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  1. #61
    Я русский TheFugitive's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    I have them in the cabinet so why not use them.
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  2. #62
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    Originally Posted by ILPump View Post
    I thought you guys were big on studies, did your stance change on vitamin C?
    This is a red herring.

    There is one doc from China with a handful of IV vit C cases (over a period of 8-10 hours) he believes could show promise for COVID19, there is another with a handful of cases suggesting Vit C megadosing can cause cytokine storm in the presence of COVID19.

    There is simply too little info on a virus we don't know enough about. Ergo, I would not heavily dose Vit C in this instance.

    Normal dosing from vitamins and varied fruits and veggies, especially, should be adequate.
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    I'm pretty sure your wrong, but care to elaborate...

    Disclaimer: The above post is my personal opinion and does not represent the official position of any company or entity. It does not constitute medical advice.
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  3. #63
    Я русский TheFugitive's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by powercage View Post
    This is a red herring.

    There is one doc from China with a handful of IV vit C cases (over a period of 8-10 hours) he believes could show promise for COVID19, there is another with a handful of cases suggesting Vit C megadosing can cause cytokine storm in the presence of COVID19.

    There is simply too little info on a virus we don't know enough about. Ergo, I would not heavily dose Vit C in this instance.

    Normal dosing from vitamins and varied fruits and veggies, especially, should be adequate.
    I agree, more testing needs to be done before we can confirm what combats this virus. I was traveling back and forth to FL in late Nov and early Dec and ended up with a very strange cough, and a possible upper respiratory infection, I'm not saying it was Covid19 as I was never tested and it wasn't much of a concern at that time. My Doc prescribed me a Z PAK saying it wouldn't help but said to give it a shot. The Z PAK knocked out whatever I had within 3 to 5 days

    As for now I'm taking in 1000mg of Vitamin C, 5000iu of Vitiman D, and Zinc daily with increased amounts of protein and BCAAs hoping for the best
    Last edited by TheFugitive; 04-01-2020 at 11:30 AM.
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  4. #64
    Cybergenics...it's bomb! lucia316's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ILPump View Post
    Why should anyone listen to either of you? As far as I can tell more than enough credible information has been presented on BCAA’s
    Sock accounts in the heezy fo sheezy. It's weird how this account, outside of a few exceptions that are typically in response to BPI or, in the latest non-BCAA example, defending companies that use 3rd Party labs after a Chromadex attack. Prior to that nothing, for almost 4 months.....hmmm.

    Your spots are...errr...stripes are like someone escaped from prison...a fugitive from justice as it were.


    Originally Posted by ILPump View Post
    I thought you guys were big on studies, did your stance change on vitamin C?
    Since PC already addressed, it's not surprising to see the logical fallacy.


    Originally Posted by TheFugitive View Post
    The purpose of this thread was to bring awareness to members that compromise their immunity through strenuous training. I could honestly careless what brand of BCAAs you use, and what's presented is backed by plenty of credible sources
    Credible (whether that's a true statement or not) != relevant.

    Your 20 year old N=12 study on marathon athletes didn't actually control diet. It simply gave 6 of these runners a 3g dose in a 3:1:1 ratio, every morning for a month, the day of the race and for a week post race. ZERO diet control otherwise. Would supplemental protein have achieved the same results. Would meeting their macro have achieved the same results. Studies in the 20 years....20 years....since this study show this to be relevant and likely true.

    Also, the difference in "immune response" was determined by a survey of subjective questions. So if perhaps I felt hot today and claimed it was a fever, or I had hay fever (it was conducted in March and April on athletes not only from Brazil) and was coughing that could have been denoted as poor immune response. Subjectivity in studies is bad. Further, I struggle with the plasma glutamine levels because of poor dietary control. Were these athletes ingesting enough protein in general? If not, these results become more specious.

    Overall, 20 year old study that doesn't really show differences in immune response other than questions asked of people in how they felt, if they even remembered after a month how they felt 4 weeks ago.

