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  1. #6091
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    Try not starting the post with a link or a quote, start with text

    Originally Posted by TrinnieBuu View Post
    Not letting me quote Farley for some reason.

    That said... after this one really there should be no excuses the next time something like this comes around (because it will) for governments to have a better response plan.

    Outside of insistency from different agencies from Feb to mid March, and the CDC botching their tests (out of good intentions, they wanted to make the test better, just failed in practice), not sure anyone out there knew 1-2 years in advance that something could spread this quickly and kill this many even with an almost full lockdown.


    Many knew. This virus is fairly tame, actually. It's not killing that many people. We're looking at what maybe 3,000 a day at peak in a nation of 3 million. That's small potatoes. We're talking about a CFR of maybe 0.5-1%...maybe 5-10x deadlier than seasonal influenza. That's...small potatoes.

    It very easily could have been, or later could be, something that spreads even easier and is ten times more deadly. Very easily.

    We as a species have a very very nasty history of death and disease from contagions. I mean...plague has literally gone through continents killing 1/3 to 1/2 of the entire population. Multiple times. Measles, smallpox (holy **** smallpox basically killed a hemisphere), 1918 flu, yellow fever, cholera, HIV...this one is nothing

  2. #6092
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    It is becoming more and more apparent that being a fat fuk is big predictor for getting floored by this virus
    may god forgive me

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    STRONG(ER) JUGGERNAUT1333's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 5x10 View Post
    I’m in the “hard to blame the government” for a once in a century pandemic crowd
    I don’t think any government on earth is prepared for this other than SK. And I think of a ton of their success has to do with dealing with SARS and having compliant citizens
    Yeah I get your point. Personally, I was not blaming the government. I'm just pointing out the fact that the world is not not all prepared for this kind of thing and if something devastating like SARS gets loose, we are seriously fuked.

    Hopefully lessons will be learned from this if it were to happen again.
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  4. #6094
    We know lol Farley1324's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 5x10 View Post
    I’m in the “hard to blame the government” for a once in a century pandemic crowd
    I don’t think any government on earth is prepared for this other than SK. And I think of a ton of their success has to do with dealing with SARS and having compliant citizens
    Yeah. But here is the thing.

    The government's collective responses is partly to blame for why it became the pandemic that it did. China concealing the **** out of everything. The WHO being complicit with china due to their influence. Those were the biggest gov failures. But others too, our gov't telling people to ignore it basically should not have been happening when it was

    Yes, the asian nations doing better actually learned from SARS. We did not. The lessons were there, we chose not to take them to heart.

    SARS was averted because: It started in Hong Kong, not in China (HK was not controlled by the CCP, it had its own system) so reporting was open and honest immediately...symptoms showed before being contagious...there were tests available rapidly to do contact tracing and clamp down on spreaders/infected. And we got lucky.

    None of those things apply to this one. Contagious before symptoms, started in a sht country with a sht government that tried to hide and misdirect everything, lack of tests, didn't get lucky

  5. #6095
    Is a Czechnologist. R3L3NTL3SS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nestbrother View Post
    It is becoming more and more apparent that being a fat fuk is big predictor for getting floored by this virus
    I mean...common sense would tell you anyone who can't walk up a flight of sitars without breathing heavily is going to have a bad time by something that inhibits breathing. lol

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    Anyone who wants to point a finger need not point it anywhere but the **** hole of China. More specifically, Chinese communist government.

  7. #6097
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    Cuomo is up. We've apparently pegged a new death record by 100+ despite hospitalizations coming down, lagging indicator since deaths trail in a week or so behind the hospitalizations. This will continue to suck for a bit.
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    Is a Czechnologist. R3L3NTL3SS's Avatar
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    WTF is this 5G, tracking people through chip with a vaccine...bull**** that I'm hearing people go on about??

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    Originally Posted by R3L3NTL3SS View Post
    Anyone who wants to point a finger need not point it anywhere but the **** hole of China. More specifically, Chinese communist government.
    amen
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    Try not starting the post with a link or a quote, start with text





    Many knew. This virus is fairly tame, actually. It's not killing that many people. We're looking at what maybe 3,000 a day at peak in a nation of 3 million. That's small potatoes. We're talking about a CFR of maybe 0.5-1%...maybe 5-10x deadlier than seasonal influenza. That's...small potatoes.

