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  1. #1
    Registered User Cautious1's Avatar
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    When should I bulk?

    Height: 5"11
    Current Weight: 77kg (168.7lbs)
    Age: 22

    I have been cutting for a while now and I have lost quite a bit of body fat. I am not skinny or fat. I just have some stomach and lower chest fat, I would say I have a decent base of muscle. I am not sure at what point I should start bulking.

    I was planning to start bulking at 70-71KG and have given myself 2 months to lose 7-6KG. Is losing 7-6KG within 2 months realistic? And is bulking at 70-71KG a good place to begin bulking?

    Late May 2019 - 83.6KG

    https://ibb.co/CQ3m94y - Side View
    https://ibb.co/WpgxDJN - Back View
    https://ibb.co/GPXG0cZ - Front View

    Early December 2019 - 77KG

    https://ibb.co/58wTJR2 - Side View
    https://ibb.co/VD0t3tv - Back View
    https://ibb.co/4ZHYHrm - Front View
    https://ibb.co/0yRVrwP - Fat
    Last edited by Cautious1; 12-09-2019 at 01:10 PM.
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  2. #2
    Registered User hardyboysare's Avatar
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    Post a pic for better advice.

    13-16lbs in two months. That is about 1.6lbs to 2lbs a week. Is it possible yes, would it be best course of action that depends how much overweight you are and your current caloric level.

    My gut feeling is no you won't achieve that fast of lose but many have proved me wrong.
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  3. #3
    Registered User Cautious1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hardyboysare View Post
    Post a pic for better advice.

    13-16lbs in two months. That is about 1.6lbs to 2lbs a week. Is it possible yes, would it be best course of action that depends how much overweight you are and your current caloric level.

    My gut feeling is no you won't achieve that fast of lose but many have proved me wrong.
    I'll need to take an updated pic & then I'll upload one. Dont think im overweight, i look slim and only have fat around my mid section and tiny bit on my lower chest, everywhere else is like a pinch of fat.

    I believe my maintenance is around 2400. Im eating 1500 calories & 2000 on Fridays. Im also lifting weight Monday - Thursday (No idea how many calories I burn by lifting weights) so my calories will be lower than 1500 at the end of the day.

    And yeh I agree with you with it taking a bit longer, not how how much longer because I do go over 1500 sometimes but still in a deficit.
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    Registered User hardyboysare's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cautious1 View Post
    I'll need to take an updated pic & then I'll upload one. Dont think im overweight, i look slim and only have fat around my mid section and tiny bit on my lower chest, everywhere else is like a pinch of fat.

    I believe my maintenance is around 2400. Im eating 1500 calories & 2000 on Fridays. Im also lifting weight Monday - Thursday (No idea how many calories I burn by lifting weights) so my calories will be lower than 1500 at the end of the day.

    And yeh I agree with you with it taking a bit longer, not how how much longer because I do go over 1500 sometimes but still in a deficit.
    If you are not overweight then I would not recommend trying to achieve anything above 1% of body weight a week. Once you get leaner this will decrease down to 0.5% of body weight per week as the potential of losing muscle increases. Leaner individuals need to take fat loss slower then someone who has a higher percent as your body will utilise muscle for energy if it needs to.

    At what percentage I don't have exact number but around the sub 14% (usually regarded as athlete stage) seems to be common thought in which fat loss needs to slow down this is shown it this analysis of fat loss in athletes and military personnel:-

