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  1. #1
    Somebody's daughter Retoaded's Avatar
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    Sanders voters, a question: What do you do for a living?

    title.
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  2. #2
    Medallion Wearing CEO10k Ephedra's Avatar
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    Can't imagine anything >$30k
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    full time equality advocate on social media

    No one actually pays me but I still have about $40k in student loans i can tap into plus a few credit cards, once Bernie is elected all of my hard work will pay off.
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  4. #4
    Jacques Rhott Bushmaster's Avatar
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  5. #5
    kein mitleid fr mehrheit Stizzel's Avatar
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    If Im voting sanders in the primary but not the general do i count?
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    📶 🔌🔋 99% LukeLissen's Avatar
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    Another question to ask them:


    Can you explain which socialist country you aspire to be like, or at least one that inspires confidence in you that socialism will create a great America?

    Here's the complete list of past and present socialist countries to choose from:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states
    Last edited by LukeLissen; 02-24-2020 at 08:28 AM.
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  7. #7
    Somebody's daughter Retoaded's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LukeLissen View Post
    Another question to ask them:


    Can you explain which socialist country you aspire to be like, or at least one that inspires confidence in you that socialism will create a great America?

    Here's the complete list of past and present socialist countries to choose from:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states
    nah trying to keep this simple.


    so far, there are no Sanders voters on the R/P board. Which is strange considering the number of threads started, but anyway.
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  8. #8
    Registered User wake_me's Avatar
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    clearly a trick question.
    PM me if you need someone to talk to
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  9. #9
    Registered User redmelly's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Stizzel View Post
    If Im voting sanders in the primary but not the general do i count?
    I'm doing this as well. Trump will 100% win against Bern.
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  10. #10
    Unregistered User jlick's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ephedra View Post
    Can't imagine anything >$30k
    you can't...but it's absolutely true. There are people who make well over 30K a year who plan on voting for bernie. My sister, who is a party insider of the democrats, thinks that people who support bernie and make a lot of money are naive in their support for him and probably do so because they were once poor themselves. She also thinks Bernie getting the nomination would be "really bad for down-ticket dems" and he would be horribly ineffective as a President (she still would vote for him over Trump, though).
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  11. #11
    Banned Travis99's Avatar
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  12. #12
    Banned AriGhold's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LukeLissen View Post
    Another question to ask them:


    Can you explain which socialist country you aspire to be like, or at least one that inspires confidence in you that socialism will create a great America?

    Here's the complete list of past and present socialist countries to choose from:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states
    Pretty dishonest. Par for the course from you, tho.
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  13. #13
    📶 🔌🔋 99% LukeLissen's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AriGhold View Post
    Pretty dishonest. Par for the course from you, tho.
    ???

    Nothing whatsoever dishonest about it.

    That is the list of all past and present socialist countries. Anyone who wants a socialist country should be able to tell us which one(s) of those create confidence in them that the US can work well as a socialist state.

    It's a very straightforward and legitimate question.

    If there are no socialist states that inspire confidence in you, then you shouldn't be supporting it here either.
    Last edited by LukeLissen; 02-24-2020 at 08:48 AM.
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  14. #14
    Banned AriGhold's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LukeLissen View Post
    ???

    Nothing whatsoever dishonest about it.

    That is the list of all past and present socialist countries. Anyone who wants a socialist country should be able to tell us which one(s) of those create confidence in them that the US can work well as a socialist state.

    It's an very straightforward and legitimate question.

    If there are no socialist states that inspire confidence in you, then you shouldn't be supporting it here either.
    It’s dishonest to imply America would become a socialist country by electing Bernie. Please explain that. A more fair comparison would be Canada, Sweden, or Denmark. But that doesn’t scare people so you have to sell a lie.
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  15. #15
    Registered User Ten_Hearts's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Retoaded View Post
    title.
    Engineer

    Originally Posted by LukeLissen View Post
    Another question to ask them:


    Can you explain which socialist country you aspire to be like, or at least one that inspires confidence in you that socialism will create a great America?

    Here's the complete list of past and present socialist countries to choose from:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states
    I'm not a socialist but I like strong social programs.
    _____________

    __________
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  16. #16
    most hated iamxclusive's Avatar
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    guessing..

