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    Not eating enough.

    The only way to lose weight is to be in a calorie deficit right? I spoke to a personal trainer (who may I add studied to be a personal trainer at college) why my weight had stalled as I wasn’t actually sure. I thought I was eating in a deficit when I clearly wasn’t ( I am now and the scale is moving ) he said I simply wasn’t eating enough calories.
    Can this be true??? I always thought the only way you wouldn’t lose weight would be if you were consuming more calories than you should be to be in a deficit.
    I’m confused??
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    Originally Posted by Liftnsquat View Post
    The only way to lose weight is to be in a calorie deficit right? I spoke to a personal trainer (who may I add studied to be a personal trainer at college) why my weight had stalled as I wasn’t actually sure. I thought I was eating in a deficit when I clearly wasn’t ( I am now and the scale is moving ) he said I simply wasn’t eating enough calories.
    Can this be true??? I always thought the only way you wouldn’t lose weight would be if you were consuming more calories than you should be to be in a deficit.
    I’m confused??
    Well, technically no, you can lose water without being in a deficit, but I think you mean fat weight...

    In that case, yes, you need an energy deficit to burn off stored energy (fat).

    The reason people sometimes say you're 'not eating enough' is usually the concept of 'starvation mode' wherein a prolonged deficit can down-regulate certain metabolic processes/calorie-burning factors and thus decrease calorie burn.

    However, this doesn't mean more energy in = more energy out... it simply means that as you lose more fat, you may need to continue to decrease calories or increase activity to keep the deficit going.
    Last edited by AdamWW; 01-15-2020 at 10:21 AM.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Well, technically no, you can lose water without being in a deficit, but I think you mean fat weight...

    In that case, yes, you need an energy deficit to burn off stored energy (fat).

    The reason people sometimes say you're 'not eating enough' is usually the concept of 'starvation mode' wherein a prolonged deficit can down-regulate certain metabolic processes/calorie-burning factors and thus decrease calorie burn.

    However, this doesn't mean more energy in = more energy out... it simply means that as you lose more fat, you may need to continue to decrease calories or increase activity to keep the deficit going.

    Yes I mean lose fat. He just said you need to eat more to lose weight and I get the whole starvation mode thing but what if someone ended up on like super low calories and their weight stalled ( I’m just curious btw ) to the point where they literally couldn’t drop calories any more for health reasons or whatever... I’m guessing you’d need to up the exercise instead?
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    Originally Posted by Liftnsquat View Post
    Yes I mean lose fat. He just said you need to eat more to lose weight and I get the whole starvation mode thing but what if someone ended up on like super low calories and their weight stalled ( I’m just curious btw ) to the point where they literally couldn’t drop calories any more for health reasons or whatever... I’m guessing you’d need to up the exercise instead?
    Well, in general, 'health issues' from being too lean typically don't start to show up until ~10% bodyfat in men, and some people can actually get by for shorter periods even 1-3% points below that.

    However, if you're in a position where dropping calories would result in health issues, then adding cardio is also not a good idea because it does the same thing: it increases the deficit. So any health concern you had about lowing cals should exist for increasing cardio... they do the same thing in this context.

    Like I said before, weight-loss stalls happen because the energy deficit isn't as high as it used to be.

    Heck, your calorie burn just walking around (even keeping activity the same) will decrease over time because you're holding less bodyweight... it's like going from a 30lb weight vest to a 10lb weight vest: the same activity burns less energy.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Well, in general, 'health issues' from being too lean typically don't start to show up until ~10% bodyfat in men, and some people can actually get by for shorter periods even 1-3% points below that.

    However, if you're in a position where dropping calories would result in health issues, then adding cardio is also not a good idea because it does the same thing: it increases the deficit. So any health concern you had about lowing cals should exist for increasing cardio... they do the same thing in this context.

    Like I said before, weight-loss stalls happen because the energy deficit isn't as high as it used to be.

    Heck, your calorie burn just walking around (even keeping activity the same) will decrease over time because you're holding less bodyweight... it's like going from a 30lb weight vest to a 10lb weight vest: the same activity burns less energy.