    It very easily could have been, or later could be, something that spreads even easier and is ten times more deadly. Very easily.

    We as a species have a very very nasty history of death and disease from contagions. I mean...plague has literally gone through continents killing 1/3 to 1/2 of the entire population. Multiple times. Measles, smallpox (holy **** smallpox basically killed a hemisphere), 1918 flu, yellow fever, cholera, HIV...this one is nothing
    I tried that already and it still didn’t work until I deleted your quote. Someone should fix bb.com.


    Agree with you that there is plenty precedence. Every other outbreak had a slow start compared to this one though. Even with Spanish Flu, the first cases were in September to November 1917, was not until Feb to March 1918 that it starts circulating. Same with every other pandemics we had. Logically you WOULD anticipate a virus to spread very quickly now with globalization, but in the last century it hasn’t spread this quickly. I know now reports are saying it could have started in Nov. In terms of government response though the WHO was only notified Dec 31. CDC started health monitoring 3 major airports that have direct flights from Wuhan 2 weeks later (this event was my red flag for this being more than it seems). China at this point has not even admitted they know its human to human transmission.

    For the future hopefully there’s a plan for accumulating ventilation support (doesn’t have to be ventilators because those require calibration at a frequency or they’re useless, maybe this will encourage someone to come up with ventilation equipment that won’t require regular maintenance while NOT in use). And outlines for each state and federal response in terms of “lockdown” (similar to NY outlines for what happens to do with bodies if we have a catastrophic event with many fatalities).

    Outside of that.. idk how we will ever overcome the supply chain issue for “surge” demand. Especially medications and medical devices (ventilators). FDA is not an easy regulatory agency.
    They said she's gone too far this time

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    Originally Posted by R3L3NTL3SS View Post
    I mean...common sense would tell you anyone who can't walk up a flight of sitars without breathing heavily is going to have a bad time by something that inhibits breathing. lol
    Im in the UK and all over the news people are saying ''but Boris Johnson is fit he plays tennis and cycles all the time''

    he's obese.
    may god forgive me

  12. #6102
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    Originally Posted by R3L3NTL3SS View Post
    WTF is this 5G, tracking people through chip with a vaccine...bull**** that I'm hearing people go on about??
    The flat earth contingent is out if retard force

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    Just a general reply but as far as the government "being prepared" the issue to me is that even if you know a pandemic is likely, and will come at some point, there isn't a ton you can do about it. You can't stock something like ventilators, because you don't what form the disease will take or what it might require and trying to stock for anything and everything is impractical. Masks and PPE? Okay, sure. But no way to know what specific hardware, expertise, or systems may be necessary and you also have to find a way to pay for it, store it, or whatever.

    TBH, I think the government here has done a better job than I would have expected, overall. I'm actually surprised some of the stay at home orders happened as fast as they did, especially considering that when those decisions were made they had to weigh the health vs. economic impacts with imperfect information.

    I just think that it's easy to question in hindsight, but put yourselves in a decision-maker's shoes and stuff gets a lot less black and white. No matter what you do, people will disagree.
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    My bad Vox. This thread moves quick and maybe I missed the context. The post reminded me of other times posters would come in and chit all over people for no reason. My apologies, I came in half cocked and should have not assumed.
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    Originally Posted by VoxExMachina View Post

    I told people on here and real life back in Jan / Feb. that this would be different and make sure to be prepared. Also warned people to watch what governments DO, not what they say. Actions speak louder than words, and those in the know are always going to do a bread-and-circuses routine for the masses while they frantically try to get their sh!t together in the background.

    It's sadly funny to me that so many just sat around waiting for someone else to tell them what was going on or what to do about it.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Same. Exactly the same.

    Got called a little bitch overreacting, told it was nothing, it was diet flu, it was all media hype and there was nothing to it so STFU...it's a no-win situation when people choose to be ignorant and unprepared. Those same people then blame the .gov for not doing ___.

    Oh, the irony

    And yeah, there is a whole lot of sitting and waiting for somebody to tell them what to do. Nobody wants responsibility. Nobody wants accountability. Nobody wants the scariness of making their own decisions and being even partly responsible for their own outcomes.

