Reply
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 62
  1. #31
    Registered User peterm28's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2017
    Age: 34
    Posts: 354
    Rep Power: 141
    peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    peterm28 is offline
    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    Everyone said you'd be wasting your time, doing a ton of work and look the same. Seriously, stop repeatedly misstating that.
    obviously I don't look the same: https://ibb.co/Z12Jdb9 wearing pants in both for you brah. If you lack eyeballs or are otherwise blind maybe someone other than me can describe the change for you, since you don't seem to believe your own eyes so why would you believe me.

    When I say I'm open to advice it means I'm open to advice - feel free to give it.

    Advice I've taken so far:

    - I bought a kitchen scale and started weighing what I eat.
    - I've been trying very very hard to reduce my total calories. I am eating far less than before.
    - I stopped worrying about overtraining (a concern I had in the beginning.)
    - I got in touch with 2 personal trainers. (They didn't return my messages, but I did try.)
    - I significantly increased the amount of protein I am eating daily. I am trying to get 216 grams daily, whereas previously I would have tried to get 150 grams daily.
    - I didn't introduce the vibrating plate machine into my program, because based on the advice I received here it does nothing.
    - For the lifting portion, I started both both pushdowns and overhead tricep extension on the machine (rather than trying to pick on.)
    - I started facing in the correct direction when using the smith machine and squat rack. (lol right).
    - etc etc etc etc.

    So if you want to give advice of course I'll listen to it.

    Not all of the advice the forum gave has been correct.

    Wrong advice or incorrect predictions:

    - I would look like the machinist (very emaciated, like a war prisoner).
    - It basically doesn't matter when I eat with respect to my workouts (workout out in a fasted state or not). Actually this made a huge difference in what I was able to produce and the advice to ignore eating times was (at least for me) very wrong.
    - I can't bench 100 lbs. (wrong prediction).

    If you want to claim "I look the same", I'll try to get someone to assist you with the blindness.

    Thanks for the help and I'll continue to read everything everyone says. That doesn't mean everyone is 100% correct about everything but I'm open to other people's advice and experience.

    I love the body I have and if you have eyeballs you can see that in some senses my program was very successful.

    It didn't get the results I wanted so I'm changing it up a bit. I didn't get injured so who cares. I'm in way better shape than before and this took just 3 months of my time.
    Last edited by peterm28; 01-31-2020 at 09:06 AM.
    Reply With Quote

  2. #32
    Registered User dylanstephens54's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2014
    Age: 28
    Posts: 560
    Rep Power: 2785
    dylanstephens54 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) dylanstephens54 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) dylanstephens54 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) dylanstephens54 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) dylanstephens54 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) dylanstephens54 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) dylanstephens54 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) dylanstephens54 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) dylanstephens54 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) dylanstephens54 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) dylanstephens54 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500)
    dylanstephens54 is offline
    You do look the same though you are just leaning forward and flexing in other leaning back and relaxed

    You are like a insta thot compairing diffrent body positions
    Reply With Quote

  3. #33
    Registered User WakingOp's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2016
    Age: 30
    Posts: 251
    Rep Power: 432
    WakingOp has a spectacular aura about. (+250) WakingOp has a spectacular aura about. (+250) WakingOp has a spectacular aura about. (+250) WakingOp has a spectacular aura about. (+250) WakingOp has a spectacular aura about. (+250) WakingOp has a spectacular aura about. (+250) WakingOp has a spectacular aura about. (+250) WakingOp has a spectacular aura about. (+250) WakingOp has a spectacular aura about. (+250) WakingOp has a spectacular aura about. (+250) WakingOp has a spectacular aura about. (+250)
    WakingOp is offline
    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    An hour every day is less than 3 hours every 2 days brah. When I say vast amounts of cardio I mean it. Much, much more than an hour. My phone died sometimes. You can see my log linked in my write-up for exact times.

    That said, your example (which nobody mentioned before) is actually pretty good evidence that body recomposition through a ton of cardio is possible. I imagine most everyone who went through the 70 days you mention got more muscular (due to pushups/PT) and leaner (lower bodyfat percentage), and more muscular (more lbs of muscle, stronger) despite eating a healthy amount daily.

    Which (if true - I'm just guessing, I didn't see the stats for the people you mention) would show a similar result to my experiment, showing that you can both lose fat doing a lot of cardio while staying strong/muscular and eating a healthy amount. Pretty much exactly what I showed.

    What do you think about my 90-day before/after? Similar to the boot camp example you mentioned? Worse? Better? https://ibb.co/Z12Jdb9

    I like your example a lot, and thanks for introducing it to this conversation.
    Its not nothing.

    I said we ran for an hour 3-4 times a day. Plus many short interval runs. And yeah a lot of pt. Hours of pushups/ pullups etc with as much as 100 pounds of gear. One dude lost 70 pounds I think it was. Everybody comes out looking fairly similar

    So yeah it's definitely possible to do a drastic recomp like this, but in that case it is literally a full time job. More. Empathic you do is intended to wear you out. And it's miserable.
    Reply With Quote

  4. #34
    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2019
    Age: 50
    Posts: 1,923
    Rep Power: 3637
    air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500)
    air2fakie is online now
    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    If you want to claim "I look the same", I'll try to get someone to assist you with the blindness.
    Due to poor eyesight I can't accurately assess your progress so no point looking at your underwear pics. See below.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    you can both lose fat doing a lot of cardio while staying strong/muscular and eating a healthy amount. Pretty much exactly what I showed.
    Odd that this is what you see in your pics and when you're squatting and DLing with no plates and doing smith machine BP for 100 lbs.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    I got in touch with 2 personal trainers. (They didn't return my messages, but I did try.)
    That doesn't surprise me esp if they've seen you "working out" or you described your workout theories in your messages.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    So if you want to give advice of course I'll listen to it.
    Been there, done that. Fully expect you to be able to achieve the same level of progress. Good luck, and please keep it over in your journal so ppl can track your results there.
    Reply With Quote

  5. #35
    Registered User peterm28's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2017
    Age: 34
    Posts: 354
    Rep Power: 141
    peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    peterm28 is offline
    Originally Posted by dylanstephens54 View Post
    You do look the same though you are just leaning forward and flexing in other leaning back and relaxed

    You are like a insta thot compairing diffrent body positions
    Nah you can look at my chin or collarbone or even fingers. It's not night and day but there's a profound difference I notice in my everyday life. People remark on it as well. Finally, fitting easily into pants I couldn't possibly fit into for more than a few moments is quite objective. It's friday nighg here and I am wearing some pleather pants I bought partway through my 90 days as aspiration to get thin enough to wear - and rather than being super tight on me, they're falling off and I have to keep pulling them up. (No belt loops on this one). I can't wear some of my old tshirts anymore (too loose) and some supertight stretchy ones that were clearly small for me before are now just right.

    This was, of course, my goal. But the difference is quite clear.
    Reply With Quote

  6. #36
    Registered User peterm28's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2017
    Age: 34
    Posts: 354
    Rep Power: 141
    peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    peterm28 is offline
    Originally Posted by WakingOp View Post
    I said we ran for an hour 3-4 times a day. Plus many short interval runs. And yeah a lot of pt. Hours of pushups/ pullups etc with as much as 100 pounds of gear. One dude lost 70 pounds I think it was. Everybody comes out looking fairly similar

    So yeah it's definitely possible to do a drastic recomp like this, but in that case it is literally a full time job.
    For sure, the past 90 days have been like a part time job for me. It literally felt like going to work at a part time job, I spent so many hours there.

    Not full time in my case but definitely part time job. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who doesn't have loads of free time and is super bored and up for anything.

    Even then a different program from mine (or the one you describe) might be better use of time.

    This took enormous numbers of hours and was very boring as well.
    Reply With Quote

  7. #37
    Registered User craned70's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2018
    Age: 50
    Posts: 12
    Rep Power: 0
    craned70 is on a distinguished road. (+10)
    craned70 is offline
    Whats the harm in just trying out what literally everyone recommends? Your statement that you're NOT going to follow the advice of the vast majority of knowledgeable posters here is extremely confusing and would lead most to believe you're either delusional, stupid, or just trolling.
    Reply With Quote

  8. #38
    Registered User rsid97's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2017
    Location: Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts: 1,295
    Rep Power: 14638
    rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000)
    rsid97 is offline
    I wasn't going to bother responding to the question you asked, since it's been answered a million times, but I figured I'd point out the blatant lies in this post you made here just in case anyone who hasn't read your other threads is reading this and doesn't realize how misleading this is.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    Wrong advice or incorrect predictions:

    - I would look like the machinist (very emaciated, like a war prisoner).
    - It basically doesn't matter when I eat with respect to my workouts (workout out in a fasted state or not). Actually this made a huge difference in what I was able to produce and the advice to ignore eating times was (at least for me) very wrong.
    - I can't bench 100 lbs. (wrong prediction).
    1) The reason you don't look like the machinist is because you have barely lost any weight. Now don't quote your numbers or anything because they don't matter here. The reason we thought that is because exclusively doing cardio for 3 hours a day while eating 1000 calories and under-dosing your protein would lead to that. But instead you were miscalculating your calories, inconsistent with your training, sleeping some days, have beers and burgers and popcorn on others which ultimately lead you to not losing the weight that would have been expected of someone who was genuinely eating 1000 calories + 3 hours of cardio + close to zero weight training + underdosing protein. In summary, its not our fault that you failed at failing....

    In comparison to your three month 'progress' experiments, here's a summary of mine : Started at about the same time as you at a similar bodyfat percentage if not a little lower (and no, I don't mean what your scale says, I mean your actual percentage). You claimed to eat 1000 calories a day, while I'm at 3900-4000. You lost 2.5kg, while I lost 9.8kg off my bodyweight while getting stronger across all my lifts (and I mean a proper routine, not your smith machine whatever the hell you do). And I've lost 18cm off of my waist, which much better represents the degree of my fat loss since that's the fattiest part of my body which is most resistant to fat loss, incomparison to your chin gains which mean next to nothing.

