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  1. #31
    Verified Aesthetic rhadam's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Techriding101 View Post
    Right now you can buy a printer for $200. Spool of filament for $20. One spool can create roughly 5 pistol OR rifle lowers. At that point you are adding OEM parts to finish it. I was in the market to buy a poly80 kit before realizing those companies charge $150 for their frame, which is nearly the cost of a 3d printer.

    Right now on ebay the smith&wesson sd9 upper/slide/lower parts kit is selling for less than $130

    In the end, it's still easier and cheaper if you just want a gun, to go on gunbroker and buy a stolen/lost pistol for $150. I doubt criminals will ever 3d print guns because in the end it is still more of a hobby, you have to troubleshoot and tune the machines, things can **** up, parts dont fit etc.

    The documentation I am referring to is that these files have been alive for nearly a decade. And the ones being printed now are the same ones that were being printed 10 years ago with light modification done to them
    Are you speaking of Wilson and Defense Distributed's CAD files for the Liberator? That was 2013 or 2014 right? I had no idea that the printing process as of now could produce a rifle lower so cheap. I was still under the impression that a quality printer for good fabrication would run a few thousand. The concern for the feds is the ability to produce a weapon without any metal, which can be done, and has been done to thwart security systems in this country, England, and Israel (which we all know has solid defense infrastructure) to name a few. Looking at more up to date I can see where you're coming from, the technique and IT required to properly build a complete weapon is way out of the question for your garden variety criminal.

    I've used gunbroker to purchase a few weapons, I was under the assumption they regulate the sellers quite well. Easier to buy a stolen firearm from a buddy or fence than risk a setup by the ATF on an auction website. The majority of the firearms we catch have been secured through a home break-in.
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  2. #32
    Starvation Mode GO! NitrogenWidget's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Seatard View Post
    You ever try to copy money on your printer?

    You can assemble your own 3d printer, you sure as fuk aren't going to manufacture your own cpu to run the thing.
    takes an arduino and a stepper controller or even a raspberry pie to run a 3d printer.
    they going to start regulating every hobbiest SOC board and stepper controllers?
    LOL!

    you really are ignorant on many of the subjects you comment on.
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  3. #33
    Starvation Mode GO! NitrogenWidget's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by wincel View Post
    You know anyone can make bombs too, right? Yet the govt has done a pretty decent job cracking down on that. Like making explosives is literally the easiest chit.
    or, maybe there just aren't as many people that want to build bombs?

    FYI - you can make explosives from table sugar.

    I don't see that regulated.
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  4. #34
    Registered User Techriding101's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rhadam View Post
    Are you speaking of Wilson and Defense Distributed's CAD files for the Liberator? That was 2013 or 2014 right? I had no idea that the printing process as of now could produce a rifle lower so cheap. I was still under the impression that a quality printer for good fabrication would run a few thousand. The concern for the feds is the ability to produce a weapon without any metal, which can be done, and has been done to thwart security systems in this country, England, and Israel (which we all know has solid defense infrastructure) to name a few. Looking at more up to date I can see where you're coming from, the technique and IT required to properly build a complete weapon is way out of the question for your garden variety criminal.

    I've used gunbroker to purchase a few weapons, I was under the assumption they regulate the sellers quite well. Easier to buy a stolen firearm from a buddy or fence than risk a setup by the ATF on an auction website. The majority of the firearms we catch have been secured through a home break-in.
    In my state pistols can be sold with zero paperwork from one private buyer to the next.

    I am referring to the ar15 lower files that have been available for quite some time.

    The liberator was more proof of concept than anything, it can only fire 1 round. I don't think any work is being done to ever make 'ghost weapons' practical. The amount of work required to make it as use. Right now it seems the majority of effort is being placed to work around current gun control laws to make weapons that are on par with real fire arms, thus replicating poly80 lower style prints and then finishing with non-regulated OEM parts. So if the government really wanted to clamp down, the US would need to be more like europe in the sense that every firearm part is regulated. The point of the FCG-9 is to even make it available to people who also face those types of regulations.
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  5. #35
    Registered User Seatard's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NitrogenWidget View Post
    takes an arduino and a stepper controller or even a raspberry pie to run a 3d printer.
    they going to start regulating every hobbiest SOC board and stepper controllers?
    LOL!

    you really are ignorant on many of the subjects you comment on.
    You asked "how" they would regulate, and I gave an example of how it could be regulated, by regulating the manufacturers.

