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Thread: Corona

  1. #781
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    Originally Posted by ChazWood View Post
    For what it's worth, your posts here are informative and on point with deftly inserted levity. Your contributions to this gnarly subject are much appreciated.
    Thanks Chaz, I edited my post before the quote but I hope everyone enjoys my dribble. Writing in here serves as a much needed outlet for me right now too. I have to write a lot of “stuff” about this for work, but I can’t really be honest. I can be honest in here, and that helps balance me out.
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  2. #782
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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    Thanks Chaz, I edited my post before the quote but I hope everyone enjoys my dribble. Writing in here serves as a much needed outlet for me right now too. I have to write a lot of “stuff” about this for work, but I can’t really be honest. I can be honest in here, and that helps balance me out.
    Recommend me a couple books please?

    I'll try search on my own but like high school AP or college intro level pathogenic microbiology?
    This is not the end, no it’s not even the beginning of the end. But it is perhaps, the end of the beginning.
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  3. #783
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    Recommend me a couple books please?

    I'll try search on my own but like high school AP or college intro level pathogenic microbiology?
    I’m much more into industrial hygiene, prevention of physical injuries and safety culture type stuff in the last 10 years or so for textbook type reads...Unfortunately, I usually read regulations and testing methods type stuff for work .

    Anything that is “introductory” would be a good textbook for basic broad-base knowledge. Some of my textbooks from 20 years ago include “Introduction to Epidemiology”, “Medical Microbiology”, “Control of Communicable Diseases Manual”, “Boyd’s Introduction to the study of disease”, etc (still have those and many other books I liked/kept from college).

    While the magnitude of this entire thing is unprecedented in current times, it’s happened over and over historically. It’s strange how relevant some of my course work then is now. I learned the when, why and how this is type of situation is supposed to be handled in at least two college courses, and many seminars, workshops, tabletop exercises etc since then....I’m caught flatfooted on a lot of this just like anybody else. I bought/read the textbooks in college, but the professors were where the knowledge came from. I had some good ones.

    For good (enjoyable) reads
    Richard Preston and Robin Cook have a lot of good books about diseases. Thrillers that are based on facts, but a little extra suspense added.
    Last edited by Plateauplower; 04-09-2020 at 03:46 AM. Reason: Fix author names
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  4. #784
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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    I’m much more into industrial hygiene, prevention of physical injuries and safety culture type stuff in the last 10 years or so for textbook type reads...But unfortunately I usually read regulations and testing methods type stuff for work .

    Anything that is “introductory” would be a good textbook for basic broad-base knowledge. Some of my textbooks from 20 years ago include “Introduction to Epidemiology”, “Medical Microbiology”, “Control of Communicable Diseases Manual”, “Boyd’s Introduction of the study of disease”, etc (still have those and many other books I liked/kept from college).

    While the magnitude of this entire thing is unprecedented in current times, it’s happened over and over historically. It’s strange how relevant some of my course work then is now. I learned the when, why and how this is type of situation is supposed to be handled in at least two college courses, and many seminars, workshops, tabletop exercises etc since then, but I’m caught flatfooted on a lot of this just like anybody else...Any introductory level text on the topic, or a “review” type book would be educational, albeit a dry read. I bought/read the textbooks in college, but the professors were where the knowledge came from. I had some good ones.
    I am all too aware of how often this happens historically. I read a lot and try to learn about things a lot. Even when I'm not looking for it, I find it, like ancient Greek history I'm into, and what was a big factor in ending the Greek civil war (commonly known to use as the Peloponnesian War)? A plague (we aren't certain what) in Athens when they were walled off from the countryside all that time. It's just everywhere in human history, ancient and modern and ongoing in a lot of less well off countries.

    I'm going always through books on something or other...

    Thanks


    Right now I'm almost done with this
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    https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/0393330516/

    The Stand and The Hot Zone are great books too...lol
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    Fight Coronavirus with your phone

    Hi all, I've previously mentioned a phone app that runs at night while your phone is on charge (it doesn't run unless phone is charged and on WiFi) that number crunches data for the benefit of cancer studies. The app is free and runs on Android and Apple and can be run on phones in any country any network. I've run it for a few years on a few phones, it doesn't read your address book or steal your data etc.

    The cancer projects are mostly UK, Australian and Italian research institutes but since they study results will be openly published I figure country is irrelevant and it helps us all. You can select which study you want to number crunch for.

    Previously it got a lukewarm (being optimistic) reaction in these forums, but they have a new project to research existing drugs effectiveness treating Coronavirus.

    If you want to support that while you are asleep and phone on charge the App is called DreamLab and is released by Vodafone Foundation (I don't use Vodafone as my cell phone company, that's not relevant).

    Anyway, if cancer treatments didn't catch people's attention last time, maybe fighting Coronavirus will be of more topical interest?

