The Truth About Kettlebells

[OldFartTom]

Scared to mention it, but those little girls may be a lot tougher and more capable than me

[supramax]

Scared to mention it, but those little girls may be a lot tougher and more capable than me

At doing what they're doing and trained for, for sure, but what do you call an exercise or exercise weight that you can do for 178 continuous repetitions? What does Rippetoe call it?

Anyways, did you try the swing as a warmup to your deadlift?

[supramax]

Technically it's a "powersnatch", but "arm assisted" doesn't do you any justice to say "little girls, doing hundreds of reps" the technical skill of a snatch/powersnatch shouldn't involve the arms at all, usually big overly muscle strongman do "arm assisted" Olympic style moves.

What's the difference between little girls doing hundreds of reps and tiny girls doing that?

[Garage Rat]

One point i will agree with Supramax is the crossfiit American swing is a lot of arm to get it over head and a squat style instead of hinge style.
They call it a snatch though but a swing.
I was taught any swing that comes past the shoulders that a KB snatch should be done instead.

[OldFartTom]

Anyways, did you try the swing as a warmup to your deadlift?

Yes thanks, I did on Wednesday morning but not this morning (gym very crowded, unusual for early on Friday). I only did a few with very light kettle bell because I'd no idea how many or how heavy so wanted to do too few than too many. I'll definitely repeat a few times and up the dosage slightly each time to get a feel for what's right

[supramax]

Yes thanks, I did on Wednesday morning but not this morning (gym very crowded, unusual for early on Friday). I only did a few with very light kettle bell because I'd no idea how many or how heavy so wanted to do too few than too many. I'll definitely repeat a few times and up the dosage slightly each time to get a feel for what's right

I pyramid the weight up 20 lbs at a time until I'm swinging about 100 lbs less than my first deadlift set. Before I did it that particular way, I'd only do one set of deadlifts. Now, I pyramid the deadlift weight up each set until I can't get 5 reps. I only do one deadlift session a week, though, so I don't think that progression would work too well for you.

[GrouchyUSMC]

What's the difference between little girls doing hundreds of reps and tiny girls doing that?

I think your ego is getting in the way here a bit. You’d be surprised how tough those 10 minutes really are.

[GrouchyUSMC]

One point i will agree with Supramax is the crossfiit American swing is a lot of arm to get it over head and a squat style instead of hinge style.
They call it a snatch though but a swing.
I was taught any swing that comes past the shoulders that a KB snatch should be done instead.

I’m of the same mind too, I cringe seeing overhead swings.

[supramax]

I think your ego is getting in the way here a bit. You’d be surprised how tough those 10 minutes really are.

Aside from the fact that you're wrong, you totally missed the point of my comment.

[LWW]

UPDATE: Well I did 10-swings EMOM for 10 minutes with a 24kg (two hands) in which I was in shape for (I could pass the talk test) and broke a nice little sweat.

I immediately went to squats and Hell ya, squats never felt so easy, 1 rep warm-ups was all I really needed. (I'll update my journal later-on) but I hit PR in reps in the squat with 335# (not much to most, but I'm always too banged up to get that for reps).

The KB's were like therapy, I did well on deads too, but looking forward to mixing some things up with these KB warm-ups.

Drinks on me tonight!!! YEE HAA!

[AlBHappy]

Been doing at least 80% of my workouts with kettlebells for 10 + years. They are a fantastic tool. The only thing I believe they're not good for is chest development.

There is a HUGE learning curve. I go to PF a couple of days a week to do pullups dips and some machine chest work. They have kettlebells there up to 30 lb. NO ONE KNOWS HOW TO CORRECTLY DO A SWING. Too much squat, using their shoulders to raise the bell. I am tempted to offer a class in how to do them.

Most of my work these days is using 45's and doing complexes and chains. Did the ROP up to 32kg and used to be able to snatch it for reps. Passed the 5 minute snatch test and did 160 at 10 minutes. Those days are over. Once I hit 49/50, I realized I needed to dial it down.

StrongFirst has ruined all the fun in kettlebells with Simple and Sinister/A+A/Bent Presses etc. I fell in love with them because I could get cardio and strength done at the same time. I loved the variety of the different movements.

When I only have 20 minutes this is my favorite
Snatch, L x 5 R x 5 put bell down, to the top of the minute, repeat for 20 rounds.

[GrouchyUSMC]

Pat Flynn has some great complexes. Ivan Denisov is great to watch to feel weak. Close to 17,000 pounds of volume in 10 minutes.

[keyboardworkout]

[AlBHappy]

Pat Flynn has some great complexes. Ivan Denisov is great to watch to feel weak. Close to 17,000 pounds of volume in 10 minutes.