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    anything customer service
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  17. #17
    kein mitleid fr mehrheit Stizzel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AriGhold View Post
    It’s dishonest to imply America would become a socialist country by electing Bernie. Please explain that. A more fair comparison would be Canada, Sweden, or Denmark. But that doesn’t scare people so you have to sell a lie.
    Bernie talks about scandinavia because he"s a fraud (very common amongst socialists). We would have to massively deregulate to copy them and beach house bernard wants the opposite.

    No one other than his vocal minority of losers and leeches is buying it.
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  18. #18
    ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Tamorlane's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AriGhold View Post
    It’s dishonest to imply America would become a socialist country by electing Bernie. Please explain that. A more fair comparison would be Canada, Sweden, or Denmark. But that doesn’t scare people so you have to sell a lie.
    This. It’s pathetic. But the more people like him keep screeching at the sky calling Sanders something he isn’t the more his neighbors in Mississippi will be impressed by his policies and proposals that will help them in their day to day lives.
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  19. #19
    kein mitleid fr mehrheit Stizzel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by redmelly View Post
    I'm doing this as well. Trump will 100% win against Bern.
    So does opie want our incomes? Still not sure
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  20. #20
    Somebody's daughter Retoaded's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ten_Hearts View Post
    Engineer
    Thanks for actually responding - what type of engineer? PE?

    (this is more out of curiosity - I am a civil consultant, PE)
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  21. #21
    Somebody's daughter Retoaded's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Stizzel View Post
    So does opie want our incomes? Still not sure
    not at all, thats private info. I mean, for most people. I know all miscers make about 350k.
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  22. #22
    Registered User Ten_Hearts's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Retoaded View Post
    Thanks for actually responding - what type of engineer? PE?

    (this is more out of curiosity - I am a civil consultant, PE)
    Nice profession. Quality engineer in the pharmaceutical industry, no PE.
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  23. #23
    Registered User TrueTruth's Avatar
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    As if lyin’ leftists would ever tell the truth. They can’t even admit that they are a hardcore partisan Demotard voters, every leftist that you talk to claims to be a “moderate centrist” while bubbling everything that has (D) next to their name. Bernie himself is a clown who pretends to be “Independent” because he thinks it makes him look cool.

    Leftist imagination: CEO 10K/day, lambo, mansion.

    Reality: Unemployed lazy welfare bum with a worthless liberal arts degree and 100K in student debt.

    No adult with self-respect, work ethic, and a sense of personal responsibility will ever vote for someone like Panders. Period.
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    Originally Posted by Retoaded View Post
    Thanks for actually responding - what type of engineer? PE?

    (this is more out of curiosity - I am a civil consultant, PE)
    My dad is a civil engineer PE. He was a democrat for most of his life since he came to America. I think Al Gore was the last democrat he voted for. He loves Trump now though!
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    Originally Posted by Ephedra View Post
    Can't imagine anything >$30k
    I'm sure its fun to mock bernie supporters as lowlifes trying to cheat the system because they want free "everything" but i'm not sure thats entirely the case.

    I don't know anyone personally, but I live in La Jolla California. The median household income in this area of San Diego is $120k/year and there are freakin' Bernie signs and bumper stickers on cars all over the place. I just came back from the gym about an hour ago and saw a Bernie bumpersticker on a G-Class Mercedes.....so, i'm not sure what thats suppose to say about some people.
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    Originally Posted by AriGhold View Post
    It’s dishonest to imply America would become a socialist country by electing Bernie. Please explain that. A more fair comparison would be Canada, Sweden, or Denmark. But that doesn’t scare people so you have to sell a lie.
    Bernie claims to be a 'Democratic Socialist.'

    Straight from the Democratic Socialists of America:


    https://www.vox.com/first-person/201...sm-jacobin-dsa

    In the long run, democratic socialists want to end capitalism. And we want to do that by pursuing a reform agenda today in an effort to revive a politics focused on class hierarchy and inequality in the United States.
    ...
    Pooling society’s resources to meet people’s basic needs is a tenet of social democracy, one that’s been advocated domestically by much of the labor movement and many of its political supporters among New Deal and post-New Deal liberals. This is a vision we share. But we also want more than FDR did. A robust welfare state in an economy that’s still organized around capitalists’ profits can mitigate the worst inequalities for a while, but it’s at best a temporary truce between bosses and workers — and one that the former will look to scrap as soon as they can.
    ...
    Many observers see groups like DSA pushing for policies like Medicare-for-all and decide that we must actually be something like New Deal liberals who are simply confused about the meaning of socialism. That’s not true. Our goal is not to rein in the excesses of capitalism for a few decades at a time — we want to end our society’s subservience to the market.
    ...
    So why are democratic socialists not demanding an NHS right now? Because we currently don’t have the support to push for and win such an ambitious program. Social democratic reforms like Medicare-for-all are, in the eyes of DSA, part of the long, uneven process of building that support, and eventually overthrowing capitalism.
    ...






