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  1. #61
    Super Saiyan Brah IPlayRugby's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BritishTwit View Post
    Yeah most people don't even know how to get their macros right tbf.

    And ego lifters are the worst. A lot of PTs will get their clients doing that too, or at least chitty exercises like plyometrics for overweight people who look like they're gonna kill themselves doing it, or elderly people balancing on half Bosu balls.
    Tfw never counted my macros or followed a diet. Eat what I want as long as I dont binge too much.
    Hehe
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  2. #62
    Pedicabo ego vos et irrum A-GAME's Avatar
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    Diet and desire.
    President Trump is 73 and doesn't wear glasses. Wanna know why? Because he's got 2020....
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  3. #63
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    Comes down to intensity and lack of desire. You need to obsessed with this to a certain degree. It’s not for everyone. I see people in the gym that look the same and lift the same weights from years ago. Good program and nutrition are also required. I’m still learning and figuring chit out myself. Nutrition is my biggest problem. I always end up yo yo dieting and that’s cost me a bunch of progress realistically. I look like I lift I think lol, but I’m just focused (and prob a bit too much) on getting abs
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  4. #64
    Registered User ss367's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WaySheGoesBoys View Post
    As a natural, disregarding noob gains, you can only build muscle if you have BOTH a calorie surplus and progressive overload. Both those things require conscious sustained effort for most people. It's impossible, disregarding noob gains, to build muscle naturally if you have not consumed more calories than your body needs to maintain its current weight. Does not matter how hard you train otherwise.
    Nope
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  5. #65
    Registered User BritishTwit's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IPlayRugby View Post
    Tfw never counted my macros or followed a diet. Eat what I want as long as I dont binge too much.
    What does "what you want" actually end up being though?

    No offence, because "what I want" ends up being healthy usually anyway with the odd pizza with the boys lol.. whereas what my female housemate at uni (who says she wants to lose 15kg through intuitive eating) wants for instance, ends up being Starbucks, chocolate and cereals all day every day lmao.
    Last edited by BritishTwit; 04-09-2020 at 12:39 AM.
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  6. #66
    Registered User ss367's Avatar
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    Intensity

    That’s it nothing else.

    Most have never been pushed in their life so don’t know the levels required or what they’re capable of
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  7. #67
    Registered User turtleman198's Avatar
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    Everyone is different. My biggest fallback in the beginning was diet. I made gains but once my diet improved,
    (along with everything else) I looked better.

    I would also add training intensity(form) in general.
    just LOL if youre not in the misc social crew
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  8. #68
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    Originally Posted by WaySheGoesBoys View Post
    As a natural, disregarding noob gains, you can only build muscle if you have BOTH a calorie surplus and progressive overload. Both those things require conscious sustained effort for most people. It's impossible, disregarding noob gains, to build muscle naturally if you have not consumed more calories than your body needs to maintain its current weight. Does not matter how hard you train otherwise.
    This is completely untrue. Building muscle in a deficit/maintenance is a real thing but it takes longer.
    Bulking/Cutting was ''created'' by drugged up athletes and bodybuilders. Natties should focus on steady weight gain (a pound or two per year post natty gains) while getting stronger.

    There is absolutely no reason to bulk up 10lbs only to keep 0.5-2 of it (srs)
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  9. #69
    Registered User BritishTwit's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by turtleman198 View Post
    Everyone is different. My biggest fallback in the beginning was diet. I made gains but once my diet improved,
    (along with everything else) I looked better.

    I would also add training intensity(form) in general.
    How did you improve your diet, just add more protein? Tbf lots of guys seem to be more aware of this these days. But then they'll do noob chit like barely eat fruit and veg or cut out carbs.

    Originally Posted by Suit3 View Post
    This is completely untrue. Building muscle in a deficit/maintenance is a real thing but it takes longer.
    Bulking/Cutting was ''created'' by drugged up athletes and bodybuilders. Natties should focus on steady weight gain (a pound or two per year post natty gains) while getting stronger.

    There is absolutely no reason to bulk up 10lbs only to keep 0.5-2 of it (srs)
    Expand on this pls? (srs)
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  10. #70
    1stUncle fought Sugar Ray etet1919's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Suit3 View Post
    This is completely untrue. Building muscle in a deficit/maintenance is a real thing but it takes longer.
    Bulking/Cutting was ''created'' by drugged up athletes and bodybuilders. Natties should focus on steady weight gain (a pound or two per year post natty gains) while getting stronger.

    There is absolutely no reason to bulk up 10lbs only to keep 0.5-2 of it (srs)
    I didn't read the thread. But I can relate to your post. I have never done bulking/cutting cycles, formal deloads, counting of calories, weighing food, followed a proven bodybuilding or strength training program, etc... I've always trained more intuitively (I believe), while still keeping a definite structure or protocol, both in the short and long term throughout the years. I never focused too much on the number on the scale or tried to determine my bf% at any given time. I continually tried to build, sculpt, gain strength, achieve higher fitness levels, no matter what my whole regimen entailed (again, throughout the years). I just enjoyed the process of following my gut instinct (which became habit). That's why I can't wait to get back to my previous regimen! I'm sure many can relate.


    Edit: I figured out why I never followed a proven program... I love (or need) to be more spontaneous in the gym! My former gymnastics training was the exact opposite- strict with formal structure, and I had to work mostly on weaknesses to improve in meets.

    People would do well to try to work on being well-rounded, if not competing in bodybuilding or powerlifting, inho.
    Last edited by etet1919; 04-09-2020 at 04:47 AM.
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  11. #71
    Registered User BritishTwit's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by etet1919 View Post
    I didn't read the thread. But I can relate to your post. I have never done bulking/cutting cycles, formal deloads, counting of calories, weighing food, followed a proven bodybuilding or strength training program, etc... I've always trained more intuitively (I believe), while still keeping a definite structure or protocol, both in the short and long term throughout the years. I never focused too much on the number on the scale or tried to determine my bf% at any given time. I continually tried to build, sculpt, gain strength, achieve higher fitness levels, no matter what my whole regimen entailed (again, throughout the years). I just enjoyed the process of following my gut instinct (which became habit). That's why I can't wait to get back to my previous regimen! I'm sure many can relate.


    Edit: I figured out why I never followed a proven program... I love (or need) to be more spontaneous in the gym! My former gymnastics training was the exact opposite- strict with formal structure, and I had to work mostly on weaknesses to improve in meets.

    People would do well to try to work on being well-rounded, if not competing in bodybuilding or powerlifting, inho.
    How did you find intuitive eating? I prefer tracking macros, cals etc. but have had bodybuilding friends who recommend it. Thinking of getting into BBing once this blows over.
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  12. #72
    Banned Suit3's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by etet1919 View Post
    I didn't read the thread. But I can relate to your post........

    Good that you have found your path. Unless someone is a serious athlete (Powerlifter, weightlifter, bodybuilder included) There is no reason to overthink/complicate macros, training programs etc. It aint that hard.

    Fact of the matter is, I'd say that obsessing over macros, bulking/cutting, always trying to be optimal will create obsessive disorders.
    I've seen jacked tall bearded tattooed guys become nervous like little girls when people offer them sweets/cookies or they are forced to eat outside of their diets.
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  13. #73
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    Originally Posted by ss367 View Post
    Intensity

    That’s it nothing else.

    Most have never been pushed in their life so don’t know the levels required or what they’re capable of

    Truth. Most people I know that dont get much results at the gym fukking lolligag. They fukking lift something that is usually more than they can handle, then dink around for way too long in between sets. Eventually leave the gym without doing much at all in the end.
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  14. #74
    Registered User proteinsnake's Avatar
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    I've been a trainer for years so I can probably give some insight on this.

    I'd say 9/10 clients don't see significant result. Even if you see them for an hour 3x/week that's really not much, think about how much time you or other actual fit people spend in the gym. Then include all the hours you spend researching, dieting and the fact that you're willing to do the most efficient things to see results quickly.

    If you want to see real results you have to live, eat and breathe it. You may not realize how time you actually spend at least thinking about fitness - compared with clients who want nothing to do with that lifestyle and so they will never see results.

    It sounds cheesy but it has to be a lifestyle, not just something you do a few hours per week. You'll hear clients coping when they say stuff like "I just feel so much better!", "I have so much energy since I started working out!", "I haven't lost any weight or inches but my pants definitely fit different than they used to!". It's all cope. Tangible results are only achieved through real constant dedication.
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  15. #75
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    Originally Posted by Suit3 View Post
    This is completely untrue. Building muscle in a deficit/maintenance is a real thing but it takes longer.
    Bulking/Cutting was ''created'' by drugged up athletes and bodybuilders. Natties should focus on steady weight gain (a pound or two per year post natty gains) while getting stronger.

    There is absolutely no reason to bulk up 10lbs only to keep 0.5-2 of it (srs)
    This is kind of where I'm at, honestly. I'm close to 18% bf and at this point, I just want to cut to where I can see abs in most lighting and then slow bulk back to the weight I'm currently at over multiple years from there. Lean bulking is hard AF and being big is way overrated. IRL, if you're ripped enough to have abs and have enough muscle to outlift the average person (which isn't hard because most people are pussies), you're probably in the top 10 percentile bodywise. I weigh 150 lbs and have 14' arms but people who don't lift think I'm "jacked" just because I'm significantly stronger than the average person lol. Cutting is way easier because you just have to get enough protein and eat less. It's sheer will power.

    Getting lean is the hardest part, but once you get there and have decent strength (say intermediate level on most powerlifting benchmarks relative to your weight), which should happen within 1 year of consistent lifting and effort, it's better to focus on maxing your career/social circle over your macros IMO.
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    In hierarchical order:

    No inconsistency.
    No intensity.
    Bad diet.
    Bad form.
    Bad genetics.
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    Originally Posted by imbeingcereal View Post
    This is kind of where I'm at, honestly. I'm close to 18% bf and at this point, I just want to cut to where I can see abs in most lighting and then slow bulk back to the weight I'm currently at over multiple years from there. Lean bulking is hard AF and being big is way overrated. IRL, if you're ripped enough to have abs and have enough muscle to outlift the average person (which isn't hard because most people are pussies), you're probably in the top 10 percentile bodywise. I weigh 150 lbs and have 14' arms but people who don't lift think I'm "jacked" just because I'm significantly stronger than the average person lol. Cutting is way easier because you just have to get enough protein and eat less. It's sheer will power.

    Getting lean is the hardest part, but once you get there and have decent strength (say intermediate level on most powerlifting benchmarks relative to your weight), which should happen within 1 year of consistent lifting and effort, it's better to focus on maxing your career/social circle over your macros IMO.
    I have abs and am pretty strong, but I'm still cutting as I'd like to get lean enough to consider competing. How much protein do you reckon is too much? Been upping it all I can, but I'm not sheriff it's worth taking constant shakes etc. on top of protein heavy meals, like I've been doing.

    I have the willpower to stick to it but the worst part about cutting is the hunger/feeling dizzy, I'm going for it ayy so get this even though I get in carbs, enough sleep, drink water etc.

    Originally Posted by proteinsnake View Post
    I've been a trainer for years so I can probably give some insight on this.

    I'd say 9/10 clients don't see significant result. Even if you see them for an hour 3x/week that's really not much, think about how much time you or other actual fit people spend in the gym. Then include all the hours you spend researching, dieting and the fact that you're willing to do the most efficient things to see results quickly.

    If you want to see real results you have to live, eat and breathe it. You may not realize how time you actually spend at least thinking about fitness - compared with clients who want nothing to do with that lifestyle and so they will never see results.

    It sounds cheesy but it has to be a lifestyle, not just something you do a few hours per week. You'll hear clients coping when they say stuff like "I just feel so much better!", "I have so much energy since I started working out!", "I haven't lost any weight or inches but my pants definitely fit different than they used to!". It's all cope. Tangible results are only achieved through real constant dedication.
    Great post brah! Kudos for being a trainer.

