Starting strength sucks

[Kirra]

All of that is incorrect and pointless.

Splits are not for beginners. Period. You have no sense of aesthetics and what body sculpting is.

The fuk are you on about? You can easily program a beginner on an upper lower/push pull split 3-4 times a week and they will be making great gains.

No it’s not common knowledge there’s like a handful of you who spew this nonsense.

Literally nobody thinks that that lifts. Only people who don’t lift make fun of SS and it’s a meme because of its popularity to counter argue and downplay it.

SS is still the best program and all good beginner programs are basically variations of basic core SS

Taking about certain details being odd like press grip is fine but don’t act like the program isn’t what everyone should be basically doing for most efficient gains and most ideal body transformation style.

I can literally make you a program in 30 minutes that looks nothing like SS and it will produce better results (hypertrophy) for the vast majority of lifters.

If you do deadlifts and bench your chest and upper body is definately improving. That’s a lie.

If you’re eating proper calories and protein and progressive overloading squat, dead, bench press and standing press your upper body will grow, period.

You should have great shoulders and chest and v taper if you are doing the program properly and not over training and eating right.

You're going to have great shoulders, chest and a v taper from what? The 4.5 sets a week for chest and shoulders and zero sets for lats?

Brb making massive upper body gains from a volume that is lower than most peoples maintenance volume.

Brb worrying about overtraining with 9 sets of squats a week

Brb "eating right" entails something that would get just about any nutritionist to ****ing rip their hair out in frustration

Brb being the worst fukking poster on the misc.

Brb negged, *******.

[KingSWRV]

wow, now you are a real insulter

there are way better, balanced programs than SS, like FIerce 5 which does not neglect lats, upper back etc.

And all I did was negging SS because of form advice.

SS is about igniting your progressive overload programming and keeping it flowing for as long and as heavy as possible.

All your results flow in off that gimmick because those results are exponentially better than anything else you could be doing for progress.

So for you to worry about back shows you don’t get the basics.

-Starting/restarting
-intermediate
-Advanced
-elite/sport specific

The difference between phase 1 and 2 is what gets people most confused because they try to do phase 2 in phase 1.

What you’re worried about is outside the scope of the programming. You back will be fine just from military press and deads and even bench and squats up until the point where you start to plateau in the total body stimulus.

By then you have a strong base with which to go intermediate with.

In intermediate you can do whatever the fuk you want but you can’t look good without doing SS or equivalent first.

You can’t skip the first phase or you will just plain not look as good as you could. Period.

And you shouldn’t be trying to look good in the first phase. It’s only a setup for the second phase.

[tvr123]

Everyone does stupid chit when they first start lifting, no matter what program you do. Op most likely did retarded **** regardless of the starting strength program.

Narrow grip ohp is legit for most people though, but that means shoulder width/forearms parallel (stacked joints)

And nobody says you can't high bar squat on starting strength.

Also most people stay on it for way too long. Once you've reset three times, get on something more varied and with more volume.

Simples

[Kirra]

Even though he's basically considered a meme and a joke, Jason Blaha's ICF 5x5 program is actually pretty good and much better than this. Trains your whole body.

I get that you don't need much isolation as a newbie but training like this will just get you a fat ass and nothing else.

I just checked out his 5x5 and it's actually surprisingly decent. Reps.

[messomi]

also rippetoe never said to press with a narrow grip he just made that up

[KingSWRV]

The fuk are you on about? You can easily program a beginner on an upper lower/push pull split 3-4 times a week and they will be making great gains.



I can literally make you a program in 30 minutes that looks nothing like SS and it will produce better results (hypertrophy) for the vast majority of lifters.



You're going to have great shoulders, chest and a v taper from what? The 4.5 sets a week for chest and shoulders and zero sets for lats?

Brb making massive upper body gains from a volume that is lower than most peoples maintenance volume.

Brb worrying about overtraining with 9 sets of squats a week

Brb "eating right" entails something that would get just about any nutritionist to ****ing rip their hair out in frustration

Brb being the worst fukking poster on the misc.

Brb negged, *******.

No your theoretical plan would not look better.

1. It would look flat and drawn on top of a weak physique muscles. There would be gains but they would be parallel universe gains that are uglier and flatter than what SS would sculpt them with.