    https://www.hoover.org/research/how-...bernie-sanders

    How Socialist Is Bernie Sanders?
    by Paul R. Gregory
    Thursday, May 2, 2019

    The candidacy of Bernie Sanders for the Democratic nomination raises the real prospect of an avowed socialist as President of the United States. Notably, Sanders reveals little about what socialism means to him, other than giving many things away free. He disarms critics by asserting that he is not a “socialist” but a “Democratic Socialist,” without defining what that means.

    Sanders, however, is not the only self-declared “Democratic Socialist” around. The largest American socialist party, the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA), unlike Sanders, openly declares its intent to abolish capitalism as we know it. A staff writer for a DSA house publication could not be clearer: “In the long run, democratic socialists want to end capitalism…we want to end our society’s subservience to the market.”

    Does Sanders agree? That is the question.

    Socialism burst on the American political scene with Sanders’ strong bid for the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination. Not a one-time fluke, Sanders currently ranks at the top of the crowded 2020 Democratic field. The 2018 elections of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC) and Rashida Tlaib to the House added momentum to the socialist chic sweeping the country. In the past few years, candidates identifying themselves as socialist have won more than 50 state and municipal offices, the latest being the election of five candidates to the Chicago city council.

    Sanders has spent a long political career obfuscating his true political beliefs. The media rarely pushes back on his standard platitudes, such as “we must create an economy that works for all, not just the very wealthy.” His two-minute video, promising to explain his brand of socialism, leaves the viewer clueless, probably deliberately. Sanders insists that he is not a “socialist” but a “Democratic Socialist,” as if the difference is self-explanatory. When pressed further about his Democratic Socialism, he resorts to filibustering about the Scandinavian-like paradise of free medicine and education, guaranteed jobs, livable wages, and other free things he intends to introduce when elected. He does not bother to note that the Nordic states rank among the most free-enterprise economies of the globe.

    Understanding what Sanders means by Democratic Socialism has taken on a sense of urgency with his candidacy. He is bolstered by positive views of socialism among majorities of young people and Democrats. His primary opponents line up to sign on to a Green New Deal, increased marginal tax rates, Sanders’ own “Medicare-for-all,” and other “progressive” measures. Oddly, socialist candidate Sanders has proven to be a formidable fundraiser.

    The Democratic Socialists of America is America’s largest socialist party. It has grown from 6,000 to 60,000 dues-paying members in the last eight years and counts two members of Congress – Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC) and Rashida Tlaib -- in its ranks. AOC has become a media favorite and her Green New Deal has become a mainstay of the progressive agenda.

    Unlike Sanders, the Democratic Socialists are not reticent to explain in detail their core principles in party brochures and in-house periodicals, such as The Jacobin and The Socialist Call. In writing for a sympathetic audience, they are candid in spelling out the principles of their brand of Democratic Socialism, which include:

    First, Democratic Socialism wants more than an expansive welfare state. In their writings, Democratic Socialists emphasize that their brand “is not just New Deal liberalism.” It must go beyond checking the worst of capitalism with progressive legislation. Progressive gains, they argue, are inevitably transitory and will be reversed as long as the economy remains organized around capitalist profits.

    Second, capitalism is a zero-sum game in which the rich get richer by making the poor and working class worse off. Capitalist profits are based on the exploitation of labor. The less the worker gets, the higher the capitalist’s profit. Capitalism is a “race to the bottom” as capitalists seek out the lowest wages and thereby lower living standards the world over. In addition, capital strike -- the withholding of investment or threats to take capital elsewhere -- gives the capitalists “power to determine whether or not we have jobs and thus the ability to provide for ourselves.”

