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  1. #271
    Humble Megalomaniac ElrondHubbard's Avatar
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    Thursday night, finished up Week 29, or "Average to Savage" Week 1. Still calling it a deload, although the exercises are different enough from what I'm used to that I know they're having an effect. Did deadlifts first last night, usually I do them last, before accessories. Lighter weights, but again, more sets. I used my grips, although I usually don't at that weight, doing multiple sets like that would have had an effect on my hands!

    The paused squats felt great. It's been too long since I did them. I think starting them at a light weight really helped. I held them for 3-4 seconds and then tried to stand as explosively as possible. The close grip bench press was hard to get used to, but by the end I was throwing them up pretty quickly. Never did quite get used to the seated overhead press. Several times I felt like I was on the verge of falling over backwards. I'm sure that's exactly why I should be doing them!

    Thursday, July 9

    Deadlift:
    228 lbs, 7 sets, 5 reps each.

    Close Grip Bench:
    96 lbs, 7 sets, 7 reps each

    Paused Squat:
    108 lbs, 6 sets, 7 reps each.

    Seated OHP:
    60 lbs, 7 sets, 7 reps each


    Accessories:
    Pullups, +45 lbs, 6 + 6 + 6
    Chinups, +45 lbs, 6 + 6

    Pushups w/grip handles, toes raised 18.5": 45


    So I got in one extra pullup rep, which was nice. Not so nice was my total collapse on pushups. Not sure why that happened. I was just suddenly beat. Might have been non-gym related. We'll see what Sunday offers: Weights increase, reps go down.
    I'm out, standing in my field.

    65 and still a newbie.
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  2. #272
    Still Pounding! TM79's Avatar
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    Great looking sessions going on in here Dave. I like the looks of that program. As you mentioned, it must be nice to not have to load plates all the time. Sometimes I superset 3 lifts at once and as I pace endlessly around my garage loading plates between sets I'm usually struck by the thought, "is this actually taking more time? It was meant to save time...." Wide stance squats would be an interesting variation. My knees don't like squat variations so much. I would think the thighs would get a big workout from doing that one. Keep up the great work!
    All-Time PR's and Info:
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    Powerlifting: Squat: 315, Bench: 255, Deadlift: 420
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  3. #273
    Recovering Weakling RT1957's Avatar
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    Good way to start...giving yourself a lot of room for progress...3PPS on squats would be great. I'll be happy if I can get 250. If I get there I'll reassess
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  4. #274
    Registered User Payton1221's Avatar
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    Dave,

    I've not seen you post in a while. I too am less active on this board but I hope you're doing well and still crushin' the iron
    Pull-Up PR: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=177233951
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  5. #275
    t-rex arms Jdizzlean's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Payton1221 View Post
    Dave,

    I've not seen you post in a while. I too am less active on this board but I hope you're doing well and still crushin' the iron
    I'd second that, you're an inspiration for sure. hope things are ok for you.
    my workout blog: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=177584181&p=1588523911#post1588523911
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  6. #276
    Humble Megalomaniac ElrondHubbard's Avatar
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    Hey, guys... Sorry for the unannounced leave of absence. I didn't expect to be gone this long. There's been a lot going on, and my internet time is minimal lately. I'm still training, still doing the "Average to Savage" program by Greg Nuckols. I'm not convinced that I'm progressing under it yet, but it is supposed to be very gradual. The jury is still out. I'm currently on week 9 of it.

    I finally got fed up at work and submitted my resignation. Actually, I'd been fed up for a while. I think I have a new job lined up, but it's not a sure thing. If that doesn't work out, though, there will be others. In the meantime, I'm burning my accumulated vacation time. Finishing up the fall garden planting in the next couple of days, and still building my workshop expansion. I've finally got all the walls up, and roofing starts next week.

    In the midst of it all, I reached the 65-year milestone last month, which means I'm officially geriatric, wise, sage, feeble, and senile. And I'll have a new avatar photo to prove it.

    It'll be a while yet before I can get back here regularly as before, but I do want to catch up and see how everyone else is doing. I've missed you folks!

    I'm out, standing in my field.

    65 and still a newbie.
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  7. #277
    🥋 A Karate Kid age 61 Samraiwise's Avatar
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    Health, job, family and aging, in every theme in our lives you are the vanguard of this BB.com community.
    (BTW, belated Happy B-day to you, Dave! Mine's too August so I'm 61 now.)

    And please keep us in the loop, let us learn from every experience of yours, share the happiness and sadness with us.