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  6. #786
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    I am all too aware of how often this happens historically. I read a lot and try to learn about things a lot. Even when I'm not looking for it, I find it, like ancient Greek history I'm into, and what was a big factor in ending the Greek civil war (commonly known to use as the Peloponnesian War)? A plague (we aren't certain what) in Athens when they were walled off from the countryside all that time. It's just everywhere in human history, ancient and modern and ongoing in a lot of less well off countries.

    I'm going always through books on something or other...

    Thanks


    Right now I'm almost done with this
    https://smile.amazon.com/Spillover-A...dp/B00856PC4K/

    Last was
    https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/0393330516/

    The Stand and The Hot Zone are great books too...lol
    That “Spillover” book looks interesting might have to read it when things slow down a bit for me. There’s a lot of interesting history books to read, especially the history of biological warfare, that goes way back to flinging dead infectious animal carcasses with catapults, poisoning water supplies etc. You might be interested in a documentary on Amazon video called “The Biology of Germs” which is a basic level scientific overview of pathogens, it's from 05 or something but the basics haven’t changed for that kind of info. Virus Nation is another that is more of a docu-drama about a bioterrorism SARS pandemic, and strangely relevant showing how the infection chain of communicable disease works.
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  7. #787
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    rotflmao!
    sums it up a thread will start off promising and then turn into name calling..
    The easiest way to tell when an argument has no merit is when the protagonist mixes in some personal insults.
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    So i found this interesting article on the origins of the virus.

    Coronavirus mostly spread to New York from Europe and was sweeping through the city by mid-February, study of genomes reveals

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-February.html
    sums it up a thread will start off promising and then turn into name calling..
    The easiest way to tell when an argument has no merit is when the protagonist mixes in some personal insults.
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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    I have to write a lot of “stuff” about this for work, but I can’t really be honest.
    That doesn't sound reassuring. Not blaming you of course, but a system that doesn't want to hear honest feedback almost invariably ends up fubar-ed.
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    Originally Posted by sy2502 View Post
    That doesn't sound reassuring. Not blaming you of course, but a system that doesn't want to hear honest feedback almost invariably ends up fubar-ed.
    I should clarify that a bit. I am doing some things that have little to no value or perhaps are even counterproductive, but I have to support the recommendation because that is the guidance from the public health authorities. Take wearing masks as an example of something I’m currently working on. Obviously we have to re-use our dwindling supply of respirators. At the same time, people who are not careful, or don’t understand things very well, could be increasing their personal risk of contracting the disease through indirect transmission. You see people wearing masks drooped around their chin when they are not “needed” which presents a horizontal surface for virus particles to land on, or worse yet donning / doffing or adjusting the mask with contaminated hands. You don’t want Virus particles on the inside of a mask you are going to stick over your nose/mouth.

    The masks recommended by the CDC for non-medical people are not PPE, but rather help protect others from the users respiratory secretions. The mask itself can become a disease vector when used improperly. Another concern I have is people will be slobbering all over these things, then setting them down in a break room or something when they eat, leaving a very high concentration of infectious material if they are currently infected. Will that person or the next disinfect that surface, allowing adequate contact time for the disinfectant to work as intended.
    Last edited by Plateauplower; 04-09-2020 at 09:22 AM.
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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    Thanks Chaz, I edited my post before the quote but I hope everyone enjoys my dribble. Writing in here serves as a much needed outlet for me right now too. I have to write a lot of “stuff” about this for work, but I can’t really be honest. I can be honest in here, and that helps balance me out.
    Glad we can help. I'll chime in and say I always appreciate your posts as well.
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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    At the same time, people who are not careful, or don’t understand things very well, could be increasing their personal risk of contracting the disease through indirect transmission.
    Did some very basic training around NBC protocols while in the Marines, my conclusion at the time was that if someone hit us with nerve gas or bioagents we were essentially toast. Proper donning/removal/use of equipment is pretty hard to do right even if you supposedly know what you're doing.
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    Originally Posted by blue9steel View Post
    Did some very basic training around NBC protocols while in the Marines, my conclusion at the time was that if someone hit us with nerve gas or bioagents we were essentially toast. Proper donning/removal/use of equipment is pretty hard to do right even if you supposedly know what you're doing.
    Exactly. I was never in the military but am HAZMAT certified. Now we are essentially ignoring decon. I saw a lady yesterday wearing tyvec suit, swimming goggles, and a bunch of other stuff for a trip to the grocery store. Then she just got in her car without a second thought about the possibility that if she was contaminated she brought that into her “warm zone”. I’m not saying that all that stuff is necessary, but if you are going to try to use those types of “protections” at least understand their benefits / limitations. Back in the day (before the WMD Bush era invasion), Iraq had enough botulinum toxin to kill everyone in the world several times over...Thats pretty scary but at least it’s not communicable.
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    Originally Posted by blue9steel View Post
    Did some very basic training around NBC protocols while in the Marines, my conclusion at the time was that if someone hit us with nerve gas or bioagents we were essentially toast. Proper donning/removal/use of equipment is pretty hard to do right even if you supposedly know what you're doing.
    I had some training in NBCW as well, the majority of my career was during the Cold War, the gas chamber is something everyone should experience once. lol.. I had a hell of a time getting my mask back on and a tight seal, finally got it but damn. Once we got outside the snot, tears and puke was flowing. Over the years we practiced many scenario's involving NBCW, the getting dressed to go out and then the decontamination was a major pain in the ass, but taught me a lot. I agree with you about us being toast. This virus lends testimony of how vulnerable our population would be if hit with an attack of agents.
    Last edited by mtpockets; 04-09-2020 at 10:10 AM.
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  16. #796
    We know lol Farley1324's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    Exactly. I was never in the military but am HAZMAT certified. Now we are essentially ignoring decon. I saw a lady yesterday wearing tyvec suit, swimming goggles, and a bunch of other stuff for a trip to the grocery store. Then she just got in her car without a second thought about the possibility that if she was contaminated she brought that into her “warm zone”. I’m not saying that all that stuff is necessary, but if you are going to try to use those types of “protections” at least understand their benefits / limitations. Back in the day (before the WMD Bush era invasion), Iraq had enough botulinum toxin to kill everyone in the world several times over...Thats pretty scary but at least it’s not communicable.
    Yeah...a lot of people have no idea lol but that is true of basically everything in life. Most of us don't know what we don't know about most things.