Mutant. Pat's great, respect his hustle. I like More Kettlebell Muscle by Geoff Neupert who guests posts on here from time to time. You can find it free if you run a search on it.

[OldFartTom]

Absolutely!!

KB's are also an excellent way to teach someone new how to snatch and clean. No other movement can teach how to pop the hips like KBs do.

Although I'm still dabbling with a few swings before DL, or last session a few afterwards for a little light volume, I did find it easier to visualise crisply pop my hips under the bar in DL.

Not sure if this is a poor form issue or as expected, but I'm feeling the in swing in my back... but not right down low, in the upper lower back (if that makes sense). is this my weirdness, or to be expected?

[LWW]

Although I'm still dabbling with a few swings before DL, or last session a few afterwards for a little light volume, I did find it easier to visualise crisply pop my hips under the bar in DL.

Not sure if this is a poor form issue or as expected, but I'm feeling the in swing in my back... but not right down low, in the upper lower back (if that makes sense). is this my weirdness, or to be expected?

Doing KB swings and because of the bottom load of the bell your stopping the negative, this makes it eccentric part of the movement which is something very different than dead lifts, this is going to target the lower back as you described.

[supramax]

Although I'm still dabbling with a few swings before DL, or last session a few afterwards for a little light volume, I did find it easier to visualise crisply pop my hips under the bar in DL.

Not sure if this is a poor form issue or as expected, but I'm feeling the in swing in my back... but not right down low, in the upper lower back (if that makes sense). is this my weirdness, or to be expected?

Check out this:

https://www.bodybuilding.com/content...ell-swing.html

and heed #3 (and this is crucial) in 'Back to the Start'---'The Starting Position'.

[OldFartTom]

Check out this:

https://www.bodybuilding.com/content...ell-swing.html

and heed #3 (and this is crucial) in 'Back to the Start'---'The Starting Position'.

Think about performing a vertical jump. But instead of placing your arms outside your legs, move them between your legs. However—and this is crucial—keep the angle of your body steady. Only move your arms.

Thanks - I'm not doing it that way I'm trying to deadlift it a bit, concentrating completely on the hinge and arms as entirely secondary. I may be getting the balance wrong

[supramax]

Think about performing a vertical jump. But instead of placing your arms outside your legs, move them between your legs. However—and this is crucial—keep the angle of your body steady. Only move your arms.

Thanks - I'm not doing it that way I'm trying to deadlift it a bit, concentrating completely on the hinge and arms as entirely secondary. I may be getting the balance wrong

No problemo, dude. As far as I'm concerned, the cause of back pain from doing kettlebell swings, originates in not keeping the angle of your torso completely steady from the time you hinge just before the kettlebell is about to smash your jewels, until the hips start moving forward. It's not because I read it, but because I experimented with changing the angle as per above and suffered the consequences.

[RestoringTally]

Your descriptions make me cringe.

Although I'm still dabbling with a few swings before DL, or last session a few afterwards for a little light volume, I did find it easier to visualise crisply pop my hips under the bar in DL.

Not sure if this is a poor form issue or as expected, but I'm feeling the in swing in my back... but not right down low, in the upper lower back (if that makes sense). is this my weirdness, or to be expected?

I fail to see how anyone could visualize their hips popping during a deadlift. Deadlifts are not ballistic movements. The value of doing KB swings immediately before DLs is to warm up the posterior chain and stimulate the CNS for using the posterior chain.

Think about performing a vertical jump. But instead of placing your arms outside your legs, move them between your legs. However—and this is crucial—keep the angle of your body steady. Only move your arms.

Thanks - I'm not doing it that way I'm trying to deadlift it a bit, concentrating completely on the hinge and arms as entirely secondary. I may be getting the balance wrong

Also, KB deadlifts are totally different than KB swings. If anything, a KB swing is analogous to hip thrusters, except done ballistically. At no time should the KB be lifted during a swing. The KB's upward movement is a result of the hips moving forward, forcing the bell to move ballistically (the bell is thrown forward by the hips and, because the bell is tethered by the arms, the KB moves in an arc to the top position).

[LWW]

As far as I'm concerned, the cause of back pain from doing kettlebell swings, originates

Is he talking about back pain or DOMS ? If someone is not used to doing this, they may get DOMS, or is that against the law now?

For me, my core can handle these light bells, it'll get interesting though when I start going around 40kg.

I did two rounds with 32kg on my second time, the top of my forearms felt alittle DOMMSIE, oh the horror!😈

Whats the next weight up from 32kg? Will through in a round with that guy.