    2) Not entirely sure where your source for this is, as I've gone through all three of your one month completed posts and found nothing that states to what you just described. Reference needed. I'm guessing someone said that fasted cardio doesn't significantly impact fat loss by itself, and you extrapolated that to eating whatever you want whenever you want. In any case, you're still making a false mis-representation of the forum by claiming that they were wrong because you saw a 'huge difference' when it clearly produced no major difference. Personally, I do fasted cardio once a week as well, but not because its some magical tool, I could easily achieve the same progress without the fasted cardio. I just do it to get it off my chest so that I can't later say that I wish I had done it.

    3) Blatant lies once again. Someone asked to see you benching 100lbs for reps. You posted a video of yourself on a smith machine, taking reps to a depth which could not properly been seen, without any pause at the chest or the top. So, while it wasn't me who issued that challenge, it wasn't a mis-prediction in any sense at all and is very misleading to anyone who is reading this without having read your past threads. And no, you benching 18lbs more than 100 doesn't cancel out anything.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    What do you think I should do now to get to my goal of having a "skinny male model physique" with about 10-12% bodyfat? I mean in terms of food and exercise. I thought I would be there by now but obviously not.
    The same things we always suggested which you always ignored and now flat out stated that you will not do. If we give you 10 different suggestions, those suggestions are coherent and work together. You choosing to cherry pick the few that you like out of them doesn't mean you're going to get where you want. So stop saying you listened to some advice and not others as if you did something right. If I make my suggestion again, I'm just going to be typing out a whole plan and you're going to cherry pick what you want to do, ignore the rest, and then come back in another month and say,'I made no progress, but I'm happy with my progress, look at my chin, I need advice and am open to suggestions".
    Last edited by rsid97; 02-01-2020 at 06:10 AM. Reason: spelling
    Redcon1 Tier Operator - T20RSid

    Some lifting stuff (IG) - @rsid_97

    My Growth Stimulus Training journal - https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175699161
    Reply With Quote

  9. #39
    Registered User Hutrapper's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2019
    Age: 50
    Posts: 1,357
    Rep Power: 9976
    Hutrapper is a name known to all. (+5000) Hutrapper is a name known to all. (+5000) Hutrapper is a name known to all. (+5000) Hutrapper is a name known to all. (+5000) Hutrapper is a name known to all. (+5000) Hutrapper is a name known to all. (+5000) Hutrapper is a name known to all. (+5000) Hutrapper is a name known to all. (+5000) Hutrapper is a name known to all. (+5000) Hutrapper is a name known to all. (+5000) Hutrapper is a name known to all. (+5000)
    Hutrapper is offline
    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    Nah you can look at my chin or collarbone or even fingers.

    I find I notice weight loss in my fingers first also
    Reply With Quote

  10. #40
    Registered User peterm28's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2017
    Age: 34
    Posts: 354
    Rep Power: 141
    peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    peterm28 is offline
    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    The reason we thought that is because exclusively doing cardio for 3 hours a day while eating 1000 calories and under-dosing your protein would lead to that.
    I never said "exclusively" cardio but you're right that I was doing primarily cardio.

    I'm not sure where you got your 1,000 Calories quote from, I am sure I never had a daily consumption target that low. My initial goal was to eat a normal amount but do a lot of cardio.

    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    In comparison to your three month 'progress' experiments, here's a summary of mine : Started at about the same time as you at a similar bodyfat percentage if not a little lower (and no, I don't mean what your scale says, I mean your actual percentage). You claimed to eat 1000 calories a day, while I'm at 3900-4000. You lost 2.5kg, while I lost 9.8kg off my bodyweight while getting stronger across all my lifts (and I mean a proper routine, not your smith machine whatever the hell you do). And I've lost 18cm off of my waist, which much better represents the degree of my fat loss since that's the fattiest part of my body which is most resistant to fat loss, incomparison to your chin gains which mean next to nothing.
    That's awesome man. could you share any progress pictures? Do people treat you any differently? (Women treat me totally differently now.)

    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    You choosing to cherry pick the few that you like out of them doesn't mean you're going to get where you are.
    The part you wrote in this section is fair, all right - you don't have to type out again the advice you gave previously.

    Will you share some pics?
    Reply With Quote

  11. #41
    Registered User peterm28's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2017
    Age: 34
    Posts: 354
    Rep Power: 141
    peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    peterm28 is offline
    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    2) Not entirely sure where your source for this is, as I've gone through all three of your one month completed posts and found nothing that states to what you just described. Reference needed.
    This is where I asked about this https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...7711341&page=1

    As you can see it was early in my second challenge (I think, I didn't check the dates.) This was a super-clear answer:

    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    Benefits for healthy exercising individuals: none besides convenience for some.
    That's pretty clear, it says: "benefits: none besides convenience for some".

    Originally Posted by Nicksosure1 View Post
    It's really just an adherence protocol. No real benefits or negatives concerning the issues you highlighted
    Someone else said "It's just a strategy. As opposed to using will power to adhere to your daily calories", a third person said "You stimulate your appetite less often and find it easier to comply with a calorie restricted diet. That's it. "

    After that the thread got into some kind of technical war but as you can see the basic replies have it covered.

    Since it was so clear, what I did is that during the second challenge I stopped trying to do intermittant fasting.

    This is what happened during my second challenge:

    - I was *unable* to maintain high Calorie output for a long time in the gym on the cardio.

    - I ran out of energy. I got tired.

    - I had to end sessions early.

    - Sometimes I didn't have enough energy to go to the gym.

    That is what happened to me. It's not 100% scientific and could have been due to any number of factors. But in my third challenge I reintroduced intermittent fasting, and all of the above issues disappeared:

    - In my third challenge I never ran out of energy at the gym. Never.

    - I was never too tired/didn't have enough energy to go to the gym in my third challenge.

    - I had no problem burning 700-1300 Calories in 2.5-3.5 hours on cardio machines during my third challenge, in a fasted state.

    So I consider that, at least for me, the answer given in the forum is totally wrong.

    I also should note that doing cardio in a fasted state is part of my original program (first thirty-day challenge), based on youtube videos for what **works** - when I copied what someone else was doing. (I was especially interested in women who have lost a very signficant amount of fat, since it is harder for women to burn off fat than it is for men, I think. We can output more Calories.)

    So based on my results I would say that if anyone wants to follow my program for becoming leaner, not that it is a good idea or a good use of time, then they should do cardio in a totally fasted state, such as in the morning without having breakfast. They should eat a protein-rich meal within 30 minutes after finishing their workout.

    So, you have your reference. You can't claim it's not very clear. For me personally, it turned out to be wrong.

    Of course, n=1 isn't a real study. This is what I found personally. There could be other explanations.
    Reply With Quote

  12. #42
    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2019
    Age: 50
    Posts: 1,923
    Rep Power: 3637
    air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500)
    air2fakie is online now
    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    if anyone wants to follow my program for becoming leaner
    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    Finally, I'd like to remind people that my heros in youtube videos always said that "consistency is key".
    The fact you think you have a program someone could or would follow is hilarious. Post on YT instead of here and you could be someone else's hero, esp if you include all the ladies who you say throw themselves at you and on top of you now.

    "Don't waste your time with structured programs that tell you what to do, when to do it and how you do it. With my videos, you too can work out however you want for 3 hours a day, whenever you feel like it, and eat whatever you want... just do it consistently and you'll lose 1 lb in 3 months too!"
    Reply With Quote

  13. #43
    Registered User peterm28's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2017
    Age: 34
    Posts: 354
    Rep Power: 141
    peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    peterm28 is offline
    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    The fact you think you have a program someone could or would follow is hilarious. Post on YT instead of here and you could be someone else's hero, esp if you include all the ladies who you say throw themselves at you and on top of you now.

    "Don't waste your time with structured programs that tell you what to do, when to do it and how you do it. With my videos, you too can work out however you want for 3 hours a day, whenever you feel like it, and eat whatever you want... just do it consistently and you'll lose 1 lb in 3 months too!"
    I'm not promoting anything and I don't have videos. But if I did have a structured program it would be this:

    1. You need a baseline of strength. (In my case I thought I was strong enough, had enough muscle already to effectively do my program.) If you're not strong enough you need to build some muscle first.

    2. The basis of the program is several hours of intense cardio every morning, really as much as you can of it - 3 hours, 4 hours - whatever you can put into it, every day that you can. Go all out, and take caffeine before you do it. This is the entire basis of the program. Do it in a fasted state. Use the cardio machines, at the greatest resistance/effort you can. Break a sweat every time. Work hard.

    3. take 5 mg per day of creatine. drink plenty of water.

    4. Monitor and restrict your calories while ensuring that you are eating sufficient protein.

    5. do a bit of haphazard lifting after your cardio without any real rhyme or reason just to keep the muscles shocked and awed.

    That's it. That's my program.

    Since there are some blind people here, I found some picturs with the reference, way-too-tight pants that I tried on occasionally. Here is a 60-day comparison of how much fat I lost. These are honest neutral photos in the same pose, state, and lighting:

    https://ibb.co/4SfkQXG

    As you can see, in the first photo these "reference pants" are way too small for me. (I could hardly button them.)

    However there are some blind people in this forum who claim that I'm only just leaning forward or something. It's pretty funny.

    The part you say about women is totally true. The last girl to see me without a shirt said wow you obviously work out. According to this forum she's just imagining things and 90 days ago she would have said the same thing if I leaned forward a little bit to confuse her perspective. Hilarious. Obviously I'm way more fit now it's really obvious.

