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    Spain the first country in europe to introduce UBI after the pandemic

    Spain is to roll out a universal basic income (UBI) “as soon as possible” to mitigate the impact of coronavirus.

    Minister for economic affairs Nadia Calvino told Spanish broadcaster La Sexta on Sunday night that the move was intended to help families during the pandemic.

    But Ms Calvino, who is also deputy prime minister, said the government’s ambition was that UBI could become something that “stays forever, that becomes a structural instrument, a permanent instrument”.


    If the payments are successfully implemented, Spain would become the first country in Europe to introduce them nationwide on a long-term basis.

    Spain is the second worst-hit country by the coronavirus pandemic, reporting a total of 135,032 positive cases and 13,055 deaths as of Monday.

    The country’s economy has nearly ground to a halt during a strict lockdown imposed on 14 March, with schools, shops and restaurants shuttered. People are only allowed out of their homes to get essential supplies, or to go to work if they cannot work from home.
    Italy will be probably next




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    Snap necks, cash checks Sarevoke75's Avatar
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    Hope to see more countries follow suit. Would probably never work in a larger country like the US unfortunately
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    And the bill wiill be paid for by the EU. God i ****ing hate living in the EU paying for these poverty southern countries who give zero ****s about austerity
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    Originally Posted by Sarevoke75 View Post
    Hope to see more countries follow suit. Would probably never work in a larger country like the US unfortunately
    Agreed witth the first part. If it helps eliminate other welfare programs which are tainted with bureaucracy, and directly helps people, it's a great solution.

    Not sure about your second statement yet. Ideally now would be the perfect time to implement it. We literally just printed $3 trillion more. Why not implement it for a year or two?
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    Originally Posted by Sarevoke75 View Post
    Hope to see more countries follow suit. Would probably never work in a larger country like the US unfortunately
    A very large country with around 50 million people tries it.

    "probably won't work in an even larger country"

    LOL

    It probably won't work at all btw.
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    Snap necks, cash checks Sarevoke75's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KingofLifts View Post
    Agreed witth the first part. If it helps eliminate other welfare programs which are tainted with bureaucracy, and directly helps people, it's a great solution.

    Not sure about your second statement yet. Ideally now would be the perfect time to implement it. We literally just printed $3 trillion more. Why not implement it for a year or two?
    it's loosely based, but I think that because we have a MUCH higher population than a lot of EU countries, the government would obvi be handing out much more money. And because the US has a decent population that already collects disability and refuses to work, universal income would further encourage them to continue to be lazy. Again, loosely based and just spit balling
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    Originally Posted by Sarevoke75 View Post
    it's loosely based, but I think that because we have a MUCH higher population than a lot of EU countries, the government would obvi be handing out much more money. And because the US has a decent population that already collects disability and refuses to work, universal income would further encourage them to continue to be lazy. Again, loosely based and just spit balling
    Honestly, eliminating disability benefits for those who haven't paid in favor of a UBI would probably motivate some people to try to work. If you're getting the floor income either way, you're removing the motivation not to supplement it.

    I have my doubts about it, but I don't think is a valid criticism. I do think it's not practical to pay everyone a "living wage" that would be reasonable for supporting a family, but it may be practical to eliminate most social programs in favor of a minimum low standard of living. We may even find that eliminating a lot of the bureaucracy associated with food stamps, disability, Medicaid, etc., would offset a non-trivial portion of the cost.

    Especially after this pandemic, I'm increasingly convinced that we do have to address what do with people who are just plain too dumb to support themselves in a modern economy and are going to fall on harder and harder times. They're not going to be learning to code, and the town mine is never going to reopen. Unless we want to be like 1960s Italy and send in troops to force people to relocate to functional towns against their will, it's going to continue to be a drag on society.
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    Originally Posted by Sarevoke75 View Post
    it's loosely based, but I think that because we have a MUCH higher population than a lot of EU countries, the government would obvi be handing out much more money. And because the US has a decent population that already collects disability and refuses to work, universal income would further encourage them to continue to be lazy. Again, loosely based and just spit balling
    Yeah 180 million adults is definitely a challenge. I would say that the US's economy is bigger in proportion to those EU countries though, and more robust in terms of economic activity. I'm not in favor of programs that reward people to be lazy. I think Andrew Yang had the right idea. He favored a opt-in system, where if you opted in most other benefits would be forgone. There will still be people that take advantage of the system, waste money and so on.. That's a given.

    I'm in favor of a "floor" where no matter what happens you would still be able to eat, get a roof over your head (splitting rent), and take care of necessities. I think it would encourage more entrepreneurship as well, due to the fact that if you fall, you can't fall too far. UBI being anywhere from $500-$1000 a month would be a game changer for most American families living paycheck to paycheck.