    Third, the poor, working class, and other underdogs can overturn the capitalist order only if they are organized. Grass-roots organizing begins with community organizers and then moves up the chain. As long as workers, the poor, minorities, women, LGBT communities, immigrants, and the unemployed remain divided, capitalists will continue to enjoy their power advantage. In their fight against economic exploitation, mass incarceration, police brutality, gender violence, LGBT intolerance, job and housing discrimination, and deportations, “normal people — when they’re not organized — have next to no power.”

    Fourth and most important, capital must be publicly owned because there is no real democracy with private ownership of capital. Democratic Socialists grant that the poor and working class can vote for progressive causes, but capitalists can counter this by using their wealth to bury progressive legislation. “As long as a handful of elite capitalists get to call the shots, the playing field will be tilted in their favor.” The Democratic Socialist solution: Transfer capital to worker or municipal ownership. Corporations must be owned and controlled by workers or directed by state planners or regulators. Finance should be nationalized so that major investment decisions are made by public authorities. How Democratic Socialists will go about transferring private capital to “true democratic control” is unclear, because the “people have to decide.”

    Sanders is fully on board with the DSA narratives of capitalist exploitation and the need to organize. Sanders declares that: “We work somebody to the point of no return, and we get rid of them and get somebody else in. It’s not a culture where people are respected, are nourished.” In Sanders’ stump speeches, the exploited worker is no longer Karl Marx’s miner or steel worker but the Amazon employee toiling away in a window-less warehouse contemplating suicide. With respect to organizing, Sanders calls for “a political revolution to transform our country economically, politically, socially and environmentally." Only by organizing the people against corporations and the rich can special interests be defeated and progressive reforms enacted into law.

    There seems to be no distance between Sanders and DSA on progressive legislation, organizing, and exploitation. This leaves the core issue of nationalization.

    According to CNN files, Sanders advocated in the 1970s the nationalization of most major industries. According to Sanders then: “The oil industry, and the entire energy industry, should be owned by the public and used for the public good — not for additional profits for billionaires.” When asked recently whether his position on nationalization has changed, Sanders pivoted to his “free stuff” filibuster. No answer.

    What Sanders advocated a half-century back is much less important than his current legislative initiatives. Let’s face it: Sanders’ signature Medicare-for-all, as laid out in his Senate bill, nationalizes all medical care. Private health insurance and employer insurance disappear and private providers must reorganize as non-profits and/or governmental organizations. A massive government bureaucracy determines our medical care – a sort of super VA. If Sanders is prepared to nationalize one fifth of the economy, he should have no qualms about doing the same to his loathed private energy and finance sectors.

    Marx declared that a socialist revolution would be required to part the capitalists from their capital. Democratic Socialists (DSA and Sanders) see a different path to what they consider true democracy: Organize the poor, the working class, and all other oppressed groups into what James Madison called an “overbearing majority.” Such a coalition would have enough power to transfer capital to the state by “democratic means.”

    Is Bernie Sanders truly Democratic Socialist? Or is he, to ask the question posed by a Democratic insider, “pretending to be a socialist.” Let us hope that he will be challenged to reveal more of himself on the campaign trail as the media tires of his long list of freebies. American voters have the right to know.






    ...


    Sanders was in fact a full-fledged socialist in the past and is confirmed to have been a member of socialist organizations.

    It is he and only he who will be forced to either support or disavow socialism.
    Last edited by LukeLissen; 02-24-2020 at 09:10 AM.
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    Originally Posted by Maestro View Post
    I'm sure its fun to mock bernie supporters as lowlifes trying to cheat the system because they want free "everything" but i'm not sure thats entirely the case.

    I don't know anyone personally, but I live in La Jolla California. The median household income in this area of San Diego is $120k/year and there are freakin' Bernie signs and bumper stickers on cars all over the place.
    probably hipsters from PB trying to catch a view in La Jolla
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    Originally Posted by Travis99 View Post
    Live in their parents basement
    Literally this, telling everyone how intelligent you are online is a fulltime job that doesn't leave much time left over for earning a living

    And manage their stepfather's investments by pulling his money out of the market during a bull run
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    Originally Posted by Halfway View Post
    Literally this, telling everyone how intelligent you are online is a fulltime job that doesn't leave much time left over for earning a living

    And manage their stepfather's investments by pulling his money out of the market during a bull run
    Legit lol'd
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