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  1. #1
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    Upper and Lower folks come in please

    Hi there

    Lately I've been going to the gym 6 days a week. I do splits like chest and triceps, back and biceps, or legs and shoulders. I train all of those muscles twice a week. But I've been kind sick of working out 6 days a week. I found this upper-lower body routine and I asked my coach about it, he said he doesn't know about these splits (upper-lower, or push, pull, legs) He only seems to follow this split (big muscle and small muscle on the same day). How can I create a program that suits me If I want to start an upper-lower body routine?
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  2. #2
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    your coach doesn't know about a basic upper lower? he knows practically nothing about training and you are sinking money into a scamming scumbag then.
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  3. #3
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    Originally Posted by Annihilator17 View Post
    I asked my coach about it, he said he doesn't know about these splits (upper-lower, or push, pull, legs)
    What kind of coach is this, a financial coach? Cause he is no athletic type of coach...anywhere.....

    Try this on for size:

    Originally Posted by davisj3537 View Post
    The Intermediate Upper/Lower

    Upper A
    Bench 3x5
    Incline Bench 3x8
    Lat Pulldowns 3x8 (any grip)
    Bent Over Rows 3x8
    Curls 3x10/Reverse Flies 3x12 Superset

    Lower A
    Squats 3x5
    Weighted Back Extensions 3x8
    Leg Press 3x10
    Leg Curls 3x10
    Ab work 3x15/Calf raises 3x12 Superset

    Upper B
    OHP 3x5
    Flies 3x10
    Pullups 3x8
    Pendlay Rows 3x8
    Face Pulls 3x12/Tricep pressdowns 3x10 Superset

    Lower B
    Front Squat 3x5
    Romanian Deadlift 3x8
    Leg Extensions 3x10
    Leg Curls 3x10
    Ab work 3x15/Calf Raises 3x12 Superset

    You will be working out 2 consecutive days followed by a rest day and then 2 more consecutive days. Ex: Mon-Upper A, Tues-Lower A, Wed-Rest, Thur-Upper B, Fri-Lower B, Sat-Rest, Sun-Rest, Mon-Upper A…etc.

    You’ll add 5 lbs to all of your upper body lifts* and 10lbs to all of your lower body lifts every 2 weeks. After 1 week increase the reps by 1 on every set. Ex: Instead of doing bench 3x5 you'll do 3x6. At the end of that week weight increases and the reps will drop back down to 3x5.

    *The weight increases are halved between DB exercises. Use your best judgment on weight increases for isolation exercises. The progression may be too fast.


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  4. #4
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    I've been doing upper/lower for the last year and a half. Don't see any need to switch out of it.

    Your coach must have extremely limited training knowledge and doesn't actually enjoy what he does otherwise he'd be interested to learn more. Upper Lowe is really common and effective split. Like I find it incredibly ignorant for an athletic coach to be unfamiliar with it.
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  5. #5
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    Originally Posted by Millz12323 View Post
    I've been doing upper/lower for the last year and a half. Don't see any need to switch out of it.

    Your coach must have extremely limited training knowledge and doesn't actually enjoy what he does otherwise he'd be interested to learn more. Upper Lowe is really common and effective split. Like I find it incredibly ignorant for an athletic coach to be unfamiliar with it.
    His coach is probably a personal trainer with a certificate he got online...
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  6. #6
    Registered User Annihilator17's Avatar
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    I knew you'd start bashing this guy. Maybe he said that to throw me off. He does have a nice physique and he gives me a new set of exercises every 45 days or so. I'm seeing progress
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  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by Annihilator17 View Post
    I knew you'd start bashing this guy. Maybe he said that to throw me off. He does have a nice physique and he gives me a new set of exercises every 45 days or so. I'm seeing progress
    A lot of guys with nice nice physiques aren't natural... Just saying. There's lots of short cuts to be had in this game.
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    3 mile run: 21:59 @ 170 bw.
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  8. #8
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    your coach doesn't know about a basic upper lower? he knows practically nothing about training and you are sinking money into a scamming scumbag then.
    Originally Posted by Squid24 View Post
    What kind of coach is this, a financial coach? Cause he is no athletic type of coach...anywhere.....

    Try this on for size:
    Originally Posted by Millz12323 View Post
    I've been doing upper/lower for the last year and a half. Don't see any need to switch out of it.

    Your coach must have extremely limited training knowledge and doesn't actually enjoy what he does otherwise he'd be interested to learn more. Upper Lowe is really common and effective split. Like I find it incredibly ignorant for an athletic coach to be unfamiliar with it.
    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    His coach is probably a personal trainer with a certificate he got online...

