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  1. #61
    Registered User Halfway's Avatar
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    Drumpf obviously coerced the FDA into backing him up.

    Again, I took this "dangerous" drug every week for years as a little kid and didnt go blind or start eating homeless peoples faces or whatever the NPCs claim it causes, because Orange Man
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  2. #62
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    Originally Posted by Maestro View Post
    didn't think it was worth a response, but if you insist;

    Its not like he pulled out a Pathophysiology text book, studied virology, and deduced that Plaquenil would work against the virus. He was told about the drug in a briefing by professionals in the field. His words have more pull than anyone, so he shouldn't have been so hasty to tout a cure (that was only had in-vitro results at the time), and maybe that crazy guy that drank the fish cleaner wouldn't have died Nor would people waste my and everyones time lining up at my pharmacy begging for the drug (even though its prescription only) when I have other patients to tend to.

    and regardless, Plaquenil is not something you should be eager to take just because its a "cure". That drug causes heart attacks and even blindness. So if you're willing to take that risk as opposed to just staying home then good luck with that.

    Did he say it was a cure? From what I remember he said it looks really promising and would be a game-changer if it ends up reducing severity. He said it might work and it might not, but that he happened to feel good about it. So what does that mean? Obviously that it’s his fault someone drank poison.
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  3. #63
    Anti-Circumcision JoshSP1985's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jtaylor2010 View Post
    Did he say it was a cure? From what I remember he said it looks really promising and would be a game-changer if it ends up reducing severity. He said it might work and it might not, but that he happened to feel good about it. So what does that mean? Obviously that it’s his fault someone drank poison.
    Don't forget in a TDS world the President trying to communicate a little hope is a bad thing.

    You would think with the previous administrations entire campaign message being "Hope" they would understand but no...
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  4. #64
    fat fukc Fishman15's Avatar
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    Watching the liberals squirming while trying to stay true to their OMB mantra is quite entertaining...
    Because it comes from China...that's why. It's not racist at all. It comes from Chyna!
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  5. #65
    bloatcel sdmk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Maestro View Post
    didn't think it was worth a response, but if you insist;

    Its not like he pulled out a Pathophysiology text book, studied virology, and deduced that Plaquenil would work against the virus. He was told about the drug in a briefing by professionals in the field. His words have more pull than anyone, so he shouldn't have been so hasty to tout a cure (that was only had in-vitro results at the time), and maybe that crazy guy that drank the fish cleaner wouldn't have died Nor would people waste my and everyones time lining up at my pharmacy begging for the drug (even though its prescription only) when I have other patients to tend to.

    and regardless, Plaquenil is not something you should be eager to take just because its a "cure". That drug causes heart attacks and even blindness. So if you're willing to take that risk as opposed to just staying home then good luck with that.
    it wasn't only in-vitro studies
    Trump's initial remarks on March 19 were based on this French paper published March 17
    https://www.mediterranee-infection.c...l_DOI_IJAA.pdf

    which was led by a world-class microbiology
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didier_Raoult

    and showed promising results



    There were some issues with the study, mainly the few people that dropped out before follow-up, but due to the time-constraints and situation I don't see anything wrong with Trump mentioning it as a potential treatment

    anecdotal reports have also shown results, like the New York doctor who's been using it to treat patients in his Orthodox Jew community

    biddies in track suits
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  6. #66
    Registered User rampagefc77's Avatar
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    Didn't trump sign a "right to try" bill when he entered office? Meaning if you have a potentially life threatening disease and there is the possibility that a medication might help, you should be allowed to take it, while assuming any risks that may come with the medication.
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  7. #67
    Registered User Ten_Hearts's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rampagefc77 View Post
    Didn't trump sign a "right to try" bill when he entered office? Meaning if you have a potentially life threatening disease and there is the possibility that a medication might help, you should be allowed to take it, while assuming any risks that may come with the medication.
    Right to Try pertain's to drugs undergoing clinical trials. So if I have a cancer therapy in phase II or III trials under this a person could potentially use the drug after exhausting approved options. I think it is also for terminally ill patients. So it wouldn't have necessarily applied in this case.
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  8. #68
    Custom User Title SWDeath's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bodhy View Post
    The link is there.


