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    Official $2T Coronavirus Relief Bill Discussion Thread

    The House of Representatives is set to vote on this thing tomorrow. If anyone has been paying attention to this, let's hear your thoughts. POLITICS ASIDE.


    I'll start with my kneejerk reaction. I think it really needs to be more needs based. Perhaps each state could set up a website and this could be done on a needs basis; starting with people who have been laid off.

    My fiance will be getting $1,200 and she doesn't need it. She made just under $75k last year, yet together we make over the $198K. Not complaining as we are planning on doing something charitable with it, but it seems like money is just being thrown around.
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    Originally Posted by bustasinclair View Post
    I'll start with my kneejerk reaction. I think it really needs to be more needs based. Perhaps each state could set up a website and this could be done on a needs basis; starting with people who have been laid off.
    Yeah, that is my reaction too. Seems like it should be focused on those directly impacted by the virus as opposed to just giving everybody within a certain income range a check.
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    Yeah, I agree. Needs based would be better, but that would require more thought and planning.... 1200 or whatever isn’t going to do much for someone who is now out of a job and didn’t have emergency funds. I do think the economy will bounce back relatively quickly, but this will financially ruin many small business owners.
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    Originally Posted by Karl_Hungus View Post
    Yeah, that is my reaction too. Seems like it should be focused on those directly impacted by the virus as opposed to just giving everybody within a certain income range a check.
    Exactly, it makes no sense to me.
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    Full text here for those of us who need help falling asleep.

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-...bill/6201/text


    Bullet points here:

    1) Give one-time direct payments of up to $1,200 for individuals and $2,400 for couples, with $500 added for every child, based on 2019 tax returns for those who filed them and 2018 information if they have not. The benefit would start to phase out above $75,000 in income for individuals and $150,000 for couples, going away completely at the $99,000 and $198,000 thresholds, respectively.
    2) Boost unemployment insurance, adding $600 per week for up to four months on top of what beneficiaries normally receive from states. It expands eligibility to self-employed people and independent contractors.
    3) Create a $500 billion pool of taxpayer money to make loans, loan guarantees or investments to or in businesses, states and municipalities damaged by the crisis.
    4) Give $25 billion in grants to airlines and $4 billion to cargo carriers to be used exclusively to pay employee wages, salaries and benefits, and set aside another $25 billion and $4 billion, respectively, for loans and loan guarantees.
    5) Provide $17 billion in loans and loan guarantees for unspecified “businesses critical to maintaining national security.”
    6) Put $117 billion into hospitals and veterans’ health care.
    7) Provide $16 billion for the strategic national stockpile of pharmaceutical and medical supplies.
    8) Give $350 billion in loans for small businesses to cover salary, wages and benefits, worth 250% of an employer’s monthly payroll, with a maximum loan of $10 million.
    9) Include a tax credit for retaining employees, worth up to 50% of wages paid during the crisis, for businesses forced to suspend operations or that have seen gross receipts fall by 50% from the previous year.
    10) Require group health plans and insurance providers to cover preventive services related to coronavirus without cost sharing.
    11) Delay payroll tax for employers, requiring half of the deferred tax to be paid by the end of 2021 and the other half by the end of 2022.
    12) Ban companies that take government loans from buying back stock until a year after the loan is paid back.
    13) Bar employees or executives who made at least $425,000 last year from getting a raise.
    14) Stop President Donald Trump and his family members’ businesses from receiving emergency taxpayer relief. The provision also applies to Vice President Mike Pence, heads of executive departments, members of Congress and their family members.
    15) Suspend federal student loan payments through Sept. 30 with no accrual of interest on those loans.
    Last edited by bustasinclair; 03-26-2020 at 12:41 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    Yeah, I agree. Needs based would be better, but that would require more thought and planning.... 1200 or whatever isn’t going to do much for someone who is now out of a job and didn’t have emergency funds. I do think the economy will bounce back relatively quickly, but this will financially ruin many small business owners.
    Coupled with the increase in time/money of unemployment I'd think its just fine for now?

    From what I've read the means testing would have cost more than just sending the checks. Either way, don't need it then donate to a local charity/hospital. Easy peasy.
    Last edited by Jtbny; 03-26-2020 at 12:55 PM.
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    Originally Posted by bustasinclair View Post
    Exactly, it makes no sense to me.
    The part that didn't make sense to me was the actual unemployment piece of the stimulus. It says the unemployed person gets the normal state allotted unemployment PLUS an additional $600 per week (for up to another 4 months).