2. They probably wouldn’t be able to keep up the progressive overload upward trajectory for as long or as efficiently ultimately resulting in a lower plateu point.

But you would think you’re doing something good by getting them more immediate but less beast-thetic results.

[KingSWRV]

I just checked out his 5x5 and it's actually surprisingly decent. Reps.

You don’t know what is or isn’t decent.

You’re one of those dumb fascist group think euros that doesn’t think for themselves and you just regurgitate what you believe in like a biased tribal mentality.

You see somone claim something and you agree with it but you don’t know fundamentally why. You just ape what other people you think are cool for whatever reason say and think it’s true because someone you like said it.

[KingSWRV]

also rippetoe never said to press with a narrow grip he just made that up

They just try to chit on it because it’s popular. To them it’s what being edgy means.

But in reality they are confusing would be searchers of information with all their negative bro science nonsense.

[Kirra]

No your theoretical plan would not look better.

1. It would look flat and drawn on top of a weak physique muscles. There would be gains but they would be parallel universe gains that are uglier and flatter than what SS would sculpt them with.

2. They probably wouldn’t be able to keep up the progressive overload upward trajectory for as long or as efficiently ultimately resulting in a lower plateu point.

But you would think you’re doing something good by getting them more immediate but less beast-thetic results.

I can't. You're either trolling or you actually believe your own bullchit. I'm not sure which is worse.

[batmanman]

Wish I could deadlift 600lbs

[Johnez]

Wasn't this program intended to get athletes (specifically football players) in shape and ready? Hence the focus on uh useful lifts (squat, cleans, press) versus "aesthetic" lifts (curls, side lateral raises, etc). It's a beginner program for mass, harder to knock over a 300 pound guy on OMAD than Chad with his abs and biceps. Only supposed to last 3-6 months. Almost every knock on SS is totally missing the point. Lol at this thread.

[KingSWRV]

I can't. You're either trolling or you actually believe your own bullchit. I'm not sure which is worse.

Typical Euro reaction, can’t formulate logic or data for evidence beyond your hive mind group think.

You decided it’s true so there’s no way it can’t be true right? It’s what they think so you think it too right?

And if something thinks something else off the beaten bath you dismiss it as crazy right?

Sounds about right for people with that beady eye communist logic mentality in EU.

Also lol at EU lifting knowledge in general... talk about gimmicks and nonsense.

[BigDeeps01]

Typical Euro reaction, can’t formulate logic or data for evidence beyond your hive mind group think.

You decided it’s true so there’s no way it can’t be true right? It’s what they think so you think it too right?

And if something thinks something else off the beaten bath you dismiss it as crazy right?

Sounds about right for people with that beady eye communist logic mentality in EU.

Also lol at EU lifting knowledge in general... talk about gimmicks and nonsense.

So what do your lifts look like, big strong SS boy?

Also, strong neg lol

[KingSWRV]

Wasn't this program intended to get athletes (specifically football players) in shape and ready? Hence the focus on uh useful lifts (squat, cleans, press) versus "aesthetic" lifts (curls, side lateral raises, etc). It's a beginner program for mass, harder to knock over a 300 pound guy on OMAD than Chad with his abs and biceps. Only supposed to last 3-6 months. Almost every knock on SS is totally missing the point. Lol at this thread.

It’s almost as if... many football players also have aesthetic physiques from the powerlifting.

Hmmmm

It’s almost as if.....

Powerlifting and aesthetics are related.... !!!?

[KingSWRV]

So what do your lifts look like, big strong SS boy?

Also, strong neg lol

I don’t usually neg so you know I’m worked up lol

And I’m more going by the progress I remember making when I was first experimenting with all this and remembering how insanely exponentially more effective the results of progressive overload and programming were compared to anything else I touched upon and how that is the only thing that truly matters at the start for beginner to use as a tool for total body development.

Until you taste the results for yourself it’s hard to understand it. But once you do it’s clear there is no other comparable alternative.