    The other piece you referenced, simply discussed how the 3 amino acids are relevant in immune system and how the immune system utilizes leucine, isoleucine and valine. There is ZERO evidence that supplemental BCAAs does anything positive for the immune system or the cells that make it up. The tests and studies it did reference were a low protein diet in rats study and another rat study that limited BCAAs specifically.

    Your "awareness" is BS and as usual, you cherry picked information to make it seem relevant. Well played "Dr." Stoppani.

    And you could honestly care less than you already do...smh.

    /thread
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  5. #65
    Registered User Ghawk21's Avatar
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    Shills guna shill but can any thread attempting to shill on the current coronavirus pandemic just be locked? There's a lot of uninformed and desperate people out there who may stumble on threads like this and not make it past the first page or even paragraph.
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  6. #66
    Chromadex Verified faipdeooiad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ghawk21 View Post
    Shills guna shill but can any thread attempting to shill on the current coronavirus pandemic just be locked? There's a lot of uninformed and desperate people out there who may stumble on threads like this and not make it past the first page or even paragraph.
    Exactly what I was getting at on page one.
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  7. #67
    Я русский TheFugitive's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lucia316 View Post
    Sock accounts in the heezy fo sheezy. It's weird how this account, outside of a few exceptions that are typically in response to BPI or, in the latest non-BCAA example, defending companies that use 3rd Party labs after a Chromadex attack. Prior to that nothing, for almost 4 months.....hmmm.

    Your spots are...errr...stripes are like someone escaped from prison...a fugitive from justice as it were.




    Since PC already addressed, it's not surprising to see the logical fallacy.




    Credible (whether that's a true statement or not) != relevant.

    Your 20 year old N=12 study on marathon athletes didn't actually control diet. It simply gave 6 of these runners a 3g dose in a 3:1:1 ratio, every morning for a month, the day of the race and for a week post race. ZERO diet control otherwise. Would supplemental protein have achieved the same results. Would meeting their macro have achieved the same results. Studies in the 20 years....20 years....since this study show this to be relevant and likely true.

    Also, the difference in "immune response" was determined by a survey of subjective questions. So if perhaps I felt hot today and claimed it was a fever, or I had hay fever (it was conducted in March and April on athletes not only from Brazil) and was coughing that could have been denoted as poor immune response. Subjectivity in studies is bad. Further, I struggle with the plasma glutamine levels because of poor dietary control. Were these athletes ingesting enough protein in general? If not, these results become more specious.

    Overall, 20 year old study that doesn't really show differences in immune response other than questions asked of people in how they felt, if they even remembered after a month how they felt 4 weeks ago.

    The other piece you referenced, simply discussed how the 3 amino acids are relevant in immune system and how the immune system utilizes leucine, isoleucine and valine. There is ZERO evidence that supplemental BCAAs does anything positive for the immune system or the cells that make it up. The tests and studies it did reference were a low protein diet in rats study and another rat study that limited BCAAs specifically.

    Your "awareness" is BS and as usual, you cherry picked information to make it seem relevant. Well played "Dr." Stoppani.

    And you could honestly care less than you already do...smh.

    /thread
    Lucia,

    Your input is always appreciated, but c'mon man give us something positive, your Debbie Downer attitude isn't very lifting

    The reason for this thread was already addressed and it has zero to do with any brand. This is about this community and this community only

    Also, a study is a study regardless of the time, correct? The results show a positive response and that's all that matters
    Last edited by TheFugitive; 04-01-2020 at 02:49 PM.
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  8. #68
    Я русский TheFugitive's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by faipdeooiad View Post
    Exactly what I was getting at on page one.
    And you continue to post...
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  9. #69
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    Originally Posted by TheFugitive View Post
    And you continue to post...
    What do you want me to do at work? Actual work?
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  10. #70
    Я русский TheFugitive's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by faipdeooiad View Post
    What do you want me to do at work? Actual work?
    Are you guys at a full time work status? The US is pretty much shut down

