New M4A Study: Will Save Americans $450 Billion and Prevent 68,000 Unnecessary Deaths

[NitrogenWidget]

New study finds 45,000 deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/sto...alth-coverage/

This is the real reason most Americans file for bankruptcy
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/this...ankruptcy.html

How health care costs are linked to foreclosures
https://www.curbed.com/2017/6/26/158...t-foreclosures

No thanks.
No surprise Bernie wants to use canada's healthcare system in america.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypi.../#15b72dfe3e7d

Canadians Are One In A Million -- While Waiting For Medical Treatment

Canada's single-payer healthcare system forced over 1 million patients to wait for necessary medical treatments last year. That's an all-time record.

Those long wait times were more than just a nuisance; they cost patients $1.9 billion in lost wages, according to a new report by the Fraser Institute, a Vancouver-based think-tank.

Lengthy treatment delays are the norm in Canada and other single-payer nations, which ration care to keep costs down. Yet more and more Democratic leaders are pushing for a single-payer system -- and more and more voters are clamoring for one.


Today In: Industry
Indeed, three in four Americans now support a national health plan -- and a new NBC/Wall Street Journal poll finds that health care is the most important issue for voters in the coming election.

The leading proponent of transitioning the United States to a single-payer system is Sen. Bernie Sanders, Vermont's firebrand independent. If Sanders and his allies succeed, Americans will face the same delays and low-quality care as their neighbors to the north.


By his own admission, Sen. Sanders' "Medicare for All" bill is modeled on Canada's healthcare system. On a fact-finding trip to Canada last fall, Sanders praised the country for "guaranteeing health care to all people," noting that "there is so much to be learned" from the Canadian system.

The only thing Canadian patients are "guaranteed" is a spot on a waitlist. As the Fraser report notes, in 2017, more than 173,000 patients waited for an ophthalmology procedure. Another 91,000 lined up for some form of general surgery, while more than 40,000 waited for a urology procedure.

All told, nearly 3% of Canada's population was waiting for some kind of medical care at the end of last year.

Those delays were excruciatingly long. After receiving a referral from a general practitioner, the typical patient waited more than 21 weeks to receive treatment from a specialist. That was the longest average waiting period on record -- and more than double the median wait in 1993.

Rural patients faced even longer delays. For instance, the average Canadian in need of orthopedic surgery waited almost 24 weeks for treatment -- but the typical patient in rural Nova Scotia waited nearly 39 weeks for the same procedure.

One Ontario woman, Judy Congdon, learned that she needed a hip replacement in 2016, according to the Toronto Sun. Doctors initially scheduled the procedure for September 2017 -- almost a year later. The surgery never happened on schedule. The hospital ran over budget, forcing physicians to postpone the operation for another year.

In the United States, suffering for a year or more before receiving a joint replacement is unheard of. In Canada, it's normal.

Canadians lose a lot of money waiting for their "free" socialized medicine. On average, patients forfeit over $1,800 in lost wages. And that's only counting the working hours they miss due to pain and immobility.

The Fraser Institute researchers also calculated the value of all the waking hours that patients lost because they couldn't fully function. The toll was staggering -- almost $5,600 per patient, totaling $5.8 billion nationally. And those calculations ignore the value of uncompensated care provided by family members, who often take time off work or quit their jobs to help ill loved ones.

Canada isn't an anomaly. Every nation that offers government-funded, universal coverage features long wait times. When the government makes health care "free," consumers' demand for medical services surges. Patients have no incentive to limit their doctor visits or choose more cost-efficient providers.

To prevent expenses from ballooning, the government sets strict budget caps that only enable hospitals to hire a limited number of staff and purchase a meager amount of equipment. Demand inevitably outstrips supply. Shortages result.

Just look at the United Kingdom's government enterprise, the National Health Service, which turns 70 this July. Today, British hospitals are so overcrowded that doctors regularly treat patients in hallways. The agency recently canceled tens of thousands of surgeries, including urgent cancer procedures, because of severe resource shortages. And this winter, nearly 17,000 patients waited in the backs of their ambulances -- many for an hour or more -- before hospital staff could clear space for them in the emergency room.

Most Americans would look at these conditions in horror. Yet Sen. Sanders and his fellow travelers continue to treat the healthcare systems in Canada and the UK as paragons to which America should aspire.

