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  1. #1
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    Why aren’t the Belgian, Chinese, Soviet, and Turkish genocides taught?

    Everyone is taught about Germany’s genocide, however genocides committed by the Belgians, Soviets, and Chinese far and away surpass what Germany did.

    Belgium in the Congo: 10 million killed
    USSR: 20 million killed
    China: 45 million killed
    Turkey: 1.5 million killed
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    Better than you DDSF1's Avatar
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    They are taught, especially the Armenian and Belgian ones. The Soviet and Chinese ones are tricky because a lot of professors are leftists and either downplay severely or ignore Bolshevik and Maoist killing. There are professors that do teach it though.

    Why would you make up something that you no have clue about?

    Germany is held up as an example because they specifically targeted Jews, Slavs, and Gypsies and it was an advanced western nation.

    The Japanese unfortunately get a pass which is not right. They killed many Chinese and Koreans.
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    Most of what you learn of history in school is whitewashed bullchit. If they told u what really happened, you'd pretty much hate all govts and politicians.
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    Originally Posted by DDSF1 View Post
    They are taught, especially the Armenian and Belgian ones. The Soviet and Chinese ones are tricky because a lot of professors are leftists and either downplay severely or ignore Bolshevik and Maoist killing. There are professors that do teach it though.

    Why would you make up something that you no have clue about?

    Germany is held up as an example because they specifically targeted Jews, Slavs, and Gypsies and it was an advanced western nation.

    The Japanese unfortunately get a pass which is not right. They killed many Chinese and Koreans.

    Which schools are teaching them? Most people have never heard of these various genocides, so if they haven’t heard of them then they’re not being taught.

    Sure, you might find a single class taught at a university, but it’s not widespread. Anecdotally, I don’t recall the subject coming up in my colleges world history class, especially the Belgian genocide.
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    Originally Posted by DDSF1 View Post
    Anothe guy making stuff up. Holodmor is actually one of the big things taught in Soviet history classes. The killing under Lenin is what is usually downplayed or ignored—sadly, because they love Lenin in academia. Since Stalin is too much of a nationalist for liberal academics, holodmor and other slaughters under his watch are taught and highlighted.
    Where is it taught? I wasn’t told about it in high school or college
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    Originally Posted by MuscleXtreme View Post
    Which schools are teaching them? Most people have never heard of these various genocides, so if they haven’t heard of them then they’re not being taught.

    Sure, you might find a single class taught at a university, but it’s not widespread. Anecdotally, I don’t recall the subject coming up in my colleges world history class, especially the Belgian genocide.
    They are standard in upper division undergrad and absolutely part of the curriculum in grad level at state or private uni’s. Most people are not going to school and most that do are not history, philosophy, or political science majors. They are absolutely widespread, many academic scholarly books and journal articles have been written about all of those massacres.
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    Originally Posted by LatinoWarrior2 View Post
    Where is it taught? I wasn’t told about it in high school or college
    You took upper division or grad level history, philosophy, or political science classes?
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    Are American kids taught about the Native American genocides, OP?
    I ain't no consarned religious fool, or such.

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    Originally Posted by dakensta View Post
    Are American kids taught about the Native American genocides, OP?
    Not op but Yes, they are.
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    Originally Posted by DDSF1 View Post
    They are standard in upper division undergrad and absolutely part of the curriculum in grad level at state or private uni’s. Most people are not going to school and most that do are not history, philosophy, or political science majors. They are absolutely widespread, many academic scholarly books and journal articles have been written about all of those massacres.
    I literally just looked at the course catalog for ASU’s history department, the closest I could find is “The Soviet Experiment”, and “From Stalin to Putin”. Maybe they would touch on the subject.

    I went to UA’s course catalog, they had a whole course on the Holocaust, and a course “History if human sexuality” and another of “Women in Islam”, but nothing specific to Soviets, Mao, or Belgians, or even genocide in general.

    Yeah, I’m not doubting that people have written books or studies written. I’m saying they aren’t being taught widely enough. I just posted two major universities and neither have classes on them at either the graduate or undergraduate level.

    I agree, that people aren’t going to college and don’t study them from there. But it’s not being taught at the high school level or middle school level. Everyone knows who Hitler is, but if you say Leopold, they’ll say “who”?
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    Originally Posted by dakensta View Post
    Are American kids taught about the Native American genocides, OP?

    Yeah, I remember learning about the Trail of Tears in middle school, in AP US History, and again in my college US History class. Native American history was widely taught.
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    Originally Posted by DDSF1 View Post
    You took upper division or grad level history, philosophy, or political science classes?
    No, computer science. Why do I know about the holocaust and not these other atrocities where far more people died?

    Why aren’t there memorial museums all over my city?
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    Genocides are fairly recent and most history classes stop after the industrial age...
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    Originally Posted by rectifryer View Post
    Genocides are fairly recent
    lol, killing a whole bunch of people because.. you know... you want to, is a relatively new thing. I think we invented it in like, the 1960s?
    I ain't no consarned religious fool, or such.