    For completeness here are the "reference pants" comparisons at 3 different times that I used: https://ibb.co/KNmVXnr (not important to check) just because some people here accuse me of making stuff up.

    I look much better and my program is totally "worth" it. I love my new body.

    I think I'll go on a semi-structured program next, such as split workouts with an app (starts with a J) that acts like a kind of coach. I haven't 100% decided. I think that going forward, cardio will not be a large part of my program, because although my program worked, it didn't get me to my personal 90-day goal (12% bodyfat) and I think that based on the feedback that I've been getting I am more likely to achieve that.

    The amount of cardio that I was doing is ridiculous, it's way too much. It really felt like a job to me. It definitely "works" though, I mean that even a blind person should be able to see it. I have lots of stamina, too. So it has its benefits.
    Last edited by peterm28; 02-01-2020 at 09:57 AM.
    Reply With Quote

  14. #44
    Registered User peterm28's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2017
    Age: 34
    Posts: 354
    Rep Power: 141
    peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    peterm28 is offline
    Originally Posted by dylanstephens54 View Post
    You do look the same though you are just leaning forward and flexing in other leaning back and relaxed

    You are like a insta thot compairing diffrent body positions
    your comment bothered me all day. Here is a clear photo I found where I put on pants that were way too tight, 60 days apart: https://ibb.co/4SfkQXG

    both I'm standing neutrally under the same conditions, not flexing.

    (I compiled a couple of more pictures here - same 60 days. In the four last ones under the red lines, I'm pumped, dehydrated, and flexing: https://ibb.co/KNmVXnr )

    actually though you are right in that "insta thots" videos about their transformations are a huge source of inspiration to me. so maybe you need to rethink your idea that instathots' before/after pictures are just them leaning forward and flexing.
    Last edited by peterm28; 02-01-2020 at 09:56 AM.
    Reply With Quote

  15. #45
    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2019
    Age: 50
    Posts: 1,923
    Rep Power: 3637
    air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500)
    air2fakie is online now
    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    1. You need a baseline of strength. (In my case I thought I was strong enough, had enough muscle already to effectively do my program.)
    Debatable when you squat/DL with no plates.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    2. The basis of the program is several hours of intense cardio every morning, really as much as you can of it - 3 hours, 4 hours ... This is the entire basis of the program.
    Oh, so this is what a program looks like.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    5. do a bit of haphazard lifting after your cardio without any real rhyme or reason just to keep the muscles shocked and awed.
    You must've shocked and awed your muscles into hiding.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    Since there are some blind people here, I found some picturs with the reference, way-too-tight pants that I tried on occasionally.
    No desire to see your stated pleather pants pics any more than your underwear pics. Some ppl judge cut success by weight loss on the scale, you by pleather pants. Some judge lifting progress by muscle development, you by jawline and collarbone definition.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    The part you say about women is totally true. The last girl to see me without a shirt said wow you obviously work out.
    Learn the art of sarcasm. And stop walking around town shirtless in pleather pants.
    Reply With Quote

  16. #46
    Registered User peterm28's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2017
    Age: 34
    Posts: 354
    Rep Power: 141
    peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    peterm28 is offline
    @air2fakie

    I read what you just wrote. I think the essential difference is that my goal was body composition, (fat loss) not building muscles. my scale weight didn't move but that doesn't mean I didn't make progress based on my desires. Contrary to your claim, I personally think that jeans that are too tight are an extremely effective way to judge fat loss. This forum can't even agree about what my bodyfat percentage is to within 5%.

    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    Learn the art of sarcasm.
    sorry, didn't realize you were sarcastic. yes, women throw themselves at me and on top of me now, literally jumping on me and wrapping their legs around me on the dance floor, touching me unprovoked, coming and standing or sitting next to me and starting to talk to me, and texting me apologetically that they're on their period before I come over (when I literally never touched them.) And when I take my shirt off (in private) they say it's obvious I work out.

    These were the kind of goals I had in mind, and they would only intensify if I actually got to 10%-12% bodyfat. But I'm not going to do it by continuing to follow my "drastic cutting" program, I think my next step is to mostly follow a strength program based on lifting. I think I am not going to touch the cardio machines much, it is not really worth it. (despite my progress.)

    But I am still glad I ran my experiment and I learned a lot. If you don't want to learn anything from my hours of work and detailed progress pics and diary, that's on you.
    Last edited by peterm28; 02-01-2020 at 10:22 AM.
    Reply With Quote

  17. #47
    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2019
    Age: 50
    Posts: 1,923
    Rep Power: 3637
    air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) air2fakie is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500)
    air2fakie is online now
    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    I think the essential difference is that my goal was body composition, (fat loss) not building muscles.
    Failed at both.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    my scale weight didn't move but that doesn't mean I didn't make progress based on my desires.
    Desire must've been to look the same at the same weight, mission accomplished.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    This forum can't even agree about what my bodyfat percentage is to within 5%.
    Everyone including yourself agrees it's about the same as before, mission accomplished.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    yes, women throw themselves at me and on top of me now, literally jumping on me and wrapping their legs around me on the dance floor, touching me unprovoked, coming and standing or sitting next to me and starting to talk to me
    No wonder why you always end up napping when you're supposed to go the gym and have no energy.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    texting me apologetically that they're on their period before I come over (when I literally never touched them.)
    When numerous girls don't let you touch them and repeatedly tell you they're on their period every time you want to come over, you might want to re-think that.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    If you don't want to learn anything from my hours of work and detailed progress pics and diary, that's on you.
    I'll wait for the YouTube weightlifting instructional videos so I can learn from the master.
    Reply With Quote

  18. #48
    Chihuahua in the rain Corbets's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2018
    Location: ZG, Switzerland
    Posts: 651
    Rep Power: 5758
    Corbets is a name known to all. (+5000) Corbets is a name known to all. (+5000) Corbets is a name known to all. (+5000) Corbets is a name known to all. (+5000) Corbets is a name known to all. (+5000) Corbets is a name known to all. (+5000) Corbets is a name known to all. (+5000) Corbets is a name known to all. (+5000) Corbets is a name known to all. (+5000) Corbets is a name known to all. (+5000) Corbets is a name known to all. (+5000)
    Corbets is offline
    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    I like your example a lot, and thanks for introducing it to this conversation.
    There is no conversation here. There are your delusions and ramblings, and other people making sport of you, but there’s really no conversation.
    My Candito Linear log:
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=177212011&p=1581528721#post1581528721

    My Fierce 5 Novice log (deprecated): https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175702561&p=1550387651#post1550387651

    My Strava profile: https://www.strava.com/athletes/3015113
    Reply With Quote

  19. #49
    Registered User peterm28's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2017
    Age: 34
    Posts: 354
    Rep Power: 141
    peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    peterm28 is offline
    Originally Posted by Corbets View Post
    There is no conversation here. There are your delusions and ramblings, and other people making sport of you, but there’s really no conversation.
    Yes I find their style a bit irritating. However, air2fakie has solid advice as well so I just have to put up with it.

    Your take that I'm "delusional" is objectively wrong though: the scale, which measures bodyfat through impedence, shows a lower bodyfat percentage, and it's totally obvious that major fat loss has occurred between these two photos: https://ibb.co/4SfkQXG (belly showing, tight "reference" jeans.)

    So it's obviously the people who say "you're just leaning forward brah and flexing" who are delusional.

    I guess I didn't explain what I meant by girls I haven't touched saying they're on their periods. I'm not going to spell that one out for you guys. I have sex. yay.

    Your point about rambling is fair. My write-up could have used a huge edit; I just wanted to get my thoughts down.

    sorry it's not more concise.

    the bottom line is that it works and works well, but is probably too much work and there are probably other approaches that work better. it didn't get me to 12% bodyfat as I'd have hoped.
    Reply With Quote

  20. #50
    Registered User rsid97's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2017
    Location: Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts: 1,295
    Rep Power: 14638
    rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000)
    rsid97 is offline
    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    I never said "exclusively" cardio but you're right that I was doing primarily cardio.
    I'm not sure where you got your 1,000 Calories quote from, I am sure I never had a daily consumption target that low. My initial goal was to eat a normal amount but do a lot of cardio.
    When you posted your first 30 day results, you didn't seem to be doing any weight training. Not that the difference between exclusive and primary matters in your case when you're not on a proper routine and doing stuff on smith machines and isolations primarily in combination with the highly unecessary amounts of cardio.
    And yeah, I meant to say 1000 calories under, not consumed, since you were aiming for a 1100 calorie deficit to be specific, mis-wrote that bit there.
    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    That's awesome man. could you share any progress pictures? Do people treat you any differently? (Women treat me totally differently now.)
    I could care less how women or anyone with an untrained eye treats me. I value the opinion of my mentors and people from this forum who give me critical feedback, but not of some random people who don’t know better and can be highly subjective. No offense to them, but its probably the worst way to obtain feedback when it comes to making physical changes. I’ve had people tell me I looked ‘fat and unsightly and needed to lose weight to get better abs’ when I weighed 46kg and I’ve had people tell me I look feeble and weak at 85kg, so yeah.
    Here are progress pics taken 11 weeks in - https://imgur.com/a/75lrpOj
    I only included ‘fair comparisons’ and kept my after photos as unflattering as possible, since I know you’re all about that. Conditions are all the same in the before/afters. Threw in some ‘unfair’ comparisons at the end for fun, since, that’s kinda what these threads end up becoming lol.


    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    This is where I asked about this https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...7711341&page=1As you can see it was early in my second challenge (I think, I didn't check the dates.) This was a super-clear answer

    That's pretty clear, it says: "benefits: none besides convenience for some".

    Someone else said "It's just a strategy. As opposed to using will power to adhere to your daily calories", a third person said "You stimulate your appetite less often and find it easier to comply with a calorie restricted diet. That's it. "

    So I consider that, at least for me, the answer given in the forum is totally wrong.

