    Super Spreader desslok's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2010
    Posts: 24,372
    Rep Power: 139129
    desslok has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) desslok has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) desslok has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) desslok has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) desslok has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) desslok has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) desslok has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) desslok has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) desslok has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) desslok has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) desslok has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    desslok is offline
    Short answer is it will be different for literally everyone and dependent on multiple factors.
    Superbus est, qui loquitur in prouerbiis Latinis.

    Not all who wonder are last...
    Reply With Quote

  4. #4
    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2007
    Location: Suffolk, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Posts: 52,260
    Rep Power: 1320838
    SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz
    SuffolkPunch is offline
    Protein can be converted to carbohydrate - which in turn can be converted to fat. The body doesn't usually do the latter but will do if pushed.

    Apart from the cost of using alternative pathways, I don't really see this as different to any other mixed diet with the same calories and adequate protein. If you are thinking about how recomping happens, adequate protein and a non excessive deficit are the only requirements. More than a certain amount of protein is not likely to increase the effect further. The body will prioritise energy production vs. growth of new muscle tissue

    You aren't going to see an equation because there isn't enough data and you are most likely dealing with non linear and thresholding effects. I speculate that the chaotic combination of which would be pretty impossible to model mathematically.
    Reply With Quote

  5. #5
    Team Bacon necon76's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2010
    Location: Australia
    Posts: 19,317
    Rep Power: 149161
    necon76 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) necon76 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) necon76 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) necon76 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) necon76 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) necon76 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) necon76 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) necon76 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) necon76 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) necon76 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) necon76 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    necon76 is offline
    Originally Posted by GringoMcGordo View Post

    How much of that protein will get metabolized for energy?
    What about at 2000 calories?
    At 1500?

    350
    Delirious Mutant.
    Reply With Quote

  6. #6
    Registered User kingofturtles's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2012
    Posts: 7,854
    Rep Power: 56400
    kingofturtles has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) kingofturtles has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) kingofturtles has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) kingofturtles has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) kingofturtles has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) kingofturtles has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) kingofturtles has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) kingofturtles has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) kingofturtles has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) kingofturtles has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) kingofturtles has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    kingofturtles is offline
    came in to say glucogenesis
    www.miscers.com

    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=177185321 ~ WoW Classic <MISCERS> guild horde thread GTFIH

    320 bench press
    1000lbs club at 190ish lbs

    Chargers, Angels, Lakers, Canucks.
    Reply With Quote

  7. #7
    Registered User GringoMcGordo's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2020
    Age: 51
    Posts: 19
    Rep Power: 0
    GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    GringoMcGordo is offline
    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Well, I don't know of any 100% fat FREE turkey breast, but I understand your hypothetical: a literally 100% protein diet.
    A lot of turkey breast is advertised as "fat free", but yes there is a small amount of fat in it. A bit pedantic but thanks for pointing it out.

    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    There is no way to estimate this in such an extreme example, especially because the rate of gluconeogensis from glucogenic amino acids would likely up-regulate significantly in such an environment.
    Thank you. These are the kind of answers I'm looking for. Not sure what that is yet but it gives me something to research.


    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    PS - Offering 'reps' when you have no rep power isn't really an incentive ;o)
    K. I have no idea how the rep system works yet, as you can see I'm new to the board. I assumed it was like upvotes on Reddit.
    Every passing day is a chance to turn it all around.
    Reply With Quote

  8. #8
    Registered User GringoMcGordo's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2020
    Age: 51
    Posts: 19
    Rep Power: 0
    GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    GringoMcGordo is offline
    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    Protein can be converted to carbohydrate - which in turn can be converted to fat. The body doesn't usually do the latter but will do if pushed.

    Apart from the cost of using alternative pathways, I don't really see this as different to any other mixed diet with the same calories and adequate protein. If you are thinking about how recomping happens, adequate protein and a non excessive deficit are the only requirements. More than a certain amount of protein is not likely to increase the effect further. The body will prioritise energy production vs. growth of new muscle tissue

    You aren't going to see an equation because there isn't enough data and you are most likely dealing with non linear and thresholding effects. I speculate that the chaotic combination of which would be pretty impossible to model mathematically.
    Thank you! This is along the lines of what I was thinking, but you put it more eloquently that I ever could. My knowledge of biochemistry is almost non-existent beyond the basic macro/micro-nutrient things.

    You also said something that struck a cord, about mathematical modeling. That's why I included the bit about variables. I know everyone is different and that in itself would skew any result, and that's beside the fact that there are so many unknowns to consider.