    Okay thanks I think I understand now. I always wondered that with the whole “starvation mode” like did it mean you had to basically move more etc
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    Originally Posted by Liftnsquat View Post
    Okay thanks I think I understand now. I always wondered that with the whole “starvation mode” like did it mean you had to basically move more etc
    So actually yes, it can mean that sometimes depending on how an individual adapts/responds to a deficit.

    SOME people seem to not adjust their unconscious movement (NEAT, etc) much at all until very low levels of bodyfat and energy intake.

    Others, as soon as you take 500 calories away from them, and they feel like they wanna nap all day... they'll get cold... they won't workout as hard... etc...

    Eventually everyone will get to this 'starvation mode' where - again - metabolic processes slow down to preserve energy and thus burn less fat off, however that level of leanness and calorie intake varies wildly.

    If you're the kind of person who responds to calorie restriction with a very high-degree of activity/movement down-regulation, then one method of continuing to burn more calories is to increase conscious movement (cardio that you do purposefully) to make sure that the decrease in unconscious energy burn doesn't bring you out of a deficit or severely slow fat loss.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    So actually yes, it can mean that sometimes depending on how an individual adapts/responds to a deficit.

    SOME people seem to not adjust their unconscious movement (NEAT, etc) much at all until very low levels of bodyfat and energy intake.

    Others, as soon as you take 500 calories away from them, and they feel like they wanna nap all day... they'll get cold... they won't workout as hard... etc...

    Eventually everyone will get to this 'starvation mode' where - again - metabolic processes slow down to preserve energy and thus burn less fat off, however that level of leanness and calorie intake varies wildly.

    If you're the kind of person who responds to calorie restriction with a very high-degree of activity/movement down-regulation, then one method of continuing to burn more calories is to increase conscious movement (cardio that you do purposefully) to make sure that the decrease in unconscious energy burn doesn't bring you out of a deficit or severely slow fat loss.

    I have a question that maybe you can also help with. I have asked this before but didn’t get the jist of it. I trained a good few years ago and I was eating like between 1800-1900 cals ( sometimes a little more on training days) and was happily losing around .5-1lb per week that was with no cardio. Now I’m back Into my training after that long break I can’t seem to eat any more than like 1400-1450 and I gain weight. What’s actually happened? I’d love to be able to eat more and still lose weight.

    I see trainers often post on social media about how they have gotten their clients to start actually eating more and still lose weight and even better the extra cals helping them keep good performance in the gym.
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    Originally Posted by Liftnsquat View Post
    I have a question that maybe you can also help with. I have asked this before but didn’t get the jist of it. I trained a good few years ago and I was eating like between 1800-1900 cals ( sometimes a little more on training days) and was happily losing around .5-1lb per week that was with no cardio. Now I’m back Into my training after that long break I can’t seem to eat any more than like 1400-1450 and I gain weight. What’s actually happened? I’d love to be able to eat more and still lose weight.

    I see trainers often post on social media about how they have gotten their clients to start actually eating more and still lose weight and even better the extra cals helping them keep good performance in the gym.
    Are you saying you gain weight eating more than 1450 calories?

    WHat is your height/weight?

    And how long have you been back into training? How are you assessing your weight changes, are you using a rolling weekly average?
    Last edited by AdamWW; 01-15-2020 at 12:07 PM.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Are you saying you gain weight eating more than 1450 calories?

    I don’t think that’s possible. Something is wrong with how you’re tracking food if that’s what you’re observing.

    Well I had been eating around 1900 cals maybe a bit more and gaining weight and now that I am closely tracking and weighing my food and haven’t gone over 1450 every day along with weight training 3/4 x per week and a little cardio I’m now losing 1lb per week or have done the last 3 weeks.

    I just wondered why back then I was easily losing when eating around 1900 sometimes more and now when I eat around that I can gain weight
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    Originally Posted by Liftnsquat View Post
    Well I had been eating around 1900 cals maybe a bit more and gaining weight and now that I am closely tracking and weighing my food and haven’t gone over 1450 every day along with weight training 3/4 x per week and a little cardio I’m now losing 1lb per week or have done the last 3 weeks.

