Guitar Megathread II: Unleash the picking fury!!!

[EoR]

I didn't realize! I really hope they swing by where I can see them. Both LTE albums s are just God tier progressive metal - even beating quite a few Dream Theater ones.

I am a guitarist mainly and I love Petrucci but Jordan has always been the most impressive person in that band to me.

[Dominik]

I didn't realize! I really hope they swing by where I can see them. Both LTE albums s are just God tier progressive metal - even beating quite a few Dream Theater ones.

I am a guitarist mainly and I love Petrucci but Jordan has always been the most impressive person in that band to me.

He's a wizard. Even looks like one.

[bignpisst]

Dude Bruce Bouillet was rad.

Paul gets all the attention but bruce was bad mutherfukker too

[bignpisst]

Brent Mason is awesome, the other guy is no slouch either

[rollerball]

Yo Swim, your boy has won me over. I'm really impressed with his light picking touch on the acoustic part and just his dynamics overall. Also I enjoy his demeanor and facial expression when he plays. Lmao you like chose his worst videos to post when you introduced him to this thread, he has a lot better vids and chit.




His cover of Tom Quayle's Spain is also impressive. He gets some of Quayle's awesome tone and phrasing pretty down.

[EoR]

[Dominik]

Posted about this video a few pages back. Not sure if you feel the same way about ripping licks verbatim.

And re: this kind of playing you could spend hours a day cruising instagram for these videos and never want to pick up the guitar again but the reality is they typically do a metric fkton of takes and you don't know how much they clean up in post so even though it looks like one take the audio from other takes could always be spliced in to make a performance sound even more seamless. He's an incredible player on a technical level but does he improvise different solos every time? Because that's what the guy who wrote the song did.

Compare it to the Shrapnel era of shred where Varney booked a few hours studio time and they either nailed it in a few takes or made way for someone else who could. What those guys did, especially the writing aspect of it, is still more impressive.

Spoiler!

Maybe it's a thing these days and I'm not aware but what's up with ripping off licks? There's a famous Steve Lukather Rosanna lick in there and not inspired either but note for note.

He does the same thing with a descending Martin Miller lick around 40s below. Incredible technique of course but the AH track sounds more like Gambale mixed with Guthrie Govan.

[Auburn RSX-S]

Paul gets all the attention but bruce was bad mutherfukker too

HE STILL IS!

I saw G3 about 7 years ago in ATL and it was Paul and Bruce with Petrucci and Satch. Bruce was the most impressive player of the evening. His phrasing was so refreshing and original. Gilbert felt like just listening to a guitar teacher play exercises really fast and cleanly.

Satriani was also extremely impressive. He's still just a monster of a player and it was a bit dissapointing hearing him go so hard live and not really doing anything nearly as rad on his records anymore. He played a lot from Crystal Planet which is my favorite album of his.

[EoR]

Posted about this video a few pages back. Not sure if you feel the same way about ripping licks verbatim.

And re: this kind of playing you could spend hours a day cruising instagram for these videos and never want to pick up the guitar again but the reality is they typically do a metric fkton of takes and you don't know how much they clean up in post so even though it looks like one take the audio from other takes could always be spliced in to make a performance sound even more seamless. He's an incredible player on a technical level but does he improvise different solos every time? Because that's what the guy who wrote the song did.

Compare it to the Shrapnel era of shred where Varney booked a few hours studio time and they either nailed it in a few takes or made way for someone else who could. What those guys did, especially the writing aspect of it, is still more impressive.

I muist have missed that. I think he can improv decently but wanted to do this note-by-note. I mean my last few posts I've kept mentioning talent/technique now is no issue it's about creation but it's just his finger picking hand that caught me. I've heard one of his originals and it's ok but it's like an improv session.

You have 2 categories now on youtube, those who can play anything and not create anything special and those who can do both. It's pretty hard to do both with the competition and easy of getting out music these days. Actually you can throw a third in, those who are mediocre at best but have the image+marketing down.

Come to think of it, Mattisa Eklundh or probably John Petrucci+Jeff Loomis first albums where the last time I heard anything exceptional. I mean I've heard some good stuff from artists like Nick Johnson, Kiki Lourerio, solid albums but nothing that instantly made me go: "Ok I have to learn that part" etc.

Matteo Mancuso has all the tools, talent and following now but hopefully he finds his niche and composes some memorable songs there. Then again maybe some people are sort of just happy playing that studio session type guitar. That finger picking hand is outrageously good though, it's nothing new but you don't see it on electric guitar often and not that fast+clean.