    So based on my results I would say that if anyone wants to follow my program for becoming leaner, not that it is a good idea or a good use of time, then they should do cardio in a totally fasted state, such as in the morning without having breakfast.

    Of course, n=1 isn't a real study. This is what I found personally. There could be other explanations.
    I don't know if you're being ignorant or intentionally misleading, as this is highly misleading to anyone that hasn't dug through all your previous posts and bothered to read them. The thread you linked me to is you asking about intermittent fasting, not fasted cardio, two completely different things. The responses you got are accurate as the question you put forward was asking about intermittent fasting, not the effects of fasted cardio on fat loss in comparison to non-fasted cardio. It was you that chose to extrapolate that into eating whatever whenever and connecting that to your cardio, that doesn't make the original responses or the forum false, you falsified the information by applying it to a scenario which did not reflect the original question that was put forward.

    Furthermore, you yourself keep doing this where you're trying to act scientific about your approach, yet you counter debate against yourself by pointing out that you have multiple variables at play and say its not scientific. Yet you go on to try to make a solid conclusion out of it... Makes zero sense. Conclusions can not be made in that manner. And just to throw another wrench into the mix, science aside, how's this for an explanation - month one you did your fasted cardio and went ham and got tired, month two fatigue built up and you started skipping days and sleeping through workouts to compensate, month three your fatigue level droped off a bit due to your inconsistencies in month two which allows you to train better and the fasting had nothing to do with it. Am I saying this is what happened for sure? No. But all the same, you have no way of saying that this was not what happened. I.e - you can't make solid conclusions like you did by taking a response to a question, applying it to a scenario that is different from the question, throwing a billion different uncontrolled variables in the mix, and then coming with a secure response of 'the answer given in the forum is totally wrong.".

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    The part you wrote in this section is fair, all right - you don't have to type out again the advice you gave previously.
    Well, glad we got here. Balls in your court now. Keep going as you are, making these threads that go nowhere, just like your lack of progress which you claim to be happy with. Or make the necessary changes and get you wanted to be in a few years’ time.
    Redcon1 Tier Operator - T20RSid

    Some lifting stuff (IG) - @rsid_97

    My Growth Stimulus Training journal - https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175699161
    Reply With Quote

  21. #51
    Registered User DCSpartan's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2010
    Age: 48
    Posts: 11,168
    Rep Power: 20152
    DCSpartan has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) DCSpartan has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) DCSpartan has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) DCSpartan has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) DCSpartan has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) DCSpartan has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) DCSpartan has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) DCSpartan has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) DCSpartan has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) DCSpartan has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) DCSpartan has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    DCSpartan is offline
    Originally Posted by Corbets View Post
    There is no conversation here. There are your delusions and ramblings, and other people making sport of you, but there’s really no conversation.
    Yep.
    Reply With Quote

  22. #52
    Registered User LMS62's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2014
    Location: United States
    Age: 57
    Posts: 135
    Rep Power: 3590
    LMS62 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) LMS62 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) LMS62 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) LMS62 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) LMS62 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) LMS62 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) LMS62 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) LMS62 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) LMS62 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) LMS62 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) LMS62 is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500)
    LMS62 is offline
    I consider the op’s threads/posts to be “for entertainment purposes only”.
    Reply With Quote

  23. #53
    Registered User peterm28's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2017
    Age: 34
    Posts: 354
    Rep Power: 141
    peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    peterm28 is offline
    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    When you posted your first 30 day results, you didn't seem to be doing any weight training. Not that the difference between exclusive and primary matters in your case when you're not on a proper routine and doing stuff on smith machines and isolations primarily in combination with the highly unecessary amounts of cardio.
    And yeah, I meant to say 1000 calories under, not consumed, since you were aiming for a 1100 calorie deficit to be specific, mis-wrote that bit there.
    First thanks for the clarification, it's an important one. You are totally right that my initial target was 1100 calorie deficit and this was too aggressive. So in the end I did what I could on the Cardio machines but it's not supposed to have added up to 1100 Calorie deficit.

    I'm not sure why you say "you didnt' seem to be doing any weight training"; although I wasn't on a program, I always used the isolation machines for various bodyparts, at the end of my cardio. Just not for very long, and not a lot of compound movements.

    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    I could care less how women or anyone with an untrained eye treats me.
    Well then you wouldn't care about bodyfat percentage (unless you're making weight as a boxer), since a few extra percent of body fat won't make you weaker. I clearly have very different motivations and all I cared about (my primary objective) was dropping bodyfat percentage; not losing muscle mass was, for me, only a secondy objective. Obviously this is backwards from the usual mentality, where gaining muscle is the most important.

    Since I didn't achieve 12% bodyfat within 90 days, which is possible for people cutting after building a lot of muscle, in this sense I failed to meet my objective. But I still made a large improvement, just not as much as my target.

    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    I’ve had people tell me I looked ‘fat and unsightly and needed to lose weight to get better abs’ when I weighed 46kg and I’ve had people tell me I look feeble and weak at 85kg, so yeah.
    I don't understand how this could have happened. What do you think the explanation for this was? I think people are extremely good at judging leanness, (low bodyfat percentage) which they place greater emphasis on than total muscle mass.

    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    Here are progress pics taken 11 weeks in - https://imgur.com/a/75lrpOj
    I only included ‘fair comparisons’ and kept my after photos as unflattering as possible, since I know you’re all about that. Conditions are all the same in the before/afters. Threw in some ‘unfair’ comparisons at the end for fun, since, that’s kinda what these threads end up becoming lol.
    Those are awesome!! Good job. You have a huge and clear progress. If you did it in 11 weeks that is much more than I achieved in 12 weeks. What program did you follow?

    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    The thread you linked me to is you asking about intermittent fasting, not fasted cardio, two completely different things. The responses you got are accurate as the question you put forward was asking about intermittent fasting, not the effects of fasted cardio on fat loss in comparison to non-fasted cardio. It was you that chose to extrapolate that into eating whatever whenever and connecting that to your cardio
    yes you're right. I didn't consider what you just said, that maybe what I wrote about IF doesn't apply to fasted cardio.


    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    ...And just to throw another wrench into the mix, science aside, how's this for an explanation - month one you did your fasted cardio and went ham and got tired, month two fatigue built up and you started skipping days and sleeping through workouts to compensate, month three your fatigue level droped off a bit due to your inconsistencies in month two which allows you to train better and the fasting had nothing to do with it. Am I saying this is what happened for sure? No. But all the same, you have no way of saying that this was not what happened. I.e - you can't make solid conclusions like you did by taking a response to a question, applying it to a scenario that is different from the question, throwing a billion different uncontrolled variables in the mix, and then coming with a secure response of 'the answer given in the forum is totally wrong.".
    That's quite plausible and I strongly considered that this might have happened. However throughout the last 30 days I kept still not getting tired. So I rejected this explanation. (Though you could be right.) To me it seems like it's always possible to train for hours in the morning in a fasted state.


    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    just like your lack of progress which you claim to be happy with.
    can you look at these two photos 8 weeks apart and say "there is no progress here"? https://ibb.co/4SfkQXG (they're like for like, unflexed in both. it's the closeup of my belly in too-tight jeans.)
    Reply With Quote

  24. #54
    Registered User rsid97's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2017
    Location: Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts: 1,295
    Rep Power: 14638
    rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000)
    rsid97 is offline
    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    First thanks for the clarification, it's an important one. You are totally right that my initial target was 1100 calorie deficit and this was too aggressive. So in the end I did what I could on the Cardio machines but it's not supposed to have added up to 1100 Calorie deficit.

    I'm not sure why you say "you didnt' seem to be doing any weight training"; although I wasn't on a program, I always used the isolation machines for various bodyparts, at the end of my cardio. Just not for very long, and not a lot of compound movements.
    Your random pixie dusting of isolations as and when you please doesn't count as proper weight training, which is why I said that. Picture a hypothetical situation where someone exclusively does weight training 3 days a week,and sometimes they need to pee so they walk to the bathroom and count that as cardio training that is equivalent to what you performed for the last three months. That's pretty much the same (inversed) of what you're saying you did with weights. His walk to the bathroom doesn't count as proper cardio training, your sprinkling of isolations doesn't count as proper weight training.


    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    Well then you wouldn't care about bodyfat percentage (unless you're making weight as a boxer), since a few extra percent of body fat won't make you weaker. I clearly have very different motivations and all I cared about (my primary objective) was dropping bodyfat percentage; not losing muscle mass was, for me, only a secondy objective. Obviously this is backwards from the usual mentality, where gaining muscle is the most important.
    Kinda funny that you come to the conclusion that determines what I do and don't care about purely based on me stating that I don't care about the opinion of an untrained eye. You're as fast to jump to conclusions without observing the necessary variables as always. My main goal of this cut is to drop body fat percentage while maintaining muscle mass. That goal is independent of what some random jane thinks about me. The opinion of an untrained eye does not alter the actual change made. That's like asking a deaf person for singing advice and taking their word for gospel. And as I said before, I care about the critical feedback and advice of my mentors and members of this forum. So all I can chalk this up to is you claiming that I don't care about body fat percentage loss because I don't care about the opinion of some random girl, which.... I honestly can't even think of a response to.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    Since I didn't achieve 12% bodyfat within 90 days, which is possible for people cutting after building a lot of muscle, in this sense I failed to meet my objective. But I still made a large improvement, just not as much as my target.
    "large improvement' relative to what?


