Bernie Bros, I Like My Healthcare..Convince Me A Public Option Would Be Better For Me

[dabbmw2002]

I'm in the same boat, for the foreseeable future, but I could get a letter in the mail any day telling me it's over.

I don't know how you can have an honest conversation about this without putting yourself in one of your countryman's shoes.

I've been uninsured, and I've had medical bills that I got behind on. It was 100% my fault.

[RIKTER]

What’s best for my country is to not pay healthcare costs for illegals. Let’s start there. Once we get the illegal immigrant problem under control then we can talk. This includes illegals that are already here and those that are on their way.

Now you're just being racist....

[JoshSP1985]

Right....that's why in the US the #1 cause of foreclosures and bankruptcies are medical bills right? I guess all of those people didn't have family/community/church to rely on.

Funny how real life works differently than an idea that lasts for a few seconds in your head.

As if you can't declare bankruptcy and get help getting back on your feet at the same time. Hell my parents themselves hosted a woman and her children from our church when I was a child. We hosted her until habitat was able to build her a home.

[dmike100]

I've been uninsured, and I've had medical bills that I got behind on. It was 100% my fault.

It's just like the college loan argument. People can pay more than the minimum amount and get out of debt. It is all 100% within their span of control. But they have been raised to place blame on everything but themselves, so it should be someone else's problem.

[128]

Bernie needs you to give all that up and pay more in taxes to support people who are irresponsible and will abuse the system without contributing...cause who cares about quality and sustainability when you can call it “free”

[JoshSP1985]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but Bernie aims to replicate a system similar to Canada's. And as you may or may not know, free public health care in Canada is an absolute mess. Wait times for simple procedures such as MRI's or meeting with specialist take anywhere from 6-12 months... minimum. Wait times at hospitals are 6-7hrs long. And this is only for 37million people. Imagine the USA trying to pull something like free health care off with 10x the population(yes i know the USA also has 10x the GDP than Canada as well). The cost would be astronomical and it would be set up to fail just like Canada's.

We also already have a physician shortage. Now imagine drastically increasing utilization. It's scientific fact that people over utilize when they aren't paying for it directly.

What could go wrong?

[dmike100]

Will the proposed system treat our politicians and celebrities the same way everyone else gets treated?

[Tamorlane]

[TheSandHusky]

The majority of Americans have healthcare, so the majority of Americans will see a worsening of their care.
Not a compelling argument.

If you don’t think it’s a human right then there’s no real argument to be made as the economics seem to be fuzzy at best. Each side obviously claims their way will help economy long term.


Personally find myself very split on this issue. On one hand, I can see specialists w/in a month, even sooner if I’m willing to travel outside of my area. I pay a reasonable price for my prescription medication and my doctor visits. It’s been a smooth process for me. On the other hand, what if I was suddenly fired and unable to find a job? Or god forbid something happens to me that prevents me from working for an extended period? Then I think that there are surely people in that same position right now and can’t help but feel empathy.

What could be a way to help the minority who find themselves in ****ty situations, without worsening my healthcare? If the price was a tax increase I wouldn’t be opposed to it personally, but I don’t think there’s any realistic scenario where quality of healthcare for those w/ private insurance doesn’t dip if we cover everyone. Only so many doctors and hospitals.

[anonymous]

you are currently paying for this by way of supply and demand. as medical costs increase, do you think the insurance companies will take a loss or do you think they will raise your premiums?

yall miscers are paying for it one way or another, unless you are exposed by being uninsured.

Good point, let's pay for it via vastly increased taxes instead and lose our healthcare plans at the same time.

Sounds amazing

[Seatard]

It's just like the college loan argument. People can pay more than the minimum amount and get out of debt. It is all 100% within their span of control. But they have been raised to place blame on everything but themselves, so it should be someone else's problem.

It depends on the goal.

I'm not sure I would have been able to figure out on my own how to fix a broken wrist, or build a phone to call the doctor. So obviously, I need other people to be educated, as much as possible, so I have options. This requires some sort of system in place that handles both the education and financial side.

[soaponarope1]

Wow not a single one? Well i'm convinced! Some guy named soaonarope on a bodybuilding forum says it doesn't happen so it must be true. After all he's super popular and knows everyone.

How health care costs are linked to foreclosures
https://www.curbed.com/2017/6/26/158...t-foreclosures

This is the real reason most Americans file for bankruptcy
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/this...ankruptcy.html

Medical Causes and Consequences of Home Foreclosures.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26536913

New study finds 45,000 deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/sto...alth-coverage/



Right. But we're not talking about you, we're talking about the United States as a whole.