    So if you use my state (MN) and an example of a person who made $1000 per week.

    For 4 months, that person would actually make more $ being unemployed than back as full-time employee.

    MN's unemployment is 60% of your old pay (obviously up to a limit/cap). But in this example it would be $600. Now add the additional $600 from the Fed's and that person is now earning $1200 a week.
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    Originally Posted by bustasinclair View Post
    Exactly, it makes no sense to me.
    Flip side is, people who dont need it, will probably spend it, which is good for the economy also.

    Not sure what other way would be better (to assess need) across mass population than income level. The management of trying to assess needs individually would take a whole additional division of govt...and be slow and probably miss just as many people.


    In times like crisis, broad-brush may be the best way. Dont really know...but just saying.

    As long as it does not give 700billion to banks with no accountability as happened in the past!
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    Originally Posted by ajdahlheimer View Post
    The part that didn't make sense to me was the actual unemployment piece of the stimulus. It says the unemployed person gets the normal state allotted unemployment PLUS an additional $600 per week (for up to another 4 months).

    So if you use my state (MN) and an example of a person who made $1000 per week.

    For 4 months, that person would actually make more $ being unemployed than back as full-time employee.

    MN's unemployment is 60% of your old pay (obviously up to a limit/cap). But in this example it would be $600. Now add the additional $600 from the Fed's and that person is now earning $1200 a week.
    I thought they added a provision where the amount received couldn't exceed the normal pay. That was one major sticking point yesterday. Maybe it didn't make it in the final version?
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    Originally Posted by ajdahlheimer View Post
    The part that didn't make sense to me was the actual unemployment piece of the stimulus. It says the unemployed person gets the normal state allotted unemployment PLUS an additional $600 per week (for up to another 4 months).

    So if you use my state (MN) and an example of a person who made $1000 per week.

    For 4 months, that person would actually make more $ being unemployed than back as full-time employee.

    MN's unemployment is 60% of your old pay (obviously up to a limit/cap). But in this example it would be $600. Now add the additional $600 from the Fed's and that person is now earning $1200 a week.
    That is pretty disturbing!

    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    Flip side is, people who dont need it, will probably spend it, which is good for the economy also.

    Not sure what other way would be better (to assess need) across mass population than income level. The management of trying to assess needs individually would take a whole additional division of govt...and be slow and probably miss just as many people.


    In times like crisis, broad-brush may be the best way. Dont really know...but just saying.

    As long as it does not give 700billion to banks with no accountability as happened in the past!
    Agreed on the $700B.

    I was thinking about making the states responsible for coordinating the payments to individuals. I dunno, just a thought.
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    Originally Posted by Jtbny View Post
    I thought they added a provision where the amount received couldn't exceed the normal pay. That was one major sticking point yesterday. Maybe it didn't make it in the final version?
    They might have put that provision in there. The devil is obviously in the details.

    I've been tasked to research this by my employer as we have hundreds of clients who are going to start calling....they already have actually.
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    Originally Posted by Jtbny View Post
    Coupled with the increase in time/money of unemployment I'd think its just fine for now?

    From what I've read the means testing would have cost more than just sending the checks. Either way, don't need it then donate to a local charity/hospital. Easy peasy.
    Depends on the circumstances really. Illinois unemployment servers are crashing, how long is it going to take to get checks to people? There are people who just opened restaurants or other small businesses that may Not qualify for this handout, but are now way over their heads in operating expenses such as rent, large quantities of product that will not be sold (food tossed due to age etc).

    Im working from home today (much needed break) and I was thinking as the mail carrier dropped off my mail how they have touched every mailbox on the route, then touching your mail. It’s almost like shaking hands with everyone on the mail route since they have all touched their mailbox..... Government checks infect millions with CV-19
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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    Depends on the circumstances really. Illinois unemployment servers are crashing, how long is it going to take to get checks to people? There are people who just opened restaurants or other small businesses that may Not qualify for this handout, but are now way over their heads in operating expenses such as rent, large quantities of product that will not be sold (food tossed due to age etc).