    Seriously this thread wasn't intended to pimp a brand, its about us, the daily drivers of this forum section, and admit it, you love a juicy BCAA thread just like the rest of us
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  11. #71
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    Lets not forget that some of us only care about n=1(me) so while studies are nice for the masses and sales, at this point with Covid-19 i don't care about anyone else. These are unusual times and if i already have it in the cabinet, why not use it. Besides, the gym is closed until god knows when, so what the hell else am i gonna do with it?
    I already take a handful of vitamins and wipe everything down with Clorox wipes,and if this helps by __%, then i am better off. If it doesn't, then my water tastes better.
    sums it up a thread will start off promising and then turn into name calling..
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  12. #72
    Chromadex Verified faipdeooiad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TheFugitive View Post
    Are you guys at a full time work status? The US is pretty much shut down

    Seriously this thread wasn't intended to pimp a brand, its about us, the daily drivers of this forum section, and admit it, you love a juicy BCAA thread just like the rest of us
    Shut down except for ‘key workers’ which includes banks. To call my role ‘essential’ to anything other than the bank’s bottom line is laughable and I because their IT systems are so poor I can’t work from home so I’m in a small office with 85 others with no opening windows, no opening external doors and no ventilation. We’ve had 7 sent home since Monday with symptoms.
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  13. #73
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    Originally Posted by faipdeooiad View Post
    Shut down except for ‘key workers’ which includes banks. To call my role ‘essential’ to anything other than the bank’s bottom line is laughable and I because their IT systems are so poor I can’t work from home so I’m in a small office with 85 others with no opening windows, no opening external doors and no ventilation. We’ve had 7 sent home since Monday with symptoms.
    That sounds like a fuk'd up situation, keep everything clean and wear a mask if possible. Are your numbers staring to decline?
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  14. #74
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    Originally Posted by TheFugitive View Post
    That sounds like a fuk'd up situation, keep everything clean and wear a mask if possible. Are your numbers staring to decline?
    Nationally? No. We had a big jump in deaths in the last 24 hours at nearly 600 in 24 hours but we’re further on than the US and, quite frankly, I don’t want to think what your numbers will look like by Easter. We’re still seeing infection rates and deaths going up hand in hand. We’re not at Spanish or Italian levels yet but not far off.

    We had 250,000 people at Cheltenham racing festival 2 weeks ago and there’s been a number of infections reported from that so we’re expecting that (attendees plus those they’ve infected) to start hitting hospitals this week so that number will jump again. We’re also still allowing flights in from hotspots without any form of testing, so several flights in daily from New York and it’s just the usual checking of passports and enjoy your day. Straight into the transport system and potentially infecting more and more people.

    The government have told several companies that they don’t need their ventilators when they do, they’re blaming lack of chemicals for the lack of tests when the Chemical Industries Association have said they’ve got everything they need but the government haven’t asked for it. We’re being led by donkeys.

    We’re setting up NHS field hospitals at convention centres - our local one, the GMEX, has 4,000 beds.

    Our beloved PM’s quarantining with it but word around Westminster is that he’s absolutely riddled with it. Mid-50’s, carrying some weight and any potential underlying issues and I don’t fancy his chances. I’ll not shed a tear if he doesn’t see this through.

    Oh and we’re not allowed masks in the office for both a security point of view (security cameras) and because they might make people feel more uneasy
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    Originally Posted by faipdeooiad View Post
    Nationally? No. We had a big jump in deaths in the last 24 hours at nearly 600 in 24 hours but we’re further on than the US and, quite frankly, I don’t want to think what your numbers will look like by Easter. We’re still seeing infection rates and deaths going up hand in hand. We’re not at Spanish or Italian levels yet but not far off.

    We had 250,000 people at Cheltenham racing festival 2 weeks ago and there’s been a number of infections reported from that so we’re expecting that (attendees plus those they’ve infected) to start hitting hospitals this week so that number will jump again. We’re also still allowing flights in from hotspots without any form of testing, so several flights in daily from New York and it’s just the usual checking of passports and enjoy your day. Straight into the transport system and potentially infecting more and more people.

