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  1. #1
    Registered User Minke0's Avatar
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    Protein supplement choices

    I am a 44yo male. I have lifted weights for over 20 years but had a slow down in the last 8. I am back at the gym more regularly and hoping to bulk again. I am 5'7 174ish and I was hoping someone in a similar situation could suggest a supplement in the market to help with that.

    Thanks
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  2. #2
    I'm the beast Iceman1800's Avatar
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    Dymatize is my favorite protein powder but whole food is really your starting point. You can do well with just your basics. Meat, eggs, dairy, stuff like that.
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    LisaSkinnoble's Man -=FLEX=-'s Avatar
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    Meat & eggs.

    If you must supplement with whey, just get the cheapest isolate you can find. Brands don't matter.
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    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Minke0 View Post
    I am a 44yo male. I have lifted weights for over 20 years but had a slow down in the last 8. I am back at the gym more regularly and hoping to bulk again. I am 5'7 174ish and I was hoping someone in a similar situation could suggest a supplement in the market to help with that.

    Thanks

    Food. Does not matter where your protein comes from. Just hit your nutritional needs. "Bulking" is not about protein, but rather cals in general. When eating to gain weight, it usually means more carbs. (not a hard thing to find sources of )

    As for protein, ON 100% is hard to be beaten for value when it comes to $/g or protein. Many of the 'cheaper' proteins are actually more expensive when measured against this metric.

    Me, my whey staple is just 100% pure unflavored whey isolate (cold process, micro filtered). I buy it in 44lb (25kg) bags. As you can guess, I rely heavily on whey supplementation to meet my protein needs, otherwise, it would take me eating approx 3lbs of a meat a day to hit the levels of protein I eat.
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  5. #5
    Chihuahua in the rain Corbets's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    otherwise, it would take me eating approx 3lbs of a meat a day to hit the levels of protein I eat.
    Which... sounds like a perfect day to me.

    3lbs of meat.

    Perfect.

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  6. #6
    Registered User Garage Rat's Avatar
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    I agree with the above^^^^.
    Real food should be you first choice if possible.
    Chicken,fish,eggs,meat as mentioned and to a lesser degree cottage cheese and yogurt non or low fat.
    Use you supplement protein as a supplement and don't depend it as a main source.
    I use a good whey protien isolate and or casein right after training or when i can't get a meal in.
    The whey is a faster acting and gets into the system fast where as the casein is a slow release over a period of time.
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  7. #7
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  8. #8
    Registered User x-trainer ben's Avatar
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    Seafood eggs, isolate shakes and meat in that order for me.
    2 shakes and 2 or 3 meals spaced apart depending how i feel.
    Seems to work for me.
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  9. #9
    Weak and foolish OldFartTom's Avatar
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    Supplementation with whey protein isolate is very useful to keep protein up when you are on a restrictive calorie diet --> But if you're bulking (i.e. can have a few more calories) then you've lost the main benefit of it.

    Scrambled eggs with Tabasco is my recommendation if you're bulking
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  10. #10
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OldFartTom View Post

    Scrambled eggs with Tabasco is my recommendation if you're bulking
    Eggs, while a 'good' food, dont really have that much protein. At 6g/egg, you have to eat a crap ton of eggs to get significant protein from them.



    What is evident, is that very few people have any real idea of how much protein they are actually intaking. I too was once in that camp. Thought I at a 'good' diet. Then I tracked for a week, and found out I only really was getting 100-120 g.


    If you are eating on the LOW end of protein and getting all of it from lean meats, you need 1.5lbs of lean meat to hit 150g. My guess is most dont get that much.


    I have eaten 200+ (Mostly in the 220-250g/day) consistently for the last 10 years....every day. I rely heavily on whey to do it, calorie-restricted or not. I generally eat aprox 1lb lean meat a day, plus some dairy. Rest is whey.