I myself always try work on original ideas and compositions. I probably have enough songs that I think are decent enough to make about a 30min album atm but I am not interested in recognition and never have been. I've shared them with only a few people--not recordings with multiples tracks just playing parts--and they've given good feedback - people's who's opinion I definitely respect. There's actually one song that one day I would like to get copyrighted and maybe share, a project way into the future though.

I'd probably fall into the "Yeah it's decent and there are some good songs" category who knows. I am really critical of myself and have abandoned so many compositions. It's ridiculous how some minds can create a tune like "Summer Song", truly has to be inborn.

HE STILL IS!

I saw G3 about 7 years ago in ATL and it was Paul and Bruce with Petrucci and Satch. Bruce was the most impressive player of the evening. His phrasing was so refreshing and original. Gilbert felt like just listening to a guitar teacher play exercises really fast and cleanly.

Satriani was also extremely impressive. He's still just a monster of a player and it was a bit dissapointing hearing him go so hard live and not really doing anything nearly as rad on his records anymore. He played a lot from Crystal Planet which is my favorite album of his.

PG has always done that but he's written so many songs that are awesome. Buckethead is the same, they go through their trademarks in a loop but it's their identity and many guitarists will never get an identity.

I wish I could have seen a G3 live, but I've watched pretty much all of them online.

Crystal Planet is one of the favorite instrumental albums, it's incredible. Pretty much lost interest bar a few songs of his albums after that. But, Time Machine, Crystal Planet, Flying In A Blue Dream, Th Extremist, I mean god he has such a list of top iconic albums.

[rollerball]

I myself always try work on original ideas and compositions. I probably have enough songs that I think are decent enough to make about a 30min album atm but I am not interested in recognition and never have been. I've shared them with only a few people--not recordings with multiples tracks just playing parts--and they've given good feedback - people's who's opinion I definitely respect. There's actually one song that one day I would like to get copyrighted and maybe share, a project way into the future though.
I'd probably fall into the "Yeah it's decent and there are some good songs" category who knows. I am really critical of myself and have abandoned so many compositions. It's ridiculous how some minds can create a tune like "Summer Song", truly has to be inborn.

I think there's a pressure that comes with releasing an album of songs that you've committed to the idea that "these songs are done, they represent me, and I either consider them perfect or they cannot be meaningfully improved at this current point in time due to the limitations of my musical abilities". I think releasing, to the public, an album of songs does not mean that you're necessarily looking for recognition, if that's something you're self-conscious of being perceived as looking for. I think there's a lot of value in simply putting it out there and seeing who discovers it and draws some personal meaning from it.

Now if it's more of a self-critical thing where the standard you've set for yourself is super high due to your experience with guitar and music in general then I hope you overcome that. It's one thing to wax endlessly about the subject in a sub-forum but it's far more meaningful to actually contribute to the overall musical lexicon with your own material, especially considering how much time and careful consideration has gone into developing it.

It's funny, when I think of all the great guitarists that I like I actually don't really like that many of any of their songs. Like for Yngwie I pretty much just like a few songs off of Rising Force. Vai a few songs off of Passion and Warfare. Guthrie Govan maybe Fives. Allan Holdsworth I just fast forward to the good parts like I do a porno.
Really for each awesome guitarist I like I could probably distill all the musical material they've released over their entire career into about 20 minutes each of guitar solos.

[Dominik]

Crystal Planet is one of the favorite instrumental albums, it's incredible. Pretty much lost interest bar a few songs of his albums after that. But, Time Machine, Crystal Planet, Flying In A Blue Dream, Th Extremist, I mean god he has such a list of top iconic albums.

Ditto for me however I got strong Crystal Planet vibes from this only this time he's got Marco Minnemann laying down a Baião beat Kiko would approve of. I know SwimToTheMoon would prefer Kirk Hammett but Joe's not bad here.

I think there's a pressure that comes with releasing an album of songs that you've committed to the idea that "these songs are done, they represent me, and I either consider them perfect or they cannot be meaningfully improved at this current point in time due to the limitations of my musical abilities". I think releasing, to the public, an album of songs does not mean that you're necessarily looking for recognition, if that's something you're self-conscious of being perceived as looking for. I think there's a lot of value in simply putting it out there and seeing who discovers it and draws some personal meaning from it.

Very good point and it can be paralyzing. I record ideas with my phone and the next day work on something else. A proper artist takes that idea and works on it until it's done and then move on to the next one, rinse repeat until they've got a finished album. EoR mentioned Satriani — he pumped out 5 great albums over a 10 year stretch. That takes commitment and discipline.