Sen. Sanders's "Medicare for All" proposal would effectively ban private insurance and force all Americans into a single, government-funded healthcare plan. According to Sen. Sanders, this new insurance scheme would cover everything from regular check-ups to prescription drugs and specialty care, no referral needed -- all at no charge to patients.

Americans shouldn't fall for these rosy promises. As Canadians know all too well, when the government foots the bill for healthcare, patients are the ones who pay the biggest price.

[SillieBazzillie]

For every negative socialized article you post, I could find a counter article. The bottom line is that the US is the only industrialized country in the world without socialized health care. Why do you think that is? Do other countries stay with their systems because they suck so bad? US life expectancy is lower than most industrialized countries as well. Some of it is due to lifestyle but routine visits to healthcare providers can positively impact lifestyle.

I personally think the answer lies in the middle. A public option that provides a minimum level of care, routine doctor visits, catastrophic care, etc, with a private option that we could tailor to our own individual needs.

Sillie for POTUS!

[FatBallz]

At a minimum, something should be done about the pharmaceutical industry. Congress seems to be in their pocket so they get away with anything.

Recently, I heard that Insulin cost something like $2500 a year in 2012 and now costs something like $5800 a year. In that same time, commercials for drugs have increased like crazy as well. They seem to have plenty of money to advertise HIV drugs (a relatively uncommon ailment) and drugs for circadian rhythm disturbances for blind people (are you kidding me?) constantly.

Makes me sick.

I agree with people like Bernie Sanders about taking on the industry, but he should be doing now as a Senator if he is serious about it.

[SWDeath]

I've never had surgery.

And yea i'd rather pay for it in tax rather than out of pocket at the time, relying on private insurance companies. No thanks. They are scumbags for the most part who only care about profit.

Guess what?

U.S. health system costs four times more to run than Canada’s single-payer system
https://www.latimes.com/science/stor...e-payer-system

I pay for it in tax and still bring home a good income. It's paradise compared to what I see in the states. I couldn't imagine my fellow countrymen dying, or going bankrupt or losing their homes because of medical debt.

We have about 8x your population............ LMAO.

You fuking played yourself socialist.

[SillieBazzillie]

We have about 8x your population............ LMAO.

You fuking played yourself socialist.

I got some bad newz boyo...

[SWDeath]

I got some bad newz boyo...

Apparently not.

[Polaris]

At a minimum, something should be done about the pharmaceutical industry. Congress seems to be in their pocket so they get away with anything.

Recently, I heard that Insulin cost something like $2500 a year in 2012 and now costs something like $5800 a year. In that same time, commercials for drugs have increased like crazy as well. They seem to have plenty of money to advertise HIV drugs (a relatively uncommon ailment) and drugs for circadian rhythm disturbances for blind people (are you kidding me?) constantly.

Makes me sick.

I agree with people like Bernie Sanders about taking on the industry, but he should be doing now as a Senator if he is serious about it.

This is something I definitely agree with.

The biggest reason I'm not for universal healthcare is you have to many *******s that have to ruin it for everyone else. If people would utilize it sensibly (not constantly running to the doctor for every little thing), our country wasn't full of obese fatasses (like this guy at my job who is morbidly obese, diabetic, has neuropathy, and...still eats like shyt and doesn't lost any weight), etc. Then I could possibly get behind the idea, but that is a complete fantasy.

[gixxer0.6g]

If there is one thing I know for sure it's that liberals suck at math. Proved further by their $150k in student loan debt for their psychology degree.

Just lol at believing liberal studies.

[SillieBazzillie]

If there is one thing I know for sure it's that liberals suck at math. Proved further by their $150k in student loan debt for their psychology degree.

Just lol at believing liberal studies.

You mean the group of people who have created every scientific and health advancement in the last 50 years? That group sucks at math?

Haha

[Polaris]

You mean the group of people who have created every scientific and health advancement in the last 50 years? That group sucks at math?

Haha

I'm sure you know the political ideology of every single one of those people in the last 50 years.

[badreligion]

At a minimum, something should be done about the pharmaceutical industry. Congress seems to be in their pocket so they get away with anything.

Recently, I heard that Insulin cost something like $2500 a year in 2012 and now costs something like $5800 a year. In that same time, commercials for drugs have increased like crazy as well. They seem to have plenty of money to advertise HIV drugs (a relatively uncommon ailment) and drugs for circadian rhythm disturbances for blind people (are you kidding me?) constantly.

Makes me sick.

