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  1. #1
    Registered User RkSwift's Avatar
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    Keep bulking, maintain, or cut?

    Currently sitting at 147lb morning weight, prob like 16% bf
    Started at 125 in august, goal was to hit 160 then cut back to 145 but not too sure anymore.
    bench went from 90 to 120x5

    I know it hasn't been that long of a bulk and pretty rushed but im curious to see if cutting to 135 and then lean bulking the proper way will be more efficient.
    The picture where I was much leaner was after about 50 days into my working out journey a little over a year ago ( I started partying almost every day and not working out for the first 6 months of this year) and set myself back to the start.
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    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Why did you bulk this fast?

    You gained 22lb in 4.5 months... it should have taken you a year or so to gain that much weight...

    What kind of progress did you make in the gym?
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    Bodyweight isn’t everything.......but body composition is. Op, you bulked too much, too fast.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Why did you bulk this fast?

    You gained 22lb in 4.5 months... it should have taken you a year or so to gain that much weight...

    What kind of progress did you make in the gym?
    Tbh I have no idea. Just moved to another state and had nothing to do till I started school again and I overestimated how much muscle I would gain lmao. I now know better.
    I definitely got stronger in compounds
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    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RkSwift View Post
    Tbh I have no idea. Just moved to another state and had nothing to do till I started school again and I overestimated how much muscle I would gain lmao. I now know better.
    I definitely got stronger in compounds
    How much stronger
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    How much stronger
    1RM bench 100->125, squat 130->170
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    You could have those numbers with no weight gain needed and/or at a minimal small caloric surplus.

    I would back down to maintenance.
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    What lifting program are you on?
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    Agree with everyone above, too much weight gain in a short amount of time. My recommendation would be to cut about 10lbs off and switch back to gaining. However, aim to gain 0.5lbs a week (2lbs a month) while focusing on your lifts. This approach would have you looking lean while gaining for a decent period of time.
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    Now time to find a solid cutting program, any recommendations?
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    Originally Posted by RkSwift View Post
    Now time to find a solid cutting program, any recommendations?
    You could also keep on your current routine while eating at maintenance for a short period to transition into a cutting phase.

    Might help with the transition mentally and physically if you’ve really been bulking THAT hard for a while. I find cutting calories by a large amount or adding calories by a large amount at once to cause me problems. Your choice though. You have gained too much fat, but you’re not fat imo.
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    Registered User RkSwift's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Nicksosure1 View Post
    You could also keep on your current routine while eating at maintenance for a short period to transition into a cutting phase.

    Might help with the transition mentally and physically if you’ve really been bulking THAT hard for a while. I find cutting calories by a large amount or adding calories by a large amount at once to cause me problems. Your choice though. You have gained too much fat, but you’re not fat imo.
    Dont really feel fat but I definitely want to be leaner. Should I try to lose at the same rate of a lean bulk. Perhaps 0.5lbs/week?
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    Registered User Nicksosure1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RkSwift View Post
    Dont really feel fat but I definitely want to be leaner. Should I try to lose at the same rate of a lean bulk. Perhaps 0.5lbs/week?
    Wouldn’t be a bad move either imo. I think you’re in a position to definitely go slow in whatever you do now, but you have more options. If that makes sense..
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    Originally Posted by RkSwift View Post
    Dont really feel fat but I definitely want to be leaner. Should I try to lose at the same rate of a lean bulk. Perhaps 0.5lbs/week?
    That's too slow. Aim for 1 pound per week.

    What lifting program are you on?
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    Registered User Nicksosure1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    That's too slow. Aim for 1 pound per week.

    What lifting program are you on?
    Just curious, why do you think that would be too slow in his case?

    He's not overly fat and bulked too fast, I would think he'd still be able to potentially put on muscle at a rate loss of .5lb a week if he went about it the right way. The more steeper deficit, the more unlikely, right?

    I just don't view his position as one where he needs to lose a lot or gain a lot quickly, but rather actually focus on transforming his body the right way this time (whatever he decides to do) at a slow sustainable pace.

    Tell me why I'm wrong though, I'm thirsty and always trust your opinions.
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    Originally Posted by Nicksosure1 View Post
    Just curious, why do you think that would be too slow in his case?

    He's not overly fat and bulked too fast, I would think he'd still be able to potentially put on muscle at a rate loss of .5lb a week if he went about it the right way. The more steeper deficit, the more unlikely, right?

    I just don't view his position as one where he needs to lose a lot or gain a lot quickly, but rather actually focus on transforming his body the right way this time (whatever he decides to do) at a slow sustainable pace.

    Tell me why I'm wrong though, I'm thirsty and always trust your opinions.
    My opinion is based on the available evidence, with this being the most important study:

    "In conclusion, data from this study suggest that athletes who want to gain LBM and increase 1RM strength during a WL period combined with strength training should aim for a weekly BW loss of 0.7%."
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571

    0.7%*145 = 1 pound per week.

    Good to keep in mind: the men in this study were stronger than OP, yet they managed to gain LBM in a deficit, even when their weight loss was ±0.7% per week.
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    My opinion is based on the available evidence, with this being the most important study:

    "In conclusion, data from this study suggest that athletes who want to gain LBM and increase 1RM strength during a WL period combined with strength training should aim for a weekly BW loss of 0.7%."
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571

    0.7%*145 = 1 pound per week.

    Good to keep in mind: the men in this study were stronger than OP, yet they managed to gain LBM in a deficit, even when their weight loss was ±0.7% per week.
    I gotcha.

    I would just think it would be better in his case to go slower. The subjects in the study were more advanced yes, so OP definitely should still have the opportunity to gain lbm and lose fat. But also, they were more advanced and part of a study, so their nutrition, training, supervision, and "instincts" from being more experienced are most-likely going to be more on-point than OP's.

    No science here to back up my opinion, just situational thinking. But, like I said, I trust you and your experience, so OP you should too.
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  18. #18
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RkSwift View Post
    Dont really feel fat but I definitely want to be leaner. Should I try to lose at the same rate of a lean bulk. Perhaps 0.5lbs/week?
    Rate of weight loss is 100% based on personal preference (assuming you're not starving yourself).

    If you don't feel bad in your skin, you are no where near high enough in body fat to be concerned health-wise.

    So if .5/week is cool with you, go for it.
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    There is definitely such a thing as losing weight too fast. When the male athletes in the Garthe study I cited above lost weight at ±1.4% of bodyweight per week they were losing some LBM. When they cut at 0.7% per week they gained some LBM.

    Could one cut too slow? Yes that's also possible. It's possible that TDEE adapts and the small deficit effectively becomes zero. And you're also spending too much and unnecessary time time in deficit. IMO better to just go with ±500 calories below maintenance for starters (for OP). Then adjust based on progress, performance and well being.

    Originally Posted by Nicksosure1 View Post
    He's not overly fat and bulked too fast, I would think he'd still be able to potentially put on muscle at a rate loss of .5lb a week if he went about it the right way. The more steeper deficit, the more unlikely, right?
    In that case you're aiming at a recomp, which is a viable strategy too.

    If the goal is fat loss I'd go with ±500 kcal deficit.
    Last edited by Mrpb; 12-18-2019 at 11:33 AM.
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    That's too slow. Aim for 1 pound per week.

    What lifting program are you on?
    Cant post links but you can find it if you search THE WINTER BULK-UP WORKOUT PLAN TO GAIN MUSCLE IN 4 WEEKS on google.
    Been on that program for little less than 2 months.

    Im at a crossroad because I feel as if I haven't really achieved enough muscle/strength growth up to now to end my bulk but on the other hand for a pure aesthetic sense cutting to 135 and bulking the correct way will help me keep my bf% below 15 while still making muscle and strength gains. If I were to cut 4lbs a month id be at 135 in mid-march ready to lean bulk.

    Putting aesthetics aside and trying to take advantage of noob gains as this will be my first year of real training, would it be optimal to continue to 160 and 2lbs a month for the next 6 months and then cutting back to 145?

    I appreciate everyones input and know I still have a **** ton to learn.
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    Originally Posted by RkSwift View Post
    THE WINTER BULK-UP WORKOUT PLAN TO GAIN MUSCLE IN 4 WEEKS on google.
    This is like taking financial advice from an article title "how to get rich quick!" or watching a Tai Lopez video. Chit is click bait bro.

    Quit wasting your time and get on a proven lifting routine.
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    Originally Posted by Jcart159 View Post
    This is like taking financial advice from an article title "how to get rich quick!" or watching a Tai Lopez video. Chit is click bait bro.

    Quit wasting your time and get on a proven lifting routine.
    tru
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    Originally Posted by RkSwift View Post
    Cant post links but you can find it if you search THE WINTER BULK-UP WORKOUT PLAN TO GAIN MUSCLE IN 4 WEEKS on google.
    Been on that program for little less than 2 months.

    Im at a crossroad because I feel as if I haven't really achieved enough muscle/strength growth up to now to end my bulk but on the other hand for a pure aesthetic sense cutting to 135 and bulking the correct way will help me keep my bf% below 15 while still making muscle and strength gains. If I were to cut 4lbs a month id be at 135 in mid-march ready to lean bulk.

    Putting aesthetics aside and trying to take advantage of noob gains as this will be my first year of real training, would it be optimal to continue to 160 and 2lbs a month for the next 6 months and then cutting back to 145?

    I appreciate everyones input and know I still have a **** ton to learn.
    I suggest Fierce 5 Novice routine.
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