    Do you have to eat that much protein?..... I am not sure. If I had a twin, maybe we could do a study. But I would rather err on the side of caution than realize I had fallen short due to dietary needs. Protein levels are the one area that I have not second-guessed.

    All I know is anyone I have ever met that truly carries large (like not just average) amounts of muscle and has done so for years and years, eats at aprox 1g/lb. Throw all the scientific studies you want out there, but most of those are not being carried out on the top .05% of the population when it comes to carrying muscle mass. I choose to side with bro-science here.
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  11. #11
    Weak and foolish OldFartTom's Avatar
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    3 large eggs whole, scrambled eggs = 1shake = 20g (give or take a bit). 0g protein from the Tabasco the benefits are culinary. I know that for 20g protein I'd be happier (YMMV) eating the eggs. Maybe at my lower bodyweight eating enough protein is easier to achieve?

    You make a very good point. Many people count calories daily but just guess the protein (sometimes just pull some number out of their azz). At times I've been guilty myself.

    Edit: I re-read your post and dug out the bag of whey from the back of the under sink cupboard where it's been "hiding" for a while
    Last edited by OldFartTom; 12-22-2019 at 02:18 AM.
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  12. #12
    In search of V-Taper ectoBgone's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OldFartTom View Post
    3 large eggs whole, scrambled eggs = 1shake = 20g (give or take a bit).
    Takes you twice as many calories to get there though and when you are trying to get around 40g or so per meal without blowing your calorie budget, that's where whey can be especially helpful. I eat whole eggs primarily for the fat content over the protein. What I usually do though is scramble 2-3 eggs with 1 cup of liquid egg whites poured in, and throw in a slice of swiss for added taste and texture (helps with the stickiness of all the whites). This delivers around 45-50g of protein at around 400 cals.
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  13. #13
    Registered User Gabbar99's Avatar
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    Don't disagree with anything said, but I've never understood why whey isn't "real food".

    As others have said, whey is about as good as you can get in protein per calories or protein per cost. See below. I'm sure it'd be even cheaper to get the cheapest protein in the largest size.

    cals per gram of protein , cents per gram of protein
    EAS whey conc 5.7 , 2.2 (isolate is 4.4 cals/gm)
    Skim milk 10.3 , 2.6
    whole egg 11.7 , 2.6
    egg white 4.7 , 4.6
    greek yoghurt 5 , 8.7
    fat free cot cheese 6.4 , 18.1
    almond milk 40 , 54.3
    skinless chick bst 4.8 ,
    steelcut oats 30 ,
    avocado 55 ,
    rice milk 160 ,
    Last edited by Gabbar99; 12-22-2019 at 06:47 AM.
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  14. #14
    Grumpy Old Dwarf MCrow's Avatar
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    Get as much as you can from real food.

    Supplement when needed. I've liked Dymatize, ON and even GNC brand protein when on sale.
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    Registered User adamgentile's Avatar
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    Definitely food first. If you want a good whey supplement I recommend Dynatize ISO100. It’s lactose free as well. This is the only supp I take.
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  16. #16
    I'm the beast Iceman1800's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Gabbar99 View Post
    Don't disagree with anything said, but I've never understood why whey isn't "real food".

    As others have said, whey is about as good as you can get in protein per calories or protein per cost. See below. I'm sure it'd be even cheaper to get the cheapest protein in the largest size.
    It's not that whey isn't real food tho. It's more the fact that shakes aren't filling. Whole foods won't leave you hungry 30 minutes later like a shake would.
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  17. #17
    Grumpy Old Dwarf MCrow's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Gabbar99 View Post
    Don't disagree with anything said, but I've never understood why whey isn't "real food".