    Stay safe and wish you good luck on finding a challenging and fulfilling job.

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  8. #278
    Still Pounding! TM79's Avatar
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    Glad to hear that you're doing well Dave. Hopefully the new job works out and I'm at least glad you were able to get out of the last one. Glad you've still been training and getting your garden done. Happy belated birthday! I would be ecstatic to be doing as well as you at that age. Come back around when you get some time my friend!
    All-Time PR's and Info:
    M, 5'10", 175 lb
    Powerlifting: Squat: 315, Bench: 255, Deadlift: 420
    Running: 5K: 22:46, 10K: 49:49, 15K: 1:28:08, 13.1: 2:03:00
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  9. #279
    Registered User Payton1221's Avatar
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    Glad to know you're still after it, but I was sure that you were ;-)
    Pull-Up PR: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=177233951
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  10. #280
    Registered User HomeGymChains's Avatar
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    Happy Birthday!
    Best wishes with all that other excitement.
    (Reps on spread.)
    At age 62, I've exceeded all my prior PRs. Not “over the hill” yet. :)

    My workout journal is here:
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=176385621
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  11. #281
    Humble Megalomaniac ElrondHubbard's Avatar
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    It's been so long, it's impossible to post an actual "journal" entry at this point. Thursday I finished week 10 of the "Average to Savage" program. It's at the point where it's "feeling" heavy, but the actual weights are still less than they were while I was near peaking at Madcow. I have a few more undulations to go still, and my wife tells me she's seeing a difference in definition, so I'm going to keep playing it out.

    This is the general setup:

    Sunday:
    Squat
    Stiff-legged Deadlift
    Incline Bench

    Accessories -- Weighted pullups/chinups, Pushups with hands as far down close to my waist as possible.

    Tuesday:
    Bench Press
    Overhead Press
    Wide-stance Squat

    Accessories -- Body-weight pullps/chinups, rest-pause style, Pushups with toes elevated, rest-pause style

    Thursday:
    Deadlift
    Close-grip Bench
    Paused Squat
    Seated Overhead Press

    Accessories -- Weighted pullups/chinups, Pushups with hands as far down close to my waist as possible.


    Progression from week to week varies by exercise, but on the Squat for example, it's this:
    Week 1: 70%-5 reps... Week 2: 75%-4 reps... Week 3: 80%-3 reps... Week 4: 72.5%-5 reps... Week 5: 77.5%-4 reps...
    Week 6 82.5%-3 reps... Week 7: 60%-7 reps... Week 8: 75%-4reps... Week 9: 80%-3 reps... Week 10: 85%-2 reps...
    Week 11: 77.5%-4 reps... Week 12: 82.5%-3 reps...

    Where I do 7 sets of each exercise, and the percentages are recalculated every week depending on whether I made those goals the previous week.

    Glad it's on a spreadsheet!

    It's set up for a 21 week cycle, after which I suppose I recalculate my own percentages and start over. I haven't decided whether to do that or go back to the previous program.

    One big difference between this and Madcow, other than the undulating vs linear progression, is that with Madcow four of your sets are ramping up, and you only do the maximum weight for one set. Here, other than warmups, all of your sets are done at the goal weight. Overall, I feel like the variety has been interesting.

    I really love the wide-stance squats, I'd never even considered them before. They totally blast my glutes, and seem to trigger my hamstrings a little better than conventional squats as well.

    I HATE the seated overhead press. I just don't feel stable with it, and it took me a number of weeks before I could find a way to anchor my feet in a way that allowed me to brace my core without feeling like I was going to fall over. I can't do much weight with them at all.

    So, like everything else, time will tell. At least I have a place to train, which makes me feel very fortunate indeed.
    I'm out, standing in my field.

    65 and still a newbie.
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  12. #282
    t-rex arms Jdizzlean's Avatar
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    any variation of the overhead press makes me feel like a jr high weakling. i feel the same way you do on the seated ones when trying to do overheads while standing, so much so that i swore off them a while back. tonight i did some seated ones with db's, and it was ok, but my feet still felt awkward ;/
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  13. #283
    Still Pounding! TM79's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'm with Jdizzlean on the seated OHP. That is one of the two lifts where I have actually dislocated my shoulder doing it so I don't do that lift at all. I will do seated DB OHP all day long but no barbell! Good looking program. 21 week cycles and squatting three times per week isn't happening for this cowboy but I'll gladly watch you do it.
    All-Time PR's and Info:
    M, 5'10", 175 lb
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  14. #284
    🥋 A Karate Kid age 61 Samraiwise's Avatar
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    Dave, we both have long fulfilling lives ahead and get old together.