    It is tempting to severely restrict energy intake to get quick weight-loss results. However, this approach, combined with an intense endurance and strength-training program, can actually increase metabolic adaptations that slow weight loss and diminish the additive effects of these two factors on weight loss [37]. Thus, this approach should be avoided [7, 10, 13, 36]. It is important to remember that with negative energy balance, lean, fit individuals can quickly lose lean tissue if energy is restricted too dramatically [39]. For example, Pasiakos et al. [43] placed active military personnel (BMI 25 ± 1 kg/m2) on a 40 % energy-restricted diet for 30 days, while being fed the recommended dietary allowance (RDA) for protein (0.8 g/kg/body weight). Of the 3.3 kg lost during this time (4.2 % body weight), 58 % was lean tissue (1.9 kg). In contrast, when Redman et al. [36] placed sedentary overweight individuals (BMI 27.8 kg/m2) on a 25 % energy-restriction diet for 3 months, they lost 6 kg, with only 33 % coming from lean tissue (2 kg). In addition, Garthe et al. [44] showed that slower, more reasonable weight loss in athletes (~0.7 % loss of body weight/week) helped preserve lean tissue while improving strength gains compared with more severe weight loss (1.4 % weight loss/week). Finally, severe energy restriction during times of high exercise has a number of other negative performance and health consequences for the athletes, as follows [10, 15]:

    Decreased sport performance effects due to decreased muscle strength, glycogen stores, concentration, coordination and training responses, and increased irritability.

    Increased negative health consequences, such as injury due to fatigue, loss of lean tissue, and poor nutrient intakes, including essential nutrients, due to limited food intake.

    Increased risk of disordered eating behaviors due to severe energy restriction.

    Increased risk of dehydration, especially if the diet is ketogenic.

    Increased emotional distress due to hunger, fatigue, and stress related to following an energy-restricted diet.

    Thus, for the athlete and active individual who already have a training or fitness program, it is better to moderately restrict energy intake (e.g., 500–700 kcal/day) and take longer to reach the weight loss goal [37, 44]. This approach also allows the time required to adapt to new dietary habits while making sure adequate energy is available for exercise training.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4672016/

    However a picture will offer more insight.
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  5. #5
    Registered User Cautious1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hardyboysare View Post
    If you are not overweight then I would not recommend trying to achieve anything above 1% of body weight a week. Once you get leaner this will decrease down to 0.5% of body weight per week as the potential of losing muscle increases. Leaner individuals need to take fat loss slower then someone who has a higher percent as your body will utilise muscle for energy if it needs to.

    At what percentage I don't have exact number but around the sub 14% (usually regarded as athlete stage) seems to be common thought in which fat loss needs to slow down this is shown it this analysis of fat loss in athletes and military personnel:-



    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4672016/

    However a picture will offer more insight.
    Thanks for the usefull information.

    I will take a photo tonight & upload for more insight. Is it best to take a picture when you have been off the gym for a couple days? As I look more more muscular and pumped even a few days after a workout & it fills out the fat mainly on my lower chest, not so much my mid section.
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  6. #6
    Registered User hardyboysare's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cautious1 View Post
    Thanks for the usefull information.

    I will take a photo tonight & upload for more insight. Is it best to take a picture when you have been off the gym for a couple days? As I look more more muscular and pumped even a few days after a workout & it fills out the fat mainly on my lower chest, not so much my mid section.
    It won't make any significant difference generally most people with a good eye for body composition will know what range you are in. It maybe out by a few percentage each way but generally it won't matter for your question.

    Pics unflexed and flexed full body are generally best. Under normal lighting as well.
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    Registered User Cautious1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hardyboysare View Post
    It won't make any significant difference generally most people with a good eye for body composition will know what range you are in. It maybe out by a few percentage each way but generally it won't matter for your question.

    Pics unflexed and flexed full body are generally best. Under normal lighting as well.
    I’ve editted my original post and have includes some pictures.

    Could I get some more insight e.g my body fat, physique etc..

    Everyone else’s opinions would also help
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    Registered User hardyboysare's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cautious1 View Post
    I’ve editted my original post and have includes some pictures.

    Could I get some more insight e.g my body fat, physique etc..

    Everyone else’s opinions would also help
    I would say you are near 20-21% therefore aiming for a lose of around 1% of total body weight per week is an acceptable target at least until you get around 72-73kg then I would lower this down to 1lb a week.