American health care system costs four times more than Canada's single-payer system
https://www.latimes.com/science/stor...e-payer-system

Sure, it's anecdotal, but don't tell people it's some huge concern when the vast majority of people will never meet someone who goes bankrupt from health expenses. Also, the fix for that issue is not to give virtually unlimited power to government, but to overhaul how regulations have fuked up hospital billing and insurance. Also, stop allowing illegals to drain resources.

Around 550,000 Americans declare bankruptcy due to medical expenses in a given year. That makes up 0.167% of the population. It simply isn't a widespread issue, as I stated. Sorry that you're wrong.

Again, places like Amazon and Safeway are hiring at $15-$17+ an hour with no interview. My areas regional transportation system has a shortage of bus and light rail drivers, which start at $45,000 and $50,000 respectively. If you don't do drugs you can get any of these jobs that come with full benefits at an extremely affordable cost. In the United States, the only way to not have good insurance is to simply not prioritize it in your life. It's not my job to save my neighbor from himself, although I would give the shirt off my back to him if asked.

[semitope]

Srs. In 2019, I saw my GP, two different gastroenterologists and a orthopedic surgeon. Had MRI on my back, an abdominal CT, and a trans nasal endoscopy . Did I pay some out if pocket? Yes, but there were almost no wait times. MRI was on a Sunday, empty waiting room, sign in and right to the machine. Sane with the CT. I love the fact I can get these procedures done with no waiting lines or crowded doctor offices. Convince me why I should give that up for higher taxes, and convince me the government would be just as efficient.

so basically you prefer it when other people can't get the service they need so you can wait less. Because that's all this wait times thing comes up to.

[dabbmw2002]

It's just like the college loan argument. People can pay more than the minimum amount and get out of debt. It is all 100% within their span of control. But they have been raised to place blame on everything but themselves, so it should be someone else's problem.

Yup. I'm still paying my loans and I have no problem doing so. I would have more compassion if I didn't see so many people acting entitled. I've met too many people irl that just suck and take no personal responsibility.

[AltarOfPlagues]

lets go back to the fukkin basics

neoliberal (freemarket) economic theory suggests that there are several companies out there that offer a product that i need. i take a look at the specs of the product and the costs of each. i pick the right one for me. in this case, the price information is absolutely critical to a proper decision.

free market economic theory suggest that the control of markets by a government entity mutes that markets ability to shift according to price, availability and need. this distortion ranges from hampering growth and innovation to complete breaking that market entirely through economic stagnation (venezuela).

this is all well and good as long as we can price shop. however, healthcare doesnt remotely work this way. the cost to the patient is obscured through layers of complexity. the actual cost of the procedure is negotiated between the provider and insurer. this breaks pareto outcome optimality.

[AltarOfPlagues]

Good point, let's pay for it via vastly increased taxes instead and lose our healthcare plans at the same time.

Sounds amazing

it is conceivable (tho possibly mathematically impossible to calculate) that you will pay LESS money because you (the average american) are overpaying currently because the market is so broken.

it is possible that miscers believe that it makes sense to pay more money for medical care simply because those who cant afford it and wouldnt pursue it shouldn't have it. is this idea of "deserve" worth some premium in and of itself.

is it worth keeping a broken system because it is in line with ones personal ideology?

[SaltyDog920]

what waiting room would you die in, hypothetically?

you have a life threatening injury and you're goin to some outpatient place?

There's about as many stories of people losing their homes due to healthcare expense as there are of people dying while waiting to get care in Canada. The point is, if tammy is going to use an almost not existent statistic to make its point, I'll do the same. Then, I'll choose the lesser of two evils.

Odd that you want to call out the near non existent statistic of people dying while waiting for healthcare being pointed out, but don't want to call out the near non existent statistic of home loss due to healthcare expense. Maybe check your bias?

[Seatard]

lets go back to the fukkin basics... pareto outcome optimality.

Zero to Einstein in 2.6 seconds.

[Tamorlane]

it is conceivable (tho possibly mathematically impossible to calculate) that you will pay LESS money because you (the average american) are overpaying currently because the market is so broken.

the drug and health care companies:

[dabbmw2002]

so basically you prefer it when other people can't get the service they need so you can wait less. Because that's all this wait times thing comes up to.