    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    I don't understand how this could have happened. What do you think the explanation for this was? I think people are extremely good at judging leanness, (low bodyfat percentage) which they place greater emphasis on than total muscle mass.
    There's a lot that you don't understand, clearly. The explanation is that your belief is false. "People' as in, typical folk are horrendous at judging leanness, rely too much on emotions and subjective viewpoints rather than having any actual clue of what bodyfat percentages look like. I've almost never seen someone guess their own bodyfat percentage accurately without having some amount of experience in this game. Even people who have a few years of lifting under their belt often underestimate their body fat by 5% or more. Theres I reason that I, even after all these years of lifting and coaching others will still have a mentor or someone on this forum estimate my bodyfat rather than guessing it myself. Because even all this experience can go false when estimating something visually. Taking all that into consideration, it should be blatantly obvious how thinking that random folk are good at estimating leanness is utterly ridiculous.


    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    Those are awesome!! Good job. You have a huge and clear progress. If you did it in 11 weeks that is much more than I achieved in 12 weeks. What program did you follow?
    Yeah it was 11 weeks, still got a while more to go though. I've been on an ULPPL split with the 2nd leg day being partly arms after the leg portion of the workout, 15 mins of low intensity cardio twice a week.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    That's quite plausible and I strongly considered that this might have happened. However throughout the last 30 days I kept still not getting tired. So I rejected this explanation. (Though you could be right.) To me it seems like it's always possible to train for hours in the morning in a fasted state.
    Again, with what proof that eliminates all the other fluctuating variables at play? You not being tired these last 30 days is not evidence against the hypothesis that you were tired in month 2 due to accumulated fatigue from month 1 which was deloaded off when coming into month 3. And lets not bring up month 4 because there's no reason why this pattern is guaranteed to continue. My point wasn't even to provide this as an explanation (although it is far more plausible than you having some unique physiology), it was to illustrate that you continually jump to conclusions, ignoring confounding variables and try to make scientific claims which are nothing more than personally biased opinions which suit your 'world view'.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    can you look at these two photos 8 weeks apart and say "there is no progress here"? https://ibb.co/4SfkQXG (they're like for like, unflexed in both. it's the closeup of my belly in too-tight jeans.)
    To quote myself, I didn't say there is 'no progress', I said 'lack' of progress, lack and total absence are two different descriptors. There is a minute difference there sure, but I don't see a point in debating over whether or not a sub-optimal practice achieves a difference in a newbie trainee. That difference could have been achieved in 24 hours. If science debated over sub-optimal practices, then nobody would get anywhere, we have to consider what is optimal for a goal, not what is the least sub-optimal way of doing things while showing a minuscule difference in an 8 week time frame in a newbie trainee who would have responded to literally any type of training anyways. My point being, there is no point in this comparison or even if there is a difference or not.
    Redcon1 Tier Operator - T20RSid

    Some lifting stuff (IG) - @rsid_97

    My Growth Stimulus Training journal - https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175699161
    Reply With Quote

  25. #55
    Registered User peterm28's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2017
    Age: 34
    Posts: 354
    Rep Power: 141
    peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    peterm28 is offline
    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    "large improvement' relative to what?
    relative to not doing anything or looking the same; large improvement relative to how I looked.

    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    "People' as in, typical folk are horrendous at judging leanness, rely too much on emotions and subjective viewpoints rather than having any actual clue of what bodyfat percentages look like
    seems kind of delusional to me, like you're saying: "it's not that people think I'm not lean, they just don't know how to judge." To me, in your before pictures you looked "fat" to the average Jane in the street (but maybe she liked it, because you're strong, too). To me, in your after pic you don't look fat anymore but you don't look very lean either yet. You would have a six pack visible if you got leaner, and more striations.

    Do you plan to continue to drop bodyfat until you get a sixpack?

    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    Even people who have a few years of lifting under their belt often underestimate their body fat by 5% or more.
    what do you think my bodyfat is in the after picture? the before picture? I suppose your guess is "32% bodyfat in the after picture; same in the before picture. there's literally no change." (to me this seems delusional.)


    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    Yeah it was 11 weeks, still got a while more to go though. I've been on an ULPPL split with the 2nd leg day being partly arms after the leg portion of the workout, 15 mins of low intensity cardio twice a week.
    Thanks. By the way I have a number of troll followers, if I wrote the same thing you just wrote they would say "2nd leg day being partly arms lol" and mention it every time they talk about how I think following a program means leg daysa re partly arm days. I think what you're doing is great and clearly shows great results for you, and I don't think you're breaking a program by mixing and matching elements.

    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    And lets not bring up month 4
    My experiment is over; I'm not continuing it now. I'm taking a few days off and then deciding what to do next. I might switch to a new experiment in which I do 0 cardio, do splits as coached by a training app (one that starts with a J) that tracks exercises, reps, and sets. I tried that app once and afterwards really felt the burn in parts of my body I didn't exercise before. I think muscle grows more slowly than fat can be lost, but I will track my progress on it.

    I currently have the app split to Monday: Chest and Triceps; Wednesday: Back and Biceps; Friday: legs.
    For example on the Chest and Triceps it lists 5 exercises: barbell bench press (3 sets of 10 reps, 120 seconds rest); Barbell Incline Bench press: 3 sets of 10 reps (rest: 120s); Dumbbell Shoulder Pres 3 sets of 8 reps (rest: 90 seconds); Dumbbell Lateral Raise 3 sets of 15 reps, 60 seconds rest.; Cable One Arm Tricep Extension (it shows a pushdown): 3 sets of 15 reps: rest: 60 seconds.

    I would probably add my own random stuff to this, for example there is a tricep isolation machine so I would add it and use it, and I would also do overhead cable triceps extensions; for chest it doesn't include flys but there's a machine for that so I think I would include it.


    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    To quote myself, I didn't say there is 'no progress', I said 'lack' of progress, lack and total absence are two different descriptors.
    My bad. To me lack of progress means no progress, absence of progress; I thought they're synonyms. To be fair the word means both "without" and "not enough of" according to the dictionary.


    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    That difference could have been achieved in 24 hours.
    you can make love handles disappear in 24 hours? https://ibb.co/4SfkQXG - all right, cool. But I'm not the delusional one.

    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    a newbie trainee who would have responded to literally any type of training anyways.
    if I do the split training that I'm planning I'll be able to see if you're right or not.

    good luck on the rest of your cut as well.
    Reply With Quote

  26. #56
    Registered User rsid97's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2017
    Location: Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts: 1,295
    Rep Power: 14638
    rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000)
    rsid97 is offline
    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    relative to not doing anything or looking the same; large improvement relative to how I looked.
    You may want to say that, because relative to literally anything other than not doing anything, this doesn't qualify as a 'large' improvement.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    seems kind of delusional to me, like you're saying: "it's not that people think I'm not lean, they just don't know how to judge." To me, in your before pictures you looked "fat" to the average Jane in the street (but maybe she liked it, because you're strong, too). To me, in your after pic you don't look fat anymore but you don't look very lean either yet. You would have a six pack visible if you got leaner, and more striations.
    These are the types of responses which gets you called a troll by the rest of the forum. There's literally nothing delusional about saying that if you want advice on a certain topic, you should seek the advice of those trained at providing said advice, not random girls around your locality. The only thing delusional here is you thinking otherwise. And again, you've proved my point by exactly what you said, you thought that a random girl would think I looked fat before and not 'very lean' now. Who gets to decide what is the objective definition of fat? Who defines what is lean? Where does very lean become different from lean? In korea a 50kg is considered fat, in other countries she'd be considered athletic, in some slim, in some underweight. Some consider me lean, some consider me very lean, some consider me not so lean. How do any of these subjective noise matter in the face of the reality of where my bodyfat is at? Absolutely nothing that you said here makes a sliver of sense, which is the exact problem with asking random people for their opinions rather than listening to that of people who have spent close to a decade if not more, estimating the body fat percentages of thousands upon thousands of people here!

    Talking about delusional, geez, so if what I said was delusional, then the inverse must be valid for you. I said that the views of some random jane does not matter in comparison to that of my coaches, mentors and forum members who estimate my body fat percentage for me with a trained eye. You claiming that that is delusional validates the inverse of it. So what comes next? Oh Peter needs a bypass surgery, we should call a heart surgeon because he's spent a decade of his life training for it. Oh wait no Peter would say that's delusional to call an expert, lets call the local butcher instead.

    Oh, Peter you want to put a few million dollars into building a house? You should consult an engineer and an architect. Oh wait what's that? That's delusional to call the expert that's spent half a decade studying for this and another decade of work experience in constructing houses? Oh cool, lets go to the beach and ask some of the kids building sandcastles on their opinion instead cuz that's totally not delusional.

    Oh Peter, you have a tooth ache with some cavities and plague build up? Lets get you to a dentist, oh wait no, that's delusional to call the guy that has studied to deal with teeth. Lets call the toilet cleaner and plumber to just clean out your mouth instead, they know heaps about cleaning and its not at all delusional!

    See what I mean?

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    Do you plan to continue to drop bodyfat until you get a sixpack?
    Yes and no. I do plan on dropping more bodyfat till I get to around 10-12% depending on how my muscle mass is holding up and such. I may have a full six pack by then, I may not, only time will tell. Ultimately I realize its not all about one straight cut and may have to go through maintenance and bulking phases and attempt another cut in the future, depending on where I end up at the end of this cut. But I'm guessing I'm going to be cutting for a while longer since I'm not struggling or anything at the moment.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    what do you think my bodyfat is in the after picture? the before picture? I suppose your guess is "32% bodyfat in the after picture; same in the before picture. there's literally no change." (to me this seems delusional.)
    To me it certainly seems delusional that you chose to ask a question, give a response on my behalf and then come to the conclusion that 'my' response which you created as delusional. Lol. I'm not saying 32%, but between your 2nd month to now, I seriously can't tell any difference in body fat percentage.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    Thanks. By the way I have a number of troll followers, if I wrote the same thing you just wrote they would say "2nd leg day being partly arms lol" and mention it every time they talk about how I think following a program means leg daysa re partly arm days. I think what you're doing is great and clearly shows great results for you, and I don't think you're breaking a program by mixing and matching elements.
    Technically, I am breaking a program. And technically people are in their right to call me out for it. It doesn't make them trolls to me, nor towards you. Learn to ditch the victimhood mentality. What I am running is a modification of a traditional ULPPL, with the addition of the arm work, it doesn't qualify as a traditional ULPPL. People make statements against you because of everything that you've said across these transformation threads which make absolutely no sense 99.99% of the time. I wouldn't advocate for adding arm work on the end of a leg day. I wouldn't advocate an ULPPL split for 99.99% of trainees in the first place as most people won't reach the point where they require that level of volume and can maintain a high enough intensity at that level of volume, simultaneously. Most people are going to have well developed arms by that stage.