    But your neg confirms something that I've always believed; Trumpers are rarely, if ever, capable of an evidence and fact-based discussion with anyone. The second anyone dares to say something disapproving of Trump, we are treated to a fusillade of things like REEEEEEEEE!, "cuck!", "Bot!" "Shill! "Fake news!" "TDS!" "soy boy!" and more generally, just a black hole of ad hoc measures, self-reinforcing delusions and vitriol.
    You had no idea what you were talking about because trump was actually refering to it being used for malaria.

    And there is no link... you were wrong again.

    Being wrong on both require a neg.
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  9. #69
    Registered User JustTheDad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sdmk View Post
    it wasn't only in-vitro studies
    Trump's initial remarks on March 19 were based on this French paper published March 17
    https://www.mediterranee-infection.c...l_DOI_IJAA.pdf

    which was led by a world-class microbiology
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didier_Raoult

    and showed promising results



    There were some issues with the study, mainly the few people that dropped out before follow-up, but due to the time-constraints and situation I don't see anything wrong with Trump mentioning it as a potential treatment

    anecdotal reports have also shown results, like the New York doctor who's been using it to treat patients in his Orthodox Jew community

    I've been watching you guys debate this and not speaking up, because I didn't think there was a right or wrong here. Trump did speak up about hydroxychloroquine, and if you think doing so to give people hope is good, you can support that. You should realize, however, that there is currently no good data supporting that it works other than a small study in China and Raoult's study. The studies in China were small and not enough to get anyone to prescribe it outside a trial. Dr. Raoult's "study" was poorly designed, poorly executed, and they decided not to include all the data they had, quite possibly because it showed there wasn't any efficacy, so it sounds like they fudged the data hoping that the drug would work and that he'd be the first to have a study showing it did. Now he's treating hundreds of patients based on those "results". Realize that's not new for him. He's authored good research, but sadly, he has also authored really really bad research and showed graphs and gel's that were clearly faked. You don't get to leave out data points that don't support the result you want.

    If it turns out the drug works, no harm done.

    Because of the above, I've been asked if I could write a few prescriptions for hydroxychloroquine. It isn't, illegal for a doctor to prescribe a drug for an off label indication. Any doc could write a PRN script to take in the event concerning symptoms. No, I haven't written any scripts for it. I'm lucky right now in that I work on clinical trials, so I'm not on the "front lines" of this. I do have several friends and colleagues working 20 hour days on protocols related to SARS-CoV-2. Realize, that if a patient has taken any hydroxychloroquine, it's a confounder, and they can't go on some of the protocols.

    Patient got sick.
    Their doctor put them on hydroxychloroquine with no proven benefit because they figured it probably wouldn't hurt them and it "might" help them.
    Covid19 test was positive.
    Patient got worse.
    Patient admitted.
    Patient on a vent
    We can't get them drugs that seems to be much more likely to save their life anymore...

    In many cases we can't just put patients on both, so access protocols are trying to accommodate those patients.

    If Trump weighed those two issues and decided to speak up, against the advice of his medical advisers, that's a judgement call he made. Like I said at the start, there's no right or wrong there.

    The bottom line is, maybe we'll get lucky and hydroxychloroquine will save lives. At this point, with so little data, you're relying on luck more than evidence, and the odds are good we'll find out we wasted resources we could have used more effectively.

    When you look at that incredibly impressive graph, realize that Raoult's study didn't have an actual control arm that looked remotely similar to his test subjects. Also notice that he left out the data on the test patients who got worse. Clearly, their PCR results weren't negative, but they're not included. Patients who had positive tests after a negative test also weren't accounted for.

    Lots of patients are currently being treated with hydroxychloroquine. It seems odd nobody else is showing a statistical benefit when Raoult's is so dramatic. Right now, it's just the guy who doesn't like blinded controlled studies who's showing results, and his data is amazing... .
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  10. #70
    Verified Aesthetic rhadam's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bodhy View Post
    The link is there.


    But your neg confirms something that I've always believed; Trumpers are rarely, if ever, capable of an evidence and fact-based discussion with anyone. The second anyone dares to say something disapproving of Trump, we are treated to a fusillade of things like REEEEEEEEE!, "cuck!", "Bot!" "Shill! "Fake news!" "TDS!" "soy boy!" and more generally, just a black hole of ad hoc measures, self-reinforcing delusions and vitriol.
    Uh bud, your link doesn't even back up your initial claim here. Lol.
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  11. #71
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    All bs aside trump is the best president we've had in a very long.