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    Originally Posted by dakensta View Post
    lol, killing a whole bunch of people because.. you know... you want to, is a relatively new thing. I think we invented it in like, the 1960s?
    Genghis Khan was really a Mongolian Rock Star that went on a really bad drug binge in the 70s, gained a huge following, murdered a couple people, and laid his seed into every corner of the Earth.
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    But who was the Mongols?

    Edit: Gandalf up there.
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    Originally Posted by MuscleXtreme View Post
    I literally just looked at the course catalog for ASU’s history department, the closest I could find is “The Soviet Experiment”, and “From Stalin to Putin”. Maybe they would touch on the subject.

    I went to UA’s course catalog, they had a whole course on the Holocaust, and a course “History if human sexuality” and another of “Women in Islam”, but nothing specific to Soviets, Mao, or Belgians, or even genocide in general.

    Yeah, I’m not doubting that people have written books or studies written. I’m saying they aren’t being taught widely enough. I just posted two major universities and neither have classes on them at either the graduate or undergraduate level.

    I agree, that people aren’t going to college and don’t study them from there. But it’s not being taught at the high school level or middle school level. Everyone knows who Hitler is, but if you say Leopold, they’ll say “who”?
    Courses are rarely taught over and over again every semester in the upper division or grad level unless the school or dept. have that topic as a focus. So, for example Mao and the killing in communist china will be taught in 20th century china courses or modern china courses (either 1644 or 1800 until today). That course would be taught once every 2-4 semesters unless as mentioned the school is famous for Chinese studies or Chinese history or a professor on staff is a recognized Chinese history scholar. Native American genocide is also frequently taught in Native studies/history courses. I know personally a school that has a focus on that.

    The holocaust is seen so often because it is an advanced western nation that specifically targeted its own domestic population and other European ones--Jews, Slavs, and gypsies. that is considered unusual. The last few years Holocaust classes are being combined with Armenian genocide classes. A school I will be teaching at next Spring will be offering a graduate level Holocaust and Genocide class for future professors (focus will be on holocaust, Armenian genocide, Cambodian genocide). I will be teaching one component in the class (four lectures) on National Socialist political theory. I know two schools that have history classes that focus on colonial genocide in Africa and the Belgian one is a big one. And, you are right that Leopold should be a household name. Completely off subject, but for an interesting read, find online Newt Gingrich's phd dissertation, it is on Belgian colonial education in the Congo.

    Who gets a pass oddly in all this, is Japan. Strange as it is, they are rarely mentioned, in regards to what they did to Korea and China.

    Also, I generally agree with your overall notion, these massacres should be far more well-known and should be taught at lower levels (HS and MS). I think though you mistake how upper education works. I am not defending the system, I have a lot problems with it too, but this is more because of lowering educational standards to pander to sjw/liberal ideas of education--feminist and women's rights classes, gender studies, queer studies, etc. They have all taken the place of legitimate classes.

    My uni taught only a basic survey class of medieval philosophy once every couple years. And it is known as a philosophy powerhouse. However, every semester there is philosophy of gender and sex or "being queer in America" type classes.


    edit--I forgot to mention this, American uni's had a lot of victims of the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, and Communist China who were professors from the 50s-90s, however, they have been dying off and replaced with domestic leftists who have agenda's. This makes a huge difference in how the institutions of academia approach education, especially for the younger ages. This is a problem. The classes are taught and the incidents are known at the upper levels, its just not as overt as feminist garbage. Sad.

    To reiterate, I actually agree with you in that more about the incidents listed should taught. It's just that they are currently not widespread enough to meet that appropriate standard that should be met, and, that is not because they are not known or someone is specifically against many of them (except Lenin's atrocities because they adore him-serious!) it just that there is so much worthless stuff making its way into the curriculum.
    Last edited by DDSF1; 03-27-2020 at 11:14 PM.
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    Originally Posted by LatinoWarrior2 View Post
    No, computer science. Why do I know about the holocaust and not these other atrocities where far more people died?

    Why aren’t there memorial museums all over my city?
    Because the Holocaust is a genocide intimately intertwined with America and there are many Jews and Slavic people in America who were impacted by the Nazi's. As far as monuments, I don't know what city you live in, but you can do as the Jewish population did--organize and pursue public policy legislation at the municipal or state level in support of the massacre that you feel deserves a memorial. The Armenian population has been striving for memorials to their genocide and has made huge leaps in notoriety in the recent years. It is becoming standard curriculum slowly in many Uni's. This will continue in the future.
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    Originally Posted by iabs View Post
    But who was the Mongols?

    Edit: Gandalf up there.
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    I thought it was only STEM or bust? I learned about all of these genocides and more in school.
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    The Armenian genocide is a hoax, but the holocaust is very real, of course carried out by right wing Nazis.
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    Because you don't know what genocide means. And secondly, there is limited instruction time. To add something you must get rid of something else. So what will you replace?
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    America First. XterraRob's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ltsOgre View Post
    The Armenian genocide is a hoax, but the holocaust is very real, of course carried out by right wing Nazis.
    Do you believe current right/left wing politics in the US mirror that of Nazi Germany pre-WW2?
    Wincel: "I'm saying even the govt of China, while brutal at times, is NOT our enemy. Period."
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    Originally Posted by XterraRob View Post
    The board is set, the pieces are moving.

