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  1. #1
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    5/3/1 Big but Boring

    Is this routine okay?

    (Sets x Reps)

    M: Shoulder Press of 5, 3, and 1+ Rep based on working weight
    T2: Shoulder Press 5x10, 50%
    T3:
    DB Lateral, 3x12, 60%
    Facepull, 3x15, 50%
    Battleropes, 15mins

    T: Deadlift of 5, 3, and 1+ Rep based on working weight
    T2: Trapbar Deadlift, 5x10, 50%
    T3:
    Trapbar Shrugs, 4x8, 40%
    Barbell Rows, 4x5,7,9,amrap, 50%-20% by 10
    Lat Pulldown, 3x12, 50%

    Th: Bench Press of 5, 3, and 1+ Rep based on working weight
    T2: Incline Bench Press 5x10, 50%
    T3:
    DB Fly 3x12 40%
    Close Grip Bench Press 3x5,7,9,amrap, 80%-50% by 10
    Tricep Cable Extension 3x12, 30%

    F: Squat of 5, 3, and 1+ Rep based on working weight
    T2: Squat 5x10, 50%
    T3:
    Single Leg Press 3x10, 30%
    Stiff Leg Deadlift 4x5,7,9,amrap, 80%-40% by 10
    Loaded Carries 75% of DL, 40w 30r, 15 mins.

    % refers to percentage to working weight.
    All says starts the major compound exercises based on the 5/3/1 program, followed by 50% working weight of the same variation.

    (Im really sorry if i cant reply as soon im fairly new often my notif doesnt work)
    Last edited by BuddySan; 01-07-2020 at 01:30 AM. Reason: clarification; changed RDL with TrapBar Shrugs
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  2. #2
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    Yes. BBB is an okay program

    The recommendation is now to do sets of 5 for the main movement. No 3s or 1s.

    And you should have 50+ reps for each push pull core as accessory lifts each day. The Romanian deadlift might (most likely) be overkill with all those regular deadlifts.

    You can also change the weight. It doesn't have to be 50 percent. There's the BBB challenge, that goes up 10 percent each month for 3 months. Or you could pyramid the weight. Or if brave, you could do FSL weights. I liked that better with bench and deadlifts. Squats and ohp... it was rough. Especially on week 3.

    Don't be afraid to use different assistance schemes for different lifts. Wendler himself advises this. He seems to like 1x20 for squats at FSL. I'm not doing that
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  3. #3
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    Originally Posted by WakingOp View Post
    Yes. BBB is an okay program

    The recommendation is now to do sets of 5 for the main movement. No 3s or 1s.

    And you should have 50+ reps for each push pull core as accessory lifts each day. The Romanian deadlift might (most likely) be overkill with all those regular deadlifts.

    You can also change the weight. It doesn't have to be 50 percent. There's the BBB challenge, that goes up 10 percent each month for 3 months. Or you could pyramid the weight. Or if brave, you could do FSL weights. I liked that better with bench and deadlifts. Squats and ohp... it was rough. Especially on week 3.

    Don't be afraid to use different assistance schemes for different lifts. Wendler himself advises this. He seems to like 1x20 for squats at FSL. I'm not doing that
    thanks for the response!

    yes to be honest the RDL was the main reason why i wanted my routine to be checked out. prior to the trapbar deadlift i do conventional deadlift of 3 sets as per the 5/3/1 program (85% or so of working weight AMRAP last set). i do this with other compound lifts but deadlift day seems to break me lol.

    i got winded out heading to my barbell rows and up till now im exhausted. i might change RDL with something that requires less intensity, prolly a cable workout.
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    Originally Posted by BuddySan View Post
    thanks for the response!

    yes to be honest the RDL was the main reason why i wanted my routine to be checked out. prior to the trapbar deadlift i do conventional deadlift of 3 sets as per the 5/3/1 program (85% or so of working weight AMRAP last set). i do this with other compound lifts but deadlift day seems to break me lol.

    i got winded out heading to my barbell rows and up till now im exhausted. i might change RDL with something that requires less intensity, prolly a cable workout.
    i changed it with trapbar shrugs if anyone is wondering
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  5. #5
    Registered User rpedrosb's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WakingOp View Post
    Yes. BBB is an okay program

    The recommendation is now to do sets of 5 for the main movement. No 3s or 1s.