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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    Try not starting the post with a link or a quote, start with text





    Many knew. This virus is fairly tame, actually. It's not killing that many people. We're looking at what maybe 3,000 a day at peak in a nation of 3 million. That's small potatoes. We're talking about a CFR of maybe 0.5-1%...maybe 5-10x deadlier than seasonal influenza. That's...small potatoes.

    It very easily could have been, or later could be, something that spreads even easier and is ten times more deadly. Very easily.

    We as a species have a very very nasty history of death and disease from contagions. I mean...plague has literally gone through continents killing 1/3 to 1/2 of the entire population. Multiple times. Measles, smallpox (holy **** smallpox basically killed a hemisphere), 1918 flu, yellow fever, cholera, HIV...this one is nothing
    Hopefully we as a nation will have learned like (most of) Asia learned from SARS. At the least, individuals should now be on notice that gov is not going to save the day and shouldn't be relied on, though the response now seems to have gotten this under control. Frankly I'm shocked Cali didn't chit the bed, holy moly we're sending ventilators to the feds right now. Regardless, this lights a fire under my ass to get out of this densely populated metro and get my finances in order.
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  17. #6107
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    Originally Posted by 5x10 View Post

    That's extremely important as far as business shutdowns and other government-mandated restrictions go.

    The projections of overburdening of health care was vastly overestimated. The overburdening of health care was the primary justification for business shutdowns and other lockdowns and gov restrictions. The need to 'flatten the curve' was in order to bring that peak of the curve down below the capacity of health care to deal with it.

    I myself openly supported the shutdowns in part due to my professional experience in health care and knowing the bad situation that would develop if health care had far more serious and critical patients than it could properly treat. It would lead to lack of proper treatment for not only COVID-19 patients but other patients as well.

    However, we weren't even close to the projections and have instead stayed way under the capacity of health care - we were not even remotely close to overburdening health care in almost all areas of the US. Even in hardest hit NYC which is likely at its peak now, Gov Cuomo in his daily press conference stated a few minutes ago(11:07 am) that "we have more than enough beds available" and we know that from the numbers also. Without that risk of overburdening it's just not justifiable to carry on with the lockdowns much longer past the end of April and even that is pushing it too far.

    Certainly this is a dangerous pandemic and especially for certain at-risk people. I've got two at-risk parents at home myself who will still need to hunker down and stay protected. However the negative costs to business, to employees, and to the economy in general cannot be overstated so it's time to start saying let's get back to normal business-wise sooner rather than later.
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    Originally Posted by VoxExMachina View Post
    Just a general reply but as far as the government "being prepared" the issue to me is that even if you know a pandemic is likely, and will come at some point, there isn't a ton you can do about it. You can't stock something like ventilators, because you don't what form the disease will take or what it might require and trying to stock for anything and everything is impractical. Masks and PPE? Okay, sure. But no way to know what specific hardware, expertise, or systems may be necessary and you also have to find a way to pay for it, store it, or whatever.

    TBH, I think the government here has done a better job than I would have expected, overall. I'm actually surprised some of the stay at home orders happened as fast as they did, especially considering that when those decisions were made they had to weigh the health vs. economic impacts with imperfect information.

    I just think that it's easy to question in hindsight, but put yourselves in a decision-maker's shoes and stuff gets a lot less black and white. No matter what you do, people will disagree.
    Well what we CAN do is accumulate life support medical devices (vents, ECMO, whatever else you need in those coding carts, I’m not a doctor 😂). And I think more importantly... come up with a method to develop test and mass deploy them. Anything that will spread this fast (regardless of symptoms) benefit greatly from initial containment and contact tracing. South Korea learned the hard way when MERS hit them in 2017. When COVID came for them they knew what to do in terms of testing and containment.

    The only problem is who’s gonna pay more taxes to stockpile on medical equipment we won’t need in the short term since they all cost a pretty penny.
    They said she's gone too far this time

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Originally Posted by VoxExMachina View Post
    Just a general reply but as far as the government "being prepared" the issue to me is that even if you know a pandemic is likely, and will come at some point, there isn't a ton you can do about it. You can't stock something like ventilators, because you don't what form the disease will take or what it might require and trying to stock for anything and everything is impractical. Masks and PPE? Okay, sure. But no way to know what specific hardware, expertise, or systems may be necessary and you also have to find a way to pay for it, store it, or whatever.