    We come to it at last, the Great Battle of our time.
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    And my ring
    I ain't no consarned religious fool, or such.

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    Originally Posted by DDSF1 View Post
    Courses are rarely taught over and over again every semester in the upper division or grad level unless the school or dept. have that topic as a focus. So, for example Mao and the killing in communist china will be taught in 20th century china courses or modern china courses (either 1644 or 1800 until today). That course would be taught once every 2-4 semesters unless as mentioned the school is famous for Chinese studies or Chinese history or a professor on staff is a recognized Chinese history scholar. Native American genocide is also frequently taught in Native studies/history courses. I know personally a school that has a focus on that.

    The holocaust is seen so often because it is an advanced western nation that specifically targeted its own domestic population and other European ones--Jews, Slavs, and gypsies. that is considered unusual. The last few years Holocaust classes are being combined with Armenian genocide classes. A school I will be teaching at next Spring will be offering a graduate level Holocaust and Genocide class for future professors (focus will be on holocaust, Armenian genocide, Cambodian genocide). I will be teaching one component in the class (four lectures) on National Socialist political theory. I know two schools that have history classes that focus on colonial genocide in Africa and the Belgian one is a big one. And, you are right that Leopold should be a household name. Completely off subject, but for an interesting read, find online Newt Gingrich's phd dissertation, it is on Belgian colonial education in the Congo.

    Who gets a pass oddly in all this, is Japan. Strange as it is, they are rarely mentioned, in regards to what they did to Korea and China.

    Also, I generally agree with your overall notion, these massacres should be far more well-known and should be taught at lower levels (HS and MS). I think though you mistake how upper education works. I am not defending the system, I have a lot problems with it too, but this is more because of lowering educational standards to pander to sjw/liberal ideas of education--feminist and women's rights classes, gender studies, queer studies, etc. They have all taken the place of legitimate classes.

    My uni taught only a basic survey class of medieval philosophy once every couple years. And it is known as a philosophy powerhouse. However, every semester there is philosophy of gender and sex or "being queer in America" type classes.


    edit--I forgot to mention this, American uni's had a lot of victims of the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, and Communist China who were professors from the 50s-90s, however, they have been dying off and replaced with domestic leftists who have agenda's. This makes a huge difference in how the institutions of academia approach education, especially for the younger ages. This is a problem. The classes are taught and the incidents are known at the upper levels, its just not as overt as feminist garbage. Sad.

    To reiterate, I actually agree with you in that more about the incidents listed should taught. It's just that they are currently not widespread enough to meet that appropriate standard that should be met, and, that is not because they are not known or someone is specifically against many of them (except Lenin's atrocities because they adore him-serious!) it just that there is so much worthless stuff making its way into the curriculum.

    Yeah you definitely raise a good point in regards to course rotation. I was just looking at a snapshot of the upcoming fall semester for those schools, no idea what was taught for this spring or fall ‘19 semester.

    I was thinking Holocaust was taught more because it was so systematic and efficient for the sole purpose of extermination, whereas the others were more a result of pure brutality and not as systematic, however a sharing of a similar viewpoint that another group was sub-human allowing for easier extermination or justification for the brutality and any death from that group was inconsequential. I had no idea that Armenian genocide was being taught along with the Holocaust now.

    From my anecdotal experience, the Japanese atrocities and specifically Unit 731 were called out in my AP US History class, and in my University WWII history class, but I can’t speak to what others were taught. However, no mention of Leopold, etc.

    That’s fair, I think we’re in agreement on where there is a lack of teaching on these subjects (middle/high school) and that a lot of these courses at the university level are removed or pushed out in favor of gender history classes.

    As a side note, I had two really awesome professors that stick out to me. My Game Theory Political Science professor, was Russian and lived under the Soviets, he definitely was no fan of communism/socialism and let it be known. Game Theory was an awesome class, and I can’t recommend people learning more about it, it puts into perspective a lot of the political moves that are made. Second, I had a Finance professor that was from Iran, who was able to leave right before 1979 - again, he was no fan of the theocracy there and would bash on the Iranian government left and right.

    Edit: I agree with you on the lowering of educational standards. I should create another post on some of beefs currently with the university system (lowering of educational standards, student loans, etc). I sometimes wonder if the college education received by those from 1960 and under were better than 1960+. I chalk that up to Frankfurt school, beatnik, infiltration into academia though.
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    Typically the winners of war get to write history
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    People are fairly ignorant of the great African wars.

    And they're still not done fighting their world war yet...

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    We know more about the Holocaust than those other genocides. The other genocides you’ve listed have one thing in common—the US was not involved in establishing the subsequent government that followed.
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    Because the only one that matters is the Holocaust we can never forget the 6 billion Jews who were killed via rollercoasters of death and masturbation machines
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    its called world war one and the independence war
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