    Im working from home today (much needed break) and I was thinking as the mail carrier dropped off my mail how they have touched every mailbox on the route, then touching your mail. It’s almost like sharing hand with everyone on the mail route since they have all touched their mailbox..... Government checks infect millions with CV-19
    I spray the mail with Lysol

    Ya the unemployment site in NY has been crashing. My sister has been furloughed and my bet is my wife has 2-3 more weeks. Fortunately once the Fed dropped rates I called our mortgage company and refinanced. Took 8 total days to complete and we were able to push our first new payment out until May 15. Shaved 5 years off our term and payment went up $50 a month.

    If the Fed wasn't totally manipulating the market I'd be making more a week than my wife does a month. Instead, I'm chasing my tail.
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    The individual payments could be handled at the same time in concert with the unemployment claim. Bring in or email your 2018 or 2019 tax return when making your claim. Unemployment claim gets approved, boom, the state prints or direct deposits your $1,200 check. As far as logistics is concerned, temporarily hire the unemployed to assist with the claims.
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    Originally Posted by Jtbny View Post
    I thought they added a provision where the amount received couldn't exceed the normal pay. That was one major sticking point yesterday. Maybe it didn't make it in the final version?
    That would certainly seem logical, but none of the articles I read had any such language....
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    Originally Posted by Jtbny View Post
    I spray the mail with Lysol

    Ya the unemployment site in NY has been crashing. My sister has been furloughed and my bet is my wife has 2-3 more weeks. Fortunately once the Fed dropped rates I called our mortgage company and refinanced. Took 8 total days to complete and we were able to push our first new payment out until May 15. Shaved 5 years off our term and payment went up $50 a month.

    If the Fed wasn't totally manipulating the market I'd be making more a week than my wife does a month. Instead, I'm chasing my tail.
    Do you ensure that the mail is wet with product and allow for the appropriate amount of contact time (wet time) to ensure disinfection? If not you have been compromised lol.

    I’d love to see all the money go to people in need, unfortunately the way that the country and politicians (on both sides) work, a lot of this package will be misappropriated. Hopefully most of it ends up actually helping those in need.
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    Flip side is, people who dont need it, will probably spend it, which is good for the economy also.

    Not sure what other way would be better (to assess need) across mass population than income level. The management of trying to assess needs individually would take a whole additional division of govt...and be slow and probably miss just as many people.


    In times like crisis, broad-brush may be the best way. Dont really know...but just saying.

    That’s what I’m thinking as well. If you don’t need any help then all of that money will be disposable income and probably get pumped right back into small or large businesses. If you need all of it to get by then it will help tremendously. If it falls anywhere in between then it almost seems to have a self-balancing aspect to it, as you can splurge with what you want and keep the rest. Of course, some people will make bad decisions with it...but I don’t think any bill can really save people from themselves.


    I think from far away the bill looks pretty solid, or about as good as you could hope for given the circumstances. Obviously as time goes on we’ll start to see issues emerge, but again overall it seems alright. It’s even about right on par with the GDP. Two trillion is about 1/10 of America’s GDP, and we’ll probably lose about 1/10 of our GDP because of the virus this year...or at least I’d say that’s a decent estimate. Obviously people will complain about the price, but I’d say the cost of not doing it would be much, much greater.
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    Originally Posted by jtaylor2010 View Post
    That’s what I’m thinking as well. If you don’t need any help then all of that money will be disposable income and probably get pumped right back into small or large businesses. If you need all of it to get by then it will help tremendously. If it falls anywhere in between then it almost seems to have a self-balancing aspect to it, as you can splurge with what you want and keep the rest. Of course, some people will make bad decisions with it...but I don’t think any bill can really save people from themselves.


    I think from far away the bill looks pretty solid, or about as good as you could hope for given the circumstances. Obviously as time goes on we’ll start to see issues emerge, but again overall it seems alright. It’s even about right on par with the GDP. Two trillion is about 1/10 of America’s GDP, and we’ll probably lose about 1/10 of our GDP because of the virus this year...or at least I’d say that’s a decent estimate. Obviously people will complain about the price, but I’d say the cost of not doing it would be much, much greater.
    mine is going to a small and medium sized business. I ordered an ARE truck bed cap for my new Tacoma at the beginning of the month. Getting money to people....
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    It doesn't make sense to exclude people who make over a certain threshold in income. All it does is over complicate the process over simply issuing a check to every American. They're wasting money to make this "more fair" when it's not unfair to issue one to everyone in the first place because those who pay the most in taxes are still getting by far the least benefit from the check while those who pay the least in taxes are by far getting the greatest benefit.