    And you should have 50+ reps for each push pull core as accessory lifts each day. The Romanian deadlift might (most likely) be overkill with all those regular deadlifts.

    You can also change the weight. It doesn't have to be 50 percent. There's the BBB challenge, that goes up 10 percent each month for 3 months. Or you could pyramid the weight. Or if brave, you could do FSL weights. I liked that better with bench and deadlifts. Squats and ohp... it was rough. Especially on week 3.

    Don't be afraid to use different assistance schemes for different lifts. Wendler himself advises this. He seems to like 1x20 for squats at FSL. I'm not doing that
    I am also doing 531 BBB (slightly different than OP version when it comes to accessory exercises). Out of interest, where does this recommendation of doing sets of 5 instead of the typical 5/3/1 come from? Is the main goal to just increase volume?

    Edit: In case sets of 5 is preferred, does the progression scheme remain the same or should it be adapted to compensate the increase in reps?
    Last edited by rpedrosb; 01-07-2020 at 01:29 AM.
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    Originally Posted by rpedrosb View Post
    I am also doing 531 BBB (slightly different than OP version when it comes to accessory exercises). Out of interest, where does this recommendation of doing sets of 5 instead of the typical 5/3/1 come from? Is the main goal to just increase volume?
    would you mind sharing your accessory exercises? I often overdo my accessory lifts so i want to see how theyre usually programmed.
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  7. #7
    Registered User rpedrosb's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BuddySan View Post
    would you mind sharing your accessory exercises? I often overdo my accessory lifts so i want to see how theyre usually programmed.
    Day 1:
    Squat 5/3/1
    Deadlift BBB 5x10
    Leg curl 2x10
    Abs

    Day 2:
    Bench Press 5/3/1
    Shoulder Press BBB 5x10
    Lat Pulldown 5x10
    Facepulls 2x10
    Biceps curl 2x10

    Day 3:
    Deadlift 5/3/1
    Squat 5x10
    Leg Press 2x10
    Abs

    Day 4:
    Shoulder Press 5/3/1
    Bench Press BBB 5x10
    Seated Cable row 5x10
    Facepulls 2x10
    Triceps pushdown 2x10

    I decided to switch BBB sets (squat with deadlift, bench press with shoulder press, and so on) to increase variety and make it less "boring".

    For Abs I usually do a couple of sets of Hanging Leg raises, Russian twists, planks...I do not have a fixed plan and I do them depending on how tired I feel on that day (I know it is probably not optimal).

    Feel free to provide any feedback on the way I programmed it!
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    Originally Posted by rpedrosb View Post
    Day 1:
    Squat 5/3/1
    Deadlift BBB 5x10
    Leg curl 2x10
    Abs

    Day 2:
    Bench Press 5/3/1
    Shoulder Press BBB 5x10
    Lat Pulldown 5x10
    Facepulls 2x10
    Biceps curl 2x10

    Day 3:
    Deadlift 5/3/1
    Squat 5x10
    Leg Press 2x10
    Abs

    Day 4:
    Shoulder Press 5/3/1
    Bench Press BBB 5x10
    Seated Cable row 5x10
    Facepulls 2x10
    Triceps pushdown 2x10

    I decided to switch BBB sets (squat with deadlift, bench press with shoulder press, and so on) to increase variety and make it less "boring".

    For Abs I usually do a couple of sets of Hanging Leg raises, Russian twists, planks...I do not have a fixed plan and I do them depending on how tired I feel on that day (I know it is probably not optimal).

    Feel free to provide any feedback on the way I programmed it!
    looks okay for me! thanks for your response.

    ever tried changing your deadlift variation? your idea of switching 50 reps is cool too, how long have you been in your cycle? good progress?
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  9. #9
    Registered User rpedrosb's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BuddySan View Post
    looks okay for me! thanks for your response.

    ever tried changing your deadlift variation? your idea of switching 50 reps is cool too, how long have you been in your cycle? good progress?
    I might switch from Deadlift to Romanian Deadlift for future cycles, depending how much I struggle with them. At the moment I am just finishing my second cycle, so it is a bit early to jump into conclusions. Anyway, I like the program and I don't find "boring" at all.