I used to squat over 3 plates ATG while being at 170-180 5’11

[BigDeeps01]

I don’t usually neg so you know I’m worked up lol

I want to know how big and strong you are from SS

What are your lifts

I do not appreciate the neg simply from disagreeing with you on a program, so at the very least I want to see you back it up with something

[tvr123]

I want to know how big and strong you are from SS

What are your lifts

I do not appreciate the neg simply from disagreeing with you on a program, so at the very least I want to see you back it up with something

I don't think anyone gets big and strong from SS seeing as it's a beginner's program. No doubt every beginner can get bigger and stronger on it though, that's for sure

[KingSWRV]

I want to know how big and strong you are from SS

What are your lifts

I do not appreciate the neg simply from disagreeing with you on a program, so at the very least I want to see you back it up with something

https://www.instagram.com/p/mpK9silT...d=ymvg9b7292rx

Example of ab and v taper shape. Not huge but the ratios are right and alpha in shapes.

I didn’t do splits and masturbate my little muscles I only went total body and for the full muscle separation.

All the results came from progressive overload via adding weight. I never even overloaded volume or sets. Just simple adding weight and doing the same few workouts and it got me more hot girls IRL than you can ever imagine

Squatting about 350
Bench about 190
Dead about 400

Started off with 65 lbs on squat and worked up to 350

Started off with 45 on bench and worked up to 190

Started off with 90 on dead and worked up to 4 plates

And damn I look good. Permanent results too. Not like split workout tier muscles that go away quickly.

I can go home gym lift for 2 or 3 days and it all comes flooding back cuz my base is correct and I have permanently beastly muscle memory.

I transformed into this.

[tvr123]

https://www.instagram.com/p/mpK9silT...d=ymvg9b7292rx

[BigDeeps01]

https://www.instagram.com/p/mpK9silT...d=ymvg9b7292rx

Example of ab and v taper shape. Not huge but the ratios are right and alpha in shapes.

I didn’t do splits and masturbate my little muscles I only went total body and for the full muscle separation.

All the results came from progressive overload via adding weight. I never even overloaded volume or sets. Just simple adding weight and doing the same few workouts and it got me more hot girls IRL than you can ever imagine

Squatting about 350
Bench about 190
Dead about 400

Started off with 65 lbs on squat and worked up to 350

Started off with 45 on bench and worked up to 190

Started off with 90 on dead and worked up to 4 plates

And damn I look good. Permanent results too. Not like split workout tier muscles that go away quickly.

I can go home gym lift for 2 or 3 days and it all comes flooding back cuz my base is correct and I have permanently beastly muscle memory.

I transformed into this.

You would have got just as good, if not (and more probably) way better results with an upper/lower split or a push/pull split.

Certainly you'd be benching more than 190 with a better program than SS

And what does "muscles that go away from a BB split" even mean lol

As for getting girls, you could have never worked out a day in your life and just had a good diet to stay lean and got girls. That's irrelevant

[Ratfish]

lol

is calling babyslayer "babylover" a freudian slip or what?

[Kirra]

I legit chuckled. Dude is doing that Hunchback from Notre Dame pose.

Lmao.

[sooby]

Yes...actually you can? I can't tell if you're trolling. It's like you haven't researched anything since 2008. Tonnes of literature on the subject these days. Not to mention the countless examples of people lifting a million different ways while being very successful and injury free.

He's actually right OP, and he's clearly done his research where you haven't. Form surprisingly isn't hugely correlated with injury despite what many people think. Yes, if you deadlift normally and then suddenly go for a 1RM attempt and cat back the chit out it, it's likely to get you injured. However if this has been your form that you are used to for a very long time, your body has already made the adaptations and likely isn't very injurious. It's because you have trained your body to lift that way over time, the key here is deviation from normal form. I recommend reading this article as well as this podcast, it'll likely change your mind OP. In fact, nocebo-ing yourself into the erroneous thinking that any degree of spinal flexion will snap your chit up has a higher chance of snapping your chit up rather than actually just flexing your spine.

https://www.painscience.com/articles...-your-back.php
https://www.strongerbyscience.com/podcast-episode-22/

not trolling. Though weighted spine flexion is one way ticket to lumbar herniations, period. It's simple biomechanics.

Yeah, I have seen chinese weightlifters doing some light rounded back SLDL's, but they are freaks anyway.