    I knew you'd start bashing this guy. Maybe he said that to throw me off. He does have a nice physique and he gives me a new set of exercises every 45 days or so. I'm seeing progress. He looks at my body, tells me where my weak points are and designs a program that will target the muscles that need work. Isn't that better than working out on my own and not seeing results?
    Last edited by Annihilator17; 02-12-2020 at 02:48 PM.
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  9. #9
    Registered User Annihilator17's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    your coach doesn't know about a basic upper lower? he knows practically nothing about training and you are sinking money into a scamming scumbag then.
    I'm not giving him any money. He's a trainer in my gym, he trains everybody
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  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by Annihilator17 View Post
    I'm not giving him any money. He's a trainer in my gym, he trains everybody
    So he isn’t a coach then, just a personal trainer. I don’t mean “just” a personal trainer to be a bad thing, but there is a big difference between the two. As far as working out with him vs working out alone, there is simply no way he can just look at you and tell where you’re weakest at. ONLY YOU can determine where you are weak, if only you are honest with yourself.

    It is great your gym has that resource available, mine wants to charge me for a simple question on stance widths (ridiculous, I know) as “training”, but the trainer like all of us here has a lot to learn. He can start by learning upper/lower splits. Until then, I would take the advice of the guys commenting here, refer to the trainer if you have a question about form, need a spot or how to perform an exercise and leave it at that
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    The best upper/lower split out there IMO is 5/3/1, but I feel that everything you want to accomplish can be done with a simple PPL, without feeling burnt out by the gym.

    Chest/shoulders/triceps
    Back/biceps
    Legs/abs
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  12. #12
    Registered User Annihilator17's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    So he isn’t a coach then, just a personal trainer. I don’t mean “just” a personal trainer to be a bad thing, but there is a big difference between the two. As far as working out with him vs working out alone, there is simply no way he can just look at you and tell where you’re weakest at. ONLY YOU can determine where you are weak, if only you are honest with yourself.

    It is great your gym has that resource available, mine wants to charge me for a simple question on stance widths (ridiculous, I know) as “training”, but the trainer like all of us here has a lot to learn. He can start by learning upper/lower splits. Until then, I would take the advice of the guys commenting here, refer to the trainer if you have a question about form, need a spot or how to perform an exercise and leave it at that
    I would love to work out alone, but it's still better to consult a trainer no matter how experienced you are. I had this don't waste time and work with a trainer mindset because I didn't wanna randomly pick out exercises that probably wouldn't give me good results. Trainers know how to choose the appropriate exercises for you, they can help you avoid injuries, they know which bar you should use, they can give you the right volume, reps for each exercise, etc.
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  13. #13
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    I'm not here to argue, I'm here to ask and learn
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    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    The best upper/lower split out there IMO is 5/3/1, but I feel that everything you want to accomplish can be done with a simple PPL, without feeling burnt out by the gym.

    Chest/shoulders/triceps
    Back/bicepsb
    Legs/abs

    531 is full body.

    anyway OP, some good resources for programming that contain upper lowers.
    Fierce 5 comprehensive thread in this forum
    Johnnie candito website, the linear program for yourself right now.
    Erik Helms Muscle and Strength Pyramids Ebook
    Westside Conjugate, this one requires a bit more digging and reading around. Louie Simmons and Dave Tate are the go to for picking it up.
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    531 is full body.

    anyway OP, some good resources for programming that contain upper lowers.
    Fierce 5 comprehensive thread in this forum
    Johnnie candito website, the linear program for yourself right now.
    Erik Helms Muscle and Strength Pyramids Ebook
    Westside Conjugate, this one requires a bit more digging and reading around. Louie Simmons and Dave Tate are the go to for picking it up.
    These are all good OP I will throw in a few I have done as well:-

    https://jcdfitness.com/2009/01/lyle-...lking-routine/ - Lyle Mcdonalds GBR

    https://rippedbody.com/novice-bodybuilding-program/ - 3dmj upper lower

    https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/upper-lower-split/ - aworkoutroutine

    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=172565211 - Viking Bare Bones (not if cutting its damn hard I tried)
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    But, isn't those splits better than upper and lower split? Think about. If you train big muscle with a small muscle, you can give each muscle 4 to 5 exercises rather than just one or two. With the upper and lower split you get to train your bicep or triceps with two or even just one exercise.
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    Originally Posted by Annihilator17 View Post
    But, isn't those splits better than upper and lower split? Think about. If you train big muscle with a small muscle, you can give each muscle 4 to 5 exercises rather than just one or two. With the upper and lower split you get to train your bicep or triceps with two or even just one exercise.
    what makes you think doing more exercises is better?

    And why did you ask about upper/lowers if you think it's a worse split (ps it's not, splitting or not is really not important to programming)
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    what makes you think doing more exercises is better?