    Good point, I'd say lots of people will legit spend 30 mins actually working out in the gym. Potentially even less, for those guys/girls who spend half their time on the mat chatting chit.

    How do you get people into that lifestyle though, without having them either freak out and decline, or obsess over it?
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  18. #78
    1stUncle fought Sugar Ray etet1919's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BritishTwit View Post
    How did you find intuitive eating? I prefer tracking macros, cals etc. but have had bodybuilding friends who recommend it. Thinking of getting into BBing once this blows over.
    Well, that part isn't intuitive! I just dedicated myself to eating wholesome food most of the time! To me, that simply means eating 100% whole grains, lean cuts of red meat (steak and chicken liver), usually steamed chicken breasts and dark meat, lean ground turkey chopmeat, salmon, flounder, unsalted nuts, low-fat unsweetened dairy (including greek yogurt, milk, lower-sodium cheese, whole eggs, etc.), berries, colorful veggies, etc.. If I use oil, I like cold-pressed 100% extra virgin olive oil for sauteing.

    I've tried hard (but didn't always succeed) in avoiding refined sugars (flour, sugar, sugary syrups, for example), especially during holidays or when going out to eat. But for the most part I was pretty consistent, and I developed a taste for healthy food. That's looking back at the bigger picture, though. It's easier to eat healthy if you stock up on the right food! Probably anyone would say this.

    And I just ate when I was hungry. No magic pill. I always had a good appetite for breakfast and always reached for healthy food (including Quest protein bars) immediately after training. I always had a good appetite, but that was also due to the fact that I was very physically active and fit! It wasn't just about lifting "light" weight a few times a week and then going home. I always lifted heavy and I always trained for GOOD cardiovascular conditioning. So, I needed to eat... alot!

    I feel like you; I need to get back into my normal swing of things, both with BB and cardio (fully equipped gym). But you can make due now as best as possible! You have DBs and a jumprope?
    Last edited by etet1919; 04-09-2020 at 10:34 AM. Reason: almost forgot the bulk of it-whole grains!!
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    Weak genetics and they train like pussies.
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    Because they’re still training their fork lifts instead of real lifts
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    Originally Posted by StarfaceChris View Post
    Because most spend more time on their phones than actually training. If you take like 5 minute breaks between sets you will never make gains and that's what most people do.
    I take 15 minute rests between sets on big lifts.
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    Bottom line, they are exercising rather than training.

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    Originally Posted by Muzzlrpress View Post
    We never claimed to be you though, Muzzler!
    ^^ It's true, my first-generation uncle was a boxer who fought Sugar Ray Robinson! He also fought in the war, sacrificing the career he deeply loved, so people could have the right to freedom.

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    Originally Posted by BritishTwit View Post

    Great post brah! Kudos for being a trainer.

    Good point, I'd say lots of people will legit spend 30 mins actually working out in the gym. Potentially even less, for those guys/girls who spend half their time on the mat chatting chit.

    How do you get people into that lifestyle though, without having them either freak out and decline, or obsess over it?
    The more obsessed you are with it the more results you'll see. I've come to terms with the fact that if you don't love working out, you're not going to see significant results. Discipline will only take you so far, if it's not something you're passionate about you won't take the necessary steps to become tangibly better. I try to share this redpill with my clients gently, but they always have excuses like "Well I don't want to be SUPER fit", it's cope.

    You can't make someone do anything, they have to learn to love it by their own accord. I usually know within at most a couple sessions of training someone if they're going to be successful or not. Usually it's within the first hour. If you're trying to convince anyone to get into the lifestyle, you're wasting your time. Only help them if they beg you for it, cause then you know they're serious.