    TBH, I think the government here has done a better job than I would have expected, overall. I'm actually surprised some of the stay at home orders happened as fast as they did, especially considering that when those decisions were made they had to weigh the health vs. economic impacts with imperfect information.

    I just think that it's easy to question in hindsight, but put yourselves in a decision-maker's shoes and stuff gets a lot less black and white. No matter what you do, people will disagree.
    I agree. People are saying Trump fumbled in the beginning and at face value thats true, but it's not an easy decision to just shut off all international travel based on the off chance that a virus is deadly.

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    Originally Posted by LukeLissen View Post
    That's extremely important as far as business shutdowns and other government-mandated restrictions go.

    The projections of overburdening of health care was vastly overestimated. The overburdening of health care was the primary justification for business shutdowns and other lockdowns and gov restrictions. The need to 'flatten the curve' was in order to bring that peak of the curve down below the capacity of health care to deal with it.

    I myself openly supported the shutdowns in part due to my professional experience in health care and knowing the bad situation that would develop if health care had far more serious and critical patients than it could properly treat. It would lead to lack of proper treatment for not only COVID-19 patients but other patients as well.

    However, we weren't even close to the projections and have instead stayed way under the capacity of health care - we were not even remotely close to overburdening health care in almost all areas of the US. Even in hardest hit NYC which is likely at its peak now, Gov Cuomo in his daily press conference stated a few minutes ago(11:07 am) that "we have more than enough beds available" and we know that from the numbers also. Without that risk of overburdening it's just not justifiable to carry on with the lockdowns much longer past the end of April and even that is pushing it too far.

    Certainly this is a dangerous pandemic and especially for certain at-risk people. I've got two at-risk parents at home myself who will still need to hunker down and stay protected. However the negative costs to business, to employees, and to the economy in general cannot be overstated so it's time to start saying let's get back to normal business-wise sooner rather than later.
    One thing to keep in mind though is many hospitals literally stopped doing just about everything that wasn't COVID related to make space, free up nurses, etc. I wonder how different the picture would be if the rest of the hospital kept running as per usual day-to-day on top of this...which is what will have to happen eventually. Other surgeries and procedures, no matter how minor, can't be pushed down the road and overlooked forever.

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    Originally Posted by Johnez View Post
    Hopefully we as a nation will have learned like (most of) Asia learned from SARS. At the least, individuals should now be on notice that gov is not going to save the day and shouldn't be relied on, though the response now seems to have gotten this under control. Frankly I'm shocked Cali didn't chit the bed, holy moly we're sending ventilators to the feds right now. Regardless, this lights a fire under my ass to get out of this densely populated metro and get my finances in order.
    Katrina taught me that. Probably the Watts riots/'92 LA Riots would have too if I was older

    People don't ever seem to really learn.

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    Originally Posted by VoxExMachina View Post
    I love how a bunch of armchair potatoes are sitting around with 20/20 hindsight saying the government should have done this or that, while they in turn were woefully unprepared and had no spare food, masks, toilet paper, or essential supplies going into this. Not to mention no emergency fund to pay their rent and now want handouts.

    I'm no fan of any government in general, but please. You can't fully prepare for the plague, Yellowstone super volcano eruption, meteor strikes, war, an EMP, the poles reversing, alien invasion, or whatever. But be assured if any of those happened, someone would be wondering why we didn't have every single contingency figured out.
    And I love your willful conformity, The government botched this because there was plenty of time to prepare.

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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    Vox is not referring to that group of people so much as the majority/everybody else.

    He's also a fan of the group of people who already had those things before we started seeing signs of this in January.

    You're right that it's doomed to failure to trust the gubmint, big business, and MSM to accurately inform. That's how you get stupid **** like "it's going away" or "flu kills __ and corona only killed 30 think about that" or "masks don't help don't wear them". Unfortunately most people suck at the teet of the gubmint and MSM so...when sht gets real all they can do is look to that same gubmint and be like...bail me out daddy I'm helpless I'm 12 what's going on?



