I am failing upward on the scale. Can you help me understand this?

[peterm28]

So as some of you know I am doing a drastic recomp with hours and hours of very high resistance cardio (sometimes I am in the gym for 3 hours) basically every single day and eating quite lean/minimal. I am doing some lifting too.

How can my bodyweight be going up? I don't understand it. What are some possibilities here?

[EDIT: I found some articles, which I link in a reply below, that might be explaining what's going on.

Original title of this post: "I am failing upward on the scale. Can you help me understand this?" Better title: " I am trending upward on the scale while on deficit. . Can you help me understand this?"

It seems my program is succeeding despite the unexpected weight change.]

[CommitmentRulz]

So as some of you know I am doing a drastic recomp with hours and hours of very high resistance cardio (sometimes I am in the gym for 3 hours) basically every single day and eating quite lean/minimal. I am doing some lifting too.

How can my bodyweight be going up? I don't understand it. What are some possibilities here?

You're eating more than you think.
Water weight due to stress of so much cardio.
Wonky scale.

[TolerantLactose]

"Drastic" recomp isn't a thing.

[PurmaBulker1984]

Sounds like you've crashed your metabolism. Good job. Your body will stop using calories for anything but basic survival, burn muscle and keep fat when it thinks its in danger. Your drastic change in diet and exertion has had the opposite effect you were hoping for. Hence why there are 20 threads on here telling you to knock it off.

[CommitmentRulz]

"Drastic" recomp isn't a thing.

Excellent point!

Recomp means losing fat while building muscle. Hours and hours of cardio is not doing that...

[Oleg1975K]

You are just a trolls! A guy tries to motivate millions of fat girls by his example, and instead you bring him back to this objective reality ! (((

[air2fakie]

In your last 10 posts everyone said what you’re doing doesn’t make sense and you responded that you’re very happy with the results, incl. even a few days ago.

What happened in the last few days?

[peterm28]

You're eating more than you think.
Water weight due to stress of so much cardio.
Wonky scale.

The first or second one is possible. I would rule out a wonky scale as it is a pretty expensive one and gives me high confidence in its reading, which is precise and calibrated.

How much water weight fluctuation is normal throughout a day? Just for kicks I did my cardio today without drinking any water (just 400 Calories worth according to the machine, but as usual it was on max resistance and I broke a sweat) and also used the toilet (took a dump, it wasn't much though) and got a weight of 83.6 kg versus 85 kg a few hours earlier, before the workout. Is this a reasonable fluctuation - 1.4 kg which is 3.08 lbs, just within a single day?

For the others asking in the thread, I'm still happy with my program but I want to understand these numbers and include them in my tracking.

I also want to explore the possibility that I might be actually putting on more muscle than the total that I'm losing in fat, despite the fact that I'm following my diet which is supposed to be a deficit. I didn't really consider this possibility because in every scenario, I expected my overall weight to be decreaasing on this program. I'm pretty shocked by the scale registering a higher value than a week ago.

[air2fakie]

I also want to explore the possibility that I might be actually putting on more muscle than the total that I'm losing in fat, despite the fact that I'm following my diet which is supposed to be a deficit. I didn't really consider this possibility because in every scenario, I expected my overall weight to be decreaasing on this program. I'm pretty shocked by the scale registering a higher value than a week ago.

You're shocked that your experiment isn't working?

Regardless, if you've discovered how to build muscle while on a deficit by only doing cardio and no weightlifting, I think you're sitting on a money-maker here.

[rsid97]

"Drastic" recomp isn't a thing.

Got to it before me. Exactly this ^

I also want to explore the possibility that I might be actually putting on more muscle than the total that I'm losing in fat, despite the fact that I'm following my diet which is supposed to be a deficit. I didn't really consider this possibility because in every scenario, I expected my overall weight to be decreaasing on this program. I'm pretty shocked by the scale registering a higher value than a week ago.

As many of us have implied in your lengthy previous threads,which you chose to repeatedly ignore, you're vastly underestimating the type and degree of stimulus required to give you any sort of a chance to build muscle while in a calorie deficit (to re-interate, for what its worth, doing 30 day cardio challenges on a 1100 cals isn't building muscle).

Adding to that point, on your previous experiment your net 'weight' loss was 1lb... so the actual amount of fat you lost was pretty negligible. So its not like you're losing massive amounts of fat or anything, so water weight could very easily override that.

Adding on to the points made by Commitment, water retention is also a factor. So its not just a question of water intake, but also how much water your body is holding. And that isn't simply a situation of monitoring water intake for a few hours before a workout.

There's also the likelihood that your metabolism is down regulating itself to adapt to the high amounts of cardio, nearly non-existent levels of muscle mass, and low calories, which may have coincided with an incorrect measurement of food intake and the water retention , putting you between a rock and a hard place.

[TolerantLactose]

I also want to explore the possibility that I might be actually putting on more muscle than the total that I'm losing in fat

The titular "failing upwards", as it were.

[peterm28]

At the end of this second 30-day challenge, which I think is going well, I expect you will be able to judge the change in my body composition from pictures taken in the same position and state.

I didn't get an answer to how my body weight shifted by 3 pounds in the course of a workout (even an intensive, sweaty one) in a single day. That is equivalent to 1.35 liters of water. Do we really sweat that much? (When sweating). Is that a normal weight fluctuation within a few hours?

[air2fakie]

It's your experiment, shouldn't you be answering it? Maybe it's that time of the month.

[TolerantLactose]

At the end of this second 30-day challenge, which I think is going well, I expect you will be able to judge the change in my body composition from pictures taken in the same position and state.

I didn't get an answer to how my body weight shifted by 3 pounds in the course of a workout (even an intensive, sweaty one) in a single day. That is equivalent to 1.35 liters of water. Do we really sweat that much? (When sweating). Is that a normal weight fluctuation within a few hours?

You gained muscle. This is a drastic recomp, after all.

[peterm28]

You gained muscle. This is a drastic recomp, after all.

Normally that should be max. +0.25 to +0.5 pounds of muscle gained per week according to a Google. I guess it's possible that my muscle growth rate exactly matches my fat loss rate.

In this case the other poster is right and I must be severely underestimating the Calories I am consuming, though. Because my target was much higher fat loss.

We will see what happens over another two weeks of this.

[peterm28]

This article seems like it might be explaining what's happened to me:

https://mennohenselmans.com/energy-balance-myths/

I got it by Googling "is it possible to gain weight while on a caloric deficit" - I expected the answer to be "no, of course not."

But it says:

"If you're gaining weight, you may still be in a deficit, because you can gain muscle faster than you lose fat. ... You can lose fat in a surplus if you rapidly gain muscle. You can gain fat in a deficit if you rapidly lose muscle mass."


Here is another article that says the same thing, though I just skimmed it, due to how long it is: https://muscleandstrengthpyramids.co...t-gain-weight/

I didn't watch it but this video is another one of the results on the above search: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuUh0fkmbyU

The bottom line is that at the end of my second 30-day experiment (in about 16 days) the pictures will speak for themselves.

The bottom lime is that I might be losing fat, gaining muscle, and overall gaining weight while on a Caloric surplus. Very surprising and unexpected. We'll see...

[Sherniee]

This article seems like it might be explaining what's happened to me:

https://mennohenselmans.com/energy-balance-myths/

I got it by Googling "is it possible to gain weight while on a caloric deficit" - I expected the answer to be "no, of course not."

But it says:

"If you're gaining weight, you may still be in a deficit, because you can gain muscle faster than you lose fat. ... You can lose fat in a surplus if you rapidly gain muscle. You can gain fat in a deficit if you rapidly lose muscle mass."


Here is another article that says the same thing, though I just skimmed it, due to how long it is: https://muscleandstrengthpyramids.co...t-gain-weight/

I didn't watch it but this video is another one of the results on the above search: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuUh0fkmbyU

The bottom line is that at the end of my second 30-day experiment (in about 16 days) the pictures will speak for themselves.

The bottom lime is that I might be losing fat, gaining muscle, and overall gaining weight while on a Caloric surplus. Very surprising and unexpected. We'll see...

Neither of those articles apply to you, my friend. I'm familiar with the "metabolic magic" chapter, what you're overlooking is that in the practical examples, body composition is used to demonstrate the weight gain.

1lbs loss per month is well within the margin of your weight fluctuating without any actual tissue loss/gain. Maybe you hold more/less water due to sodium/fibre/stress/carbs/etc- you could very well have the same amount of tissue and average a lower weight. Works in reverse as well. For all you know, nothing actually happened and you're just seeing a normal fluctuation.

[peterm28]

Neither of those articles apply to you, my friend. I'm familiar with the "metabolic magic" chapter, what you're overlooking is that in the practical examples, body composition is used to demonstrate the weight gain.

1lbs loss per month is well within the margin of your weight fluctuating without any actual tissue loss/gain. Maybe you hold more/less water due to sodium/fibre/stress/carbs/etc- you could very well have the same amount of tissue and average a lower weight. Works in reverse as well. For all you know, nothing actually happened and you're just seeing a normal fluctuation.

Sure, that's also possible. Can you help me understand 3 lb fluctuation before/after a gym session where I purposely didn't drink water but sweated a lot? (I also took a small dump, but that wasn't much). Can someone really sweat that much?

We will see what is going in with me soon. I started measuring my waist and biceps (not sure what else I should be measuring) in unflexed, unpumped state, to give me an additional data point.

Maybe like someone said the answer is that I just totally suck at counting calories, but I don't think so. We'll see after another 16 days of this.

[air2fakie]

Sure, that's also possible. Can you help me understand 3 lb fluctuation before/after a gym session where I purposely didn't drink water but sweated a lot? (I also took a small dump, but that wasn't much). Can someone really sweat that much?

We will see what is going in with me soon. I started measuring my waist and biceps (not sure what else I should be measuring) in unflexed, unpumped state, to give me an additional data point.

Maybe like someone said the answer is that I just totally suck at counting calories, but I don't think so. We'll see after another 16 days of this.

Have you noticed a decrease in your waist size and increase in your biceps size in these last 14 days? The best way to judge if your 30-day drastic recomp is working is to look in the mirror, not by weighing yourself before and after your workout/dumps.

[Heisman2]

Sure, that's also possible. Can you help me understand 3 lb fluctuation before/after a gym session where I purposely didn't drink water but sweated a lot? (I also took a small dump, but that wasn't much). Can someone really sweat that much?

According to this https://www.outsideonline.com/198689...during-workout the average person sweats 0.8-1.4 liters in 1 hour of exercise. You may be above average due to your max resistance cardio and associated sweat gains. 1.4 liters of water is ~3.2 pounds. So yes, it's easily possible you lost 3 pounds in one workout if you weren't drinking anything.

On that note, 2% dehydration is linked to decreased performance. If you stay hydrated while training you'll likely perform better and your drastic recomp may be even better.

[peterm28]

Have you noticed a decrease in your waist size and increase in your biceps size in these last 14 days? The best way to judge if your 30-day drastic recomp is working is to look in the mirror, not by weighing yourself before and after your workout/dumps.

Yes I have noticed my waist size decreasing. I have objective pants to measure against which I don't fit into as I bought them too small.

My biceps seem bigger to me, but I don't have an objective way to judge except trying to measure with a tape measure.

According to this https://www.outsideonline.com/198689...during-workout the average person sweats 0.8-1.4 liters in 1 hour of exercise. You may be above average due to your max resistance cardio and associated sweat gains. 1.4 liters of water is ~3.2 pounds. So yes, it's easily possible you lost 3 pounds in one workout if you weren't drinking anything.

On that note, 2% dehydration is linked to decreased performance. If you stay hydrated while training you'll likely perform better and your drastic recomp may be even better.

Thanks for that. (Not sure if you're being sarcastic). I do drink 1.5 liters of water during my workouts normally (this was just an exception) and drink a ton of water all day, especially since when I asked the board about creatine (which I take) they said I should increase my water intake.

From what I read, water retention from creatine happens especially in the first two weeks.

I'll keep you guys posted about the progress. We'll see what happens.

[CommitmentRulz]

You gained muscle. This is a drastic recomp, after all.

And this is an extra special drastic recomp! He's adding muscle without lifting weights and only doing hours of cardio a day.

[PurmaBulker1984]

Go Navy. I'd say you find others that don't suck. You can figure it out.

[jademonkey]

Yes you can easily sweat out 3 lbs in a few hours.

Once I did a 7 hour bike ride in hot weather. Drank 15 lbs of fluids while riding and still lost 8 lbs by the time I got home.