    I just wondered why back then I was easily losing when eating around 1900 sometimes more and now when I eat around that I can gain weight
    I updated my response... can you comment on your height/weight and your method to measuring weight change?
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    I updated my response... can you comment on your height/weight and your method to measuring weight change?

    I’m 5ft 1, 31 years old , and weigh 150lbs.
    I use my scale at home to measure weight change. I was using a tape measure but my waist and hips haven’t changed at all but my T-shirt’s etc are a lot more loose on me, especially around my stomach and my jeans/trousers are slightly loose around my thighs too. My strength hasn’t gone down in the gym too much. I have been doing cardio more now due to me studying to be a PT this year ( I do have a lot to learn ) I will need to take fitness classes when I get a new job hopefully In a gym so I want my cardio to be decent

    My macros are 140g protein 123g carbs and 39g fat
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    Originally Posted by Liftnsquat View Post
    I’m 5ft 1, 31 years old , and weigh 150lbs.
    I use my scale at home to measure weight change. I was using a tape measure but my waist and hips haven’t changed at all but my T-shirt’s etc are a lot more loose on me, especially around my stomach and my jeans/trousers are slightly loose around my thighs too. My strength hasn’t gone down in the gym too much. I have been doing cardio more now due to me studying to be a PT this year ( I do have a lot to learn ) I will need to take fitness classes when I get a new job hopefully In a gym.

    My macros are 140g protein 123g carbs and 39g fat
    Right, but what im wondering is how you track changes... do you use an average weekly weight? How long have you been monitoring your weight on this cut?

    To be honest, someone your size needing to cut at around 1500 calories doesn't sound that crazy especially if you haven't been back to the gym for a while.

    The reason you used to be able to eat more is likely because of a lot of small factors as opposed to a single one.

    More lean mass, more energy during training, an overall more active lifestyle, etc, can factor into this.

    Also, over time, many people experience plateaus wherein they start to maintain on a higher calorie number and they have to purposefully add more if they want to see a change. Your body can eventually adapt to it's current intake and demand more/less if you want to shift the weight on the scale.

    I'm guessing you didn't just start from day 1 on 2000+ calories, so it makes sense after a long break you wouldn't be able to start from day 1 on that level.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Right, but what im wondering is how you track changes... do you use an average weekly weight? How long have you been monitoring your weight on this cut?

    To be honest, someone your size needing to cut at around 1500 calories doesn't sound that crazy especially if you haven't been back to the gym for a while.

    The reason you used to be able to eat more is likely because of a lot of small factors as opposed to a single one.

    More lean mass, more energy during training, an overall more active lifestyle, etc, can factor into this.

    Also, over time, many people experience plateaus wherein they start to maintain on a higher calorie number and they have to purposefully add more if they want to see a change. Your body can eventually adapt to it's current intake and demand more/less if you want to shift the weight on the scale.

    I'm guessing you didn't just start from day 1 on 2000+ calories, so it makes sense after a long break you wouldn't be able to start from day 1 on that level.

    I’m not sure how to use an average weekly weight? Can you explain? I’ve seen people do it but never done it myself. I used to weigh myself every day sometimes twice a day and felt it was a bit obsessive, so I only weigh once on a Sunday morning before the gym each week.
    I honestly looked great when I trained which was 5x per week doing 5x5 programme. I was eating around the same as now maybe 1600 cals, but I then went with a trainer who increased my cals on training days and less on rest days and my strength was great and my energy was good too so yeah I didn’t start on 2000+ cals.
    I’m guessing I just need to be able to train harder give it time to increase some mass ( newbie gains??)

    I thought about maybe increasing my cals after a few weeks and see if my weight still drops so instead of eating 1400-1450 cals maybe bump it up to 1600 cals and see if my weight still drops? If it doesn’t just drop cals back down again?
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    Originally Posted by Liftnsquat View Post
    I’m not sure how to use an average weekly weight? Can you explain? I’ve seen people do it but never done it myself. I used to weigh myself every day sometimes twice a day and felt it was a bit obsessive so I only weigh once on a Sunday morning before the gym each week.
    I honestly looked great when I trained which was 5x per week doing 5x5 programme. I was eating around the same as now maybe 1600 cals but I then went with a trainer who increased my cals on training days and less on rest days and my strength was great and my energy was good too so yeah I didn’t start on 2000+ cals.
    I’m guessing I just need to be able to train harder give it time to increase some mass ( newbie gains??)