    Not sure why you moved the goalposts to "if" they would regulate and then made it personal. But whatever.
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  6. #36
    Starvation Mode GO! NitrogenWidget's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Seatard View Post
    You asked "how" they would regulate, and I gave an example of how it could be regulated, by regulating the manufacturers.

    Not sure why you moved the goalposts to "if" they would regulate and then made it personal. But whatever.
    you made yourself look stupid again and now YOU are the one moving the goal posts.
    LOL!

    what an ignoramus.
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  7. #37
    Registered User Techriding101's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Seatard View Post
    You asked "how" they would regulate, and I gave an example of how it could be regulated, by regulating the manufacturers.

    Not sure why you moved the goalposts to "if" they would regulate and then made it personal. But whatever.
    just regulate crime bro

    Last edited by Techriding101; 03-30-2020 at 05:05 AM.
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  8. #38
    Registered User Techriding101's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rhadam View Post
    I wonder if this will lead to the feds changing the law on not requiring serial numbers for home made guns. To my knowledge (see: what we've been briefed on) until this point 3d printed firearms weren't reliable.. this changes things.
    Also. Here is a write up I'm regards to liberator vs now

    http://armamentresearch.com/ares-rel...ktop-firearms/

    On 5 May 2013, Defense Distributed—a self-described “…private defense contractor in service of the general public”—released the data for an almost entirely 3D-printed firearm , christened the ‘Liberator’. From that point onwards, 3D printing of firearms and firearm components began to proliferate. Today’s designs, however, have advanced a long way from their progenitor of less than a decade earlier. The barriers to entry have been dramatically lowered, and emergent technologies such as electrochemical machining (ECM) and desktop/micro-CNC have paved the way for the average person to craft-produce, with a little perseverance, capable self-loading hybrid firearms such as the FGC-9. Individuals can increasingly obtain firearms without having to access criminal networks or legally controlled firearms distribution channels, maintaining anonymity and independence.

    It is highly likely that the FGC-9 is simply the first of a new wave of cheap, nearly-entirely-homemade 3D-printable firearm designs which solve material limitations by incorporating readily available metal components and unregulated firearms parts. This new breed of design offers adopters a cheap and effective firearm that is very difficult to trace, and may have the potential to rival or outstrip previous trends in the acquisition of illegal firearms modified from replica and deactivated firearms—themselves subject to increasing legislation. There are very limited control options for restricting access to the materials or design files used in craft-producing such weapons, and progressively more affordable machines and tools—as well as ongoing refinement of techniques—are likely to make their continued development and acquisition increasingly commonplace. As technical hurdles are raidly overcome, rifle-calibre firearms requiring strong locking actions—previously the preserve of factories—may soon be produced in the same low-tech manner as the FGC-9.
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  9. #39
    Cthulhu fhtagn GreatOldOne's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Techriding101 View Post
    My point is, why would you take an 'experts' opinion when the documentation available to you says otherwise. At this point you and your brilliant buddies are just sticking your head in the ground while calling yourselves experts.

    Edit on the clarification. The barrier for entry is LOW. You can buy premade CNC machines for $500 that are already setup to create and finish 80% lowers

    https://ghostgunner.net/product/ghost-gunner-3-deposit/



    So ban motors and belts...genius idea. Hopefully you realize the average childrens toy that has moving parts uses the same parts as a 3d printer. Not sure why i expected the resident contrarian to contribute anything more to the discussion other than 'just ban it!" "oh that too!' "ban that too!"
    I think they will figure out how to regulate it, yeah.

    I don't think they'll ban individual components, but perhaps make owning all of them illegal the same way it might be illegal to own all the disassembled parts of a SBR.
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  10. #40
    Registered User Boxman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Techriding101 View Post
    its a small machine with 2 small motors and 2 pully systems. Cost $200
    That's never stopped them before. Weed literally grows like, well, a weed and they went after it anyway.
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  11. #41
    Registered User Techriding101's Avatar
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    extended lockdown bump
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  12. #42
    Platinum User chaunce54's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Techriding101 View Post
    extended lockdown bump
    Can you PM them to me? I don't want my IP address showing up there.

    This will help since I lost all of my other firearms in a boating accident last summer.
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