No it isn't and evidence actually doesn't suggest that because you do "weighted" spinal flexion you will be likely to suffer from herniated disks. Almost everybody has some degree of flexion on their deadlifts. The spine isn't ever perfectly neutral. Are you saying that if your back is flexed say 5 or 10 degrees more than neutral it's snap city? Strongmen lift with flexed spines all the time when lifting atlas stones. Nobody is snapping off their spines left and right let's be serious here. Do you know why they are doing light-rounded back SLDL's? Believe it or not flexion of the lower-back can be trained and strengthened. The same way you can do it with back extensions. The key is to progressively increase your range of motion and weight over time. It'll strengthen your back at that specific angle and likely reduce your chance of snapping your chit up. It's part of how I overcame some of the back pain i've been experiencing.

Not defending Rippetoe or anything but you just sound like an angry idiot. Starting Strength is a beginner program for those looking to gain strength. Literally, it's in the name STARTING, STRENGTH. It's not meant to be run forever and isn't meant to get you aesthetic in 6 months lol. There are other better programs sure but if you got fat then it's your fault. GOMAD is for skinny twinks that have trouble eating and gaining weight. I overhead press with a narrow grip. Literally zero problems. The key here is to have your elbows stacked with your shoulders and wrists. It's an okay introduction to somebody new to lifting weights, and wants to get stronger at the compound movements, that's basically it. Now I wouldn't necessarily do lowbar like Rip does it but low bar squats are a perfectly valid technique depending on the goal. People have different leverages and different stances, grip widths, etc are going to be better for some people more than others and one isn't inherently more injurious than the other. Good form is relative and looks different in different people.

Either you are trolling because you usually have some decent advice, or are just plain ignorant, misinformed or retarded. Can't really tell.

[KingSWRV]

You would have got just as good, if not (and more probably) way better results with an upper/lower split or a push/pull split.

Certainly you'd be benching more than 190 with a better program than SS

And what does "muscles that go away from a BB split" even mean lol

As for getting girls, you could have never worked out a day in your life and just had a good diet to stay lean and got girls. That's irrelevant

There were other years where I floated around from Nautilus machines to try to workout specific body parts and I always just stagnated and was in limbo. Energy wise I was never consistent before SS programming benefits.
My CNS wasn’t stimulated enough, my individual muscles were making tiny increments of slow progress.

I was also only getting artificial gains they weren’t functional for power head to tow.

It was a lot of masturbation. So no, I highly doubt a split (which is an intermediate method) gets you to intermediate faster than a novice method does.

Now if I switch to a split AFTER having done this, that’s another story and I would agree with you there. It would take all the base I have installed and blow it up even more and enhance what I built, but the maxed out big 3 plateu base has to already be there.

But doing a split would not have prepared me to do a split better than plateauing on the big 3
Would prepare me to switch to splits.

It’s just basic physiology. Did you know for example our rib cage expands when we lift heavy compounds all the time? And the CNS response is epic. Nothing compares.

[BigDeeps01]

There were other years where I floated around from Nautilus machines to try to workout specific body parts and I always just stagnated and was in limbo. Energy wise I was never consistent before SS programming benefits.
My CNS wasn’t stimulated enough, my individual muscles were making tiny increments of slow progress.

I was also only getting artificial gains they weren’t functional for power head to tow.

It was a lot of masturbation. So no, I highly doubt a split (which is an intermediate method) gets you to intermediate faster than a novice method does.

Now if I switch to a split AFTER having done this, that’s another story and I would agree with you there. It would take all the base I have installed and blow it up even more and enhance what I built, but the maxed out big 3 plateu base has to already be there.

But doing a split would not have prepared me to do a split better than plateauing on the big 3
Would prepare me to switch to splits.

It’s just basic physiology. Did you know for example our rib cage expands when we lift heavy compounds all the time? And the CNS response is epic. Nothing compares.

It makes no sense to ignore muscle groups as a beginner, I'm sorry. Zero sense

I'm with you about the heavy compounds. I've always done heavy compounds, no matter what my focus or training split

But to ignore rows, ignore rear delt raises / face pulls, ignore pull-ups / pulldowns, ignore curls, ignore tricep extensions / pushdowns, ignore calves, ignore core work, ignore oblique work, ignore hamstring curls / RDL work, etc is just plain stupid. Even as a beginner. What do you benefit from by ignoring those things?