    Quick question for you: Would you say diet science is still in its infancy? I feel like there is a lot of scientific information out there, but it seems to be a bit hodgepodge and lacking in certain areas. Like there is a lot we actually don't know.
    Every passing day is a chance to turn it all around.
    Reply With Quote

  9. #9
    Registered User GringoMcGordo's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2020
    Age: 51
    Posts: 19
    Rep Power: 0
    GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50) GringoMcGordo will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    GringoMcGordo is offline
    Originally Posted by kingofturtles View Post
    came in to say glucogenesis
    Thank you. The other guy said it also but y'all have clued me into something new to learn about.
    Every passing day is a chance to turn it all around.
    Reply With Quote

  10. #10
    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2007
    Location: Suffolk, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Posts: 52,260
    Rep Power: 1320838
    SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz
    SuffolkPunch is offline
    Originally Posted by GringoMcGordo View Post
    Thank you! This is along the lines of what I was thinking, but you put it more eloquently that I ever could. My knowledge of biochemistry is almost non-existent beyond the basic macro/micro-nutrient things.

    You also said something that struck a cord, about mathematical modeling. That's why I included the bit about variables. I know everyone is different and that in itself would skew any result, and that's beside the fact that there are so many unknowns to consider.

    Quick question for you: Would you say diet science is still in its infancy? I feel like there is a lot of scientific information out there, but it seems to be a bit hodgepodge and lacking in certain areas. Like there is a lot we actually don't know.
    I wouldn't say it's in its infancy, it's just that there are countless different scenarios to consider - which don't all have a have a large amount of data describing them. If you want a rundown of what we do and don't know about the science of nutrition and training, I suggest starting with Brad Schoenfeld's research and commentary.

    Consider this though: Guys who don't think too deeply about nutrition science and training theory often get great results. Sometime what they do it not 'optimal' - but that doesn't stop them from getting lean and jacked.

    This is because it isn't that complicated but it does take large amounts of hard work and stubbornness and consistency.

    Anyone with a high work ethic can achieve the same, genetics is often used as a counterargument to this but the fact is that the vast majority of people have average genetics and any problems they have are actually down to lifestyle and habits.
    Reply With Quote

  11. #11
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2006
    Location: Seattle, Washington, United States
    Posts: 22,655
    Rep Power: 118368
    AdamWW has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) AdamWW has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) AdamWW has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) AdamWW has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) AdamWW has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) AdamWW has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) AdamWW has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) AdamWW has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) AdamWW has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) AdamWW has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) AdamWW has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    AdamWW is offline
    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    I wouldn't say it's in its infancy, it's just that there are countless different scenarios to consider - which don't all have a have a large amount of data describing them. If you want a rundown of what we do and don't know about the science of nutrition and training, I suggest starting with Brad Schoenfeld's research and commentary.

    Consider this though: Guys who don't think too deeply about nutrition science and training theory often get great results. Sometime what they do it not 'optimal' - but that doesn't stop them from getting lean and jacked.

    This is because it isn't that complicated but it does take large amounts of hard work and stubbornness and consistency.

    Anyone with a high work ethic can achieve the same, genetics is often used as a counterargument to this but the fact is that the vast majority of people have average genetics and any problems they have are actually down to lifestyle and habits.
    Exactly this... people often forget our bodies are not a closed, controlled system.

    You can attempt to control all you can, but it’s impossible to treat our circumstances like a computer program with precise inputs and outputs... we’re just not that capable

    Also, many of the tiny details only become more critical when you’ve already eeked out the vast majority of your progress into the advanced stage, and by then you’d already have made considerable progress regardless of the program / method you follow.
    The power of carbs compels me!
    Reply With Quote

  12. #12
    Registered User kingofturtles's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2012
    Posts: 7,854
    Rep Power: 56400
    kingofturtles has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) kingofturtles has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) kingofturtles has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) kingofturtles has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) kingofturtles has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) kingofturtles has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) kingofturtles has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) kingofturtles has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) kingofturtles has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) kingofturtles has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) kingofturtles has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    kingofturtles is offline
    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post

    Also, many of the tiny details only become more critical when you’ve already eeked out the vast majority of your progress into the advanced stage, and by then you’d already have made considerable progress regardless of the program / method you follow.
    80/20 rule.
    www.miscers.com

    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=177185321 ~ WoW Classic <MISCERS> guild horde thread GTFIH

    320 bench press
    1000lbs club at 190ish lbs

    Chargers, Angels, Lakers, Canucks.
    Reply With Quote

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts