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  1. #1
    Registered User Holyfenix's Avatar
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    Do we discuss political sides incorrectly?

    In the US the political landscape is mostly divided left and right. The left encompassing everything from communist to social libertarians and the right consisting of everything from neo Nazis to economic libertarians. The way this is often visualized is a line graph with different degrees of political stance or a square plot graph.


    It would seem to me that that a Communists and Neo Nazis have far more in common on how they think government should run than communists and moderate democrats. It would also seem that the groups near the middle of the line graph have far more in common than it would first appear as well. Perhaps not unsurprisingly the middle was mostly what had political power in this country for a long time and while there were always issues the republicans or democrats had hills they would die on they mostly were able to come to compromises on many issues, which is how the US government was intended to function. Since the end of the Bush administration ramping up significantly in the Obama administration it would appear that the fringes of both political parties have gained massive support in a relatively short time (a la the communist and fascist parties in Europe and Russia in the 1920's and 30's). History shows us that while both those sides were constantly fighting it often seemed to stem from less of political differences but they were two totalitarian regimes who both wanted total control. Hitler hated Stalin, but less because he was a communist and more because he just thought he was stupid, ironically he felt the same way about Mussolini and Francesco Franco as well. The Chinese and Soviet Union relations were fraught with suspicion as well, despite being allies.

    If Americans wanted to truly figure out who the enemy is they would lump all far left AND far right ideologies into one group and label them what they really are, which are totalitarians. It shouldn't be left vs. right like it is today. It should be Republicans and Democrats vs Socialists/Communists and Fascists/Nazis. The problem is that the socialists have dug their nails in deep in the democratic party, as if history repeating itself the establishment democrats aren't quite sure how to shake off their fleas. Additionally you are starting to see a resurgence of actual Fascists more often claiming allegiance to the right. Republicans have done much better in not letting people like that gain a foothold, but its always possible that with the rise of the extremist left the Republicans lose ground the extremist right as they are forced to fight an ideological war on two fronts. Ultimately because they are surging faster than the far right, the communists have a much better chance of becoming a major political power in the US.

    I almost feel like Bloomberg decided to run for president because he really does fall more in line with the mainstream Republicans and Democrats than the right gives him credit for and he sees the true danger in electing someone like Sanders to office, not just for himself personally, which enough communist rule and people like him will just be killed off, but for the country and by extension the entire world.
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  2. #2
    Super Macho FatBallz's Avatar
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    That's what happens when you go to the extremes of either side. It comes full circle and they basically want the same things.

    This seems to happen when people keep pushing an ideology and it just circles back. Interestingly, those people pushing it don't seem to recognize it.

    For example, so called progressives, who are obsessed with things like skin color just like neo nazis, push to separate people into classifications. They want special accommodations/treatment for different races. It's getting close to the point where far left progressives will push for "colored" bathrooms, which is the opposite of what progressives fought for in the past.

    The irony of course is that this was the neo nazi's position the whole time.
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    You are correct. If you use a simple line to chart it, its not possible to see the full picture. One example I like to use is the Nazi regime. It had a strong military, which people naturally throw to the right. But where it falls apart is how powerful the government was over the people. On the right, the government wouldn't be able to have that kind of power, it would be smaller and weaker.
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    Registered User Holyfenix's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FatBallz View Post
    That's what happens when you go to the extremes of either side. It comes full circle and they basically want the same things.

    This seems to happen when people keep pushing an ideology and it just circles back. Interestingly, those people pushing it don't seem to recognize it.

    For example, so called progressives, who are obsessed with things like skin color just like neo nazis, push to separate people into classifications. They want special accommodations/treatment for different races. It's getting close to the point where far left progressives will push for "colored" bathrooms, which is the opposite of what progressives fought for in the past.

    The irony of course is that this was the neo nazi's position the whole time.
    This is exactly what I'm talking about, and why I think we need to reclassify politics as no longer right and left. Right and left is too simplistic and gives the extremes somewhere to hide their true goals while undermining each side. I think the real problem is that those in the democratic areas of the circle don't discuss this enough openly. Again the republicans are better at this, out rightly and vehemently denying that the fringe groups that have latched themselves to the right. Unfortunately to do this they often say that they Nazis were actually socialists, which while technically correct causes the problem of painting them as being on the side of the democrats. I know for a fact that most democrats are not socialists/communists/progressives/Nazis. But those extremist political ideologies are so adept at finding weakness, and the democrat party being more open to differing opinions is the weakness they are using in this case. The party platform for the Dems is quickly transitioning to the extremes of socialism and its causing a massive issue for their party and will have long term societal impacts if they don't figure out a way to combat this surge. I think the republicans have shown more than enough interest in helping the Democrats fight this enemy, but the Dems are falling victim to the rhetoric of the far left in that republicans are the enemy because neo Nazis try and side with them, while ironically realizing they have a similar problem of their own.

    Originally Posted by wesleysh21 View Post
    You are correct. If you use a simple line to chart it, its not possible to see the full picture. One example I like to use is the Nazi regime. It had a strong military, which people naturally throw to the right. But where it falls apart is how powerful the government was over the people. On the right, the government wouldn't be able to have that kind of power, it would be smaller and weaker.
    I agree and the Nazi strategy to take over control of government was brilliant. It was straight out of Sun Tzu's art of war and the ideologies that have latched themselves on the "left" are using the same exact tactics and at no surprise to anyone they are insanely successful.

    My real concern is I don't exactly know how to convince moderate democrats that 1) How to convince both sides that we reframe our discussions about the political landscape and 2) we need to work together to push back extremism, We need to do it quickly, and we need to go all out on it, while also working together to actually find solutions to the very real problems that those same extremist ideologies are focusing on.
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  5. #5
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    Republicans are basically Democrats from 5-8 years ago. You can blame the immigration disaster on them just as much as tardlibs. R's and D's neither care about the country and neither are Nationalists.
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