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  1. #241
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    Other people have also observed worse side effects in younger individuals. Glad you came out of it quickly.
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  2. #242
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    Interesting, why am I getting an "access denied" message?

    Even more interesting, I was able to post THIS. But couldn't post about getting my first shot on 10 February without symptoms. Let's see if this works...but I've never seen that error message before.
    Last edited by frankfrank3630; 02-17-2021 at 01:36 PM.
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  3. #243
    Han shot first! TolerantLactose's Avatar
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    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimam...-in-new-study/

    Through analysis of Johns Hopkins University virus mortality data and the World Health Organization’s (WHO) data on obesity, the World Obesity Federation—a non-profit associated with the WHO—calculated that 2.2 million of the pandemic’s 2.5 million global deaths were in countries with high levels of obesity.

    The report found death rates were 10x higher in countries where more than 50% of the population is overweight, pointing to the U.K. and the U.S. as examples.
    So that means everyone on this site is immune. Right?
    I can tell time. Time cannot tell me.

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  4. #244
    Registered User astrocoyote's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimam...-in-new-study/



    So that means everyone on this site is immune. Right?
    Pretty much xD

    Seriously though, isn't it ironic how obesity is a main comorbidity factor, yet the mainstream pandemic advice has been 'sit home and watch Netflix' while shutting down gyms?
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  5. #245
    Registered User Strawng's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by astrocoyote View Post
    Pretty much xD

    Seriously though, isn't it ironic how obesity is a main comorbidity factor, yet the mainstream pandemic advice has been 'sit home and watch Netflix' while shutting down gyms?
    Not only that, but THIS IS THE YEAR that Cosmo embraces "Health at Every Size" & people are pushing this message that obesity is healthy all over the MSM. It's absolutely appalling.
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  6. #246
    Registered User Paul Kreul's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by astrocoyote View Post
    Pretty much xD

    Seriously though, isn't it ironic how obesity is a main comorbidity factor, yet the mainstream pandemic advice has been 'sit home and watch Netflix' while shutting down gyms?
    94% of all Covid deaths have at minimum 2.6 comorbidities..

    https://www.jems.com/coronavirus/cdc...vid-19-deaths/

    That would bring “Covid only” deaths to 30,000...the flu kills 60-80k a year with no comorbidities..

    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden.../2017-2018.htm

    So Covid is less deadly than the flu..

    New study from the peer-reviewed Journal of American Heart Association finds over 63% of Covid hospitalizations were attributed to diabetes mellitus, heart failure, obesity and hypertension.

    These conditions are, in most cases, preventable.

    https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full...AHA.120.019259
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  7. #247
    Registered User astrocoyote's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Strawng View Post
    Not only that, but THIS IS THE YEAR that Cosmo embraces "Health at Every Size" & people are pushing this message that obesity is healthy all over the MSM. It's absolutely appalling.
    I saw that, yes, and really have no words... The public health management of this situation the past year has really been a disaster!
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  8. #248
    Registered User astrocoyote's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Paul Kreul View Post
    94% of all Covid deaths have at minimum 2.6 comorbidities..

    https://www.jems.com/coronavirus/cdc...vid-19-deaths/

    That would bring “Covid only” deaths to 30,000...the flu kills 60-80k a year with no comorbidities..

    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden.../2017-2018.htm

    So Covid is less deadly than the flu..

    New study from the peer-reviewed Journal of American Heart Association finds over 63% of Covid hospitalizations were attributed to diabetes mellitus, heart failure, obesity and hypertension.

    These conditions are, in most cases, preventable.

    https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full...AHA.120.019259
    Indeed! The evidence is all right there, but no one wants to listen to it.
    Add also to the above, that we don't apply the same criteria to classify a death by the flu as by COVID. Last time I checked, a person e.g. dying from a heart attack within 30 days from a positive COVID test is automatically classified as a 'COVID death', even though that is not necessarily the case. That might be convenient for logistical purposes, but leads to an inflation of this number.
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  9. #249
    Registered User Heisman2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Paul Kreul View Post
    94% of all Covid deaths have at minimum 2.6 comorbidities..

    https://www.jems.com/coronavirus/cdc...vid-19-deaths/

    That would bring “Covid only” deaths to 30,000...the flu kills 60-80k a year with no comorbidities..