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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    This virus lends testimony of how vulnerable our population would be should if hit with an attack of agents.
    Or just a moderately nasty natural contagion.
    This is not the end, no it’s not even the beginning of the end. But it is perhaps, the end of the beginning.
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    Yeah...a lot of people have no idea lol but that is true of basically everything in life. Most of us don't know what we don't know about most things.


    BRB don't squat more than half (quarter) way down because you'll blow your knees out. BRB don't touch your chest with the bar doing bench and make sure you flare your elbows out at 90* for maximum pec activation.

    Soon as you learn even a little about something you realize what you didn't know and nobody else knows still



    Or just a moderately nasty natural contagion.
    Yup
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    Yeah...a lot of people have no idea lol but that is true of basically everything in life. Most of us don't know what we don't know about most things.


    BRB don't squat more than half (quarter) way down because you'll blow your knees out. BRB don't touch your chest with the bar doing bench and make sure you flare your elbows out at 90* for maximum pec activation.

    Soon as you learn even a little about something you realize what you didn't know and nobody else knows still



    Or just a moderately nasty natural contagion.
    Dunning Kruger effect is rampant everywhere. I hope it is confirmed through serology testing that this is WAY ahead of what they originally thought it was, and we will be or already are on the downward slope. Even then there would still be a lot of people infected as we transition back to normal or “new normal” life, especially in rural areas that were better isolated from the start. One of the many reasons when I retire I’m moving away from large cities and back to a rural area with land and solitude.
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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    I hope it is confirmed through serology testing that this is WAY ahead of what they originally thought it was, and we will be or already are on the downward slope.
    That's pretty much our expectation where I am. We're in the process of validating a number of serology assays and we're being careful in selecting our pool of presumed negative sera. Everything post Nov./2019 is automatically excluded.
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    I had some training in NBCW as well, the majority of my career was during the Cold War, the gas chamber is something everyone should experience once. lol.. I had a hell of a time getting my mask back on and a tight seal, finally got it but damn. Once we got outside the snot, tears and puke was flowing.
    Yeah, that experience left me so thankful I didn't end up with as an NBC specialist. Those guys had to do a full MOPP exposure to live nerve agents. *shudder*

    Funny story. When we were doing CS exposure training (military grade tear gas), our group had already gone through the chamber and was outside trying to recover. We see this guy come running out of the chamber trying to escape, immediately after you see the instructors arm reach out, grab him and drag him back in screaming. It was so fast, seemed almost like one of those cartoons where they use the crook to pull someone off the stage. We all got a good laugh out of that.
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    Originally Posted by blue9steel View Post
    Funny story. When we were doing CS exposure training (military grade tear gas), our group had already gone through the chamber and was outside trying to recover. We see this guy come running out of the chamber trying to escape, immediately after you see the instructors arm reach out, grab him and drag him back in screaming. It was so fast, seemed almost like one of those cartoons where they use the crook to pull someone off the stage. We all got a good laugh out of that.
    Ha Ha, I am guessing it wasn't that instructors first rodeo, he could probably pick out the ones with a little rabbit in them.
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    Did a small amount of Nuclear work when younger. Worked in some areas that had lowish levels of contamination (but definitely did have some contamination). The process to put on the PPE was pretty methodical but the process to take it off again was very exact and you need a room with a change table (like a bar counter but at table height to split room into clean/dirty) to take it off. If you even slightly screwed up the order or and touched something dirty on something clean you'd be in trouble.