    He can run his mouth about whatever he wants. He keeps making the right decisions.
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  12. #72
    Registered User Bodhy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jtaylor2010 View Post
    And now it is approved.... about 10 days later. So he obviously knew they would approve it. And you know why they are? Because it looks very promising, so if they didn’t you would say the administration didn’t move fast enough to save people. There are some people who will bitch no matter what happens.

    I never actually did call into question the efficacy of the drug. I said Trump made a misleading claim about FDA approval. My link basically recapitulates what I said.
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  13. #73
    Registered User Bodhy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ten_Hearts View Post
    Depends on Trumps wording. Completely valid to say we are investigating options or use of the drug. I would refrain from saying things along the lines of effectiveness of the drug.

    But this is from the prospective of in the industry if you make off label claims on a drug you can be sued, as had happened in the past.
    Trump's words:


    TRUMP: “And we’re going to be able to make that drug available almost immediately, and that’s where the FDA has been so great. They — they’ve gone through the approval process. It’s been approved.”

    THE FACTS: The drug, known chemically as chloroquine, has been available for decades to treat the mosquito-borne illness malaria. Technically, doctors can already prescribe the drug to patients with COVID-19, a practice known as off-label prescribing. But Trump falsely suggested to reporters that the FDA had just cleared the drug specifically for the viral pandemic spreading in communities across the U.S. That would mean that the drug had met the FDA’s standards for safety and effectiveness.
    Minutes later, FDA Commissioner Dr. Stephen Hahn emphasized that the drug still needs testing to determine if it can help patients. He said chloroquine would have to be tested in “a large pragmatic clinical trial to actually gather that information.” Drug trials typically require hundreds or thousands of patients and, even when accelerated, take weeks or months to complete. In his remarks, Hahn reflected on his background as a cancer doctor and warned against giving patients “false hope” before drugs are fully vetted.

    While chloroquine has shown promise in preliminary laboratory studies, some experts are skeptical it will prove effective in human testing.

    “I think it could be a game changer, and maybe not,” Trump said, discussing the drug. But the FDA reiterated in a statement Thursday that there are “no FDA-approved therapeutics or drugs to treat, cure or prevent COVID-19
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  14. #74
    Registered User Bodhy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SWDeath View Post
    You had no idea what you were talking about because trump was actually refering to it being used for malaria.
    .

    Did you read my link, or did you just assume it was left-wing propaganda? What you just said sounds like the epitome of desperation.
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    Chairman of the bored Postmort3m's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bodhy View Post
    What Trump did was make a misleading claim.

    Trump claimed it had been approved by the FDA and that it would be immediately available for treatment when it was only made available for clinical trial in the State of New York. He had said it was FDA-cleared for the pandemic spreading across communities in America.

    He said the drug had met the FDA safety standards for efficacy and safety. His remarks were irresponsible and wrong, that is why he was blasted.
    Source? Surely you will provide....

    And I mean besides the out of context one you’ve already tried
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    Originally Posted by BFast55 View Post
    When is the left on the right side of anything?
    This. They are the best indicator which side to pick. L's forever.
    President Trump is 73 and doesn't wear glasses. Wanna know why? Because he's got 2020....
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    The man just can not lose.

    Trump is a time traveler lmao.
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    Originally Posted by Postmort3m View Post
    Source? Surely you will provide....

    And I mean besides the out of context one you’ve already tried

    IMO, it is the height of desperation and probably indicative of losing contact with reality to suggest Trump was referring to the FDA's actions in 1955.

    If you read my link, the FDA chief contradicts and corrects what Trump said.
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  19. #79
    Maximum Effort gixxer0.6g's Avatar
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    Liberal everywhere.....nooooooo, we haven't even hit exponential growth yet. More people need to die!


    But srs, Trump is going to look like a time traveler if this turns out to be as good as people are saying.
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    We might find a cure for COVID-19

    but never find a cure for TDS.


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    No Agony, No Bragony JUSA's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rhadam View Post
    Can you post the clip of him saying that? If the above is true.. huge issue and irresponsible.
    Ask for clip, get a link to a fact-checker, so-called, that (as always) paraphrases Trump, which is the fuking problem in the first place.

    From the AP article, here is the quote from Trump since Bodhy is too TDS and lazy to even do that:

    Originally Posted by Trump
    “And we’re going to be able to make that drug available almost immediately, and that’s where the FDA has been so great. They — they’ve gone through the approval process. It’s been approved.”
    As it turns out it got approved days later. Was Trump saying it's been approved because he knew already, was he talking about it already having been approved because it had been for malaria or was he lying and making things up, and only through (once again) dumb luck proven right in the long run?