    Originally Posted by ANumber1 View Post
    Honestly, eliminating disability benefits for those who haven't paid in favor of a UBI would probably motivate some people to try to work. If you're getting the floor income either way, you're removing the motivation not to supplement it.

    I have my doubts about it, but I don't think is a valid criticism. I do think it's not practical to pay everyone a "living wage" that would be reasonable for supporting a family, but it may be practical to eliminate most social programs in favor of a minimum low standard of living. We may even find that eliminating a lot of the bureaucracy associated with food stamps, disability, Medicaid, etc., would offset a non-trivial portion of the cost.

    Especially after this pandemic, I'm increasingly convinced that we do have to address what do with people who are just plain too dumb to support themselves in a modern economy and are going to fall on harder and harder times. They're not going to be learning to code, and the town mine is never going to reopen. Unless we want to be like 1960s Italy and send in troops to force people to relocate to functional towns against their will, it's going to continue to be a drag on society.
    I believe it was Jordan Peterson who pointed out that 10% of the population has an IQ equal to 83 or less. That put in laymans terms is 10% of people can't function effectively in job requiring cognitive effort. That's scary, and really phucks up the argument that people are lazy/unwilling to work. Unfortunately there's not a job for everyone. That's going to become increasingly more the case as technology and automation wipes out menial jobs. Goodbye cashiers, truck drivers, retail clerks..
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    Originally Posted by ScuffedLifter View Post
    And the bill wiill be paid for by the EU. God i ****ing hate living in the EU paying for these poverty southern countries who give zero ****s about austerity
    Countries like Spain and Greece are FLAT BROKE. The EU will float these third world peasants just cause
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    Originally Posted by Sarevoke75 View Post
    it's loosely based, but I think that because we have a MUCH higher population than a lot of EU countries, the government would obvi be handing out much more money. And because the US has a decent population that already collects disability and refuses to work, universal income would further encourage them to continue to be lazy. Again, loosely based and just spit balling
    There would have to be new laws in which you only collect UBI if you contribute to the system. More strict regulations on disability and welfare especially since everyone will basically be on welfare. Its the only way to deter 1/3 of the country from just being lazy and collecting government checks, but hey creating more enforcement means more jobs for people but at the risk of becoming Nazi's basically, minus the singling out jews.

    Another major problem is what do you do with Debt? how can people live a normal life if they were making 300k before the pandemic and owe Mortgage and car payments beyond a UBI income of say 40k/ year. Do you just expect them to declare bankruptcy and take thier house and car? where do they go from there? What happens to housing prices when no one can get loans anymore?
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    Originally Posted by Jestbrah View Post
    There would have to be new laws in which you only collect UBI if you contribute to the system. More strict regulations on disability and welfare especially since everyone will basically be on welfare. Its the only way to deter 1/3 of the country from just being lazy and collecting government checks, but hey creating more enforcement means more jobs for people but at the risk of becoming Nazi's basically, minus the singling out jews.

    Another major problem is what do you do with Debt? how can people live a normal life if they were making 300k before the pandemic and owe Mortgage and car payments beyond a UBI income of say 40k/ year. Do you just expect them to declare bankruptcy and take thier house and car? where do they go from there? What happens to housing prices when no one can get loans anymore?
    People need to do "less" in the conventional sense, for the system and that is the reason for UBI. Reason china is producing viruses cause of growth, people reproducing like flies. More people creates more demand for food upkeep which leads to eating various exotic animals, cause they available
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    Originally Posted by Kormo View Post
    People need to do "less" in the conventional sense, for the system and that is the reason for UBI. Reason china is producing viruses cause of growth, people reproducing like flies. More people creates more demand for food upkeep which leads to eating various exotic animals, cause they available
    I agree people need to do less, as times got easier, people got more stupid and bored and that boredom leads to population growth and overspending.

    I have heard from people with first hand experience the consumption of the exotic animals isnt because of poverty but rather cultural systems and just going so far into food exploration that it is "normal" for them.
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    This pandemic will definitely be a catalyst for UBI, which was already a part of the discussion in many countries.

    Originally Posted by Jestbrah View Post
    There would have to be new laws in which you only collect UBI if you contribute to the system. More strict regulations on disability and welfare especially since everyone will basically be on welfare. Its the only way to deter 1/3 of the country from just being lazy and collecting government checks, but hey creating more enforcement means more jobs for people but at the risk of becoming Nazi's basically, minus the singling out jews.

    Another major problem is what do you do with Debt? how can people live a normal life if they were making 300k before the pandemic and owe Mortgage and car payments beyond a UBI income of say 40k/ year. Do you just expect them to declare bankruptcy and take thier house and car? where do they go from there? What happens to housing prices when no one can get loans anymore?
    This isn't UBI then. It's just another bull**** means tested welfare program like those we already have.