    In my entire life i've only ever gotten 1 single person really into the lifestyle, it was my ex girlfriend. She didn't workout when I met her, but said she always wanted to. After a couple weeks she asked me if I could write a program for her, I said no and "I won't write you a program because you're not going to stick to it". She kept asking over and over until I could tell she was serious. Now 3 years later she's super jacked/fit and is a legit competitive powerlifter.
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    Originally Posted by proteinsnake View Post
    The more obsessed you are with it the more results you'll see. I've come to terms with the fact that if you don't love working out, you're not going to see significant results. Discipline will only take you so far, if it's not something you're passionate about you won't take the necessary steps to become tangibly better. I try to share this redpill with my clients gently, but they always have excuses like "Well I don't want to be SUPER fit", it's cope.

    You can't make someone do anything, they have to learn to love it by their own accord. I usually know within at most a couple sessions of training someone if they're going to be successful or not. Usually it's within the first hour. If you're trying to convince anyone to get into the lifestyle, you're wasting your time. Only help them if they beg you for it, cause then you know they're serious.

    In my entire life i've only ever gotten 1 single person really into the lifestyle, it was my ex girlfriend. She didn't workout when I met her, but said she always wanted to. After a couple weeks she asked me if I could write a program for her, I said no and "I won't write you a program because you're not going to stick to it". She kept asking over and over until I could tell she was serious. Now 3 years later she's super jacked/fit and is a legit competitive powerlifter.
    Definitely yeah, I personally love the lifestyle and most of the guys on these forums do too. Realistically though, can you get an average person to constantly be adding up macros, weighing out food etc as much as we do? If not super fit it would be good to get them to "normal fit" (even if that's chit by our definition ayy).

    How can you tell if someone's gonna succeed? Just less whining lol?

    Good on you! That's the right attitude for her to start with fo sho.

    Tbf, talking of attitude I do know a LOT of people (mostly girls) who started at the gym for New Year, have bought a ton of protein shakes etc., hired a PT, say they do 30 min "HIIT" workouts.. and judging from their social media pics they look no different. They're keen but something's missing. Maybe the PT is chit.
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    Originally Posted by etet1919 View Post
    Well, that part isn't intuitive! I just dedicated myself to eating wholesome food most of the time! To me, that simply means eating 100% whole grains, lean cuts of red meat (steak and chicken liver), usually steamed chicken breasts and dark meat, lean ground turkey chopmeat, salmon, flounder, unsalted nuts, low-fat unsweetened dairy (including greek yogurt, milk, lower-sodium cheese, whole eggs, etc.), berries, colorful veggies, etc.. If I use oil, I like cold-pressed 100% extra virgin olive oil for sauteing.

    I've tried hard (but didn't always succeed) in avoiding refined sugars (flour, sugar, sugary syrups, for example), especially during holidays or when going out to eat. But for the most part I was pretty consistent, and I developed a taste for healthy food. That's looking back at the bigger picture, though. It's easier to eat healthy if you stock up on the right food! Probably anyone would say this.

    And I just ate when I was hungry. No magic pill. I always had a good appetite for breakfast and always reached for healthy food (including Quest protein bars) immediately after training. I always had a good appetite, but that was also due to the fact that I was very physically active and fit! It wasn't just about lifting "light" weight a few times a week and then going home. I always lifted heavy and I always trained for GOOD cardiovascular conditioning. So, I needed to eat... alot!

    I feel like you; I need to get back into my normal swing of things, both with BB and cardio (fully equipped gym). But you can make due now as best as possible! You have DBs and a jumprope?
    Ah thanks sis! That's like my diet already though haha, down to the EVOO. I worry I obsess over diet too much sometimes, have admittedly seen strong results cutting (esp. during quarantine when stepping up cardio) but keep going through hungry/dizzy spells despite sleeping right. Wasn't sure if this whole "eat intuitively" or at least IIFYM thing was worth a stab.

    Have tried eating when hungry for the last few days and found I was eating constantly and felt sluggish. Also feel less dizzy though so maybe I need to hit that sweet spot lol. I have also been doing hardcore calisthenics and general home workouts. Do you reckon "eat when hungry" still applies when hardcore cutting or should I just work through it and occasionally refeed/reverse diet or eat at maintenance?