There's a video of Holdsworth before he died sitting in his home studio talking about digital vs. analog and it's easy to see why he never released another album. It's true he went through a divorce during his last album and had to sell a lot of gear but he still had more than enough to record his guitar parts. He released his best work over a 10-15 year stretch where he was forced to go into the studio and make an album. He'd do a lot of takes until he was happy and then delete the rest so no one would hear them. Of course most of the time never he never wanted to hear those recordings again but at least the fans got those performances.

These days it's too easy to keep working on something until it's perfect but by then you're probably sick of hearing it or the magic in the original demo is lost. Back in Black was written, recorded, and mixed in 6 weeks and 40 years later is still the gold standard for a rock album. Same band today could dick around for months on one song. Fans are happy AC/DC finally released another album which is great because 2020 has been a dumpster fire however it can't hold a candle to the sound of this album which they probably finished in a couple of months in their prime. Sound of the drums and guitar is still unmatched. So the message is when you're at your peak record that music and share it.

[rollerball]

Very good point and it can be paralyzing. I record ideas with my phone and the next day work on something else. A proper artist takes that idea and works on it until it's done and then move on to the next one, rinse repeat until they've got a finished album. EoR mentioned Satriani — he pumped out 5 great albums over a 10 year stretch. That takes commitment and discipline.

These days it's too easy to keep working on something until it's perfect but by then you're probably sick of hearing it or the magic in the original demo is lost. Back in Black was written, recorded, and mixed in 6 weeks and 40 years later is still the gold standard for a rock album. Same band today could dick around for months on one song. Fans are happy AC/DC finally released another album which is great because 2020 has been a dumpster fire however it can't hold a candle to the sound of this album which they probably finished in a couple of months in their prime. Sound of the drums and guitar is still unmatched. So the message is when you're at your peak record that music and share it.

I think that's one of the dangers with EoR's philosophy about recording and releasing his own music, I think you can sit too long on a song you're "working on" until you work all the original magic and spontaneity out of it.

That being said I don't record or write anything so I probably have the least valuable perspective on the subject.

[Dominik]

I think that's one of the dangers with EoR's philosophy about recording and releasing his own music, I think you can sit too long on a song you're "working on" until you work all the original magic and spontaneity out of it.

That being said I don't record or write anything so I probably have the least valuable perspective on the subject.

Exactly and let's face it if everyone sat on their creative masterpieces until they were perfect we'd have nothing to listen to.

My point about AC/DC is everyone has a creative prime and it can quickly pass by. AC/DC could have stopped making albums after 1981 and toured on those first 6 years of their catalog because that's pretty much all fans want to hear. Satriani had that 10 year stretch from Surfing with the Alien to Crystal Planet which he's never come close to duplicating in the 20+ years since. Vai had a 5 year stretch from Passion & Warfare to Alien Love Secrets. Has Eric Johnson come close to his first 3 albums in the 25 years since? The list goes on. Once that prime passes all you're doing is rehashing and most of the magic is gone.

Plus timing is everything. Some of those iconic albums would have been commercial flops if they were released even a couple of years later. By 1991 no one cared about guitar music. It was all about grunge. So you could be making music people want to hear right now and not years from now.

[rollerball]

Exactly and let's face it if everyone sat on their creative masterpieces until they were perfect we'd have nothing to listen to.

My point about AC/DC is everyone has a creative prime and it can quickly pass by. AC/DC could have stopped making albums after 1981 and toured on those first 6 years of their catalog because that's pretty much all fans want to hear. Satriani had that 10 year stretch from Surfing with the Alien to Crystal Planet which he's never come close to duplicating in the 20+ years since. Vai had a 5 year stretch from Passion & Warfare to Alien Love Secrets. Has Eric Johnson come close to his first 3 albums in the 25 years since? The list goes on. Once that prime passes all you're doing is rehashing and most of the magic is gone.

Plus timing is everything. Some of those iconic albums would have been commercial flops if they were released even a couple of years later. By 1991 no one cared about guitar music. It was all about grunge. So you could be making music people want to hear right now and not years from now.

I've long been curious about the idea of a "creative prime". Is this a result of age and the loss of ability due to time OR is it the lack of forward movement by the artist. Has the artist just sat on his laurels instead of constantly trying to evolve?
If we consider artists such as Picasso or Miles Davis, the breadth of their work in terms of relevance, stretches over decades. Picasso had different periods which reflected transformative changes over his artwork that was constantly at the forefront of artistic evolution.
Miles had groundbreaking albums from the 50s to the 70s (arguably the 80s).