    The progression might be to slow but I kinda like that, I followed other programs in the past such as Fierce 5 and in most cases I could not manage with the linear progression. So this time I decided to go for the slow but long term approach.
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    Originally Posted by rpedrosb View Post
    I am also doing 531 BBB (slightly different than OP version when it comes to accessory exercises). Out of interest, where does this recommendation of doing sets of 5 instead of the typical 5/3/1 come from? Is the main goal to just increase volume?

    Edit: In case sets of 5 is preferred, does the progression scheme remain the same or should it be adapted to compensate the increase in reps?
    It came from Jim. He wrote in his blog I believe, but it's definitely in the new book. He now recommends straight 5s, and NOT switching the assistance exercises. The 5s is to save energy for the 5x10 sets instead of going all out and then being too tired. And you do the assistance work with the same lift I think because it makes it more focused.

    Also as per Jim's instructions- accessory work need not be programmed. Though I do program my rows and pullups. Then just pick whatever seems helpful that day to make up the rest of the accessories
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    Originally Posted by WakingOp View Post
    It came from Jim. He wrote in his blog I believe, but it's definitely in the new book. He now recommends straight 5s, and NOT switching the assistance exercises. The 5s is to save energy for the 5x10 sets instead of going all out and then being too tired. And you do the assistance work with the same lift I think because it makes it more focused.

    Also as per Jim's instructions- accessory work need not be programmed. Though I do program my rows and pullups. Then just pick whatever seems helpful that day to make up the rest of the accessories
    Thanks for the insight. Would you happen to recall the entry in his blog where he explains it?
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    Originally Posted by rpedrosb View Post
    Thanks for the insight. Would you happen to recall the entry in his blog where he explains it?
    He calls this straight 5's concept "5's Pro" or "5's Progression". The first place I heard of was in his Beyond 5/3/1 book. There is a section on it here. WalkingOp is right that 5's Pro is recommended for many of his programs now, in what Jim calls the Leader Phase. 5's Pro allows you to get your basic strength work in and then use more intensity for the Assistance work (like BBB 5x10 or BBS 10x5 or Widowmaker 1x20 at FSL, etc.) for the main lifts but use lower volume/intensity for the Accessory work. In the Anchor Phase you then can switch over to PR sets which is the normal 5/3/1 with Plus sets if you like. Here you use more intensity on the main work, less volume/intensity on the assistance work (i.e. no BBB, BBS, etc.), and higher volume on accessory work. I'm a member of Wendler's private forum and he's been advocating 5's Pro for a while on there and in his Forever book.

    This link describes the basics of the Leader/Anchor concept:

    https://forums.t-nation.com/t/leader...nchor/220524/3

    Fwiw, I use "3's Pro" (same thing as 5's Pro but with reps of 3) for Deadlifts and Squats as it allows me to get strength work in without beating up my back and hips.

    I don't know the specific blog entry WalkingOp mentioned. I did see a little bit about it in this blog entry (in the section Sets, Reps, Percentages):

    https://jimwendler.com/blogs/jimwend...ased-challenge

    I know all of this sounds complicated and unclear at first. Once you understand the concepts, though, it's not complicated and it is a very good way to train. I've been using it for almost 2 years now and really like it.
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    thank you guys for your responses! i like 531 it keeps on evolving no matter how great the program is.
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    Originally Posted by BuddySan View Post
    thank you guys for your responses! i like 531 it keeps on evolving no matter how great the program is.
    I agree it's great how it keeps evolving. Jim has a huge sample base that he uses to evaluate what works and doesn't work and then he makes modifications accordingly.

    I think it can be a great program for many things. I currently use it for Powerbuilding (combo of strength and bodybuilding) and it's working well for me.
    If in doubt, squat and run hills. So you walk into the gym and don't know what to do? Then squat and run hills. Have a miserable day at work and want to break someone's neck but aren't sure who's? Then squat and run hills. - Wendler

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