I agree with people like Bernie Sanders about taking on the industry, but he should be doing now as a Senator if he is serious about it.

I agree about the pharmaceutical industry. People shouldn't have to pay $60 dollars for a medication that they need and have to sacrifice something else to pay for it especially when it doesn't need to be $60. Bernie Sanders though is not the person to make any sort of change to healthcare considering that

A. He has no experience in that field
B. His only idea is "free" everything.

This is something I definitely agree with.

The biggest reason I'm not for universal healthcare is you have to many *******s that have to ruin it for everyone else. If people would utilize it sensibly (not constantly running to the doctor for every little thing), our country wasn't full of obese fatasses (like this guy at my job who is morbidly obese, diabetic, has neuropathy, and...still eats like shyt and doesn't lost any weight), etc. Then I could possibly get behind the idea, but that is a complete fantasy.

I agree with you on this. People who run to the ER because of every little ache or pain are a serious drain on it as well as people who take no responsibility for their own health. Honestly, if they want to implement Medicare/Medicade for all then in order to qualify you have to meet certain requirements.

[gixxer0.6g]

You mean the group of people who have created every scientific and health advancement in the last 50 years? That group sucks at math?

Haha

Is this same group of "experts" that said Obamacare would reduce premiums, deductibles, medication costs, and I could keep my doctors?

[NYPat]

Why do we need Medicare for All when we have Go Fund Me for those without insurance?

[ohiostate124]

So how long are the wait times gonna be?

[SillieBazzillie]

Is this same group of "experts" that said Obamacare would reduce premiums, deductibles, medication costs, and I could keep my doctors?

You didn’t get to keep your doctor?

Me and 90% of the country did.

[ParsleyTea]

I have to admit, I'm skeptical. Just reading the title the first thing that comes to mind was the promise of Obamacare to lower prices. that didn't turn out so well for many.

More American's had health insurance too after Obamacare. Yet with more access to medical care afterwards the life expectancy of Americans did not increase. instead Americans life expectancy decreased.

A little on this can be read here ~

"CDC Data Show U.S. Life Expectancy Continues to Decline"

https://www.aafp.org/news/health-of-...xpectdrop.html

I suspect having more access to medical care will continue to not result in longer lives for Americans.

As for lowering costs, that would be nice. I believe there to be much better ways to make that happen though. A more likely scenario I see with Medicare for all, or a government take over of the health care industry, is medical workers uniting and voting into power politicians that do their bidding.

[SillieBazzillie]

I'm sure you know the political ideology of every single one of those people in the last 50 years.

Damn you got me bro. No I don’t.

Aware me where these conservative bastions I’d higher education, science, or technology are.

I’ll hang up and listen.

[Ikeman83]

So you have government insurance? You have what others want.

Reading comprehension, not even once...

[soaponarope1]

lol, no it's not. Commercial insurers are the absolute worst. Deny everything as a first step. Medicare is by FAR the most provider friendly insurance.

Interesting. I've had 0 problems with any private insurer. In fact they've been great. Tore my MCL 3 years ago, walked into the orthopedic center 1 mile from my office at 9:30 am, got seen, an MRI, a temporary brace, crutches, physical therapy appointments booked and was back to work in time to go to taco Tuesday lunch. Total out of pocket? $40. My insurance premium was $90 a month.

Had a kid last September. Got a huge, hotel like suite, multiple specialized nurses constantly checking on us, great facilities etc... Total not covered by my high deductible insurance plan? $3,500, which I paid out of my tax free HSA. My insurance premium now for a family is $19 a month.

I've had tricare before when I was transitioning out of the army. Was 'free', but an absolute fukkin nightmare. In fact I'm eligible for it now but would rather pay out of pocket.

Anybody who wants good health insurance just needs to get a job. In fact, my local Amazon warehouse is hiring, all you have to do is apply and pick a start date, $15/hr with benefits. No interview, no qualifications. If you don't have insurance it's your own choice.

[NYPat]

So how long are the wait times gonna be?

Exactly what they are right now. Actually less, because they won't need to get your insurance information.

[anonymous]

For every negative socialized article you post, I could find a counter article. The bottom line is that the US is the only industrialized country in the world without socialized health care. Why do you think that is? Do other countries stay with their systems because they suck so bad? US life expectancy is lower than most industrialized countries as well. Some of it is due to lifestyle but routine visits to healthcare providers can positively impact lifestyle.