    Just slow down and don't you ever leave me alone,
    just wait for me every now and then
    while I'm catching my breath.

    Good to see you again and where the hel*(sorry) is Zav?
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  15. #285
    Humble Megalomaniac ElrondHubbard's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jdizzlean View Post
    any variation of the overhead press makes me feel like a jr high weakling. i feel the same way you do on the seated ones when trying to do overheads while standing, so much so that i swore off them a while back. tonight i did some seated ones with db's, and it was ok, but my feet still felt awkward ;/
    Yeah, both OHP variants are easily my hardest lifts. Once I rebuild my gym, which I plan to do once I've got my workshop expansion complete, I'm going to build a bench that allows for a vertical back, which might improve things. Or, maybe I could just use a chair in the meantime -- although I'm a bit worried about the chair falling over backwards!
    I'm out, standing in my field.

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  16. #286
    Humble Megalomaniac ElrondHubbard's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TM79 View Post
    Yeah, I'm with Jdizzlean on the seated OHP. That is one of the two lifts where I have actually dislocated my shoulder doing it so I don't do that lift at all. I will do seated DB OHP all day long but no barbell! Good looking program. 21 week cycles and squatting three times per week isn't happening for this cowboy but I'll gladly watch you do it.
    Fortunately, I don't feel my shoulder is at risk from the OHP, although I did strain it right at the collarbone a few weeks ago, and I'm not sure what I was doing when it happened. I didn't notice it until the workout was done, and it's just now getting back to normal. It really messed up my pullups for a while.

    The squat variations are only heavy once per week, when I do conventional low bar. The wide stance squats and paused squats use a lot less weight. As for the 21 week cycle, well, I just started week 11, so I really haven't had to face reality yet on that one!
    I'm out, standing in my field.

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  17. #287
    Humble Megalomaniac ElrondHubbard's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Samraiwise View Post
    Dave, we both have long fulfilling lives ahead and get old together.


    Just slow down and don't you ever leave me alone,
    just wait for me every now and then
    while I'm catching my breath.

    Good to see you again and where the hel*(sorry) is Zav?
    I'm wondering about Zav too. I guess we all have our hiatuses from time to time, though.
    I'm out, standing in my field.

    65 and still a newbie.
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    Originally Posted by ElrondHubbard View Post
    Accessories -- Weighted pullups/chinups, Pushups with hands as far down close to my waist as possible.

    I HATE the seated overhead press. I just don't feel stable with it, and it took me a number of weeks before I could find a way to anchor my feet in a way that allowed me to brace my core without feeling like I was going to fall over.
    The push-up variation is a new one to me. By moving the hands further down near the waist, it shifts the load to which muscle?

    Regarding the OHP, are you just sitting on a "seat" or is your back somewhat supported by a vertical portion of the bench? If you don't have a vertical portion, consider it. If you DO have a vertical portion, consider maybe a slight "cheat" of maybe laying back 5% or so . . . I can't imagine that would negatively affect the muscles that you're wanting to stimulate.
    Pull-Up PR: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=177233951
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    OK, now I'll try to do a real journal entry. Started week 11 of Average to Savage, and Week 39 of my most recent "3rd Time's a Charm" reboot.

    Sunday, September 13. Morning Weight, 163.4 lbs.

    Week 11 Day 1

    Squat:
    218x4, 7 sets

    Stiff-Legged Deadlift
    155x6, 7 sets

    Incline Bench:
    125x6, 7 sets

    Accessories:
    Pullups +45 lbs, 7 + 6 + 6 -- Not quite back to full strength after the collarbone strain. I did 8 reps at this for one brief shining moment during the summer, want to get beyond that.
    Chinups +45 lbs, 7 + 6

    Pushups w/grip handles, toes elevated 3.5", hands down just above waist level: 28 x 3 -- this really hits the lower pecs.


    The important thing is that I still look forward to each workout. And I do!
    I'm out, standing in my field.

    65 and still a newbie.
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    Great looking session! Solid work on the squats. Boy have I missed reading these pull-up numbers. 7xBW+45? Just amazing... And glad you're enjoying your workouts!
    All-Time PR's and Info:
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    Powerlifting: Squat: 315, Bench: 255, Deadlift: 420
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    Originally Posted by TM79 View Post
    Great looking session! Solid work on the squats. Boy have I missed reading these pull-up numbers. 7xBW+45? Just amazing... And glad you're enjoying your workouts!
    Thanks, Trent. The pullups are a continuing struggle. Probably the hardest thing I do. Mentally as well as physically.
    I'm out, standing in my field.