    I thought about maybe increasing my cals after a few weeks and see if my weight still drops so instead of eating 1400-1450 cals maybe bump it up to 1600 cals and see if my weight still drops? If it doesn’t just drop cals back down again?
    Average weekly weight = the average of the last 7 days.

    For example:

    Day 1 - 100
    Day 2 - 101
    Day 3 = 100.5
    Day 4 = 101
    Day 5 = 102
    Day 6 = 101
    Day 7 = 101

    On Day 7, you sum up all of those weights and divide them by 7 (because it's a week), and then you use THAT number as your 'true' average weight, not any single day.

    This removes possible issues with daily weight changes because no one day is the sole mechanism by which you measure weight or the changes.

    Once you have that 7 days worth of data, you can actually start to measure daily changes by subtracting today's average weight (Day 1 through Day 7 divided by the number of days (y)) from whatever LAST week's average weight was.

    That change in the average weekly weight is then what you use to monitor weight gain/loss.

    It will require about 14 days worth of consistent tracking to do this, but it's much more accurate, because you never have to assume any one day is actual weight gain or loss...

    Another way of thinking of it: your 'true' weight on any given day is actually an average of today + the last week, not JUST what you weigh today. Weighing yourself twice a day is pointless... you need to weigh yourself at the same time under the same conditions if you want to actually measure progress... in the morning, in underwear or no clothing at all, AFTER using the bathroom, preferably at the same time.

    Increasing calories is not going to cause actual fat loss unless you somehow adapt to it or modify activity to offset the added calories.
    Last edited by AdamWW; 01-15-2020 at 12:52 PM.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Average weekly weight = the average of the last 7 days.

    For example:

    Day 1 - 100
    Day 2 - 101
    Day 3 = 100.5
    Day 4 = 101
    Day 5 = 102
    Day 6 = 101
    Day 7 = 101

    On Day 8, you sum up all of those weights and divide them by 7 (because it's a week), and then you use THAT number as your 'true' average weight, not any single day.

    This removes possible issues with daily weight changes because no one day is the sole mechanism by which you measure weight or the changes.

    Once you have that 7 days worth of data, you can actually start to measure daily changes by subtracting today's average weight (Day 1 through Day 7 divided by the number of days (y)) from whatever LAST week's average weight was.

    That change in the average weekly weight is then what you use to monitor weight gain/loss.

    It will require about 14 days worth of consistent tracking to do this, but it's much more accurate, because you never have to assume any one day is actual weight gain or loss...

    Another way of thinking of it: your 'true' weight on any given day is actually an average of today + the last week, not JUST what you weigh today.

    Increasing calories is not going to cause actual fat loss unless you somehow adapt to it or modify activity to offset the added calories.

    I see! I’ve screenshot this message to use as an example and remember what to do. Thanks so much for this 😃. Okay I won’t up my calories if I’m doing okay with the calories I’m eating just now.

    I used to do IIFYM but I have started to just eat more veggies and fruit to fill my carbs instead of justifying eating rubbish and thinking that I will make great progress with it. I feel since I’m eating more veggies and fruit I have more energy.
    I was just eating whatever fit my macros and felt sluggish and didn’t feel like my training was up to much 😕 I do still have the odd treat if I have some calories left at the end of the day.
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    Originally Posted by Liftnsquat View Post
    I see! I’ve screenshot this message to use as an example and remember what to do. Thanks so much for this . Okay I won’t up my calories if I’m doing okay with the calories I’m eating just now.