    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden.../2017-2018.htm

    So Covid is less deadly than the flu..

    New study from the peer-reviewed Journal of American Heart Association finds over 63% of Covid hospitalizations were attributed to diabetes mellitus, heart failure, obesity and hypertension.

    These conditions are, in most cases, preventable.

    https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full...AHA.120.019259
    Where in your link does it say that flu killed that many without comorbidities?

    Originally Posted by astrocoyote View Post
    Indeed! The evidence is all right there, but no one wants to listen to it.
    Add also to the above, that we don't apply the same criteria to classify a death by the flu as by COVID. Last time I checked, a person e.g. dying from a heart attack within 30 days from a positive COVID test is automatically classified as a 'COVID death', even though that is not necessarily the case. That might be convenient for logistical purposes, but leads to an inflation of this number.
    That is tricky to determine if COVID-19 played a role but I don't think they are automatically counted as a COVID-19 death. I think it depends on what the medical team or coroner determines to be the cause of death. I know not all doctors are attributing all deaths to COVID-19.


    If you want to make the case that lockdowns and whatnot were more harmful than helpful I think you can make a legitimate well-reasoned argument in some regards but to imply that COVID-19 is less deadly than the flu is just demonstrably wrong. Also keep in mind well over half of the adults in the US have comorbidities and chronic disease; over 1/3 adults alone have obesity. Simply chalking everything up to comorbidities can certainly make some sense from a personal risk standpoint but it's not like only 5% of the country ishigher risk, sadly over half the country is.

    If your point is that those of us who take care of ourselves and are healthy should not have to suffer the shut down of society because most people don't take care of themselves and are unhealthy I understand that frustration but then also keep in mind the elderly are higher risk and that's nobody's fault.
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  10. #250
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    Where in your link does it say that flu killed that many without comorbidities?



    That is tricky to determine if COVID-19 played a role but I don't think they are automatically counted as a COVID-19 death. I think it depends on what the medical team or coroner determines to be the cause of death. I know not all doctors are attributing all deaths to COVID-19.


    If you want to make the case that lockdowns and whatnot were more harmful than helpful I think you can make a legitimate well-reasoned argument in some regards but to imply that COVID-19 is less deadly than the flu is just demonstrably wrong. Also keep in mind well over half of the adults in the US have comorbidities and chronic disease; over 1/3 adults alone have obesity. Simply chalking everything up to comorbidities can certainly make some sense from a personal risk standpoint but it's not like only 5% of the country ishigher risk, sadly over half the country is.

    If your point is that those of us who take care of ourselves and are healthy should not have to suffer the shut down of society because most people don't take care of themselves and are unhealthy I understand that frustration but then also keep in mind the elderly are higher risk and that's nobody's fault.
    Not to mention the long term impacts on the heart, lungs, and sensory perceptions.

    We still don’t understand what the impact to health will be years down the line.
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  11. #251
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    Originally Posted by Paul Kreul View Post
    94% of all Covid deaths have at minimum 2.6 comorbidities..

    https://www.jems.com/coronavirus/cdc...vid-19-deaths/

    That would bring “Covid only” deaths to 30,000...the flu kills 60-80k a year with no comorbidities..

    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden.../2017-2018.htm

    So Covid is less deadly than the flu..

    New study from the peer-reviewed Journal of American Heart Association finds over 63% of Covid hospitalizations were attributed to diabetes mellitus, heart failure, obesity and hypertension.

    These conditions are, in most cases, preventable.

    https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full...AHA.120.019259
    Yeah but then how would our elected officials REEEEEEEE and keep on enjoying being dictators if not by hyping this thing up? They’re beating a dead horse at this point, only the most dedicated Karens can’t see through it at this point.
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  12. #252
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Not to mention the long term impacts on the heart, lungs, and sensory perceptions.

    We still don’t understand what the impact to health will be years down the line.
    I know a healthy guy (32 y/o former Spec Ops soldier) who still has brain fog, extreme fatigue, and muscle soreness from getting covid 8 months ago.

    Hell, if NOTHING else, I think one of the things that would suck the most about even "mild" covid is losing smell & taste. Ik healthy people who lost their ability to taste food or smell for long periods but had no other symptoms. I LOVE being able to taste my food and from what they said, it's not just like you have a more mild sense of taste like when you have a sinus infection or cold, but you literally taste nothing at all.
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  13. #253
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Strawng View Post
    I know a healthy guy (32 y/o former Spec Ops soldier) who still has brain fog, extreme fatigue, and muscle soreness from getting covid 8 months ago.