    As others have said, whey is about as good as you can get in protein per calories or protein per cost. See below. I'm sure it'd be even cheaper to get the cheapest protein in the largest size.

    cals per gram of protein , cents per gram of protein
    EAS whey conc 5.7 , 2.2 (isolate is 4.4 cals/gm)
    Skim milk 10.3 , 2.6
    whole egg 11.7 , 2.6
    egg white 4.7 , 4.6
    greek yoghurt 5 , 8.7
    fat free cot cheese 6.4 , 18.1
    almond milk 40 , 54.3
    skinless chick bst 4.8 ,
    steelcut oats 30 ,
    avocado 55 ,
    rice milk 160 ,
    Whey is often filled with a lot of artificial ****.

    It also typically doesn't have the micronutient profile meat has.

    I'm not against whey but if you are and average lifter and taking like 4-6 scoops of that stuff a day instead of eating more meat you may be missing micronutrients you could need.
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    Originally Posted by MCrow View Post
    Whey is often filled with a lot of artificial ****.
    And it's often not. Just like meat. Buy the pure stuff.

    Disclaimer: It's been like a year since I've had whey. I eat A LOT of meat.
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    Grumpy Old Dwarf MCrow's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Gabbar99 View Post
    And it's often not. Just like meat. Buy the pure stuff.

    Disclaimer: It's been like a year since I've had whey. I eat A LOT of meat.
    Yes, if you buy pure, unflavored, whey it's probably better but trying to eat it without adding a bunch of stuff is pretty gross.
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  20. #20
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MCrow View Post
    Whey is often filled with a lot of artificial ****.

    It also typically doesn't have the micronutient profile meat has.

    I'm not against whey but if you are and average lifter and taking like 4-6 scoops of that stuff a day instead of eating more meat you may be missing micronutrients you could need.

    The micro/macro nutrient profile of cold process whey has MANY health benefits beyond just being a protein source.

    This is my go-to source.....Yep, 44lbs at time

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  21. #21
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    The micro/macro nutrient profile of cold process whey has MANY health benefits beyond just being a protein source.

    This is my go-to source.....Yep, 44lbs at time

    Yes, there are benefits to whey, no doubt, just saying it shouldn't make up the bulk of your protein intake.
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    Originally Posted by MCrow View Post
    Yes, there are benefits to whey, no doubt, just saying it shouldn't make up the bulk of your protein intake.
    Whey makes up a significant portion of my protein intake. I eat and have eaten 200-250 g of protein daily (like really....every day) for the past 10 years.


    I just dont see myself wanting to eat 3lbs of meat a day. I only eat about 1 lb daily. The rest comes from dairy and whey. So 1/2-1/3 of my intake for the past decade has been whey.


    LOTS of people say things like "you should eat only food", but my guess it very few people who say that actually get significant levels of protein to support mass at the outer edge of the curve.

    Being 'normal' is pretty easy. No whey needed. Simply to be fit, and have 'abs' sure, not necessary to supplement whey. But to consistently day in and day out eat higher protein levels that may be required at the outer ends of the spectrum.....I dont see many people doing it.

    Not to mention the economics of it. But to eat 250g of protein from lean beef every day would cost you about $500/ month in just your protein source alone. (assuming aprox $6/lb for lean beef).


    Lots of advice being given out by guys who are essentially 'normal'. Yes 'normal' diets work for you. If a guy wants to really maximize his results, he can not eat 'normally'.

    Part of me wonders if I really have needed the 200+g/day. I dont know. But again....every one I have ever met that has a superior build have one thing in common. They all eat 1g (or more) of protein per lb of bodyweight. Quote all the science you want.... They are not studying the most elite. They are studying the 'norm'.
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    I don't rely on whey so much now that I'm bulking, because I get hungry and a shake doesn't fill me.

    When I do have it, I mix it into a thick paste, add coca powder, raisins and rice crispies, then leave it to go hard in the fridge overnight, and I eat it straight after my workout.

    I eat just under a pound of meat each day but I count protein from oats, bread and all of the "incomplete" sources too.
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    I like whey because it's easy, I don't have to prepare as many meals (or stuff my face as much when I do prepare them). Also even the GNC stuff I buy is cheaper than whole sources like meat and cheese.