    The government have told several companies that they don’t need their ventilators when they do, they’re blaming lack of chemicals for the lack of tests when the Chemical Industries Association have said they’ve got everything they need but the government haven’t asked for it. We’re being led by donkeys.

    We’re setting up NHS field hospitals at convention centres - our local one, the GMEX, has 4,000 beds.

    Our beloved PM’s quarantining with it but word around Westminster is that he’s absolutely riddled with it. Mid-50’s, carrying some weight and any potential underlying issues and I don’t fancy his chances. I’ll not shed a tear if he doesn’t see this through.

    Oh and we’re not allowed masks in the office for both a security point of view (security cameras) and because they might make people feel more uneasy
    We were told the same thing, no masks due to us being in uniform as it might send the wrong message to the public. Our hospitals are filling up in Chicago and the peak is still weeks away, supplies are limited, hospital staff is limited. The jail is releasing low crime offenders just to prevent the virus from spreading. The MLB is thinking about canceling the entire 2020 season. And I was looking forward to Spring starting
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    Cybergenics...it's bomb! lucia316's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TheFugitive View Post
    Lucia,

    Your input is always appreciated, but c'mon man give us something positive, your Debbie Downer attitude isn't very lifting
    Your bull$hit isn't very "lifting" either. As has been mentioned, people come across your specious BS that is clearly out of context and start to think they may be on to something because they are ignorant as the people that post this crap in the first place.

    Originally Posted by TheFugitive View Post
    The reason for this thread was already addressed and it has zero to do with any brand. This is about this community and this community only

    Also, a study is a study regardless of the time, correct? The results show a positive response and that's all that matters
    I know you're not retarded, but I'm seriously starting to question it.

    You had zero response to how I demolished the study and how you used it. It's a piss poor study regardless of the time, so no, a study isn't a study if it's awful and has poor controls and methods. It doesn't show a positive response, and even if it were controlled we're not talking about anything that can't be achieved by just eating protein and meeting your macro regardless of the amount based on whether an individual is training or not.

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  17. #77
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    Branched-Chain Amino Acids and Immunity
    https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/136/1/288S/4664141
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  18. #78
    Common sense/moderation. gbullock32's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TheFugitive View Post
    Branched-Chain Amino Acids and Immunity
    https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/136/1/288S/4664141
    I was still in high school back in 2006.
    Short cuts to success are often paved with lies.
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    Registered User OT2000's Avatar
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    Post surgical patients receiving an IV of any amino acid will show positive results.
    Your nutrition and workout program determines your success.
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  20. #80
    Я русский TheFugitive's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gbullock32 View Post
    I was still in high school back in 2006.
    Originally Posted by OT2000 View Post
    Post surgical patients receiving an IV of any amino acid will show positive results.
    Thank you for your contributions
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    Originally Posted by lucia316 View Post
    Your bull$hit isn't very "lifting" either. As has been mentioned, people come across your specious BS that is clearly out of context and start to think they may be on to something because they are ignorant as the people that post this crap in the first place.



    I know you're not retarded, but I'm seriously starting to question it.

    You had zero response to how I demolished the study and how you used it. It's a piss poor study regardless of the time, so no, a study isn't a study if it's awful and has poor controls and methods. It doesn't show a positive response, and even if it were controlled we're not talking about anything that can't be achieved by just eating protein and meeting your macro regardless of the amount based on whether an individual is training or not.

    Waiting for the sock/Fug tag team responses.
    You can read into this however you like, the outcome is still favorable
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  22. #82
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    Originally Posted by TheFugitive View Post
    Branched-Chain Amino Acids and Immunity
    https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/136/1/288S/4664141
    More research is needed to understand the extent of the immune system's requirement for BCAA. It is likely that the essentiality of BCAA for the function of immune cells relates to protein synthesis.

    Didn't even need to get past the abstract.

    Which we know based on more current research requires all essential amino acids and won't happen in the presence of BCAAs alone.
    The human part of the study comparing post op immunocompromised patients over a 7 day period is hardly useful for drawing conclusions to relatively healthy people who would be consuming regular amounts of protein.
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    Originally Posted by Ghawk21 View Post
    More research is needed to understand the extent of the immune system's requirement for BCAA. It is likely that the essentiality of BCAA for the function of immune cells relates to protein synthesis.