    Once you've spent a few years of proper training, with proper nutrition, sleep, hydration etc, got yourself up to some decent lifting numbers Benching 265, squatting 330lbs for reps, deadlifting 419lbs, rowing 230 for reps with pristine form, shoulder pressing 225lbs for reps, doing proper full ROM pull ups for sets of 8 with 93lbs attached to you, chest supported rowing 330lbs for sets of 10, 225lbs on the lat pull down for sets of 10, incline dumbell benching 90lbs per arm for sets of 10, once you're doing all this in addition to say, having 6 sets of isolations on biceps and triceps per week. And you've added 104lbs of mass onto your frame, or more than doubled your bodyweight, in a slow and steady fashion (i.e no more than 0.5lbs gained per week). During which period you've spent a solid amount of time running a full body routine until you milked every last bit out of it, then proceeded to do so with an UL split, and you've never missed a single day or goofed off with your diet and stuff. After all that if you've STILL got pathetic arms, then yes, we can talk about adding some arm work onto the end of a leg day. Until then, focus on getting up the mountain before trying to treat yourself like a special snowflake, that's what gets you the 'trolling'. Take peoples' advice, put in some good honest work, respect and act on the advice you receive from others for FREE, and then we'll see if you're getting 'trolled' or not.


    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    My experiment is over; I'm not continuing it now. I'm taking a few days off and then deciding what to do next. I might switch to a new experiment in which I do 0 cardio, do splits as coached by a training app (one that starts with a J) that tracks exercises, reps, and sets. I tried that app once and afterwards really felt the burn in parts of my body I didn't exercise before. I think muscle grows more slowly than fat can be lost, but I will track my progress on it.

    I currently have the app split to Monday: Chest and Triceps; Wednesday: Back and Biceps; Friday: legs.
    For example on the Chest and Triceps it lists 5 exercises: barbell bench press (3 sets of 10 reps, 120 seconds rest); Barbell Incline Bench press: 3 sets of 10 reps (rest: 120s); Dumbbell Shoulder Pres 3 sets of 8 reps (rest: 90 seconds); Dumbbell Lateral Raise 3 sets of 15 reps, 60 seconds rest.; Cable One Arm Tricep Extension (it shows a pushdown): 3 sets of 15 reps: rest: 60 seconds.

    I would probably add my own random stuff to this, for example there is a tricep isolation machine so I would add it and use it, and I would also do overhead cable triceps extensions; for chest it doesn't include flys but there's a machine for that so I think I would include it.
    Why am I not surprised that you chose potentially the worst way to go about your new routine........ I applaud you. It takes some serious effort to mess up this bad, with such unwavering precision when you have a wealth of knowledge right infront of you in this forum.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    you can make love handles disappear in 24 hours? https://ibb.co/4SfkQXG - all right, cool. But I'm not the delusional one.
    They didn't 'disappear', dear delusional one. As you yourself have demonstrated with these great experiments of yours, minuscule changes can be made on an hourly basis.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    if I do the split training that I'm planning I'll be able to see if you're right or not.
    Urm, I beg your pardon? You will not do any such thing, lol. You're repeating the exact same thing you did with the intermittent fasting episode. One of the many pieces of advice we gave you was to get a structured routine of a certain recommendation, you chose to pick up some random app with a wackjob of a routine. So you're holding that L, not us. And before you get any wise ideas for a new transformation post where you quote me. I'm not saying that routine won't get you 'zero' gains or anything of that nature. I'm saying it does not perfectly align with our suggestions or even my own, so don't come blaming us if some random girl says your chin doesn't look orgasmic or whatever....
    Redcon1 Tier Operator - T20RSid

    Some lifting stuff (IG) - @rsid_97

    My Growth Stimulus Training journal - https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175699161
    Reply With Quote

  27. #57
    Registered User peterm28's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2017
    Age: 34
    Posts: 354
    Rep Power: 141
    peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    peterm28 is offline
    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    You may want to say that, because relative to literally anything other than not doing anything, this doesn't qualify as a 'large' improvement.
    All right. For me subjectively it has been substantial, and my clothing size changed - which was my goal. (And the reason I compared my body to jeans that are too tight.)

    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    if you want advice on a certain topic, you should seek the advice of those trained at providing said advice.
    To be fair you do see me posting on this forum asking for advice. I incorporated many parts of it, some more I'm seeing for myself. I think for the next portion I will follow a split program based on a workout app that tracks reps and sets and I will not do cardio.

    All that really matters to me is my personal satisfaction, the mirror, the clothes I fit in, the reaction of the people around me, since that's my goal.

    If you Google "male model shirtless" people here would scoff at that look, but, and this should go without saying, women consider it hot and many people would love to have a male model's shirtless physique.

    so different goals for different folks.

    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    Yes and no. I do plan on dropping more bodyfat till I get to around 10-12% depending on how my muscle mass is holding up and such. I may have a full six pack by then, I may not, only time will tell. Ultimately I realize its not all about one straight cut and may have to go through maintenance and bulking phases and attempt another cut in the future, depending on where I end up at the end of this cut. But I'm guessing I'm going to be cutting for a while longer since I'm not struggling or anything at the moment.
    thanks for the answer. your and my goals are different - personally I would want to have a six-pack if I keep training for another year.

    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    Lol. I'm not saying 32%
    so what are you saying? you went on and on about how, unlike me, you're qualified to judge, so what is your judgment of my bodyfat percentage 90 days ago and a few days ago? You literally didn't name any number. Please name 2 numbers, one for my 90 days ago figure and one for today even if, according to you, they're the same. I named 32% and 32% with no change since that's obviously wrong and I thought I could get you to name a number. I was wrong: you didn't name a number. (or even a range). go ahead - I'm listening.

    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    Once you've spent a few years of proper training, with proper nutrition, sleep, hydration etc, got yourself up to some decent lifting numbers Benching 265, squatting 330lbs for reps, deadlifting 419lbs, rowing 230 for reps with pristine form, shoulder pressing 225lbs for reps, doing proper full ROM pull ups for sets of 8 with 93lbs attached to you, chest supported rowing 330lbs for sets of 10, 225lbs on the lat pull down for sets of 10, incline dumbell benching 90lbs per arm for sets of 10, once you're doing all this in addition to say, having 6 sets of isolations on biceps and triceps per week. And you've added 104lbs of mass onto your frame, or more than doubled your bodyweight, in a slow and steady fashion (i.e no more than 0.5lbs gained per week). During which period you've spent a solid amount of time running a full body routine until you milked every last bit out of it, then proceeded to do so with an UL split, and you've never missed a single day or goofed off with your diet and stuff. After all that if you've STILL got pathetic arms, then yes, we can talk about adding some arm work onto the end of a leg day. Until then, focus on getting up the mountain
    This is pretty specific and amazing advice you're giving me so let's drop the name calling and animosity. (I saved your comment, because it is useful and specific.) Thank you.

    However I do have to say that as specific as it is - and I saved it, due to how useful and specific it is - I am not going to target it for myself.

    Honest question here: do you think that male models, let's take one in specific, this is someone who does intermittant fasting and eats once per day, let's take him:

    Conrad Bromfield.

    Here is a story about him: https://www.gq.com/story/male-model-...bromfield-diet

    Do you think he works out? (I bet, yes, quite a bit.)

    What do you guess his bodyfat percentage. Go ahead, take a guess.

    He has something like my goal physique.

    Now. Do you think he could make literally a single one of your numbers?

    My guess is no: not one since one of the very specific numbers you have suggested for me.

    What do you think? Just answer truthfully.

    Truthful, specific questions:

    1. Do you think he goes to the gym and works out?

    2. Do you think he could meet a single one of the targets you've set for me?

    Again, I think your answers are "1. I refuse to answer that question" and "2. I refuse to answer that question."

    That's okay.

    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    One of the many pieces of advice we gave you was to get a structured routine of a certain recommendation, you chose to pick up some random app with a wackjob of a routine.
    it's not a random app, it's the most famous app for structured routines. It's the first app you would find.

    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    And before you get any wise ideas for a new transformation post where you quote me. I'm not saying that routine won't get you 'zero' gains or anything of that nature. I'm saying it does not perfectly align with our suggestions or even my own, so don't come blaming us if some random girl says your chin doesn't look orgasmic or whatever....
    This part seems like you are saying, "Yes it can work 100%, and you can achieve exactly what you want in the next 90 days using it. But you're still an idiot for doing it that way."

    Please explain this hugely antagonistic language. If it doesn't injure me and I achieve exactly what I want then why are you being so antagonistic about my approach?

    It just seems to me that you and I have totally different goals. Don't you think this might be okay?

    Why would we all have the same goals? It should be pretty obvious that your goals and my goals are totally different. I don't mean, how we get there, but I mean the goals themselves.

    Why shouldn't that be okay?