    And why did you ask about upper/lowers if you think it's a worse split (ps it's not, splitting or not is really not important to programming)
    Because that way you can hit the muscle from more than one angle. Why do you think so many exercises exist if one exercise is enough?
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  19. #19
    No help for this one.... Squid24's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Annihilator17 View Post
    But, isn't those splits better than upper and lower split? Think about. If you train big muscle with a small muscle, you can give each muscle 4 to 5 exercises rather than just one or two. With the upper and lower split you get to train your bicep or triceps with two or even just one exercise.
    If you do 2 chest exercises, and an OHP, that = 3 tricep exercises, so how many more do you need? 1, maybe 2.

    You do Pull-ups, Chin-ups, bent over rows, = 3 bicep exercises, so how many more do you need? 1 maybe 2. 4-5 total Tricep and Bicep exercises...BOOM

    Oh, and that's twice a week, so 8-10 exercises a week...
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    Originally Posted by Annihilator17 View Post
    Because that way you can hit the muscle from more than one angle. Why do you think so many exercises exist if one exercise is enough?
    Many reasons, training A.D.D and keeping clients happy by inventing random **** is a huge one

    I'm actually a big fan of exercise variation, but that doesn't mean you need 6 exercises for one bodypart in one day.
    Training is measured in years not days, you don't have to throw the whole toolbox at one cycle
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    That's all very well, thanks, but how do I create a new program for myself every now and then? Let's face it, I'm not gonna stick to the same program you suggested forever..I need to know how to create my own comprehensive workout program.
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    Originally Posted by Annihilator17 View Post
    That's all very well, thanks, but how do I create a new program for myself every now and then? Let's face it, I'm not gonna stick to the same program you suggested forever..I need to know how to create my own comprehensive workout program.
    read books on training principles, watch videos from good coaches, experiment, **** **** up, learn.

    Erik Helms Muscle And Strength Pyramid on training is your first go to
    Stronger by Science articles too
    then the copious amount of published research on training
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    Originally Posted by Annihilator17 View Post
    That's all very well, thanks, but how do I create a new program for myself every now and then? Let's face it, I'm not gonna stick to the same program you suggested forever..I need to know how to create my own comprehensive workout program.
    They literally just listed about 10 UL programs above. Maybe try one or more out for an extended period of time and learn how a proper routine works instead of doing as many exercises as you can for 6 days/week?

    You sound like you have no experience and shouldn't be designing your own program at all, and aren't even listening to the same ppl who you asked for advice.
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    They literally just listed about 10 UL programs above. Maybe try one or more out for an extended period of time and learn how a proper routine works instead of doing as many exercises as you can for 6 days/week?

    You sound like you have no experience and shouldn't be designing your own program at all, and aren't even listening to the same ppl who you asked for advice.
    Congratulations, Sherlock.
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    Originally Posted by Annihilator17 View Post
    Congratulations, Sherlock.
    Thanks, most sensible people would start out on a proven, structured program to gain some knowledge instead of trying to create their own.

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    The "split" is only a fraction of a training program. You can run a bro split and still program it fairly balanced its just harder, likewise you can program an upper/lower terribly and ruin it. The fact your trainer doesn't even acknowledge 2 of the most common splits is far more concerning. That kind of thinking, my way is the only way, is ridiculous in this industry.

    There's a handful of excellent upper/lowers listed above. Most people never make it past the point of an "intermediate" anyways and can probably get to a happy place and stay there for ever with any of them. 5/3/1also has enough variations to be run until death even if you switch it every time you get bored.

    I wouldn't bother making your own, there's just too many good ones out there to bother. Try a couple and stick with the one you like and respond best to.
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    Originally Posted by Ghawk21 View Post
    The "split" is only a fraction of a training program. You can run a bro split and still program it fairly balanced its just harder, likewise you can program an upper/lower terribly and ruin it. The fact your trainer doesn't even acknowledge 2 of the most common splits is far more concerning. That kind of thinking, my way is the only way, is ridiculous in this industry.

    There's a handful of excellent upper/lowers listed above. Most people never make it past the point of an "intermediate" anyways and can probably get to a happy place and stay there for ever with any of them. 5/3/1also has enough variations to be run until death even if you switch it every time you get bored.

    I wouldn't bother making your own, there's just too many good ones out there to bother. Try a couple and stick with the one you like and respond best to.
    I agree. Depends on your attitude. You'll see results even if you follow a poor program with a good attitude.
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    Originally Posted by Annihilator17 View Post
    I agree. Depends on your attitude. You'll see results even if you follow a poor program with a good attitude.
    Up to a certain point only. There's a lot of guys who come to the gym for years and never make it out if like late novice early intermediate Stage... they work hard in the gym but with no direction and subsequently are just really average in term of strength and muscularity.

    Your training needs to be focused and it's hard to focus on any one specific thing when you're doing like 100 different exercises per week and trying to gauge progress.
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    So everyone here chooses their own exercises and do them?
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    Originally Posted by Annihilator17 View Post
    So everyone here chooses their own exercises and do them?
    how do you mean? choosing exercises isn't all of programming, or even a particularly important bit
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