    Didn't even need to get past the abstract.

    Which we know based on more current research requires all essential amino acids and won't happen in the presence of BCAAs alone.
    The human part of the study comparing post op immunocompromised patients over a 7 day period is hardly useful for drawing conclusions to relatively healthy people who would be consuming regular amounts of protein.

    2). In another study, free BCAAs were added to a rat diet containing 14% casein, and the impact on liver-associated lymphocytes in a model of liver cirrhosis was examined (33); control rats consumed a standard diet containing 24% casein. Addition of BCAA results in a greater number of liver-associated lymphocytes than in control rats, and in a greater number of cytotoxic T lymphocytes and natural killer cells. Liver natural killer- and lectin-dependent cytotoxic cell activities tend to be higher with BCAA addition, and the total liver capacity of target cell killing is higher (33). These studies indicate that the amount of BCAA in the diet of laboratory rodents can affect killer-cell activities; typically these are involved in the elimination of virally infected or tumor cells.


    This is an informational thread only, stop treating it like the news media. Whats presented favors BCAAs over opinion
    Last edited by TheFugitive; 04-03-2020 at 08:46 AM.
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    I provided information directly out of the link you provided. The difference is I commented on the actual human part of the study and you focused on the rats. Not sure where you're pulling opinion out of since everything I said is directly from what you provided or based on other studies which I know for a fact you have been shown in previous threads. The only one in any of these cyclical discussions who relies on opinions over facts is you.
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    Dumb and dumber still at it in 2020.
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    Originally Posted by AMeyer9 View Post
    Dumb and dumber still at it in 2020.
    Here to get noticed?
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    Originally Posted by TheFugitive View Post
    Here to get noticed?
    Still riding that made up "forum director" title eh. Good on BPI for the charity case. Still a garbage brand though.




    You've been doing this same exact thread for years now, you'd think you'd grasp at least something by now. You know what they say... can't fix stupid.
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    Originally Posted by AMeyer9 View Post
    Still riding that made up "forum director" title eh. Good on BPI for the charity case. Still a garbage brand though.




    You've been doing this same exact thread for years now, you'd think you'd grasp at least something by now. You know what they say... can't fix stupid.
    Human immune cells incorporate BCAA into proteins and are able to oxidize BCAA. The immune system exists to protect the host from pathogenic invaders and from other noxious insults. ... BCAAs are therefore absolutely essential for lymphocyte responsiveness and are necessary to support other immune cell functions.

    Lymphocyte counts below the normal range can also be temporary. They can occur after a cold or another infection, or be caused by intense physical exercise, severe stress, or malnutrition.

    This thread provides options only, nothing is set in stone and nothing presented is proven to cure anything

    See you again soon
    Last edited by TheFugitive; 04-04-2020 at 11:28 AM.
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    Originally Posted by TheFugitive View Post
    Human immune cells incorporate BCAA into proteins and are able to oxidize BCAA. The immune system exists to protect the host from pathogenic invaders and from other noxious insults. ... BCAAs are therefore absolutely essential for lymphocyte responsiveness and are necessary to support other immune cell functions.

    Lymphocyte counts below the normal range can also be temporary. They can occur after a cold or another infection, or be caused by intense physical exercise, severe stress, or malnutrition.

    This thread provides options only, nothing is set in stone and nothing presented is proven to cure anything

    See you again soon
    Been 5+ ****ing years and you still haven't figured out what people are trying to tell you. Not one single person here will say BCAA's aren't essential/useful in numerous bodily functions.

    What you still cannot grasp is that BCAAs... are in your food. This is beyond embarrassing at this point. How have you been here for 13 years and still just utterly clueless?

    If you do something for 13 years and still can't figure it out, might be time to find something new. Maybe you and your sock account ilpump can take up improv acting or knitting. Or really anything that doesn't involve science
    Last edited by AMeyer9; 04-04-2020 at 11:42 AM.
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