    65 and still a newbie.
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  22. #292
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    It's a good time to post Tuesday night's workout. Trying to get back into making that a habit. Not a bad session, the shoulder felt pretty decent, but not really good enough for me to try the dumbbell lateral raises. Hopefully they'll be back next week.


    Tuesday, September 15. Week 11 Day 2

    Bench Press:
    177x4, 7 sets

    Overhead Press:
    103x4, 7 sets

    Wide Stance Squat:
    158x6, 7 sets

    Accessories:
    Pullups, bodyweight, Myo-reps: 18 + 8x5 + 8 = 66 -- Moderately wide pronated grip
    Chinups, bodyweight, Myo-reps: 15 + 9x5 + 8 = 68 -- Narrow supinated grip

    Pushups w/grip handles, toes elevated 18.5", rest-pause: 46 + 7x15 = 151

    As of today, both butt and pecs are sore. Pushups took me right to the limit.

    Next workout is deadlift, close-grip bench, paused squat, and seated OHP. And weighted pullups/chinups again. I'll definitely need the two day break after that!
    I'm out, standing in my field.

    65 and still a newbie.
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  23. #293
    Humble Megalomaniac ElrondHubbard's Avatar
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    Tough night Thursday. Went in still a bit stiff and sore, and sluggish. I had a pre-workout smoothie, but it might have been a bit too rich. Elbow joints were painful too. I completed all the main lifts, but passed on the accessories, so no pushups or pullups. I expect to be ready to go on Sunday, though.

    Thursday, September 17. Week 11 Day 3

    Deadlift:
    301x4, 7 sets

    Close-Grip Bench:
    130x6, 7 sets

    Paused Squat:
    142x6, 7 sets

    Seated Overhead Press:
    81x6, 7 sets

    One improvement on the Seated OHP this time was that instead of straddling the bench for my lift, I just set up a standard folding chair with a reasonable back support. I had been a little reluctant to do this, worried that I might unbalance and tip the chair over backwards, but there was never a danger of that happening. It made things a lot easier, and I felt more secure doing it. The weights are light for now, I wonder how heavy they'd have to be to endanger the integrity of the chair.

    Two days of recovery until Sunday, I think it will work...
    I'm out, standing in my field.

    65 and still a newbie.
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  24. #294
    Humble Megalomaniac ElrondHubbard's Avatar
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    Sunday night I started Week 12 of "Average to Savage", 40 weeks into "Third Time's a Charm." Feeling a bit on the heavy side, even though it's not as heavy as I had been lifting prior to this program. Spent a lot of time at the lighter weights. Hopefully the strength will ramp up. Still, I got all the planned lifts in. Backslid a little on the pullups, increased a little on the pushups. I think I can make it through the week!

    Sunday, September 20. Morning Weight: 163.6 lbs


    Squat:
    237x3, 7 sets

    Stiff-Legged Deadlift:
    170x5, 7 sets

    Incline Press:
    136x5, 7 sets


    Accessories:
    Pullups + 45 lbs, 6 + 6 + 6
    Chinups + 45 lbs, 7 + 6


    Pushups w/grip handles, toes elevated 3.5", hands down just above waist level: 30 x 3 -- Burns!
    I'm out, standing in my field.

    65 and still a newbie.
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  25. #295
    Humble Megalomaniac ElrondHubbard's Avatar
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    Maybe I spoke too soon. Tuesday's workout was a near-disaster. I'm going to try to blame my elbows for this one, I had a bit of a flare-up and it weakened everything. Didn't get the planned lifts in, and barely touched the accessories. OHP was the worst. Didn't get a single rep at the planned weight, had to drop way down and make a few more reps. Still, it was painful. Wide-stance squats went ok, but that was the only thing that did.

    Tuesday, September 22. Week 40/12 Day 2

    Bench Press:
    192x3, 6 sets. Went for 7, but could only get 2 reps on the last set.

    Overhead Press :
    111x3, 0 sets. Couldn't do the first rep. Surprising and frustrating. The bar just wouldn't go up. Dropped down to 95 lbs and did a set of 4, then 5 sets of 5.

    Wider-stance Squat:
    173x5, 7 sets. At least one thing went right!


    Accessory -- Pullups: 13 + 14 + 14. Those felt weak too. There was no way I could do myo-reps, and the elbows were feeling pretty much out of it. So I ended on that note.

    Thursday I'll take a pre-workout aspirin, and see if elbow wraps help any.
    I'm out, standing in my field.