    Hell, if NOTHING else, I think one of the things that would suck the most about even "mild" covid is losing smell & taste. Ik healthy people who lost their ability to taste food or smell for long periods but had no other symptoms. I LOVE being able to taste my food and from what they said, it's not just like you have a more mild sense of taste like when you have a sinus infection or cold, but you literally taste nothing at all.
    Matt (ugasar) from the ice cream thread got Covid not long ago and still cannot taste/smell. He stopped doing ice cream reviews now because he can’t taste anything :-(
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  14. #254
    Registered User Strawng's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Matt (ugasar) from the ice cream thread got Covid not long ago and still cannot taste/smell. He stopped doing ice cream reviews now because he can’t taste anything :-(
    Holy chit! That fuking sucks so bad It sounds so terrible to not be able to taste any food

    On a related note, co-founder of Ben & Jerry's Ben Cohen had no sense of smell. His business partner Jerry was obviously the mastermind behind the flavors, while Ben helped develop their signature mix-ins and toppings. He was particularly keen on texture since he had little to no ability to taste the ice cream itself.
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  15. #255
    Registered User astrocoyote's Avatar
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    @Heisman2 (sorry for some reason quoting did not work)

    Oh yes, I did not mean to claim that 'COVID is just the flu' or that we should 'let it rip' through the population. It is a serious health crisis we find ourselves in, and it needs to be confronted. I just found this fact about how deaths are determined interesting (comparing excess annual deaths above the usual baseline is probably a better way to determine deaths, but still not perfect).

    My criticism is aimed, as you correctly guessed, towards our response to this crisis, which future textbooks will probably use as a quintessential example of 'how not to go about it'.
    Proper mitigation efforts should take into account a cost-benefit-analysis of the harms of a pandemic vs the harms of the measures used against it.
    The more I dig into it, the more I realize that this was all addressed in the literature, and standard pandemic response textbooks suggest taking measures to shield the vulnerable parts of the populations, rather than trying to shut down an interwoven social fabric for 12+ months (We saw how the latter went...). This was all tossed aside a year ago, due to a combination of panic, politics and bad science.

    Anyway, I'll end my mini rant here. Fortunately we are nearing the end of this crisis.
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  16. #256
    Gaintaining Mrpb's Avatar
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    Death rate for COVID 19 is about 3 times higher than for the flu.

    https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2021...-of-influenza#
    https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020...lu-data-shows#

    Articles include references to studies.
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    Death rate for COVID 19 is about 3 times higher than for the flu.

    https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2021...-of-influenza#
    https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020...lu-data-shows#

    Articles include references to studies.
    Those are with a minimum of 2.6 comorbidities.
    April 14th 2020 - The CDC directed all medical professionals to list ALL DEATH CASES as COVID. This was at the direction of an obscure group called CSTE (Counsel State and Territorial Epidemiologists). This gave the CDC plausible deniability.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/us-data/

    https://www.cste.org/news/500750/CST...e-NNC-List.htm
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  18. #258
    Registered User Paul Kreul's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    Where in your link does it say that flu killed that many without comorbidities?



    That is tricky to determine if COVID-19 played a role but I don't think they are automatically counted as a COVID-19 death. I think it depends on what the medical team or coroner determines to be the cause of death. I know not all doctors are attributing all deaths to COVID-19.


    If you want to make the case that lockdowns and whatnot were more harmful than helpful I think you can make a legitimate well-reasoned argument in some regards but to imply that COVID-19 is less deadly than the flu is just demonstrably wrong. Also keep in mind well over half of the adults in the US have comorbidities and chronic disease; over 1/3 adults alone have obesity. Simply chalking everything up to comorbidities can certainly make some sense from a personal risk standpoint but it's not like only 5% of the country ishigher risk, sadly over half the country is.