I got really strong and really fast on an upper / lower type split as a beginner, without ignoring those things. It's more optimal IMO

I would probably do a 4 day upper/lower split with linear progression, hitting all compounds, as a beginner

[sooby]

It makes no sense to ignore muscle groups as a beginner, I'm sorry. Zero sense

I'm with you about the heavy compounds. I've always done heavy compounds, no matter what my focus or training split

But to ignore rows, ignore rear delt raises / face pulls, ignore pull-ups / pulldowns, ignore curls, ignore tricep extensions / pushdowns, ignore calves, ignore core work, ignore oblique work, ignore hamstring curls / RDL work, etc is just plain stupid. Even as a beginner. What do you benefit from by ignoring those things?

I got really strong and really fast on an upper / lower type split as a beginner, without ignoring those things. It's more optimal IMO

I would probably do a 4 day upper/lower split with linear progression, hitting all compounds, as a beginner

i think as a beginner it's easy to get caught up in doing all the isolation movements under the sun and put all of your energy into those instead of the compound work which'll get you the bulk of your gains. It's difficult to focus on every single muscle at a time with enough volume, i mean you can say that chest flies are needed for the pec stretch, lateral raises for side delts, cleans for explosive strength etc, etc and before you know you have 12 different exercises everyday you feel like you need to do all the time. just focus on the basics and expand over time

it isn't like starting strength is meant to be run forever, just gain a basic proficiency in lifting but like I said I probably wouldn't recommend Starting Strength as there are better programs, I like a full body or a upper/lower tho with some accessories like bicep curls, leg curl, rows/pullups. I think bench press, OHP, chinups, deadlifts, squats, rows are a pretty solid backbone of a program that hits almost every muscle.

[BigDeeps01]

i think as a beginner it's easy to get caught up in doing all the isolation movements under the sun and put all of your energy into those instead of the compound work which'll get you the bulk of your gains. It's difficult to focus on every single muscle at a time with enough volume, i mean you can say that chest flies are needed for the pec stretch, lateral raises for side delts, cleans for explosive strength etc, etc and before you know you have 12 different exercises everyday you feel like you need to do all the time. just focus on the basics and expand over time

it isn't like starting strength is meant to be run forever, just gain a basic proficiency in lifting but like I said I probably wouldn't recommend Starting Strength as there are better programs, I like a full body or a upper/lower tho with some accessories like bicep curls, leg curl, rows/pullups. I think bench press, OHP, chinups, deadlifts, squats, rows are a pretty solid backbone of a program that hits almost every muscle.

Yeah like I said I would recommend an upper/lower split focused on compounds with isolations afterwards. Especially for back/rear delts which are heavily neglected by a lot of people

[1hardgainer]

There's no way that's a legit before/after pic from a lifting program.

[cannonballdooky]

It’s almost as if... many football players also have aesthetic physiques from the powerlifting.

Hmmmm

It’s almost as if.....

Powerlifting and aesthetics are related.... !!!?

It's almost as if football players have better than average genetics? Crazy, I know.

Guys like Jeff Nippard, Dylan McKenna, Alpha Destiny, many others don't train with SS yet look way better than most other people and some even run splits.

I see so many people in the gym, usually young kids, who can squat, bench, deadlift heavy yet have NO muscle, barely look like they lift.

One thing in common, I never see them do accessory movements. And if they do, they do them so light that there's not even a point in doing them in the first place. You can still progressively overload on curls, tricep extensions, shrugs, treat them like real exercises.

[proteinsnake]

Yeah like I said I would recommend an upper/lower split focused on compounds with isolations afterwards. Especially for back/rear delts which are heavily neglected by a lot of people

Starting strength is only possible to follow for max 2-3 months. The amount of work you need to adapt that early on is so low that just doing deadlifts alone will grow your upper back. After 2-3 months you'll stop progressing linearly and you're intended to change to an intermediate program that includes more exercise variation. Like we keep saying, if you follow it properly, for the length of time intended then it's a great beginner program. Only retards who bloat up 50lbs and follow it for years end up looking like chit.

It's intended to make the most of your beginner strength gains and give you familiarity with the main movements right away to give you a base to work off of. It does a great job of that.