    Me, I do not know, the statement is vague and to draw any conclusion is impossible.

    Originally Posted by AP Article
    Technically, doctors can already prescribe the drug to patients with COVID-19, a practice known as off-label prescribing. But Trump falsely suggested to reporters that the FDA had just cleared the drug specifically for the viral pandemic spreading in communities across the U.S. That would mean that the drug had met the FDA’s standards for safety and effectiveness.
    He didn't, though and, again, as within 9 days later or somechit, it was approved specifically for covid, something good odds Trump was informed of already and knew was coming, anyway.

    So, conclusion: Bodhy is very, very dumb and his own link does nothing to prove him right, the neg I preemptively sent him was righteous and just and I am glad I did so. From here on out, be very careful reading anything Bodhy states as he has shown himself to be basically a rabid dog in terms of both intellect and also TDS-induced frothing of the mouth. Nasty, nasty guy.
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    Registered User Audioslave's Avatar
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    Hope this stuff works for some people but I'm extremely skeptical. Someone I know had COVID-19 and they gave him hydroxychloroquine but he got progressively worse and now I found out he passed away.
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    Originally Posted by Audioslave View Post
    Hope this stuff works for some people but I'm extremely skeptical. Someone I know had COVID-19 and they gave him hydroxychloroquine but he got progressively worse and now I found out he passed away.
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    Registered User Audioslave's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by wesleysh21 View Post
    I wouldn't expect you to.
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    No Agony, No Bragony JUSA's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Audioslave View Post
    Hope this stuff works for some people but I'm extremely skeptical. Someone I know had COVID-19 and they gave him hydroxychloroquine but he got progressively worse and now I found out he passed away.
    I do not think it cures everyone regardless of whatever stage they're in. Why do people somehow think that's how it ever works?

    Here's the deal, since my other post was deleted (along with the entire thread):

    Covid weakens your immune system. It actively turns it against you, targets your lungs and breaks down the protective lining of your lungs. Eventually, your immune system is depleted and your entire protective layer within your lungs is gone. You are at that point very ripe for bacteria, particularly pneumonia, to infect your lungs, they fill up with liquids, it spreads, you die.

    Even if you have successfully ended the coronavirus within you, you are left very vulnerable. This is one of the reasons people are being treated with antibiotics, which do nothing against a virus, but it's not the virus, it's the way you are left after dealing with it. Weak and vulnerable.

    In the case of this person you claim you knew who had it, got treated and died nonetheless, we do not know what stage they were in. We do not know how soon they were treated. We do not know what condition their health was in prior to getting sick. All these things are factors, ones you didn't mention.

    It is entirely possible that they were too old and weak to begin with, that even with treatment they would have not been able to finish the viral invasion quick enough. It is entirely possible that by the time they were treated they wear already compromised. We simply do not know.

    What we do hope, however, is that this treatment will help end the viral infection quick enough that people will recover faster, and if they recover faster they are much better off. They are less likely to be depleted and susceptible to disease and death.

    It's not a cure-all, though. Some people will get treatment too late. Some people will be too weak and vulnerable to begin with. Some people will already be compromised and not respond. While it, hopefully, will help many people recover, some people will die regardless. This does not mean it's not a great thing, though.
    Last edited by JUSA; 03-31-2020 at 07:47 AM.
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    Time to Work litljay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Audioslave View Post
    Hope this stuff works for some people but I'm extremely skeptical. Someone I know had COVID-19 and they gave him hydroxychloroquine but he got progressively worse and now I found out he passed away.
    How did you find out what was prescribed to a Covid-19 patient that was obviously critical?

    *Edit - This is complete rumor/can't remember where I read it, but have heard/read that if the drug is administered early it is helpful, but not much help in already critical patients.
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    Registered User Audioslave's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by litljay View Post
    How did you find out what was prescribed to a Covid-19 patient that was obviously critical?
    I found out through his family. No, I did not speak to his doctors nor do I have a doctors note that I can post on this website as proof.
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    No Agony, No Bragony JUSA's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by litljay View Post
    *Edit - This is complete rumor/can't remember where I read it, but have heard/read that if the drug is administered early it is helpful, but not much help in already critical patients.
    I am far from an expert, but this would make sense. Covid-19, it spreads rapidly, your own immune system wrecks havoc within you, specifically targeting your lungs. As I said above (in a long post, so I'll be short here): at some point your immune system is worn out, your protective lung lining is completely obliterated and you are ripe to get infected by outside bacteria that normally your body can defend against (pneumonia).