    If your point is that those of us who take care of ourselves and are healthy should not have to suffer the shut down of society because most people don't take care of themselves and are unhealthy I understand that frustration but then also keep in mind the elderly are higher risk and that's nobody's fault.
    If there were comorbidities, the CDC would list as required.
    Influenza kills 60-80k every year with no pre-exsisting conditions
    Covid..20k

    Influenza is far more deadly
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    Originally Posted by Paul Kreul View Post
    If there were comorbidities, the CDC would list as required.
    Influenza kills 60-80k every year with no pre-exsisting conditions
    Covid..20k

    Influenza is far more deadly
    Please read this: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2766121

    Also if you're trying to imply the 60-80k every year is without comorbidities, then how many people with comorbidities die from the flu every year? It's going to have to be a far higher number given the majority of adults in the US have comorbidities and they will make many people at a higher risk of death.
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    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    Please read this: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2766121

    Also if you're trying to imply the 60-80k every year is without comorbidities, then how many people with comorbidities die from the flu every year? It's going to have to be a far higher number given the majority of adults in the US have comorbidities and they will make many people at a higher risk of death.
    Please read this..

    https://www.jems.com/coronavirus/cdc...vid-19-deaths/

    Now read this..

    https://www.statnews.com/2018/09/26/...deaths-winter/

    The article also states that many influenza cases are never reported on the death certificate, due to it being so common, so in theory, deaths attributed to influenza are far, far worse.

    The 2020-2021 influenza season saw 2% of historical influenza cases recorded.

    https://www.medpagetoday.com/infecti...ritheflu/88676

    330k “COVID” American deaths in 2020 (minus the 94% that had comorbidity) is 20k American deaths due to COVID without co-morbidity. 20k deaths compared to even half the 2018 influenza deaths still makes influenza far deadlier.

    Meanwhile, each and every year over 600k Americans die of heart disease, 600k Americans die of cancer, 150k Americans die of stroke, 80k Americans die of diabetes and at least 50k Americans die of influenza. There is no disingenuous medical virtue signaling..I’m sure.
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    WOATbrah of peace :) sooby's Avatar
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    interesting article based on a meta-analysis done on obesity and covid 19

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2772071

    JAMA:You also found that individuals with obesity were more at risk just for being COVID-19 positive.

    Dr Popkin:Yes. That most likely relates to reduced immune response.


    This I found particularly interesting as well.

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    Originally Posted by sooby View Post
    inb4 we need to purge fat people for increasing the spread of the virus
    If it were up to most of the misc., this would be public policy. Not that they'd need covid for a reason...
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    Originally Posted by Paul Kreul View Post
    Please read this..

    https://www.jems.com/coronavirus/cdc...vid-19-deaths/

    Now read this..

    https://www.statnews.com/2018/09/26/...deaths-winter/

    The article also states that many influenza cases are never reported on the death certificate, due to it being so common, so in theory, deaths attributed to influenza are far, far worse.

    The 2020-2021 influenza season saw 2% of historical influenza cases recorded.

    https://www.medpagetoday.com/infecti...ritheflu/88676

    330k “COVID” American deaths in 2020 (minus the 94% that had comorbidity) is 20k American deaths due to COVID without co-morbidity. 20k deaths compared to even half the 2018 influenza deaths still makes influenza far deadlier.

    Meanwhile, each and every year over 600k Americans die of heart disease, 600k Americans die of cancer, 150k Americans die of stroke, 80k Americans die of diabetes and at least 50k Americans die of influenza. There is no disingenuous medical virtue signaling..I’m sure.
    I think you are misunderstanding the data. You don't subtract 94% from the 330k COVID deaths. For example, if someone died with COVID-19 and respiratory failure on their death certificate that doesn't mean the death should be subtracted from COVID-19 as COVID-19 quite possibly triggered the respiratory failure. You also seem to think that all the listed flu deaths are solely from the flu, but they are not. Many people who die from the flu will also for example have respiratory failure on their death certificate.

    As astrocyte mentioned above another way to consider this is excess mortality. Per this recently tabulated data it appears the US is at about 12.9% excess mortality for 2020. https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/excess...tries-in-2020/ From this USAToday article it quotes ~400,000 excess deaths in 2020: https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/excess...tries-in-2020/

    Now that isn't perfect; for example if people delayed medical care due to the pandemic and then died as a result when they would not have otherwise that will also get lumped into excess deaths.