    I never had problems but one day someone on another team who'd been working in same area as me must have messed up because he was in exit monitor next to me and it alarmed. Security team pounced on him in seconds and he was whisked off his feet back down the corridor by 2 guys faster/better than any nightclub bouncers ever ejected anyone.

    Anyway, if Covid requires even near that level of cleanliness to guarantee no infection it'd be impossible for average people even given full ppe, let alone a scarf round the face and woollen gloves like a few I've seen.
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    Originally Posted by OldFartTom View Post
    Did a small amount of Nuclear work when younger. Worked in some areas that had lowish levels of contamination (but definitely did have some contamination). The process to put on the PPE was pretty methodical but the process to take it off again was very exact and you need a room with a change table (like a bar counter but at table height to split room into clean/dirty) to take it off. If you even slightly screwed up the order or and touched something dirty on something clean you'd be in trouble.

    I never had problems but one day someone on another team who'd been working in same area as me must have messed up because he was in exit monitor next to me and it alarmed. Security team pounced on him in seconds and he was whisked off his feet back down the corridor by 2 guys faster/better than any nightclub bouncers ever ejected anyone.

    Anyway, if Covid requires even near that level of cleanliness to guarantee no infection it'd be impossible for average people even given full ppe, let alone a scarf round the face and woollen gloves like a few I've seen.
    It's not about a guarantee of no infection, of course...but pretty reasonable and obtainable steps can drastically cut chances, which can drastically cut total number of injected/sick (at least at any given time?)

    Like washing your hands well and regularly is no guarantee, but it lowers your chances, and if we all did it, there'd be less disease about.

    Different people are going to draw the line in different places for what constitutes "reasonable steps', though.

    I'd like to see the US adopt the use of masks that some asian countries have. Crammed into a crowded train or bus or tram, during cold season? Wear a mask, others are too (though not all), nothing out of the ordinary, you aren't a leper, it's fine. Sick with symptoms? STAY HOME you aren't a hardcore ironman wannabe Favre for powering through, you're getting other people sick (and when you go out in public anywhere with symptoms, where a mask, and it doesn't even get a second look)

    Maybe this will kick start a new way of looking at basic PPE. Even an improperly worn mask helps keep you from spewing your **** (symptomatic or not) in such quantity to other people, eh?
    This is not the end, no it’s not even the beginning of the end. But it is perhaps, the end of the beginning.
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    Hi Ben, back on 1st March you started the thread you wrote
    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    ...I am curious how concerned you are about it and if your life has changed in any way?... ... I for one am not changing my behavior at all.
    To return to your original post. I guess a lot has happened in the last month + or so and a lot has changed for most of us if not all of us.

    Definitely back then I wouldn't imagine going into a bank, petrol station, grocery store wearing a mask and gloves and it being "normal"

    I've always believed in hygiene like washing hands when come home from work, but never been indoors clean / outdoors dirty level of methodical hygiene like now.

    Never before considered self haircutting (although can't source clippers at moment) and coming to terms with idea of working from home which I've always hated and avoided (or in my new situation job seeking from home)

    Home workout without access to gym equipment is another change, I'm "comfortable" with headstand which never attempted before (still can't get frogstand right)

    Those are just a very few things scratching the surface. Where do we even start, to answer your original question???
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    Originally Posted by OldFartTom View Post

    Those are just a very few things scratching the surface. Where do we even start, to answer your original question???
    Touching my face. I don’t have to touch my face all day then I step outside and all of a sudden I’m a third base coach. It’s impossible.
    I thought she’d be there holding daisies.
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    Touching my face. I don’t have to touch my face all day then I step outside and all of a sudden I’m a third base coach. It’s horrible.
    I am terrible too, they say don't touch your face, but don't say anything about touching someone else's. If this goes on much longer I may need a nose scratching buddy
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    Andrew Cotter’s lockdown sports commentaries of his dogs is the best thing on twitter.

    https://twitter.com/mrandrewcotter/s...270596610?s=21
    I thought she’d be there holding daisies.
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    ^^^^^ That was awesome 7^^^^^^




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    Sweden is doing what many have suggested (protecting the vulnerable while having business as usual). Lets see how this plays out compared to those who took drastic measures very early and the US.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/10/europ...ntl/index.html

    April 8, coronavirus accounted for 67 fatalities per 1 million Swedish citizens, according to the Swedish Health Ministry. Norway had 19 deaths per million, Finland seven per million. The number of deaths rose 16% on Wednesday.
    After this has "run its course" we can look at the 3 ways this has been handled and hopefully be better prepared for Budweiser-20 next year.
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