I personally think the answer lies in the middle. A public option that provides a minimum level of care, routine doctor visits, catastrophic care, etc, with a private option that we could tailor to our own individual needs.

Sillie for POTUS!

Yes, let's pay $10 a gallon for gas and a federal 25% sales tax and increase our income tax burden to cover the "free" for illegals and leeches - and also have to still pay for our own private plans.

[Judgment]

So you have government insurance? You have what others want.

Yes I do. But just so everyone's clear: I worked and planned for it.

[ImBunky]

Interesting. I've had 0 problems with any private insurer. In fact they've been great. Tore my MCL 3 years ago, walked into the orthopedic center 1 mile from my office at 9:30 am, got seen, an MRI, a temporary brace, crutches, physical therapy appointments booked and was back to work in time to go to taco Tuesday lunch. Total out of pocket? $40. My insurance premium was $90 a month.

Had a kid last September. Got a huge, hotel like suite, multiple specialized nurses constantly checking on us, great facilities etc... Total not covered by my high deductible insurance plan? $3,500, which I paid out of my tax free HSA. My insurance premium now for a family is $19 a month.

I've had tricare before when I was transitioning out of the army. Was 'free', but an absolute fukkin nightmare. In fact I'm eligible for it now but would rather pay out of pocket.

Anybody who wants good health insurance just needs to get a job. In fact, my local Amazon warehouse is hiring, all you have to do is apply and pick a start date, $15/hr with benefits. No interview, no qualifications. If you don't have insurance it's your own choice.

Sillie just makes sht up, best to ignore.

[HoganIsGOAT]

The reality is that most people use very little healthcare, but some people use a ****load of healthcare.

Most everybody gets old - even healthy adults - and guess what happens then my man...

[anonymous]

Most everybody gets old - even healthy adults - and guess what happens then my man...

Old people get Medicare, which isn't great but will be completely fukked if its limited resources are spread around to cover every welfare parasite and illegal.

Instead of this Bernie bullchit we should be putting more money into medicare (and firing 1000s of useless middle manager government "workers" who suck up its resources) to help our genuinely needy, the old and the disabled and vulnerable kids.

[NitrogenWidget]

For every negative socialized article you post, I could find a counter article. The bottom line is that the US is the only industrialized country in the world without socialized health care. Why do you think that is? Do other countries stay with their systems because they suck so bad? US life expectancy is lower than most industrialized countries as well. Some of it is due to lifestyle but routine visits to healthcare providers can positively impact lifestyle.

I personally think the answer lies in the middle. A public option that provides a minimum level of care, routine doctor visits, catastrophic care, etc, with a private option that we could tailor to our own individual needs.

Sillie for POTUS!

And the U.S. is the one country in the world everyone really wants to come to.
Why do you think that is?

thanks for proving our anti socialist healthcare point for us.

[SillieBazzillie]

Yes I do. But just so everyone's clear: I worked and planned for it.

Explain please.

[NitrogenWidget]

Is this same group of "experts" that said Obamacare would reduce premiums, deductibles, medication costs, and I could keep my doctors?

hey man, those are just facts and those have no place when you are trying to convince the country orangemanbad and socialist bernie good.

[HoganIsGOAT]

Old people get Medicare...

Wrong. Generally people 65 and over get Medicare. That isn't the age you magically get old and your body falls apart.

[Stizzel]

Yep. Throughout my life i've had to go to the hospital for a handful of times. Broken bones and pneumonia. Treated instantly for each. There was one time I went to the hospital and it wasn't an emergency (but was in the middle of the night), so I went through triage and ended up waiting a couple of hours. Going to the doctor walk-in clinic with no appointment is usually anywhere from a few min wait to 30 min. No out of pocket cost.

Thats interesting because using non-communist healthcare throughout my life i've had to go to the hospital for a handful of times. Broken bones and pneumonia. Treated instantly for each. There was one time I went to the hospital and it wasn't an emergency (but was in the middle of the night), so I went through triage and ended up waiting a couple of hours. Going to the doctor walk-in clinic with no appointment is usually anywhere from a few min wait to 30 min. No out of pocket cost. This was in west Philadelphia where I was born and raised. On the playground was where I spent most of my days. Chillin' out maxin' relaxin' all cool. And all shooting some b-ball outside of the school when a couple of guys who were up to no good started making trouble in my neighborhood. I got in one little fight and my mom got scared. She said, "You're movin' with your auntie and uncle in Bel-Air"