Perhaps I'm using two outliers as examples but I can't help but to wonder if artistic creativity is limited by age or by lack of vision.

[Dominik]

I've long been curious about the idea of a "creative prime". Is this a result of age and the loss of ability due to time OR is it the lack of forward movement by the artist. Has the artist just sat on his laurels instead of constantly trying to evolve?
If we consider artists such as Picasso or Miles Davis, the breadth of their work in terms of relevance, stretches over decades. Picasso had different periods which reflected transformative changes over his artwork that was constantly at the forefront of artistic evolution.
Miles had groundbreaking albums from the 50s to the 70s (arguably the 80s).

Perhaps I'm using two outliers as examples but I can't help but to wonder if artistic creativity is limited by age or by lack of vision.

Good question. Maybe it's coinciding with trends or certain breakthroughs in technology that fuels that creativity which then passes. I've never really analyzed it but I can see a purple patch creatively with practically every artist I like and that period is often quite short.

I reckon Guthrie for example might regret doing only the one solo album 15 years ago or whenever it was — probably pre-Youtube. In the years since many shredders with chops on his level have set up shop on Instagram and Youtube copying it all so when he finally gets around to another album maybe it'll sound like a) he's rehashing the first one in a bid to recapture the magic or b) experiments too much and no one likes it.

Cliffs: just keep pumping it out like Satch did until the well is dry.

[Dominik]

Miles had groundbreaking albums from the 50s to the 70s (arguably the 80s).

If you were ranking Miles' 5 or 10 best albums how many would be from after 1970? I'm not suggesting artists can't continue to put out great music beyond those prime years but it's usually more hit and miss.

Metallica have been around for 40 years. How many albums released after 1991 do you care about? And then there's the issue of musicians still being creative but not having the technical ability or the voice or the overall energy to convincingly deliver that music like their prime.

[ctgblue]

Newest batch of guitars I built for sale. The light purple one gave me fits trying to get the color and grain right.

[rollerball]

If you were ranking Miles' 5 or 10 best albums how many would be from after 1970? I'm not suggesting artists can't continue to put out great music beyond those prime years but it's usually more hit and miss.

Metallica have been around for 40 years. How many albums released after 1991 do you care about? And then there's the issue of musicians still being creative but not having the technical ability or the voice or the overall energy to convincingly deliver that music like their prime.

I think Metallica made a conscious decision with Bob Rock to water down their material and make it more accessible to the larger public.
That being said I don't know how many more good albums they had left so you might be correct.

Perhaps there is an age limit to intense creativity but I think it's hard to determine that with artists who are simultaneously trying to chase album sales. I'm more inclined to believe there is an age-limit for certain types of authentic expression. Metallica can't be as angry when they have $100million in the bank each.. and music based on comfortable satisfaction and jaded luxury never seems as compelling.

[rollerball]

Newest batch of guitars I built for sale. The light purple one gave me fits trying to get the color and grain right.

Beautiful.. but what's the deal with the paw print. For me that would be a dealbreaker.

[terrorgunt]

Metallica have been around for 40 years. How many albums released after 1991 do you care about? And then there's the issue of musicians still being creative but not having the technical ability or the voice or the overall energy to convincingly deliver that music like their prime.

The Black album destroyed the band.

Justice and older for life.

I remember when the world premiere of Enter Sandman hit MTV. My friends and I all dropped our jaws at how pathetic it was. Imagine opening your previous album with Blackened.... and following it up with Enter Sandman.

[ctgblue]

Beautiful.. but what's the deal with the paw print. For me that would be a dealbreaker.

Clemson is right down the road from me, plenty of fans in the area.

[rollerball]

Clemson is right down the road from me, plenty of fans in the area.

Ohhh. right. I'll put on my dunce cap now. thanks ctg.

[Dominik]

Metallica can't be as angry when they have $100million in the bank each.. and music based on comfortable satisfaction and jaded luxury never seems as compelling.

Good point. I've heard Hetfield say there's always something to get pissed off about but it's obviously not the same as being broke.

The Black album destroyed the band.

Justice and older for life.

I remember when the world premiere of Enter Sandman hit MTV. My friends and I all dropped our jaws at how pathetic it was. Imagine opening your previous album with Blackened.... and following it up with Enter Sandman.

I liked a few songs off that album but agree it was the beginning of the end. They got a taste for commercial success after the One video and the Grammy's. Bob Rock took care of the rest. How would you rank their albums?