    You are going have to bulk at some point but I think you can cut a while longer yet aiming for 70kg is fine for now and review when you get closer (something like 73kg). I would probably start my bulk once I got to 13-15% if I was you.
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  9. #9
    Registered User Cautious1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hardyboysare View Post
    I would say you are near 20-21% therefore aiming for a lose of around 1% of total body weight per week is an acceptable target at least until you get around 72-73kg then I would lower this down to 1lb a week.

    You are going have to bulk at some point but I think you can cut a while longer yet aiming for 70kg is fine for now and review when you get closer (something like 73kg). I would probably start my bulk once I got to 13-15% if I was you.
    Thanks for the insight. Saying I aim for 0.7KG a week, how long would it take to get from 20% to 13-15%?
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    Originally Posted by Cautious1 View Post
    Thanks for the insight. Saying I aim for 0.7KG a week, how long would it take to get from 20% to 13-15%?
    If you are losing around 0.7kg a week then I think around 71-72 kg will be near that bracket (13-15% bf probably closer to 15%) of course depending on water loss and other stuff. Therefore around 8 weeks would be my guess with a comfortable area for miscounts, possible stalls etc (I am always cautious with target weights and how long it takes, generally its longer then you think it will be in my experience).

    0.7kg would be your max amount really in order to maintain your muscle mass whilst cutting at optimal level. Will you achieve it, that depends on your caloric deficit and possible water weight retention. You will need to ensure you are getting enough protein and weight training effectively as well.
    Last edited by hardyboysare; 12-09-2019 at 03:36 PM.
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    Registered User Cautious1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hardyboysare View Post
    If you are losing around 0.7kg a week then I think around 71-72 kg will be near that bracket (13-15% bf probably closer to 15%) of course depending on water loss and other stuff. Therefore around 8 weeks would be my guess with a comfortable area for miscounts, possible stalls etc (I am always cautious with target weights and how long it takes, generally its longer then you think it will be in my experience).

    0.7kg would be your max amount really in order to maintain your muscle mass whilst cutting at optimal level. Will you achieve it, that depends on your caloric deficit and possible water weight retention. You will need to ensure you are getting enough protein and weight training effectively as well.
    Thanks, the information has helped a lot. I will aim for 71-72KG by the end of January and start bulking
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    Does anyone have any opinions on my current physique? Am i Skinny fat? Am i lacking muscle, if so what areas? What body shape am I? etc..
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    Originally Posted by Cautious1 View Post
    Does anyone have any opinions on my current physique? Am i Skinny fat? Am i lacking muscle, if so what areas? What body shape am I? etc..
    You have to do both mass gain and fat loss - just like almost everyone when they start. If it were me, I'd start with some moderate dieting - pretty much as discussed above.
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    Cut further, I would say at least another 15 lbs. Just ensure you're lifting weights and getting enough protein to maintain muscle mass while you cut.
    All it takes is consistency, effort, proper nutrition, good programming, and TIME.
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    you got at least another 20-25 lbs of fat to lose. Go watch the video on youtube by coach Doucette about bodyfat. He is very knowledgeable. to look lean you need to lose way more fat than you think you have to.
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    From the before and after pics in the original post, I lost 14lbs and there isnt a great difference the way I look. I aim to lose another 10lbs from my current weight 166lb. Will I look significantly different after losing that 10lbs of fat?
    Last edited by Cautious1; 12-20-2019 at 08:48 AM.
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    Originally Posted by Cautious1 View Post
    From the before and after pics in the original post, I lost 14lbs and there isnt a great difference the way I look. I aim to lose another 10lbs from my current weight 166lb. Will I look significantly different after losing that 10lbs of fat?
    Maybe a little, but the general rule is: Whatever weight you think you'll look good at, subtract at least 15 lbs from that and thats what weight you'll actually look good at.
    All it takes is consistency, effort, proper nutrition, good programming, and TIME.
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