    Regarding your last point that so many more Americans die from all these other things, I agree with that point. I wish we hit all of that harder. I don't like the fact that our society is moving towards "fat acceptance". A recent NEJM analysis predicted that in 2030 a whopping 49% of adults in the USA will have obesity. This is going to dramatically increase the cost of all healthcare, lower life expectancy, lower quality of life, etc. I also don't agree with all the shutdown policies and this entire pandemic certainly could have been handled much better. I'm not trying to defend that. However, at the same time though I can acknowledge that COVID-19 is much worse than the flu.
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    Originally Posted by Paul Kreul View Post
    Those are with a minimum of 2.6 comorbidities.
    April 14th 2020 - The CDC directed all medical professionals to list ALL DEATH CASES as COVID. This was at the direction of an obscure group called CSTE (Counsel State and Territorial Epidemiologists). This gave the CDC plausible deniability.
    The first article is actually based on Canadian data. It found COVID to be 3.5 times more deadly than the flu. Data from over the world confirms COVID is more deadly.

    Here's a good paper on US data https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4677
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    Originally Posted by Strawng View Post
    co-founder of Ben & Jerry's Ben Cohen had no sense of smell. His business partner Jerry was obviously the mastermind behind the flavors, while Ben helped develop their signature mix-ins and toppings. He was particularly keen on texture since he had little to no ability to taste the ice cream itself.
    That's very interesting! I would've never guessed. Which one of them came up with the brilliant wordplay for their names for the flavors? (I love wordplay and puns!)

    People "recovering" with permanent symptoms is the elephant in the room. People DON'T only die or fully recover from COVID, but there are also many people who are grievously marooned in Limbo between the two.

    This may not affect "that many" people in here because, after all, this is a site for bodybuilders and the percentage of seniors here is negligible, but if anybody is having trouble getting vaccinated in their home state and you live reasonably close to Indiana, I had no trouble getting an appointment there, more than a month than I could have in my state. (Here's looking at you, Illinois.) Getting an Indiana appointment was a phukkn breeze! I have friends here in Chicago who have been trying to book something since late January, unsuccessfully.
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    With regards to the loss of taste: even though I hope it never happens to me or anyone else, we can think about it this way..Cutting may become easier :P !
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    Originally Posted by astrocoyote View Post
    With regards to the loss of taste: even though I hope it never happens to me or anyone else, we can think about it this way..Cutting may become easier :P !
    Forget the ECA stack...

    I’m all about CTA stack:

    COVID +
    Tapeworm +
    AIDS
    The power of carbs compels me!
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Forget the ECA stack...

    I’m all about CTA stack:

    COVID +
    Tapeworm +
    AIDS
    Ahahaha now that's the real 6 pack shortcut
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    https://www.hackensackmeridianhealth...ojp2L-nhA2t1Oo

    This has probably already been posted but it’s interesting

    “Studies of large numbers of COVID-19 patients have generated dramatic findings regarding the influence of obesity on patient outcomes. People with COVID-19 and a body mass index (BMI) of 30 or more were found to have:

    more than double the risk of being hospitalized (a 113% increased risk)
    a 74% greater need for critical (intensive) care services, including ventilation
    a 48% higher risk of dying from the infection“
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    WOATbrah of peace :) sooby's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by snailsrus View Post
    https://www.hackensackmeridianhealth...ojp2L-nhA2t1Oo

    This has probably already been posted but it’s interesting

    “Studies of large numbers of COVID-19 patients have generated dramatic findings regarding the influence of obesity on patient outcomes. People with COVID-19 and a body mass index (BMI) of 30 or more were found to have:

    more than double the risk of being hospitalized (a 113% increased risk)
    a 74% greater need for critical (intensive) care services, including ventilation
    a 48% higher risk of dying from the infection“
    yeah, pretty much from the same study I've linked. Don't think it was really ever a secret that being an obese fat phuck increases your susceptibility to disease and viruses in general including COVID 19. They are also more prone to displaying symptoms and thus probably more likely to spread the virus (from what we know about symptomatic vs asymptomatic/presymptomatic spread as well as common sense lol).

    Seems like as well certain races are genetically more pre-disposed to it (IMO it is way easier to explain it in terms of obesity rates rather than racial discrimination or maybe even SES). Myself am an Indian person and diabetes/hypertension affects us more than most other racial groups. Part of it is probably due to poor diet (indian food is carb heavy as chit) and isn't really a culture that emphasizes any physical feats, sports or exercise. But some of that genetics as well. Apparently that same study as well shown it may affect certain groups of people more at lower BMI.
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