[supramax]

Is he talking about back pain or DOMS ? If someone is not used to doing this, they may get DOMS, or is that against the law now?

For me, my core can handle these light bells, it'll get interesting though when I start going around 40kg.

I did two rounds with 32kg on my second time, the top of my forearms felt alittle DOMMSIE, oh the horror!😈

Whats the next weight up from 32kg? Will through in a round with that guy.

I am talking about injuring your back. Period!

I don't know what the standard weight jumps are. Mine are 55-75-95-105 and 120 lbs.

[OldFartTom]

Is he talking about back pain or DOMS ? ...

Neither, I'm taking it so so slowly and building gradually from nothing (think cautious and then go more cautious than that). So not pain and not DOMS, just where I feel it working. But if I did double... I think I would have DOMS in that area.

Your descriptions make me cringe... ..I fail to see how anyone could visualize their hips popping during a deadlift. Deadlifts are not ballistic movements... ...

part of this is my terrible choice of description - I'd never make the grade to coach anyone on movement, so I don't . Yes clearly as soon as you load a bar DL's not going to be ballistic (and shouldn't be even if it were possible), but I did hear a coaching cue (can't remember where) that you should visualise quickly getting hips under the bar on a DL while you are about to lift off, rather than visualise just lifting it up from floor. It was something to pre-prime the mind even if it's not reality. Maybe this is nonsense but much of what churns about my head is noisy chaotic nonsense anyway.

[LWW]

Neither, So not pain and not DOMS

That’s not fun, shoot, I need DOMS or else I won’t even want to drink, DOMS makes the drink go down smooth and fast, For some liquid courage.

[AlBHappy]

Is he talking about back pain or DOMS ? If someone is not used to doing this, they may get DOMS, or is that against the law now?

For me, my core can handle these light bells, it'll get interesting though when I start going around 40kg.

I did two rounds with 32kg on my second time, the top of my forearms felt alittle DOMMSIE, oh the horror!😈

Whats the next weight up from 32kg? Will through in a round with that guy.

The in between bell is a 36. 40 is a pretty big jump. How many reps are you doing a set? If you go heavy, leave the reps at around 10-15. I also recommend using chalk on your fingers.

In regard to the deadlift vs. the swing. The similarity is dropping the hips back and activating the hamstrings. When you see beginners doing the swing there are always 2 errors.

They squat too much and the bell passes through closer to their knees than crotch.
Lifting the bell with your arms. The height of the bell should be based on the hip snap.

[GrouchyUSMC]

Whats the next weight up from 32kg? Will through in a round with that guy.

They typically go up by 4kg increments, so 36. It is fun to test your strength with some much heavier swings from time to time though. Best for me so far is knocking out a set of 10 with a 56kg (although that took everything I had).

[JamSumo]

On my cardio day instead of the boring treadmill, I did 10 kettlebell swings/10 sets which are 100 swings. In between a few sets of swings, I did pull-ups. The next day I felt muscles ache that I never felt before in my hams, upper chest, and back. The swings work tons of core muscles from what I understand and burn more calories than a treadmill. It took me 30 minutes to complete the workout. Well worth it, may drop a day of cardio for this routine.

[LWW]

The in between bell is a 36. 40 is a pretty big jump. How many reps are you doing a set? If you go heavy, leave the reps at around 10-15. I also recommend using chalk on your fingers.

In regard to the deadlift vs. the swing. The similarity is dropping the hips back and activating the hamstrings. When you see beginners doing the swing there are always 2 errors.

They squat too much and the bell passes through closer to their knees than crotch.
Lifting the bell with your arms. The height of the bell should be based on the hip snap.

I’m doing 11 - 12 rounds of 10 (100- 120reps) and while I’m strong enough to go heavier than 32kg the instructor already told me to stop anticipating the down portion of the swing, meaning I’m breaking my hips too early, let the bell to that part . So I’m focusing more on doing more rounds keeping it light which really helps me squat better, my first squat sets are easily 175# after doing these swings, no aches at all.

[Garage Rat]

I tell student to wait for the arm/arms to almost or make contact with the upper body and then hip hinge.
It has to be timed just right and look like one even flowing movement.
On hard style swing we actually engage the lats and upper arm and get sort of a hike pushing back.
So if you have a good hike you should have an equal return of the KB.
Good luck.

[LWW]

I tell student to wait for the arm/arms to almost or make contact with the upper body and then hip hinge.
It has to be timed just right and look like one even flowing movement.
On hard style swing we actually engage the lats and upper arm and get sort of a hike pushing back.
So if you have a good hike you should have an equal return of the KB.
Good luck.

Yes, this makes sense and helps. Cool!