Trying to understand the basic behind most workout programs.
So basically when you train you apply a stimulus, that creates an adaptation that makes you able to apply progressive overload? Right now im doing Eric Helms intermediate program for bodybuilding, the progression system goes like this:
Week 1: 100x6
Week 2: 105x5
Week 3: 110x4
Week 4: 105x6 (increase)
So every 4th week volume and progressive overload occurs.
But if we compare the weeks the total volume goes down before it increases again, does this matter to much? Its it more about total hard set each week?
Lets say 100x6 vs 105x5, the 100x6 has more volume, but would you say that 105x5 is harder? Making the total stimulus and hard set harder then 100x6? Or is it more about the total monthly progression?
|
-
02-11-2020, 08:43 AM #1
Stimulus, adaptations and progressive overload?
-
02-11-2020, 09:01 AM #2
- Join Date: Jan 2007
- Location: Suffolk, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
- Posts: 54,512
- Rep Power: 1338185
You are progressively overloading every workout, not every 4 workouts.
Using a 1RM calculator:
100 x 6 = 116
105 x 5 = 118
110 x 4 = 120
105 x 6 = 122
It looks like this is exactly how Eric designed it - 2kg progression in calculated 1RM each time.
Also, volume does not go down because volume is not as simple as weight x reps. Volume remains the same if you consider "hard sets" to be the measure of volume.
-
02-11-2020, 01:22 PM #3
So progressive overload dosent mean i have to do an all time pr each workout? Its just that i do more then last time? lets say my 8RM is 150kg, and during my cycle im doing work under 8RM max, its gonna take a few weeks before i start nearing a new PR, does progressive overload/progression still happen working at lower weights?
-
02-11-2020, 02:28 PM #4
-
-
02-11-2020, 09:36 PM #5
Progressive overload just means gradually doing a bit more. It doesn't necessarily mean heavier than ever before.
If you wanted to stimulate adaptions for endurance (not bodybuilding), you could keep the load the same and gradually increase the reps. That would also be a form of progressive overload (although a different type of stimulus from encouraging hypertrophy).
Helms progression scheme is really nice way to run it as an early intermediate. If you've been stalled for a while doing a simple linear progression, a small deload and switching to this scheme should restart progress
-
02-12-2020, 12:03 AM #6
- Join Date: Jan 2007
- Location: Suffolk, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
- Posts: 54,512
- Rep Power: 1338185
You need to be close to the maximum that you can do at that moment in time but not necessarily right on it.
Also, remember that all time PRs can be transient. If you achieve one one day - the following week you might only be capable of 95% of what you did previously.
It's like surfing a wave. If you are right on the peak, you might fall off the back. If you are too far away from the peak, you are in flat water. And of course the wave moves.
-
02-12-2020, 05:02 PM #7
-
02-13-2020, 12:00 AM #8
-
-
02-13-2020, 12:17 AM #9
- Join Date: Jun 2016
- Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
- Age: 31
- Posts: 11,166
- Rep Power: 52549
Emergening strategies from RTS is great for knowing when to change stimulus/add volume.
Basically you find out when you peak and regress (2 weeks without progress counts as regression.) take this number of weeks.. 4 to 6 is common.
Let's call it 6.
You run a block focused on whatever you choose, volume, power, strength, certain lifts, multiple for that 6 weeks.
After 6 you pivot for a third of the training block, so 2 weeks.
Pivot with different stimulus (more vs less reps/ volume) maybe low intensity if you'd been doing loads of heavy low rep. Maybe just quite different lifts (sumo instead of conventional, leg press instead of squat).
After the pivot you block review the first 6 weeks, see which lifts drove the most progress, decide what to keep and what to change and run another 6 weeks.5 day full body crew
FMH Crew, Sandbagging Mike Tuscherer Wannabee
-
02-13-2020, 12:37 AM #10
-
02-13-2020, 12:56 AM #11
-
02-13-2020, 05:52 AM #12
Its far more complicated than progressive overload. When you work muscle fibers hard, they go through a cycle of subcompensation (weaker than before) and supercompensation (stronger than before). Thats in addition to muscular growth. For meximum gain, you want to lift during supercompensation cycles and rest during subcompensation cycles. Beginners have sort cycles - thats why they can do FBW 3 days a week, while advanced lifters have longer subcompenstation cycles and shorter supercompensatin cycles, which is what leads to peaking strategies.
I dont do justice to the theory - if you get the book Science and Practice of Strength Training, they go into the Russian research with graphs and fairly approachable way and more accurate than I have tried to describe here..
-
-
02-13-2020, 06:47 AM #13
- Join Date: Jun 2016
- Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
- Age: 31
- Posts: 11,166
- Rep Power: 52549
I'm not sure, he doesn't have a huge client base, and RTS is very heavily focused on national and world level powerlifters , but that doesn't mean they don't have recreational lifters as clients, potentially bodybuilders.
I do feel like i've heard mention of a bb'er client but can't be sure I'm remembering correctly.
Him and Joey Flex basically have a monopoly on world record powerlifters though.. though Mike has a whole team to help with that5 day full body crew
FMH Crew, Sandbagging Mike Tuscherer Wannabee
-
02-13-2020, 04:49 PM #14
Thanks guys, got it much clearer now.
One more question, does every workout have to be more overloading then the previous workout to make gains? Lets say you just repeated your last workout, same volume and work load, would this still result in good enough stimulus for adaptations to happen for a few weeks before you apply progression?
-
02-13-2020, 07:04 PM #15
-
02-13-2020, 11:25 PM #16
-
-
02-17-2020, 05:00 PM #17
-
02-18-2020, 12:00 AM #18
- Join Date: Jan 2007
- Location: Suffolk, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
- Posts: 54,512
- Rep Power: 1338185
Remember that you aren't dealing with a simple system where your performance is the only thing that changes. Apparent "stalls" can be down to temporary changes in your levels of fatigue and other factors. But in essence yes - look for the trend and don't overreact to one bad day. Just like you would (should) do if trying to lose weight for example.
Bookmarks