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  26. #296
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    Before I start Week 41 on Sunday, I need to post the tail end of week 40 on Thursday.

    Elbows still a bit problematic, although pre-workout aspirin did help some. Elbow wraps didn't help at all. The ones I have are velcro and kept popping off, they didn't provide any real support. The good news is that I did get all the basic compound lifts done, the bad news is that again, there was nothing left for accessories.

    The even worse news is that I learned of the death of a close friend that day, and really wasn't in to much of anything after that. I hadn't heard from him in several weeks, which concerned me, although going a week or two without some kind of communication wasn't really unusual. When I found out others hadn't heard from him either, I was more worried still, and went to his house. What I saw there led me to call the local sheriff to have them enter the house. The gate was open and the car was there, but nothing appeared to have been touched in a long time. The deputy arrived and entered the house, and discovered his remains. It was left to me to start informing the others who knew him. Not a fun evening.

    The workout was, at least to a certain extent, slightly cathartic.

    Thursday, September 24, Week 40/12, Day 3

    Deadlift:
    327x3, 7 sets.

    Close-Grip Bench:
    141x5, 7 sets. Elbow wraps popped open by the second or third rep of every set

    Paused Squat:
    156x5, 7 sets.

    Seated OHP:
    88x5, 7 sets. As with last week, using a high-backed chair made them easier.

    No accessories.

    Pretty sure I'll be in a better state tomorrow.
    I'm out, standing in my field.

    65 and still a newbie.
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  27. #297
    Registered User HomeGymChains's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear about the elbow problems.

    Much sorrier to hear about the death of your friend.

    Wishing you peace.
    At age 62, I've exceeded all my prior PRs. Not “over the hill” yet. :)

    My workout journal is here:
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  28. #298
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    Good looking sessions going on in here Dave. Quite heavy on the deads. That's strange about your elbows. I would say that if it is both of them then something with the new program is giving them a hard time? Did you do a big increase in volume or start doing a lift that you aren't used to? Very sorry to hear about your friend. You will be in my thoughts and prayers.
    All-Time PR's and Info:
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    Powerlifting: Squat: 315, Bench: 255, Deadlift: 420
    Running: 5K: 22:46, 10K: 49:49, 15K: 1:28:08, 13.1: 2:03:00
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  29. #299
    🥋 A Karate Kid age 61 Samraiwise's Avatar
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    Dave, I'm sorry. But there's the one thing which is true.

    He's lucky to have you. He must have been a good person to have you as your angel, even after his final departure. *bow*

    Spoiler!
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    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=178526741
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    Thanks, guys. He was a good friend, but mostly estranged from his family. He had no wife or kids, and I think my wife and I were the people he was closest to. I worked with him for 20 years, and probably knew him better than anybody did -- and there was a lot I didn't know.

    Still, he was overweight and diabetic, clung to his bad eating habits, and was iffy about his medications -- which was understandable at least, since I'm not convinced they were properly prescribed. There was always a worry that he was subject to bad interactions from them. He'd gone into diabetic shock a couple of times before, and I would not be surprised if this was what took him out. I tried to encourage him where I could to work on his health, and a couple of times used my own cancer survival as an example of the benefits of taking care of one's body, but there's only so much one can do in that direction without becoming a nag and a boor.

    Sunday was my scheduled workout evening, but we got a visit from a mutual friend who was also there for his sister (who by all accounts is a good person, and whatever the reason for their non-communication, probably didn't deserve to be shut out of his life). We had the spare key to his house and post office box, which as next of kin she was going to need to start settling his affairs. We ended up reminiscing and chatting far into the night, so there was no workout.

    As a result, I've shifted to a Monday/Wednesday/Friday schedule now, so Monday night was my first workout of Week 41/13.

    Still weighing in on Sunday morning, this time at 162.4 lbs.

    Monday, September 28


    Squat:
    256x2, 7 sets

    Stiff-Legged Deadlift:
    185x4, 7 sets

    Incline Press:
    148x4, 7 sets


    Accessories:
    Pullups + 45 lbs, 7 + 7 + 6
    Chinups + 45 lbs, 7 + 6


    Pushups w/grip handles, toes elevated 3.5", hands down just above waist level: 30 x 3.

    The pullups improved a little since last week, the pushups held steady. Now I hope I can be more consistent about completing them this week.

    Tonight, I get to try bench presses above 200 lbs for the first time in forever. Wish me luck!
    I'm out, standing in my field.

    65 and still a newbie.
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