    UBI means UBI. Universal, given to everyone, and no stipulations or requirements. This obviously cuts any administration and bureacracy involved too.
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    Originally Posted by Jestbrah View Post
    I agree people need to do less, as times got easier, people got more stupid and bored and that boredom leads to population growth and overspending.

    I have heard from people with first hand experience the consumption of the exotic animals isnt because of poverty but rather cultural systems and just going so far into food exploration that it is "normal" for them.
    As Yang professed. Putting money in people's hands creates jobs, doesn't necessarily make them lazy.
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    Originally Posted by Kormo View Post
    As Yang professed. Putting money in people's hands creates jobs, doesn't necessarily make them lazy.
    what you do for a living?
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    Originally Posted by Ratfish View Post
    what you do for a living?
    I used to work in restaurant. And more recently i worked in a hospital

    I get neet bucks from new york city program tho. State program. Not fed funded
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    The rest of the EU will be overjoyed to fund this.
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    This pandemic will definitely be a catalyst for UBI, which was already a part of the discussion in many countries.



    This isn't UBI then. It's just another bull**** means tested welfare program like those we already have.

    UBI means UBI. Universal, given to everyone, and no stipulations or requirements. This obviously cuts any administration and bureacracy involved too.
    You have to have regulations, otherwise everyone would just not work or pick fun jobs that an overwhelming amount of necessary jobs wouldn't get filled. You cant have a completely open no regulation UBI
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    Call me old fashion but, what happened to just working for a living?
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    Originally Posted by Jestbrah View Post
    You have to have regulations, otherwise everyone would just not work or pick fun jobs that an overwhelming amount of necessary jobs wouldn't get filled. You cant have a completely open no regulation UBI
    There's no UBI proposal I know of that will allow people to just not work. And there have been enough UBI schemes trialled over the world now for us to draw some data from, and in none of them did people choose to sit at home and do nothing. The only demographic that did that was new mothers, which is pretty reasonable.

    Everyone else continued to work, investment in small businesses increased, investment in education, healthcare, paying off debts, as well as everyday expenditures. It's not meant to be a total replacement for all work, it's meant to give people some breathing room and a layer of financial security to pursue their goals more confidently, as well as put more buying power into the hands of the middle class, in a world where real incomes and wealth for the middle class have barely budged in half a century.
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    I doubt that actual UBI is coming, especially not for Spain. Not even wealthier countries can afford it and Spain doesn't have money for anything - definitely not for UBI. Also, how high is the income supposed to be? 200 bucks aren't gonna cut it. I'm sure it's gonna turn out to be some sort of bs, one way or another.
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    There's no UBI proposal I know of that will allow people to just not work. And there have been enough UBI schemes trialled over the world now for us to draw some data from, and in none of them did people choose to sit at home and do nothing. The only demographic that did that was new mothers, which is pretty reasonable.

    Everyone else continued to work, investment in small businesses increased, investment in education, healthcare, paying off debts, as well as everyday expenditures. It's not meant to be a total replacement for all work, it's meant to give people some breathing room and a layer of financial security to pursue their goals more confidently, as well as put more buying power into the hands of the middle class, in a world where real incomes and wealth for the middle class have barely budged in half a century.

    you can try to explain it to them but most people here have no idea of the UBI concept.
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    Originally Posted by messomi View Post
    you can try to explain it to them but most people here have no idea of the UBI concept.
    Exactly. Plus a proper UBI means you get to Axe pretty much every other monetary social program like pension, disability, unemployment insurance etc.
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    There's no UBI proposal I know of that will allow people to just not work. And there have been enough UBI schemes trialled over the world now for us to draw some data from, and in none of them did people choose to sit at home and do nothing. The only demographic that did that was new mothers, which is pretty reasonable.

    Everyone else continued to work, investment in small businesses increased, investment in education, healthcare, paying off debts, as well as everyday expenditures. It's not meant to be a total replacement for all work, it's meant to give people some breathing room and a layer of financial security to pursue their goals more confidently, as well as put more buying power into the hands of the middle class, in a world where real incomes and wealth for the middle class have barely budged in half a century.
    Link to a currently implemented form of UBI, please.
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    Easy to provide universal income when everyone already has a low income



    Can’t even drink the water in Spain and most houses don’t have central air. Just lol
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    Originally Posted by bov188 View Post
    Call me old fashion but, what happened to just working for a living?
    Well, probably the fact that 7 million people have filed for unemployment due to a pandemic, not due to them choosing to not work and just saying " im tired of working just going to go home" and there clearly not being 7 million jobs available and looking to pay workers.
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    I'm starting to come around to the idea that something like this works... if:

    -You aren't sending billions away in foreign aid.
    -You aren't spending billions trying to police the world.
    -You have a population that is fairly intelligent and hard working.
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