    3 pounds of meat doesn't sound bad to me, but also it's completely unnecessary, especially if you can digest dairy.

    "Eggs only have a piddly 6 grams of protein and are therefore useless" (paraphrasing).
    6 grams adds up, especially 6 grams per 50 calories. That's a very high protein/calorie ratio. Sure an egg or two isn't gonna make your day. Nuts are much higher in fat than protein - one could say not worth it. But they still offer a lot of protein. Add it up.
    3 eggs - 18g
    1/2 cup nuts - 10g
    2 cups milk - 16g
    2 servings cheese - 14g
    1 lb meat - 100g

    Add in "non protein" sources:
    2 cups cereal - 9g
    3 slices bread - 11g
    1/2 pound pasta - 28g
    2 servings veggies - 9g

    That's about 214g protein.
    Sure the meat is the largest single source, but it's less than half the total
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    Whey makes up a significant portion of my protein intake. I eat and have eaten 200-250 g of protein daily (like really....every day) for the past 10 years.


    I just dont see myself wanting to eat 3lbs of meat a day. I only eat about 1 lb daily. The rest comes from dairy and whey. So 1/2-1/3 of my intake for the past decade has been whey.


    LOTS of people say things like "you should eat only food", but my guess it very few people who say that actually get significant levels of protein to support mass at the outer edge of the curve.

    Being 'normal' is pretty easy. No whey needed. Simply to be fit, and have 'abs' sure, not necessary to supplement whey. But to consistently day in and day out eat higher protein levels that may be required at the outer ends of the spectrum.....I dont see many people doing it.

    Not to mention the economics of it. But to eat 250g of protein from lean beef every day would cost you about $500/ month in just your protein source alone. (assuming aprox $6/lb for lean beef).


    Lots of advice being given out by guys who are essentially 'normal'. Yes 'normal' diets work for you. If a guy wants to really maximize his results, he can not eat 'normally'.

    Part of me wonders if I really have needed the 200+g/day. I dont know. But again....every one I have ever met that has a superior build have one thing in common. They all eat 1g (or more) of protein per lb of bodyweight. Quote all the science you want.... They are not studying the most elite. They are studying the 'norm'.

    If your avi is accurate you have more lean mass and are more lean than most people. Obviously, the bigger and leaner you are the more you're going to have to lean on whey to be practical.
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    Originally Posted by jademonkey View Post
    1/2 pound pasta - 28g

    WOW....that is 1000 cals a day in just pasta. You a marathon runner? You eat more carbs in just your pasta than I eat in an entire day....

    200g from pasta

    Plus 3 slices bread 75 +/-

    Plus 2 cups cereal 100g

    Plus milk 22g


    You are eating 400g of carbs/ day.


    I just cant to that. I probably have 40+lbs more lean mass than you and I dont eat 400g of carbs a day. (wish I could). Who knows, maybe you run marathons...? I dont know.



    Regardless....sure, you can eat 200+ grams of protein from food in a day. I see very few people who do it consistently for years and years at a time and keep it up. Eating is the hardest part of this game in my opinion. Eating to get big is ever tougher. I have gained and lost 100's of lbs trying to add lean mass.

    Whey is a super effective tool in the arsenal so that you are not nearly as big a slave to eating (and preparing food daily). It's makes macros more flexible, and relieves the ability to be away from home and get your desired intake easier.


    Not sure how long you have been doing this. But if you did just start in 2018, look me up in 2028 and see if you can keep it up......
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    Originally Posted by MCrow View Post
    If your avi is accurate you have more lean mass and are more lean than most people. Obviously, the bigger and leaner you are the more you're going to have to lean on whey to be practical.
    That is just it. It really does make things more practical AND flexible.

    But I would almost argue I need it's flexibility more when I started back. (before pic from 10 years ago), than I do now. (lower pic).