Master of Puppets
And Justice for All
Ride the Lightning
Kill 'em All
Black album

...don't care about the rest. It's a shame Lars canceled the bass on Justice because on some days I might actually put that first. That album was a big deal for me growing up.

[EoR]

I think there's a pressure that comes with releasing an album of songs that you've committed to the idea that "these songs are done, they represent me, and I either consider them perfect or they cannot be meaningfully improved at this current point in time due to the limitations of my musical abilities". I think releasing, to the public, an album of songs does not mean that you're necessarily looking for recognition, if that's something you're self-conscious of being perceived as looking for. I think there's a lot of value in simply putting it out there and seeing who discovers it and draws some personal meaning from it.

Now if it's more of a self-critical thing where the standard you've set for yourself is super high due to your experience with guitar and music in general then I hope you overcome that. It's one thing to wax endlessly about the subject in a sub-forum but it's far more meaningful to actually contribute to the overall musical lexicon with your own material, especially considering how much time and careful consideration has gone into developing it.

It's funny, when I think of all the great guitarists that I like I actually don't really like that many of any of their songs. Like for Yngwie I pretty much just like a few songs off of Rising Force. Vai a few songs off of Passion and Warfare. Guthrie Govan maybe Fives. Allan Holdsworth I just fast forward to the good parts like I do a porno.
Really for each awesome guitarist I like I could probably distill all the musical material they've released over their entire career into about 20 minutes each of guitar solos.

One day I'll put it all out there, probably when I am about to die lol. I didn't mean it as you only put out material for attention of course, I just am a very private sort of player. I know roughly from my interactions with people I respect where I stand and maybe I could have done something great but I don't care, honestly when I play I am lost in my world and that's all that matters. It makes you wonder what talent is out there that just doesn't bother or case about displaying it.

Yes you can condense everyone to just the bits you like I mean I have a huge song list called "Premium Choice". Only 8+/10 songs make, even songs I like but can only listen to now and then don't make the cut. They get shoved in my "Bulk" random category lol.

It's like a hot woman. You can fuk her for a while and it's amazing. Then you lose interest, take a break but then the thought of her creeps up and it seems fresh again. While other women you still want to fuk but after you're done you never go back.

I definitely don't have what it takes to write distinct, iconic albums, I know that for sure but I can put up solid songs. How I can tell is usually when I hear a new song that makes my ears prick up it ends up being a popular song. There's a couple of tunes I've sort of Frankensteined together over the years and I play them all the time because I enjoy them. I've forgotten or abandoned so many personal compositions even though they are "ok" because it has to be that melody that you--like a hot woman--want to go back to no matter what.



There's been a few songs and artists where I've taken a break from listening and haven't had the urge to listen to again.

[EoR]

Ditto for me however I got strong Crystal Planet vibes from this only this time he's got Marco Minnemann laying down a Baião beat Kiko would approve of. I know SwimToTheMoon would prefer Kirk Hammett but Joe's not bad here.

I couldn't edit my other post to include this one. I got "Access denied" again.

Yes, lots of Crystal Planet vibes but it still pales in comparison. A lot of his material feels more like improvising over a melody rather than a distinct melody. If that makes sense. The melodic hook was what grabbed me then the solo, now it feels like he is "Jamming" more. But once again, I don't think any artists can constantly over their whole life just keep pumping out top 1% hits using the same genre. Some get close though.

lol @ the Kirk comment. Speaking of Metallica--I love them--but this video is hilarious. That snare sound after Petrucci says: "Let's do it" cracks me up nearly every time.

[bignpisst]

And justice was a great album

I got Master at #1

RTL and AJFA fight it out for#2

AJFA was the last album before Kirk and Lars turned into slugs

I meant to quote someone, but forgot, so fukkit

[EoR]

So smooth.

[CherryPopinski]

So smooth.

He's an incredible guitarist his technique is unlike any other I've seen.

[rollerball]

He's an incredible guitarist his technique is unlike any other I've seen.

His technique makes string crossing a complete non-issue. Imagine being able to pick on the guitar and not worry at all about crossing string to string, string skipping, what direction you're moving to the next string, how many notes per string, complex string arpeggiation, etc.

I do hate that delay he has on though. Shawn Lane did that **** too all the time where he'd have this obtrusive delay on that, imo, just obscured the cleanliness of his playing. I wish awesome guitarists that use annoying effects did not use annoying effects.

[Dominik]

This moves me 1000x more than Instagram shred videos. Songs > daylight > chops