    I used to do IIFYM but I have started to just eat more veggies and fruit to fill my carbs instead of justifying eating rubbish and thinking that I will make great progress with it. I feel since I’m eating more veggies and fruit I have more energy.
    I was just eating whatever fit my macros and felt sluggish and didn’t feel like my training was up to much I do still have the odd treat if I have some calories left at the end of the day.
    FYI I added some more details to my post so you might wanna read it again

    Also, if you use an iPhone there is an app called 'Happy Scale' which I have used before and it actually does all the averaging for you. Highly recommend if you wanna check it out. I believe it's free.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    FYI I added some more details to my post so you might wanna read it again

    Also, if you use an iPhone there is an app called 'Happy Scale' which I have used before and it actually does all the averaging for you. Highly recommend if you wanna check it out. I believe it's free.

    Great thanks! I will certainly download it as I have an iPhone. Thank you so much for your help it means a lot and has cleared a lot up for me. I’m always full of questions and jumping on here to find answers.
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    Originally Posted by Liftnsquat View Post
    Great thanks! I will certainly download it as I have an iPhone. Thank you so much for your help it means a lot and has cleared a lot up for me. I’m always full of questions and jumping on here to find answers.
    Anytime!

    I think you'll enjoy the app a lot... you can tweak the settings to customize which kind of averaging you want, it shows you trends, etc etc...
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Anytime!

    I think you'll enjoy the app a lot... you can tweak the settings to customize which kind of averaging you want, it shows you trends, etc etc...
    I’ve set my weight but I’m not sure how you change it once your weight changes?
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    Originally Posted by Liftnsquat View Post
    I’ve set my weight but I’m not sure how you change it once your weight changes?
    What do you mean?

    In the app, there's a plus sign at the bottom where you add your weight every morning.

    Then in the 'logbook' it will show you the average weight once you have enough entries.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    What do you mean?

    In the app, there's a plus sign at the bottom where you add your weight every morning.

    Then in the 'logbook' it will show you the average weight once you have enough entries.

    Ahh right I see it now! So I can just put my weight in here every day and it will show me the trend every week?
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    Originally Posted by Liftnsquat View Post
    Ahh right I see it now! So I can just put my weight in here every day and it will show me the trend every week?
    What you'll see is an entry in the logbook for every day you add one, and then there should be a 'Moving Average' column where it will show you what the weekly average is.

    There's a column for the day, the weight you entered that day, and then the average weight, as well as the weekly weight change on the far right.

    Are you not seeing the columns or something?
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    What you'll see is an entry in the logbook for every day you add one, and then there should be a 'Moving Average' column where it will show you what the weekly average is.

    There's a column for the day, the weight you entered that day, and then the average weight, as well as the weekly weight change on the far right.

    Are you not seeing the columns or something?

    In the log book I can see where I’ve logged my weight then at the top it says
    Recorded, moving average, loss/week is that right? So I just hit the plus sign next time I weigh myself and it will show on this log book? Does it show you the trend in your weight in a graph form or does it just show you it in numbers?
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    Originally Posted by Liftnsquat View Post
    In the log book I can see where I’ve logged my weight then at the top it says
    Recorded, moving average, loss/week is that right? So I just hit the plus sign next time I weigh myself and it will show on this log book? Does it show you the trend in your weight in a graph form or does it just show you it in numbers?
    Yes, everytime you add a weight each day, it goes into the logbook.

    It shows in the log book in columns, but there's also a 'reports' sections where you can see it in other ways.

    Just explore it, look through online examples/tutorials if you need more info, I think they might even have a website... it's pretty intuitive once you use it for a short time.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Yes, everytime you add a weight each day, it goes into the logbook.

    It shows in the log book in columns, but there's also a 'reports' sections where you can see it in other ways.

    Just explore it, look through online examples/tutorials if you need more info, I think they might even have a website... it's pretty intuitive once you use it for a short time.
    Excellent thank you so much once again for your help. As they say every day is a school day lol
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    Originally Posted by Liftnsquat View Post
    Excellent thank you so much once again for your help. As they say every day is a school day lol
    All good!

    It's hard to explain the functions on here so really I think online or in the app instructions would be way better than getting it from me ;o)

    Check out their site: https://happyscale.com/
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    All good!

    It's hard to explain the functions on here so really I think online or in the app instructions would be way better than getting it from me ;o)

    Check out their site: https://happyscale.com/

    I will have a look you’ve helped tonnes already. More so the fact you’ve explained stuff pretty clearly
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