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  1. #1
    ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Tamorlane's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Medicare for All Is Even Better Than You Thought

    Americans pay more than double per capita other developed nations and still have no universal health care coverage, leaving the people of the nation vulnerable while lining the pockets of the medical industry who have a stranglehold on the country. In the US, money reigns supreme even at the expense of the people. That's going to change soon. Quicker if Sanders gets the nomination and is elected as president.

    https://jacobinmag.com/2018/12/medic...y-peri-sanders

    Medicare for All advocates just received an early holiday present: a new study from the Political Economy Research Institute (PERI) at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst finds that single-payer health care will save the US $5.1 trillion over a decade while drastically cutting working-class Americans’ health spending. It’s the most robust, comprehensive study yet produced on Medicare for All, which has long been in need of easily citable research.

    The study analyzes Sen. Bernie Sanders’s Medicare for All Act from top to bottom, elaborating on several key aspects of the bill, including what the transition to a fully public, comprehensive, free-at-the-point-of-use health care system might look like and what impact the program will have on US residents. Most significantly, it answers the most common question single-payer advocates face: “How will we pay for it?”

    The findings are impressively thorough. Reaching nearly two hundred pages in length, the report has been praised by health policy experts for its sound methods and clarity. Alison Galvani of the Yale School of Public Health predicts it will become recognized as the “seminal analysis” of Medicare for All.

    Long plagued by accusations of ambiguity and impracticality, Medicare for All now has credible economic research its advocates can cite to supplement their core arguments: that single-payer health care will be a major working-class victory, that it will save lives, and that it will represent a seismic shift toward a more just, solidaristic society.
    the study:
    https://www.peri.umass.edu/publicati...dicare-for-all

    Spoiler!
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  2. #2
    Platinum User chaunce54's Avatar
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    That's the price WE pay so YOU can have your "free" healthcare...
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    Enjoy your job losses op
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    ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Tamorlane's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by topperstyle View Post
    Enjoy your job losses op
    whenever there has been drastic change for the better in America's history, there were conservatives there telling them it would destroy the country or couldn't happen.
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    Registered User isingmodel's Avatar
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    Medicare should be available to everyone but banning private insurance is silly. No countries ban private insurance, they just have a universal public option available, which the US needs.
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    ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Tamorlane's Avatar
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    from the article:

    'Before getting into any discussion of costs and savings, the PERI study zeroes in on the major improvement in health outcomes that Medicare for All will motivate. This is appropriate, as the fight for Medicare for All has always been first and foremost a fight for a better, healthier society. As the authors themselves state, “Medicare for All cannot be simply evaluated on the basis of economic impacts.”

    The research here is pretty well-established and self-explanatory. By guaranteeing high-quality health care as a human right and eliminating financial barriers to care, Medicare for All would provide preventative care and necessary treatment to huge swaths of the population who cannot currently afford it.

    Today, 28 million people are uninsured and an additional 85 million are underinsured, meaning out-of-pocket costs prohibit them from seeking necessary care. It’s not hard to understand why fully covering all of these people — together about one-third of the US population — will improve overall health outcomes.

    With universal coverage, people are more likely to receive regular primary care, helping to better manage chronic illnesses like heart disease. Doctors are also more likely to catch illnesses like cancer before they spiral out of control.

    Unsurprisingly, countries with single-payer systems surpass the US in nearly every health category, including life expectancy and mortality reduction, despite spending far less on health care than we do.

    Removing health care from the market and guaranteeing it instead as a right is the primary goal of single-payer health care. Doing so will eliminate countless early deaths and bankruptcies. But in order to make it possible, we need to answer practical questions about financing and transitioning into it. That’s where the PERI study shines.'
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  7. #7
    Angus McFife XIII badreligion's Avatar
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    So how will it be paid for then?
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    Angus McFife XIII badreligion's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    Medicare should be available to everyone but banning private insurance is silly. No countries ban private insurance, they just have a universal public option available, which the US needs.
    Not everyone, just legal citizens of the US.
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    720 Crew topperstyle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    whenever there has been drastic change for the better in America's history, there were conservatives there telling them it would destroy the country or couldn't happen.

    Imagine losing 72k jobs and telling the USA how to do things lol
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  10. #10
    Registered User isingmodel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by badreligion View Post
    Not everyone, just legal citizens of the US.
    Agreed. If Democrats would stop offering illegals healthcare and Republicans would stop denying Americans healthcare, then a seriously effective compromise could be reached.
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  11. #11
    ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Tamorlane's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by badreligion View Post
    So how will it be paid for then?
    from the article:

    How Much Do We Need to Raise?

    In order to tackle the question of paying for Medicare for All, we first need to know exactly how much it will cost the government.

    To come up with an accurate spending number, the PERI study takes two main factors into account: that demand for care will rise with universal coverage, bringing total annual health care spending up from $3.2 trillion to $3.6 trillion (likely a high estimate); and that massive savings in administrative, pharmaceutical, and provider payment spending will then bring total expenses back down from $3.6 trillion to $2.93 trillion.

    Using $2.93 trillion as its annual target, the study then factors in already existing public spending, which accounts for over 60 percent of total health spending. This includes spending for Medicare, Medicaid, and other public programs; health care coverage for federal employees; and the $332 billion in tax subsidies the government currently pays to private insurance companies.

    Altogether, public health care spending totals $1.884 trillion annually, which we can then subtract from the $2.93 trillion target. This means the government will actually need to raise just $1.05 trillion to fund Medicare for All.

    How Will We Pay for It?

    The most important thing to remember when discussing taxes and Medicare for All is that the new taxes are not an additional net cost or spending burden. Rather, they will amount to a mere fraction of what Americans currently spend on premiums, co-pays, and deductibles, which will all be eliminated.

    The PERI authors are quick to point out that there are many workable approaches to raising the needed $1.05 trillion in tax revenue, and that their proposed methods are not definitive. Their approach differs from the approach offered in Sanders’s bill, for instance. But they explain that they decided on these particular taxes in an effort to finance the program in a progressive manner, with the greatest savings going to the working class and the greatest burden falling on the wealthy.

    Here are the four taxes proposed in the study.

    Business premiums:
    As a rule, these will be set at 8 percent less than what a business currently spends on health care. Employers that don’t currently provide insurance will instead pay $500 per uncovered employee, with the smallest businesses excluded. After three years, this will transition into a flat 8.2 percent payroll tax. This will raise an estimated $623 billion each year, bringing us nearly 58 percent of the way to the $1.05 trillion goal.

    A sales tax on nonessential goods:
    This is the proposed tax that will most impact working people. Set at 3.75 percent and exempting families who would currently qualify for Medicaid, it will raise an estimated $196 billion. By only applying to nonessential goods, it’s intended to spare lower-income families — who spend a greater percentage of their income on essentials like food and housing — from being too harshly impacted. It’s a debatable approach, but as we’ll see, it nonetheless leads to massive overall savings.

    A tax on net worth over $1 million:
    A recurring tax of 0.36 percent on all wealth over $1 million, this will generate $193 billion annually. One of its stated goals is combating rising wealth inequality. It will in fact reduce inequality, but only slightly. For example, it will bring the average return for the wealthiest 1 percent of families down from 5.96 percent to 5.58 percent. This tax could easily be raised and the sales tax lowered. As the PERI authors repeatedly say, there are many workable approaches here.

    Taxing long-term capital gains as regular income:
    By taxing assets held for one year or longer as ordinary income (which is how short-term capital gains are already taxed) the government could raise a nice $69 billion per year. This will mostly impact the wealthy.

    Altogether, these proposed taxes will raise $1.08 trillion. This will completely fund Medicare for All and leave the program with an estimated $30 billion surplus.
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    Registered User BearyManilowe's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    from the article:
    Oh just raise 1.05 trillion after shuffling other costs around. Aren't libs telling us we're spending too much already? The answer to solve this is to spend more money? Got it. Logic.
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    Registered User isingmodel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BearyManilowe View Post
    Oh just raise 1.05 trillion after shuffling other costs around. Aren't libs telling us we're spending too much already? The answer to solve this is to spend more money? Got it. Logic.
    When do libs say we're spending too much? You sure you haven't gotten libs confused with, y'know, conservatives?
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    Registered User scheal's Avatar
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    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...-E-delays.html

    NHS winter crisis: Worst EVER delays in A&E and for cancer treatment as waiting list for surgery reaches ANOTHER record-high amid spike in flu and norovirus cases
    Just 81% of A&E patients were treated in four hours in November, data shows
    4.45million patients faced 18-week waits to have routine operations in October
    Number of cancer patients who started treatment within two months is just 83%
    Separate figures show norovirus is crippling the overwhelmed health service
    Lets stop anchor babies been born in american hospitals

    Lets stop all illegals from receiving any treatment unless fully paid for

    That's where we start
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    ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Tamorlane's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BearyManilowe View Post
    Oh just raise 1.05 trillion after shuffling other costs around. Aren't libs telling us we're spending too much already? The answer to solve this is to spend more money? Got it. Logic.
    Spending too much per capita and still not even having universal coverage. Do you understand what 'per capita' means?

    During the 2016 presidential campaign, Republican candidate Donald Trump promised he would eliminate the nation’s debt in eight years. Instead, his budgets would add $9.1 trillion during that time.
    https://www.thebalance.com/trump-pla...l-debt-4114401

    https://www.usdebtclock.org/

    America's 'war on terror' has cost the US nearly $6 trillion and killed roughly half a million people
    https://www.businessinsider.com/the-...illion-2018-11

    Time to invest in the country instead of lining the pockets of the wealthiest.
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    Spending too much per capita and still not even having universal coverage. Do you understand what 'per capita' means?

    During the 2016 presidential campaign, Republican candidate Donald Trump promised he would eliminate the nation’s debt in eight years. Instead, his budgets would add $9.1 trillion during that time.
    https://www.thebalance.com/trump-pla...l-debt-4114401

    https://www.usdebtclock.org/

    America's 'war on terror' has cost the US nearly $6 trillion and killed roughly half a million people
    https://www.businessinsider.com/the-...illion-2018-11

    Time to invest in the country instead of lining the pockets of the wealthiest.
    Wait a minute, in other threads you support our foreign policy. Hell, you lose your **** every time Trump talks about getting out of Afghanistan and Syria.
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    I’m simply stunned at how much Americans pay for a chitty inequal system

    That with a bit of bad luck would fuk them over too
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    Originally Posted by scheal View Post
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...-E-delays.html



    Lets stop anchor babies been born in american hospitals

    Lets stop all illegals from receiving any treatment unless fully paid for

    That's where we start
    10 years of Conservative party governance destroys the NHS

    Surely it will get better with another 5 years of them in power
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    Cold Hearted SOB Dave22reborn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    10 years of Conservative party governance destroys the NHS

    Surely it will get better with another 5 years of them in power
    Sorry that the people have spoken. Somebody upset with the election results?
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    ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Tamorlane's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dave22reborn View Post
    Wait a minute, in other threads you support our foreign policy. Hell, you lose your **** every time Trump talks about getting out of Afghanistan and Syria.
    No I don't. You're literally just making things up or misconstruing my arguments entirely, which is extremely common around here for people who only see black and white. I am for the most part against a foreign policy that helps private interests while harming the country and it's people, which is how I see both Iraq and Afghanistan and any other foreign invasion. The reality is that the US is the sole superpower on the planet with military bases strategically placed throughout the world and a navy more than double the size of all others. Americans have to decide if they want to continue feeding that or withdrawing and allowing the Chinese and Russians, who are both aggressively seeking expansion, to become dominant.

    I don't care about pulling out of Afghanistan or Syria, but if he does it secretly as a favor to a foreign leader with a horse in the race and no one knows the reason or what that leader got in return then the people have a right to be concerned and question. Especially when his top general secretary of defense, the very highly esteemed and respected within the military Mattis, quit because of it citing Trump helping the Russians either directly or indirectly.

    Now republican thought goes to smearing the reputation or character of Mattis as not credible.
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    Originally Posted by Dave22reborn View Post
    Sorry that the people have spoken. Somebody upset with the election results?
    The Conservative party has presided over the last 10 years of government and the current state of the NHS

    [ ] True
    [ ] False
    "What has destroyed every previous civilization has been the tendency to the unequal distribution of wealth and power" - Henry George

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    Registered User scheal's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    10 years of Conservative party governance destroys the NHS

    Surely it will get better with another 5 years of them in power
    And Blair ****ed the whole country up
    2nd Amendment

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    Being necessary to the security of a free State,
    The right of the people to keep and bear Arms,
    Shall not be infringed
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    Why wasn’t Obamacare a panacea for our healthcare woes? Pun intended. I thought we were good now. What happened? Also, inb4 Republicans are to blame.
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    kein mitleid fr mehrheit Stizzel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    Americans pay more than double per capita other developed nations and still have no universal health care coverage, leaving the people of the nation vulnerable while lining the pockets of the medical industry who have a stranglehold on the country. In the US, money reigns supreme even at the expense of the people. That's going to change soon. Quicker if Sanders gets the nomination and is elected as president.

    https://jacobinmag.com/2018/12/medic...y-peri-sanders



    the study:
    https://www.peri.umass.edu/publicati...dicare-for-all

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    I am the light OPGenesis's Avatar
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    Is Bernie running in Canada now?

    And doesn't Canada already have a universal healthcare system?

    Super confused.
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    Originally Posted by hendrixfreak70 View Post
    Why wasn’t Obamacare a panacea for our healthcare woes? Pun intended. I thought we were good now. What happened? Also, inb4 Republicans are to blame.
    Turbo regulating the private industry is not the answer. Provide a public option open to all, then let the private industry do its thing. Let people choose which they want, and for the people who don't have the luxury of choosing, they have public care available.
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    Originally Posted by Stizzel View Post
    Negged for communism
    a couple of years ago you were some newfound anarcho-communist who believed any government whatsoever was violence and taxation was theft. Then you turned into a totalitarian supporting Trump cultist. Your opinion is worthless, and scumbags like you will be looked back on as a failure for trying to equate helping the citizens and working class of a country with evil communism.
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    a couple of years ago you were some newfound anarcho-communist who believed any government whatsoever was violence and taxation was theft. Then you turned into a totalitarian supporting Trump cultist. Your opinion is worthless, and scumbags like you will be looked back on as a failure for trying to equate helping the citizens and working class of a country with evil communism.
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    kein mitleid fr mehrheit Stizzel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    a couple of years ago you were some newfound anarcho-communist who believed any government whatsoever was violence and taxation was theft. Then you turned into a totalitarian supporting Trump cultist. Your opinion is worthless, and scumbags like you will be looked back on as a failure for trying to equate helping the citizens and working class of a country with evil communism.
    Lol what
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    When do libs say we're spending too much? You sure you haven't gotten libs confused with, y'know, conservatives?
    Must be confusing Sillie with a lib I guess.
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