    If ever you get to the point that you are vulnerable like that, it's not even the coronavirus at that point that is the problem. Treatment or your own ability to recover, it has to kick in prior to that, if it doesn't then you are very vulnerable.

    So, really, the more weak you are the sooner you need treatment and the greater your risks are overall of having covid wear you down and leave you open to pneumonia. In that light, yeah, the sooner you get this the better your odds will be, if it helps you recover quicker.
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    Originally Posted by JUSA View Post
    I do not think it cures everyone regardless of whatever stage they're in. Why do people somehow think that's how it ever works?

    Here's the deal, since my other post was deleted (along with the entire thread):

    Covid weakens your immune system. It actively turns it against you, targets your lungs and breaks down the protective lining of your lungs. Eventually, your immune system is depleted and your entire protective layer within your lungs is gone. You are at that point very ripe for bacteria, particularly pneumonia, to infect your lungs, they fill up with liquids, it spreads, you die.

    Even if you have successfully ended the coronavirus within you, you are left very vulnerable. This is one of the reasons people are being treated with antibiotics, which do nothing against a virus, but it's not the virus, it's the way you are left after dealing with it. Weak and vulnerable.

    In the case of this person you claim you knew who had it, got treated and died nonetheless, we do not know what stage they were in. We do not know how soon they were treated. We do not know what condition their health was in prior to getting sick. All these things are factors, ones you didn't mention.

    It is entirely possible that they were too old and weak to begin with, that even with treatment they would have not been able to finish the viral invasion quick enough. It is entirely possible that by the time they were treated they wear already compromised. We simply do not know.

    What we do hope, however, is that this treatment will help end the viral infection quick enough that people will recover faster, and if they recover faster they are much better off. They are less likely to be depleted and susceptible to disease and death.

    It's not a cure-all, though. Some people will get treatment too late. Some people will be too weak and vulnerable to begin with. Some people will already be compromised and not respond. While it, hopefully, will help many people recover, some people will die regardless. This does not mean it's not a great thing, though.
    I really mean it when I say that I hope it works for some people. I'm skeptical because the only person I know who has taken it for COVID-19 has died - doesn't mean I don't think it can work for others. I was simply sharing my experience of the day. I live in NY. My family is working essential jobs in NYC. So yeah, if I found out there was a drug that may work.... I couldn't explain how happy it would make me.

    BTW, the person you say I "claim" I know who just passed away.... I do not know if they had any underlying conditions (none that I know of but I don't know their medical history). I can tell you that they were under 60 years old. However, I cannot tell you how far into the virus they were when they were given hydroxychloroquine. I was only told that they were given it and then the next status update I got was that they were getting progressively worse and then I just found out they had died.

    I just spoke to another friend today whose family member just died from it. And it's just shocking to me how young some of these people are who are dying from it here. NY is not a great place to be right now. It's easy for guys like wesleysh21 to stick their heads in the sand and try to make jokes via gifs about people's lives because his area hasn't been hit so hard by it yet but this forum isn't exactly known for people with class, so I have to just disregard it.
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    No Agony, No Bragony JUSA's Avatar
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    I'm not making jokes or anything, not that you said I was, but just stating that in that you and I are not separate. I have a friend, his father was in Washington in one of the quarantined old folks homes, who died. This was back when less than 1,000 people nationwide had passed, so I knew it wasn't something to laugh about even then.

    Yes, I did put quotes around "claim" (or didn't and just was sure to point out that this was just a claim on your part), not specifically to imply you are a liar, I don't know, but to mostly put it in perspective. You answered all the questions I asked to the best of your knowledge and also replied to my post (which I guess you'd have had to), which I can respect, but the point also stands that you really didn't know (other than he wasn't super old).

    In any event, I made my point, that this drug may be helpful (hopefully) but it isn't a miracle, either. Some people are going to die, regardless of how early they get it or how effective the drug may be for others, which is sad, BUT if this drug is helpful, that means a lot of people who would have died may survive. A lot of people who own their own or with other treatment wouldn't have been able to fight it off quick enough, with this drug will, speculatively.
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