    Please note that I'm reading everything you're saying. I haven't 100% decided on my next program yet.
    Last edited by peterm28; 02-02-2020 at 01:23 PM.
    Reply With Quote

  28. #58
    Super Macho FatBallz's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2019
    Posts: 1,472
    Rep Power: 8367
    FatBallz is a name known to all. (+5000) FatBallz is a name known to all. (+5000) FatBallz is a name known to all. (+5000) FatBallz is a name known to all. (+5000) FatBallz is a name known to all. (+5000) FatBallz is a name known to all. (+5000) FatBallz is a name known to all. (+5000) FatBallz is a name known to all. (+5000) FatBallz is a name known to all. (+5000) FatBallz is a name known to all. (+5000) FatBallz is a name known to all. (+5000)
    FatBallz is offline
    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    All right. For me subjectively it has been substantial, and my clothing size changed - which was my goal. (And the reason I compared my body to jeans that are too tight.)



    To be fair you do see me posting on this forum asking for advice. I incorporated many parts of it, some more I'm seeing for myself. I think for the next portion I will follow a split program based on a workout app that tracks reps and sets and I will not do cardio.

    All that really matters to me is my personal satisfaction, the mirror, the clothes I fit in, the reaction of the people around me, since that's my goal.

    If you Google "male model shirtless" people here would scoff at that look, but, and this should go without saying, women consider it hot and many people would love to have a male model's shirtless physique.

    so different goals for different folks.



    thanks for the answer. your and my goals are different - personally I would want to have a six-pack if I keep training for another year.



    so what are you saying? you went on and on about how, unlike me, you're qualified to judge, so what is your judgment of my bodyfat percentage 90 days ago and a few days ago? You literally didn't name any number. Please name 2 numbers, one for my 90 days ago figure and one for today even if, according to you, they're the same. I named 32% and 32% with no change since that's obviously wrong and I thought I could get you to name a number. I was wrong: you didn't name a number. (or even a range). go ahead - I'm listening.



    This is pretty specific and amazing advice you're giving me so let's drop the name calling and animosity. (I saved your comment, because it is useful and specific.) Thank you.

    However I do have to say that as specific as it is - and I saved it, due to how useful and specific it is - I am not going to target it for myself.

    Honest question here: do you think that male models, let's take one in specific, this is someone who does intermittant fasting and eats once per day, let's take him:

    Conrad Bromfield.

    Here is a story about him: https://www.gq.com/story/male-model-...bromfield-diet

    Do you think he works out? (I bet, yes, quite a bit.)

    What do you guess his bodyfat percentage. Go ahead, take a guess.

    He has something like my goal physique.

    Now. Do you think he could make literally a single one of your numbers?

    My guess is no: not one since one of the very specific numbers you have suggested for me.

    What do you think? Just answer truthfully.

    Truthful, specific questions:

    1. Do you think he goes to the gym and works out?

    2. Do you think he could meet a single one of the targets you've set for me?

    Again, I think your answers are "1. I refuse to answer that question" and "2. I refuse to answer that question."

    That's okay.



    it's not a random app, it's the most famous app for structured routines. It's the first app you would find.



    This part seems like you are saying, "Yes it can work 100%, and you can achieve exactly what you want in the next 90 days using it. But you're still an idiot for doing it that way."

    Please explain this hugely antagonistic language. If it doesn't injure me and I achieve exactly what I want then why are you being so antagonistic about my approach?

    It just seems to me that you and I have totally different goals. Don't you think this might be okay?

    Why would we all have the same goals? It should be pretty obvious that your goals and my goals are totally different. I don't mean, how we get there, but I mean the goals themselves.

    Why shouldn't that be okay?

    Please note that I'm reading everything you're saying. I haven't 100% decided on my next program yet.
    Deplorable Crew
    Suomalainen Crew
    Feels like a manlet around Amazonian women Crew
    Gets turned on when looking in the mirror Crew
    Reply With Quote

  29. #59
    Registered User rsid97's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2017
    Location: Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts: 1,295
    Rep Power: 14638
    rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) rsid97 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000)
    rsid97 is offline
    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    To be fair you do see me posting on this forum asking for advice. I incorporated many parts of it, some more I'm seeing for myself. I think for the next portion I will follow a split program based on a workout app that tracks reps and sets and I will not do cardio.
    To be fair, you've also spent countless posts going round and round the mulberry bush about how highly you value the subjective, inaccurate opinions of random girls as well, and now you've come full circle to trying to argue the opposite of what you've been advocating for all this time and even considered delusional.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    All that really matters to me is my personal satisfaction, the mirror, the clothes I fit in, the reaction of the people around me, since that's my goal.
    Then quit wasting other peoples' time asking for advice, complaining about how you didn't get where you wanted, asking for what to do next, propagating blatant lies, producing manipulative and mis-leading posts and references, twisting around advice into your own words to then find fault with them, and the list goes on. As Its been made clear, if that's what you care about then go whatever the hell you want to do and hold that L without coming to us about it after we've invested countless hours in helping you out for free.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    If you Google "male model shirtless" people here would scoff at that look, but, and this should go without saying, women consider it hot and many people would love to have a male model's shirtless physique.

    so different goals for different folks.
    Nobody told you to not have your own goals. Your goals don't align with your method which is what has been told to you from the start.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    so what are you saying? you went on and on about how, unlike me, you're qualified to judge, so what is your judgment of my bodyfat percentage 90 days ago and a few days ago? You literally didn't name any number. Please name 2 numbers, one for my 90 days ago figure and one for today even if, according to you, they're the same. I named 32% and 32% with no change since that's obviously wrong and I thought I could get you to name a number. I was wrong: you didn't name a number. (or even a range). go ahead - I'm listening.
    Another blatant lie. Go back and re-read my posts, not going to re-type what I've said half a dozen times. Not going to bother saying anything when you twist around what I say and make fraudulent claims on my behalf.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    This is pretty specific and amazing advice you're giving me so let's drop the name calling and animosity. (I saved your comment, because it is useful and specific.) Thank you.

    However I do have to say that as specific as it is - and I saved it, due to how useful and specific it is - I am not going to target it for myself.
    And this is exactly what gets you roasted by people.

    - Picks routines that don't fit his goals
    - Tries to act like an expert by adding and changing excercises
    - Ignores perfectly written programs on the forum
    - Complains about being 'trolled' when people point out the flaws in this approach
    - Asks for advice
    - Appreciates advice that could solve his trolling problems
    - Decides not to act on advice
    - Goes back to whining

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    Honest question here: do you think that male models, let's take one in specific, this is someone who does intermittant fasting and eats once per day, let's take him:

    Conrad Bromfield.

    Do you think he works out? (I bet, yes, quite a bit.)

    What do you guess his bodyfat percentage. Go ahead, take a guess.

    He has something like my goal physique.

    Now. Do you think he could make literally a single one of your numbers?

    My guess is no: not one since one of the very specific numbers you have suggested for me.

    What do you think? Just answer truthfully.

    Truthful, specific questions:

    1. Do you think he goes to the gym and works out?

    2. Do you think he could meet a single one of the targets you've set for me?

    Again, I think your answers are "1. I refuse to answer that question" and "2. I refuse to answer that question."

    That's okay.
    Yes again, choosing to attempt to derail my integrity by making responses on my behalf when all I have done so far is answer all your questions up until the point where you started twisting my words around. I'm honestly ready to give up responding here, given that all you do is twist around what I said or ignore what I say unless its something that you want to hear.

    This is about as pointless of a discussion as us trying to predict the molecular mass of Donald trumps left testicle in relation to his right in an attempt to predict his testosterone production,lol.

    Its a completely theoretical and hypothetical and utterly pointless question, there's a million different view points that can be made when we know next to nothing about him. From one side I could say he's 9-10% in some photos, completely lacking in muscle mass, with a physique that resembled mine after 2 years of (improper) training, although maybe my appearance before I even started lifting is a closer comparison to his. So perhaps he works out perhaps he doesn't. On a different standpoint I could say he's just an intentionally malnourished person with good ab genetics. I grew up around folks of this nature who looked identical to him before even hitting puberty, yet alone stepping foot in the gym. See how many different ways I can tie this knot? And yes yes yes, I know, before you try to act all scientific and make a confirmed decision as you already have, once again, my point is we don't know and shouldn't have to be talking about random people. End of the line point, you still have much more muscle to put on and much more fat to lose to get there, how he did it is irrelevant (or rather, it should be irrelevant to you).

    So:

    1) God knows.

    2) No. You don't have to hit those numbers or go past them in order to look that way. This is yet another situation where you have taken what I have said, twisted it around and re-applied it to a scenario that has nothing to do with my original statement. Those numbers were with regard to at what point would I suggest it would be valid to consider adding extra arm work at the end of a leg day.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    it's not a random app, it's the most famous app for structured routines. It's the first app you would find.
    Famous does not equate to optimal.

    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    This part seems like you are saying, "Yes it can work 100%, and you can achieve exactly what you want in the next 90 days using it. But you're still an idiot for doing it that way."

    Please explain this hugely antagonistic language. If it doesn't injure me and I achieve exactly what I want then why are you being so antagonistic about my approach?

    It just seems to me that you and I have totally different goals. Don't you think this might be okay?

    Why would we all have the same goals? It should be pretty obvious that your goals and my goals are totally different. I don't mean, how we get there, but I mean the goals themselves.