Yes

[AltarOfPlagues]

the fatties are fukkin coming bros. the fitness industry and weightloss industry combined are 100 billion. the fatties are only increasing.

we need to weigh all our options we can afford to be idealistic

[dmike100]

so basically you prefer it when other people can't get the service they need so you can wait less. Because that's all this wait times thing comes up to.

Speed is important, but so is quality and competency of care. All of which will suffer under the new system. And, to be honest, I don't think it is fair to expect people to pay for other people's poor life choices.

[AltarOfPlagues]

I don't think it is fair to expect people to pay for other people's poor life choices.

this is the crux of the issue.

but the market doesnt care about your notions of "fair". if everyone is fukkin dying from obesity, it's gonna be expensive for you to get a EKG whether you're paying for it in taxes or through your insurance company. the government is beaurocratic and the insurance company is incentivised to fuk you over.

[TheSandHusky]

lets go back to the fukkin basics

neoliberal (freemarket) economic theory suggests that there are several companies out there that offer a product that i need. i take a look at the specs of the product and the costs of each. i pick the right one for me. in this case, the price information is absolutely critical to a proper decision.

free market economic theory suggest that the control of markets by a government entity mutes that markets ability to shift according to price, availability and need. this distortion ranges from hampering growth and innovation to complete breaking that market entirely through economic stagnation (venezuela).

this is all well and good as long as we can price shop. however, healthcare doesnt remotely work this way. the cost to the patient is obscured through layers of complexity. the actual cost of the procedure is negotiated between the provider and insurer. this breaks pareto outcome optimality.

Very true that our system is ****ed in that way, but where do we even start to fix that? One can not compare our health system with one in Europe when we are leading the world in R&D.

People always like to treat big Pharma as the villain, but they need to profit like everyone else, and R&D doesn’t come cheap. Just feels like a very weird situation where nobody is really soaking in all the profits, and nobody seems to have a clue of what to do.

[Tamorlane]

to be honest, I don't think it is fair to expect people to pay for other people's poor life choices.

So you're for privatizing police, ambulance and fire response services? You'd be okay with missing a payment for a day and having your house left to burn down or loved one not recusitated? Or the privately owned companies deciding they don't want to cover you? Maybe you're a couple miles past their line.

[taf1968]

heres good reasons to look at doing something more economical. shiit gonna get much worse as obesity approaches 50%.

if its at all possible that single payer might be more affordable in the long long run, it's worth investigating for reasons of existential threat to our future.

You don't force everyone to drive a Yugo because there's an element of the population who isn't responsible enough to have a corvette.

If the idea is to create a "public option" of some kind so the less fortunate and/or the irresponsible can get "ok care" at a more affordable rate (with the longer wait times, etc) then fine. Leave the private system in place for the huge part of the population that likes it and takes better care of themselves.

[Seatard]

I've been uninsured, and I've had medical bills that I got behind on. It was 100% my fault.

Your medical bills aren't 100% your responsibility, a fraction of them are my responsibility because one, you coughing up corona virus all over our bus on the way to work is my problem, and two, I won't be able to drag your bloated dead ass out of the aisle by myself when you get behind on your medical bills.

[semitope]

Speed is important, but so is quality and competency of care. All of which will suffer under the new system. And, to be honest, I don't think it is fair to expect people to pay for other people's poor life choices.

Why would it suffer? doctors, nurses etc would be less educated?

"other people's poor choices" - like being born with a chronic illness... or not being rich.

[dabbmw2002]

Your medical bills aren't 100% your responsibility, a fraction of them are my responsibility because one, you coughing up corona virus all over our bus on the way to work is my problem, and two, I won't be able to drag your bloated dead ass out of the aisle by myself when you get behind on your medical bills.

You seem very angry , but then again, if you ride the bus I don't blame you.

[elterrible987]

Srs. In 2019, I saw my GP, two different gastroenterologists and a orthopedic surgeon. Had MRI on my back, an abdominal CT, and a trans nasal endoscopy . Did I pay some out if pocket? Yes, but there were almost no wait times. MRI was on a Sunday, empty waiting room, sign in and right to the machine. Sane with the CT. I love the fact I can get these procedures done with no waiting lines or crowded doctor offices. Convince me why I should give that up for higher taxes, and convince me the government would be just as efficient.

Bernie said it will save 60,000 lives. If you dont vote for Bernie, you're literally voting to kill 60,000 Americans and untold number of illegals.