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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    It doesn't make sense to exclude people who make over a certain threshold in income. All it does is over complicate the process over simply issuing a check to every American. They're wasting money to make this "more fair" when it's not unfair to issue one to everyone in the first place because those who pay the most in taxes are still getting by far the least benefit from the check while those who pay the least in taxes are by far getting the greatest benefit.

    https://theweek.com/articles/903644/...mpaign=twitter

    I only skimmed the article, but do you know how much more that would cost to give checks to everyone? Seems like that would be ridiculously expensive.

    I'm also not opposed to making these payments federally taxable income; not subject to MED or FICA.
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    Y'all are fuking retards. It's not about if you NEED the money it's about you spending it to feed businesses. They don't give a fuk about people.
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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    mine is going to a small and medium sized business. I ordered an ARE truck bed cap for my new Tacoma at the beginning of the month. Getting money to people....
    A lot of ours will be going to replacing our back deck. We’ve been doing home repairs with plans to move this year but that may get delayed a year now depending on what the market looks like in the next few months. A small business in our neighborhood will probably do the work(depending on the quote) so it’ll be good to keep it in our neighborhood. If not it’ll still be a small local business. We’ve been blessed to be doing better than ever during these times so I’m more than happy to help others.
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    Originally Posted by bustasinclair View Post
    I only skimmed the article, but do you know how much more that would cost to give checks to everyone? Seems like that would be ridiculously expensive.

    I'm also not opposed to making these payments federally taxable income; not subject to MED or FICA.

    Instead of providing hundreds of billions in corporate welfare we could take $2 trillion and give every family of four $7,000 per month for three months. Let consumers not politicians decide which companies succeed.
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    Instead of providing hundreds of billions in corporate welfare we could take $2 trillion and give every family of four $7,000 per month for three months. Let consumers not politicians decide which companies succeed.
    I see. The only issue I see with that is that it doesn't resolve the impending bankruptcies of airlines, hotels, restaurants, and all other enterprises that we would still not be supporting with our $7,000/month.
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    Originally Posted by bustasinclair View Post
    I see. The only issue I see with that is that it doesn't resolve the impending bankruptcies of airlines, hotels, restaurants, and all other enterprises that we would still not be supporting with our $7,000/month.
    And all of the employees who would then be out of work. The economy is so complex it’s hard to determine how to get the most bang for the buck...
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    Originally Posted by bustasinclair View Post
    I see. The only issue I see with that is that it doesn't resolve the impending bankruptcies of airlines, hotels, restaurants, and all other enterprises that we would still not be supporting with our $7,000/month.
    Or do anything for the actual medical crisis that's actually causing all of this.
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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    And all of the employees who would then be out of work. The economy is so complex it’s hard to determine how to get the most bang for the buck...
    I don’t disagree but instead of creating a bunch of complex programs or targeted appropriations, if Congress is looking to spend more money, make it as simple as possible and just give it to the people.
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    Originally Posted by bustasinclair View Post
    Full text here for those of us who need help falling asleep.

    "1) Give one-time direct payments of up to $1,200 for individuals and $2,400 for couples, with $500 added for every child, based on 2019 tax returns for those who filed them and 2018 information if they have not."


    Bullet points here:
    I have a 19 year old, so filing taxes on time was a $500 mistake. I'm not concerned since there's no such thing as free money and we'll be paying this back eventually.
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    Originally Posted by Bando View Post
    I have a 19 year old, so filing taxes on time was a $500 mistake. I'm not concerned since there's no such thing as free money and we'll be paying this back eventually.
    I didn't see if they defined "child", maybe still being a dependent will be enough.

    Edit: Nevermind, I see that it's 16 and under.
    Last edited by bustasinclair; 03-26-2020 at 03:46 PM.
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    Originally Posted by bustasinclair View Post
    I didn't see if they defined "child", maybe still being a dependent will be enough.

    Edit: Nevermind, I see that it's 16 and under.
    According to the latest text of the bill I’ve read the $1,200 credit is not available if you’re claimed as a dependent, and the $500 is not available if you’re 17 or older. It seems that many students will be getting screwed on this.
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