    Why shouldn't that be okay?
    Man, you've twisted around almost every last point I've made so far. That is not what I said, go back and read it again. You decided to make your own quote out of what I said by twisting around what I said and regurgitating it in an format that appears to be conflicting, that's all on you, not me. My original statement does not reflect your summary in any way, shape or form. Anything has the *potential* to lead to gains, that does not mean it is optimal or even safe in the long run (insider tip, pretty much all the apps I've seen and 99.99% of the routines posted on random parts of the internet are clueless about optimizing force production around the shoulder, elbow and knee joints in a manner which leads to balanced and optimal muscular development in a safe manner in the long term. Took me about 3 years of daily tendon issues to the point of not being able to open door knobs to understand this, until I came across Davis and his work on Fierce 5). My point was that you running some wacko routine that you found on some app, just because it's famous, does not align with the advice put forth by myself or others here. Any sort of training will induce some sort of a stimulus, that stimulus may or may not get you 100% of the way to where you want to be. I'm saying that your statement that the results of doing things the way you want does not act as valid proof against the advice put out by us, merely because its a structured weight training routine. In no way at all would anyone with half a brain cell summarize this into what you just said. And before you make a remark about injury, just because something hasn't injured you yet, does not mean that it's completely safe. So lets not go there.

    And again, I never once said that we have the same goal, or that we should have the same goal or train in the same manner. I never once told you to train like I do or train like anyone else does. I merely pointed out the pit holes in your approach and how, despite the ridiculous nature of your personal goal, your approach is far more ridiculous than the goal itself. My advice has always been personalized to you. I never advocate for people doing the same things that I do just because it may have worked for me. Again, something that works is not necessarily optimal. My advice has always been based on your goals and your physiology, not mine. So don't chalk all this up to me not wanting to look like a holocaust survivor. These points all are just as valid irrespective of my goals.

    Originally Posted by FatBallz View Post
    I second this. Ditch all the whole scientist act. Find a therapist or learn some basic comprehension skills first OP.
    Redcon1 Tier Operator - T20RSid

    Some lifting stuff (IG) - @rsid_97

    My Growth Stimulus Training journal - https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175699161
    Reply With Quote

  30. #60
    Registered User peterm28's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2017
    Age: 34
    Posts: 354
    Rep Power: 141
    peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50) peterm28 will become famous soon enough. (+50)
    peterm28 is offline
    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    how highly you value the subjective, inaccurate opinions of random girls as well
    yes, "subjective, inaccurate opinions of random girls" is the only thing I value actually. If I could say "yes" to instantly looking like a 10 out of 10 in the eyes of 99% of girls I'd say yes without even seeing what I'm agreeing to. I don't care about anything else. Those are my goals, yep, you've hit the nail on the head.

    What's wrong with that goal? I think there's nothing wrong with it. I've been making good progress toward that goal. (I have sex, yay.)

    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    if that's what you care about then go whatever the hell you want to do
    That's fine. This thread is my report where I posted before and after pictures after following a specific program that I described. Yes, I'm going to continue to do what I want, though it will be a different program now. If you don't want to see the results of my next program if I announce them, then don't click on my threads where I announce any results.


    The goal of this thread was to share my personal results. I got a bit derailed by people saying there's no difference in the past 90 days. I felt like they were taking away from the informational value of my post, based on my subjective experience and the reaction of people around me. They were spreading active misinformation based on my personal experience living in this body, wearing my own clothes, and interacting with the other gender. I don't like someone coming into my posts and writing misinformation. Period. It really bothered me.

    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    So:

    1) God knows.

    2) No. You don't have to hit those numbers or go past them in order to look that way.
    Thank you for the clear answers. I looked it up, the answer to 1 is "yes, definitely". here is the article - https://blog.windowshoponline.com/th...ne-meal-a-day/ and he says:

    Say you’re prepping for an underwear or bathing suit shoot?

    I still keep the same diet definitely. If anything, it’s the workout that I’ll ramp up. Do more reps on certain things. Running six miles on the treadmill, then sit ups. The best thing for me is calisthenics, which is using your body’s weight. Instead of looking for a gym when I’m traveling. I use the floor, I use my backpack or my luggage, for weights… or I just have my stretch bands. I can use them for my biceps or my back. They’re the best. Because when you use weights your body relies on outside sources, so you can easily lose that tone. But using your own body’s weight it’s coming form the inside. So it stays longer, it works better. And to get nice obliques and that V-line, when you’re standing up just do a little twist. A side plank, kinda.
    So lookit that. He runs 6 miles on the treadmill. AKA ... altogether now .. starts with an automobile of some kind, a vehicle, wait a bus, motorcycle? oh no just a CAR - o mio! DIO. Cardio. That's it. That's what he does. He does 6 miles of running. Cardio cardio cardio.

    And his 1 rep max is a stretch band.

    So I think we have our answer to his routine: no, he isn't able to meet your numbers.

    Famous does not equate to optimal.
    You know what equals optimal? Me saying, "Yep, I wanna look like that" and girls validating me. That's it. That's my optimal.

    Also no injuries, that's important.

    let's keep this on topic please, you go back to giving very useful information here, let's drop the BS and focus on this:

    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    (insider tip, pretty much all the apps I've seen and 99.99% of the routines posted on random parts of the internet are clueless about optimizing force production around the shoulder, elbow and knee joints in a manner which leads to balanced and optimal muscular development in a safe manner in the long term. Took me about 3 years of daily tendon issues to the point of not being able to open door knobs to understand this, until I came across Davis and his work on Fierce 5).
    I'm sorry to hear that. I'm actually quite concerned about form when doing lifts, because I know that many bodybuilders (who, of course, do much more weight than I ever will) have very serious injuries. I think this can be mitigated to a certain extent by form.

    I am sorry to hear that you had daily tendon issues. Could you be a bit more specific about which exercises caused them?

    Here are the basic exercises my app lists, happy to hear your thoughts about any of them:

    The exercises the "J" app picked for me:

    There are 3 days, Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Monday is Chest and Triceps; Wednesday is Back and Biceps; and Friday is legs:

    Monday: Chest and Triceps
    • barbell bench press (3 sets of 10 reps, 120 seconds rest);
    • Barbell Incline Bench press: 3 sets of 10 reps (rest: 120s);
    • Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3 sets of 8 reps (rest: 90 seconds);
    • Dumbbell Lateral Raise 3 sets of 15 reps, 60 seconds rest.;
    • Cable One Arm Tricep Extension (it shows a pushdown): 3 sets of 15 reps: rest: 60 seconds.

    Wednesday is Back and Biceps
    • barbell deadlift (3 sets of 8 reps, 120 seconds rest);
    • seated machine row: 3 sets of 10 reps (rest: 120s);
    • Pull Ups 3 sets of 8 reps (rest: 90 seconds);
    • Barbell Shrug: 3 sets of 15 reps Rest: 90 seconds;
    • Barbell preacher curl: 3 sets of 12 reps Rest: 60 seconds.
    • Dumbbell alternate hammer curl: 3 sets of 12 reps Rest: 60 seconds.


    Friday: Leg day
    • Barbell squat (3 sets of 10 reps, 120 seconds rest);
    • Leg press: 3 sets of 12 reps (rest: 120s);
    • Leg extensions 3 sets of 12 reps (rest: 90 seconds);
    • Seated leg curl: 3 sets of 12 reps, 90 seconds rest.;
    • Bodyweight lunge: 3 sets of 20 reps rest: 60 seconds.
    • standing calf raises: 3 sets of 15 reps rest: 60 seconds.
    • step machine: 15 minutes.


    I am still developing my plan, but I think I will do all of these on every respective day; however, when I have extra time I plan to add a bit to them (without removing anything). I plan on making the following additions:

    On chest and triceps day I plan on adding chest flys, overhead tricep extensions using the cables, and using a tricep isolation machine; I plan to use a chest press machine as well, since I can use it safely with more weight than a barbell benchpress.

    This day also is a good time for abs since there are no abs or obliques listed in the above program: so I plan on using an ab isolation machine, and to do 2-3 sets of 15 reps of a kind of bicycle situp where I hold weight while doing it; leg raises where I'm suspended on my arms (maybe 2-3 sets of 15); and supine leg raises with some weights on my feet; for obliques I plan to add something called the woodchopper exercise described here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAplQXk3dkU maybe 2-3 sets of 15. And finally some inclined situps with bodyweight or maybe holding extra weight, I haven't decided.

    As you can see the biceps day program it came up with includes barbell shrugs, but I plan to add shrugs with the biggest dumbbells I can pick up, as many as I can do, since that seems a safe exercise. I also plan to add a bicep isolation machine exercise, follows by concentration curls, since those aren't listed.

    Back and biceps day also doesn't include any pulldowns (just pullups) so I plan to add the pulldown machine, haven't decided on the reps.

    On leg day I will add weights to the bodyweight lunges (i.e. use more than just bodyweight); I think I may increase the stepper machine time, not sure. It's the only cardio listed in the program.

    I also think that there is room for rear delt isolation exercises but I haven't decided which one: https://vshred.com/blog/rear-delt-exercises/

    My basic approach I think will be to do all of the exercises that are suggested in the program, and then to add to them what I think is missing or do some more to failure, when I have time.

    I forgot to add, that for the past 90 days I have been using a hand gripper (the heaviest one I could find) for 100 reps on each hand after I get home from an exercise (it goes really fast). When I started the program I couldn't do 100, only just 50 on each hand but I worked up to 100 no probelm. (One of the many indications I had that I got stronger through the last 90 days - I can also do pullups whereas I couldn't at the start.)

    I've also frequently been doing towel twists for forearm development.

    Finally, I sometimes I do wrist curls and may add them to one of the days just for completeness, since girls are all about those forearms. I think forearms are worth targeting, though they do get worked out from the suggested workouts.

    If you see anything dangerous about anything I've just listed, or anything that would cause tendon issues, please do let me know. I don't want to do anything that will cause me tendon problems.

    Originally Posted by rsid97 View Post
    My advice has always been personalized to you. I never advocate for people doing the same things that I do just because it may have worked for me. Again, something that works is not necessarily optimal. My advice has always been based on your goals and your physiology, not mine.
    Thanks, I appreciate it.
    Last edited by peterm28; 02-03-2020 at 08:48 AM.
    Reply With Quote

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts