On bombings of Hiroshima and Nagazaki

[wincel]

It's funny because Buffalo was on the Soviets list of targets during the Cold War. In a nuclear exchange any target is on the table. That's war kiddo.

Its a good thing our military leaders dont make decisions based solely on feels.

Well aren't you a tough guy?

Did you ever stop to wonder why humans evolved empathy?

I'll let you think carefully about why that might help in iterated dilemma situations. Use a few brain cells, tough guy.

[XterraRob]

how terrible was soviet intel that they imagined it was a place worth bombing?

Not sure but the various locks for the St. Lawrence River would be a great target to cause havoc.

[IAMBEE]

Should have dropped one on Moscow in 1946, could have stop the spread of communism is its tracks.

Thats what Patton wanted and tried to get the war started on his own, CT people think this is part of the reason to murder him. Patton has nads of steel.

[IAMBEE]

Did you ever stop to wonder why humans evolved empathy?

Aren't you the guy that claims to have little to no empathy for the average person and all sloots?

[wincel]

Fun fact about nukes. In only 3.5 years, 3 physicists from Lawrence Livermore were able to build a crude nuke.

https://www.atomicheritage.org/histo...try-experiment

Anyone who wants a nuke can eventually get one. We cannot stop them. And if we open the doors to this type of weapon, well...I'm an atheist, but God help us.

[ScottTil]

generally you win wars by maximizing enemy casualties and minimizing your own.

[wincel]

Aren't you the guy that claims to have little to no empathy for the average person and all sloots?

Incidentally, empathy is different from oxytocin induced chauvinism. Does that invalidate my claim though? Isn't that just an ad hominem? I could be a mass murdering sociopath, and I wouldn't be wrong about what I said. Also, my desire to avoid nuclear warfare isn't simply due to compassion for others. It is also for my own self preservation. I feel you idiots are going to get us all killed.

[xxdef1antxx]

how terrible was soviet intel that they imagined it was a place worth bombing?

Well for one, WNY was one of the largest manufacturing regions during the cold war, including aerospace and other important war materials. Was also a major transportation hub for food and raw materials before the interstate system was created, and it is home to one of the most important hydro electric power plants on the east coast.

In fact it was so important that 120 nuclear armed BOMARC missiles were stationed at Niagara Falls AFB and we had a defensive ring of NIKE missiles active around the Buffalo/Niagara area as well as a SAGE air defense installation.

So yea, during the cold war WNY was a very strategically important place.

[homersexual]

If someone were to use a nuke and obliterate you out from your daddy's basement I'd say they're doing a favor to mankind.

[xxdef1antxx]

Well aren't you a tough guy?

Did you ever stop to wonder why humans evolved empathy?

I'll let you think carefully about why that might help in iterated dilemma situations. Use a few brain cells, tough guy.

Empathy is the shield that the weak hide behind to justify their weakness

[wincel]

We will almost certainly cause our extinction, and it is because of idiots like those in this thread.

Empathy is the shield that the weak hide behind to justify their weakness

Acting purely selfishly in your own interests can, in many situations, lead to the worst possible outcome for all involved, including you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison...'s_dilemma

[colormeconfused]

We will almost certainly cause our extinction, and it is because of idiots like those in this thread.



Acting purely selfishly in your own interests can, in many situations, lead to the worst possible outcome for all involved, including you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison...'s_dilemma

I did the math and you have an average of 30 posts per day since 2016.

Jesus...

[wincel]

I did the math and you have an average of 30 posts per day since 2016.

Jesus...

This is an underestimate since I have spent a lot of that time banned.

[Reliance012]

I have no problem with it. For the people thinking Japan would have surrendered, whether through persuasive measures (displaying our functional atomic bomb) or otherwise, you’re right. And then they would have almost certainly retaliated...

Japan was literally days or at most several weeks away from having successfully made their own atomic bomb. We knew they were close at the time, and now know through blueprints found years later they were VERY close.

If you think the Japanese empire would have just conditionally surrendered, and never retaliated with their own bomb I have a bridge to sell you. Russia was going to squeeze that country dry. Japan would have had their atomic bomb functional and would have used it, probably on the US too.

[wincel]

I have no problem with it. For the people thinking Japan would have surrendered, whether through persuasive measures (displaying our functional atomic bomb) or otherwise, you’re right. And then they would have almost certainly retaliated...

Japan was literally days or at most several weeks away from having successfully made their own atomic bomb. We knew they were close at the time, and now know through blueprints found years later they were VERY close.

If you think the Japanese empire would have just conditionally surrendered, and never retaliated with their own bomb I have a bridge to sell you. Russia was going to squeeze that country dry. Japan would have had their atomic bomb functional and would have used it, probably on the US too.

Why would they retaliate? If they retaliated, we would have nuked. And then they'd be right back to where they ended up. The assumption that all these people needed to die is false. You guys are doing all these weird gymnastics to justify it. It's sad. You simply cannot admit what happened.

They were not days or weeks from having their own bomb. That is a total lie.

[xxdef1antxx]

We will almost certainly cause our extinction, and it is because of idiots like those in this thread.



Acting purely selfishly in your own interests can, in many situations, lead to the worst possible outcome for all involved, including you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison...'s_dilemma

There is a time and place to be empathetic, an all out war is not one of them.

[wincel]

There is a time and place to be empathetic, an all out war is not one of them.

An all out war is exactly the place to be forgiving and empathetic, and in fact, that is what saved Japan's ass in the end. Otherwise, you get stuck in a cycle of vengeance and retaliation, leading to worse outcomes for all involved.

[Shortfuze]

Neither were necessary. Japan was on the verge of surrender and the generals at the time knew it.

True but it was not unconditional. The Allies would not accept anything less.

Also, let's not forget the deliberate targeting of civilians by Allied and Axis bombers. It was the British who came up with the policy of "carpet bombing" of German cities to break morale. Hell, Japan went a further step by using chemical and biological weapons on Chinese civilians.

[xxdef1antxx]

An all out war is exactly the place to be forgiving and empathetic, and in fact, that is what saved Japan's ass in the end. Otherwise, you get stuck in a cycle of vengeance and retaliation, leading to worse outcomes for all involved.

No, what saved Japans ass was unconditional surrender after a show of force so great that they finally realized how futile it was to continue on. The Atom bombs saved the Japanese from being split between two spheres of influence like Korea or Germany which in turn allowed them to become an economic powerhouse later in the century. Your lack of an overall understanding of the geopolitical climate of the time is astounding.

[XterraRob]

The power of nuclear weapons:

[wincel]

No, what saved Japans ass was unconditional surrender after a show of force so great that they finally realized how futile it was to continue on. The Atom bombs saved the Japanese from being split between two spheres of influence like Korea or Germany which in turn allowed them to become an economic powerhouse later in the century. Your lack of an overall understanding of the geopolitical climate of the time is astounding.

That unconditional surrender was the decision not to attempt retaliation. Think about that. They would have surrendered without the loss of life anyway.

[isingmodel]

True but it was not unconditional. The Allies would not accept anything less.

Also, let's not forget the deliberate targeting of civilians by Allied and Axis bombers. It was the British who came up with the policy of "carpet bombing" of German cities to break morale. Hell, Japan went a further step by using chemical and biological weapons on Chinese civilians.

No, not "the Allies". Just Truman and a few of his bureaucrat advisors.

Churchill had wanted the US to negotiate a surrender with Japan. US generals had advised against the bombing.

[XterraRob]

No, not "the Allies". Just Truman and a few of his bureaucrat advisors.

Churchill had wanted the US to negotiate a surrender with Japan. US generals had advised against the bombing.

The Russians were a formidable force and could have rolled over the rest of Europe if it so chose, we were only "allied" with them because we had a common enemy, one that was defeated in no small part thanks to the Red Army.

[dannyg1217]

democrats did this

[tunafishha]

I guess they shouldn't have sucker punched pearl harbor

Its called a carefully planned attacked. You do know thats how war works, right?

Wouldn't even use you as a human shield.

[kingmanaverage]

Exactly this. Winners decide what is a genocide and what is not.

Don't you deny the Armenian genocide by Turkey ?

Besides Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't really acts of genocide imo, I mean anything goes in war. Japan shouldn't have started s fight they couldn't finish.

[fishnbrah]

Its called a carefully planned attacked. You do know thats how war works, right?
.

you know we werent at war at the time, right?

[Dave22reborn]

No, not "the Allies". Just Truman and a few of his bureaucrat advisors.

Churchill had wanted the US to negotiate a surrender with Japan. US generals had advised against the bombing.

So we should have had a negotiated surrender with the Axis powers now.....or just Japan?

[isingmodel]

So we should have had a negotiated surrender with the Axis powers now.....or just Japan?

Since Japan actually wanted to surrender, probably Japan. Now can you stop asking dumb questions dave, this isn't preschool.

[Streetbull]

125,000 Allied POW’s on the Japanese mainland would have been slaughtered if Japan was invaded. Then there’s this: “Good evening my fellow Americans. I wish to tell you tonight that I spent 2 billion of your dollars on a weapon that could have ended the war but out of my humane concern for the Japanese people, I chose not to use it.” = Harry Truman’s last words before being publicly lynched.