    You are embarrassing the human species with your feels. Please stop.
    You bitch and moan that people call you a shill but here you are acting like a sanctimonious prick,Stop acting like a pseudo-intellectual and that you are smarter than everyone else, you aren't.

  24. #6114
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    Originally Posted by VoxExMachina View Post
    Just a general reply but as far as the government "being prepared" the issue to me is that even if you know a pandemic is likely, and will come at some point, there isn't a ton you can do about it. You can't stock something like ventilators, because you don't what form the disease will take or what it might require and trying to stock for anything and everything is impractical. Masks and PPE? Okay, sure. But no way to know what specific hardware, expertise, or systems may be necessary and you also have to find a way to pay for it, store it, or whatever.

    TBH, I think the government here has done a better job than I would have expected, overall. I'm actually surprised some of the stay at home orders happened as fast as they did, especially considering that when those decisions were made they had to weigh the health vs. economic impacts with imperfect information.

    I just think that it's easy to question in hindsight, but put yourselves in a decision-maker's shoes and stuff gets a lot less black and white. No matter what you do, people will disagree.
    Going to be interesting which is worse in the coming months: the 9/11 truthers or the WuFlu truthers.

    Can't really fault the western world for not being too ready for this. SARS wasn't a big thing here so people didn't have first hand experience with how quickly it can turn bad. You can pretty much guarantee this will pop back up this winter. If the same kind of response happens then you can start blaming people for being dumb.

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    Originally Posted by badreligion View Post
    You bitch and moan that people call you a shill
    Literally has never once happened.

    Got back to the flat earth thread

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    Originally Posted by badreligion View Post
    Originally Posted by Bodhy View Post
    Yes, I think it was a natural mutation. FWIW I don't at all attribute all evolutionary novelty merely to random mutations and natural selection. Those are, of course, aspects of evolution but far from the complete story of evolutionary biology in the 21st century.

    I believe all the evidence is in favour of a natural virus and none at all in favour of it being engineered. Every time I say this I just get negged with accusations of being a shill or being paid by the CCP, and never hit with countervailing evidence.


    That convinces me I'm simply not dealing with rational or evidence-minded people, rather, people who are excited by the thought of being red-pilled or woke despite it just not being the case this time. Takeaway is this: Reverence for mother nature is in order, not for vague and ludicrous CT's that only perpetuate themselves with ad hoc rescues of endless farcical and unfalsifiable claims.
    I don't know who you think you're quoting, but it's not me.

    Go back to the flat earth thread and preach about how fire cannot melt steal

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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    I don't know who you think you're quoting, but it's not me.

    Go back to the flat earth thread and preach about how fire cannot melt steal
    Okay yes, I made a mistake but what I said still applies to you as well.

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    Originally Posted by Johnez View Post
    Hopefully we as a nation will have learned like (most of) Asia learned from SARS. At the least, individuals should now be on notice that gov is not going to save the day and shouldn't be relied on, though the response now seems to have gotten this under control. Frankly I'm shocked Cali didn't chit the bed, holy moly we're sending ventilators to the feds right now. Regardless, this lights a fire under my ass to get out of this densely populated metro and get my finances in order.

    I have a theory about Cali, but this isn't the Speculation thread, so I won't muddle the waters here.

    I guess I'm a little more pessimistic when it comes to gov involvement in anything, because I NEVER relied on them to "fix this". Furthermore, I'm also NOT ok with going the way of SK. They track all of their citizens movements.
    You don't have to be great to start, but you have to start to be great.

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    Originally Posted by litljay View Post
    I have a theory about Cali, but this isn't the Speculation thread, so I won't muddle the waters here.

    I guess I'm a little more pessimistic when it comes to gov involvement in anything, because I NEVER relied on them to "fix this". Furthermore, I'm also NOT ok with going the way of SK. They track all of their citizens movements.
    Yes, I'm pretty sure most people (despite it being posted in here regularly) are aware of what South Korea did that worked so well

    https://theconversation.com/coronavi...illance-134068

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    Research into SARS antibodies appears to have identified a weakness in the virus:

    https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...anchilles-heel
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