    What whey does for me now is allow me much more flexibility on my intake. I can hit my desired amounts of protein while having the choice of where I get the remaining macros. This makes my intake MUCH more flexible. (and liveable on a daily basis). That is the shape I stay in year round....and no cardio (although I should be doing some for sure).

    Boy the thought of not being able to rely on whey is terrifying. I would get so damn sick of chicken breast, I would be sprouting feathers!!! Instead, I pretty much eat whatever I want and balance my macros now just by feel.





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    Grumpy Old Dwarf MCrow's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    That is just it. It really does make things more practical AND flexible.

    But I would almost argue I need it's flexibility more when I started back. (before pic from 10 years ago), than I do now. (lower pic).

    What whey does for me now is allow me much more flexibility on my intake. I can hit my desired amounts of protein while having the choice of where I get the remaining macros. This makes my intake MUCH more flexible. (and liveable on a daily basis). That is the shape I stay in year round....and no cardio (although I should be doing some for sure).

    Boy the thought of not being able to rely on whey is terrifying. I would get so damn sick of chicken breast, I would be sprouting feathers!!! Instead, I pretty much eat whatever I want and balance my macros now just by feel.





    Yeah, I wasn't meaning to make it sound like whey is bad for you or that you can't make gains just on that for protein. I think a varied diet is best for overall health but for body composition it makes no difference.

    When you big enough to have to eat 200+g of protein a day you have to eat 2-3lbs of meat a day it can be difficult. Just the volume of meat alone can be hard on the gut and then all the cooking added to it. Whey is superior for convenient, no doubt about that. In my mind it was , all else equal, meat> whey but when looking at it from a practical point of view it's more even than that.
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    WOW....that is 1000 cals a day in just pasta. You a marathon runner? You eat more carbs in just your pasta than I eat in an entire day....

    200g from pasta

    Plus 3 slices bread 75 +/-

    Plus 2 cups cereal 100g

    Plus milk 22g


    You are eating 400g of carbs/ day.


    I just cant to that. I probably have 40+lbs more lean mass than you and I dont eat 400g of carbs a day. (wish I could). Who knows, maybe you run marathons...? I dont know.



    Regardless....sure, you can eat 200+ grams of protein from food in a day. I see very few people who do it consistently for years and years at a time and keep it up. Eating is the hardest part of this game in my opinion. Eating to get big is ever tougher. I have gained and lost 100's of lbs trying to add lean mass.

    Whey is a super effective tool in the arsenal so that you are not nearly as big a slave to eating (and preparing food daily). It's makes macros more flexible, and relieves the ability to be away from home and get your desired intake easier.


    Not sure how long you have been doing this. But if you did just start in 2018, look me up in 2028 and see if you can keep it up......
    Yeah just started last October. After I quit 5 years of bike racing almost every weekend, which is where my high carb habits took hold. That and it was a cheap way for my parents to feed 7 kids.

    I didn't mean to list exactly what I eat in a day, just an example of various things I might eat in a day that include little bits of protein that add up. I only said 1/2 pound of pasta cuz I thought I'd be judged if I told you all how much pasta I really eat! But really since I quit racing I do eat less pasta... most of the time. I agree whey makes everything easier and more flexible. But as long as all my work snacks are protein heavy and I have a major protein source with dinner, I'll always hit my protein requirement. Sure I'm only 177 lbs, but as weight goes up so does total calorie needs - as long as food type ratio stays the same protein intake should still be sufficient.
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    Thanks

    Thanks. All very useful information. I am new to this forum, took me a while to realize there were answers to my thread. Aside from a protein based diet, I have in the past bulked considerably with high caloric supplements. I also used creatine for many years, but stop because of reocurring kidney stones (not fun). In the last 10 years, my workout routine was pretty sporadic, and so my weight also dropped. I am hoping yo get back to 190lb in the next 24 months, but I realize tat putting up muscle at 44 is not the same as at 28, so I am wary of using the same supplements I did as a young man. Food (literally) for thought. Thanks again for all the thoughtful comments.
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