    Oh yeah, I've got some weights (left over from my sis so pussy weights lmao) and a bench haha. I also run on the beach where I live a lot (it's a filthy British beach but it'll do ayy). No jump rope sadly
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    Originally Posted by BritishTwit View Post
    Ah thanks sis! That's like my diet already though haha, down to the EVOO. I worry I obsess over diet too much sometimes, have admittedly seen strong results cutting (esp. during quarantine when stepping up cardio) but keep going through hungry/dizzy spells despite sleeping right. Wasn't sure if this whole "eat intuitively" or at least IIFYM thing was worth a stab.

    Have tried eating when hungry for the last few days and found I was eating constantly and felt sluggish. Also feel less dizzy though so maybe I need to hit that sweet spot lol. I have also been doing hardcore calisthenics and general home workouts. Do you reckon "eat when hungry" still applies when hardcore cutting or should I just work through it and occasionally refeed/reverse diet or eat at maintenance?

    Oh yeah, I've got some weights (left over from my sis so pussy weights lmao) and a bench haha. I also run on the beach where I live a lot (it's a filthy British beach but it'll do ayy). No jump rope sadly
    You shouldn't be going through dizzy spells!! Are you staying hydrated? One of the best pieces of advice I got was to drink enough water (with electrolytes) DURING my training, and not just before. You'll know the right amount for yourself...maybe that will help with feeling "dizzy" or lightheaded. But as far as eating- I always ate enough, even while my upper body became more ripped. I guess that means I put in enough intense cardio (the conditioning end of training) in order to maintain that appearance and my strength over the long haul. So, no, I was never doing the typical BB "hardcore cutting" diets. That's exactly what I wanted to avoid. In my mind, I wanted to be able to go hard all the time. Maybe you could say I "sort of" adopted an informal sports nutrition style of eating to maintain, and made it a lifestyle! I truly meant it when I wrote I never counted calories, or ate for "bulking, recomp or cutting." HOW LONG have you been lifting? It can take at least a couple of years to see some good overall development, and THEN definition.

    I'm glad to hear your Prime Minister is out of intensive care!
    ^^ It's true, my first-generation uncle was a boxer who fought Sugar Ray Robinson! He also fought in the war, sacrificing the career he deeply loved, so people could have the right to freedom.

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    Most people have no fuking clue what a bodybuilding workout is. If youre in the gym less than 45 minutes chances are youre doing fuk all. If you arent stronger this month than last month chances are youre doing fuk all.
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    Originally Posted by BritishTwit View Post
    Expand on this pls? (srs)
    Most people who workout are fuqed in the head without even knowing, they have ignored their natural hunger and satiety signals, so in order to maintain their artificial set point weight created by restriction, they need to continue the restriction with counting calories (Athletic diet brahhhh im fawken Zyzz!)

    The first step of recovering from an eating disorder is feeding yourself. You will gain weight, probably a lot. But as soon as your body realizes you dont restrict, all the natural hormonal hunger/fullness/satiety signals will be back and you will naturally lose the weight and get a healthy set point weight - Aka being lean all year around. A healthy human eat when hungry, stop when full, can do physical labor and maintain a healthy lean bodyweight because of it.

    I used to count everything back in the day and staying lean all year around was a struggle because deep down I ignored my bodies hunger/satiety signals.
    Now I just communicate with my body and I am lean all year without even thinking about it. Sometimes I gain weight, sometimes I lose weight, but I always make gains in the gym and I always stay lean. Im almost 6'2, 212lbs with abs. This does not mean I eat **** all day everyday, I eat healthy natty foods with the occasional dirt on the side.

    Looking back at my past behavior, I had a an eating disorder (srs)

    Calories in vs. Calories out (CICO) is true, but only on paper. In real life, Your body will tell you what it needs when it needs it and if you trust the process you will have a healthy body.

    Divers, Gymnasts and Weightlifters (Even drug free) maintain the same weight basically their whole careers while getting bigger, stronger, faster - How?
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