That's pretty interesting, especially when you consider it seems like the subjects kept carbohydrate and fat intake the same, and simply added a bunch of protein... so they actually added protein enough to put them in a surplus and yet it didn't (according to a Bod Pod) create significant fat accumulation...
Granted it's not a perfect model (measurement accuracy, etc), but you'd expect after 8 weeks for their to be SOME increase in fat mass from 800 additional calories.
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02-16-2020, 09:39 AM #31
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"When I die, I hope it's early in the morning so I don't have to go to work that day for no reason"
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02-16-2020, 09:43 AM #32
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Yea it was interesting and i think it was discussed in length somewhere on the forum.
Full study link here
https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/arti...970-016-0114-2NASM CPT
IG: jeff.galanzzi
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RIP my friend D4K
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02-16-2020, 12:52 PM #33
Looks like these are two different studies. The first one (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4022420/) is Antonio's 2014 original, and this one is a 2016 follow-up that used crossover design instead. Apparently he also did one in 2015. I love some of the references he uses, like #12 (candy vs. peanuts) in the first study. I find his Discussion sections to be speculative but highly insightful.
I searched the forums for "PMC4022420" to find the old threads about it. Very interesting to see the historical context of how this place has changed over time. I had no idea Alan Aragon was a regular and got banned...what's up with that?
Anyways, thanks for bringing this study up. I've maxxed out my reps for the day but I'll get you tomorrow.
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02-16-2020, 12:58 PM #34
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02-16-2020, 01:08 PM #35
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02-16-2020, 01:18 PM #36
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02-16-2020, 01:38 PM #37
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02-16-2020, 04:07 PM #38
@Boo yes the studies by Antonio showed that adding a lot of protein didn't lead to fat gain. But all the dietary data was self reported. They were told to maintain their normal diet but did they really? Going that high in protein is very satiating, it's likely that they ate less carbs and fat.
In controlled studies like the Bray overfeeding study it was shown that high protein intake did lead to fat gain.
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02-16-2020, 04:24 PM #39
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Was not familiar with the Bray study. Will check it. Thanks.
Personally I find it hard myself to gain fat when I have substituted protein in 2 outta my 4 meals. Possibly more satiety.
Same amount of carbs would bloat me and make me sleepy but we talked about our reactions to CHO I believe before.NASM CPT
IG: jeff.galanzzi
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RIP my friend D4K
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02-16-2020, 04:26 PM #40
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02-16-2020, 04:44 PM #41
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02-16-2020, 04:46 PM #42
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02-16-2020, 05:22 PM #43
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02-16-2020, 05:55 PM #44
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02-16-2020, 05:56 PM #45
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02-16-2020, 06:58 PM #46
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02-16-2020, 11:52 PM #47
He took a back step due to reason with the formatting of the forum I believe no idea the details. I followed his journal and he made an announcement there.
Some great posters have been and gone even since I joined IronWill was one the members I joined up for.
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1571310611
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02-18-2020, 01:17 PM #48
Umm what?
OK Im going to brake this down with easy numbers so you understand. Your BMR is say 2000, and you weigh 200lbs.
So, 140G of protein per day. That is 560 calories. 2000 - 560 = 1440 calories. If your fat intake is 90% of 1440, that number is 1296 calories, or 144 Grams of fat.
I suggest you only intake saturated fat at a rate of 10% of that 144. So 14 Grams.
And dont forget, to synthesis a gram of protein, it takes 1/3 of a calorie. So if you want to take 144/3 = X. And add X to your fat total.
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02-18-2020, 01:25 PM #49
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02-18-2020, 02:03 PM #50
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02-18-2020, 02:55 PM #51
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02-18-2020, 03:00 PM #52
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Are you kidding me?
So you're basically saying that nobody except people playing an endurance sport should out of ketosis?
This makes ZERO sense... what possible reason could you have for this BS?
I could use this same logic and say I see no reason why anyone would have over about 20 grams of total fat, because really all you need is a baseline level of omega-3 and omega-6, and the rest of the fatty acid can just be synthesized in your own body (because they're non-essential).
Would that make any sense ? Of course not...
Carbohydrate sources are rich in vitamins, minerals, phytonutrients, they taste great, they make cooking and eating more interesting, diverse, they're affordable in many cases...
Not to mention they fuel explosive activities like weight lifting, they're protein-sparing, they refuel muscle glycogen, they can help you sleep....
Frankly, I eat as many carbs as I can... easily over 400g a dayLast edited by AdamWW; 02-18-2020 at 03:12 PM.
"When I die, I hope it's early in the morning so I don't have to go to work that day for no reason"
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02-18-2020, 03:16 PM #53
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02-18-2020, 03:20 PM #54
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Same here.
I probably get between 140g and 175g of protein on an average day, somewhere between 60 and 90g of fat, and the rest from carbs... which is anywhere from (i estimate) 350g to 500g depending on activity.
When I have too much fat or too much protein, it kills my hunger, which is already a problem for me sometimes. Eating bananas and oats and sweet potatoes is far easier for me than tons of avocado and full fat dairy... they fill me too much."When I die, I hope it's early in the morning so I don't have to go to work that day for no reason"
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02-18-2020, 03:59 PM #55
So if I'm sitting around most of the day I'm in oxidative glycolosis and most of my energy will come from fats. But me personally, Im working on pound for pound strength so Im just trying not to gain weight. I like too eat, but I dont want to be eating sugar or empty carbs all day if I want what is cheap and fast. Simple solution is just go heavy on Protein, Fat, Fiber, and Micros. I will get some carbs through the day, but its never a priority.
I mean Im hitting reps of 95s easy on dumbbell shoulder press at 160lbs, if I eat beans all day my gains are gunna shoot through the roof?
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02-18-2020, 04:02 PM #56
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02-18-2020, 04:15 PM #57
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I have no idea what you're talking about, at all...
Saying 'most of my energy comes from fats' is silly... whatever substrate you consume (fats, carbs, or protein) beyond what you need at a baseline level for repair and general functions is going to be burned.
If you eat carbs, you'll burn carbs. If you eat fat, you'll burn fat. and so on, and so on...
There is zero need for fat intake beyond what you actually need for essential fatty acid needs and hormonal balance.. and that can be obtained easily by getting around .4g/lb. Anything beyond that is just added calories.
There's nothing WRONG with getting more fat, but to say it's in any way 'better' to have more fats instead of more carbs, well, that's 100% false.
Once your body has completed all it's required functions with the protein, fats, carbs it needs, the excess calories are simply either (1) used as energy to fuel activity or (2) stored as bodyfat.
So, if someone need say 60g of fat to get enough EFA's and enough buffer for repair and hormonal balance, and they get enough protein for repair as well as general function, the remaining calories coming from fat instead of carbs makes little to no difference... they become discretionary calories... they're just used as energy.
People have this weird thing about conflating 'you burn fat when you eat fat' with burning more 'BODYfat'... that's not what happens. It means you burn more DIETARY fat because you have to... it's ends up being the primary source of non-essential energy intake and thus that is where the source of energy comes from."When I die, I hope it's early in the morning so I don't have to go to work that day for no reason"
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02-18-2020, 04:15 PM #58
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02-18-2020, 04:16 PM #59
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You need to read a book...
https://www.jtsstrength.com/carbs-the-training-fuel/"When I die, I hope it's early in the morning so I don't have to go to work that day for no reason"
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02-18-2020, 04:28 PM #60
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