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  1. #1
    Registered User totalwreck's Avatar
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    Really complex issue that's compromised lifting

    EDIT NOT 49! 30. Right.... brace yourselves folks. Ideally this question is best placed to a physio board or something, but often lifters often have a greater understanding in relation to body mechanics effecting compound movements so here goes. With the absolute upmost of respect... no bro answers!

    Okay, so where to start? Well, early 20's I become interested in going to the gym, after a sedentary lifestyle, lots of computer games etc. I joined a gym and started to lift weights, with particular emphasis on the compound movements. My programme I was given was essentially a 5x5 routine across mon/wed/fri. This would include

    Low bar back squat
    Bench press
    Pendlay Row
    Deadlift
    Overhead Press.

    Now, i began getting various aches and pains, sharp electric shock sensations, sore knees, pulled lower back various times etc. i began to research what was going on, because in my head I knew how to implement safe positions but my BODY wasn't allowing it. So for example rounded lower back when picking up the bar for the deadlift, rounding during the squat etc.

    I saw a physio who told me okay, you need to go away and strengthen all of the muscles at the back of your body and stretch everything at the front. (I now know from my new physio that was twaddle that was "popular" advice at the time)

    So... here I am at 30. Persistant lower back aches as I walk, stand and do anything a functional human should be able to do. Neck aches, and just can't get in a comfortable sleeping position.

    I have JUST found a FABULOUS Physio and I can't stress I finally feel like he gets me he understands the issue. I think partly because he's familiar with the exercises I was trying to perform. So.… his diagnosis is this.

    Basically, nearly all the muscles in my body are all out of sync and imbalanced. He explained that the body is VERY clever and WILL find ways to adapt movements. I'm looking at a 2 year rehab programme at least.

    He said my upper back muscles aren't "doing anything"
    My glutes are substantially weak
    Hamstrings are weak
    Quads are weak

    He said did various leg tests and he said "You've HAD strength and power there and while yes you are resisting my force, that's muscle memory not actual power"

    Step 1. Long term insoles which I now have.
    Step 2: Strengthening progamme.

    So, I am now stuck on a leg curl, press and extension machine.

    On the leg extension at 20kg, my quadricep muscles are like I have parkinsons on the downward phase of the movment. The full machine was juddering.

    Hamstring curl i'm doing about 15-20 at a push but they will cramp...

    So all in all, I just wanted to ask... does this sound like I'm on the right track with the advice given and if anyone can explain how my issue has occurred and if what he is saying with a combination of insoles and machine weights, i'll be fixed.

    Step 3 is hack squat and glute hamraise
    Step 4 is Trap Bar deadlifts
    Final step: Back to traditional compound movments, injury free.
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  2. #2
    Registered User vristang's Avatar
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    This guy is saying you need 2yrs of therapy to be ready for a beginners program?
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  3. #3
    Registered User Garage Rat's Avatar
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    Get a good qualified trainer to get you going in the right direction.
    Those weaknesses are common to people who spend a lot of time at a computer and are in a bent upper back position.
    If you don't counter act it with exercise and mobility it will become more of an issue the older you get.
    As i mentioned get a PT/coach that can help you with the problem.
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  4. #4
    Registered User WolfRose7's Avatar
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    Step 1. Long term insoles which I now have. - No evidence for these
    Step 2: Strengthening progamme. - Sure

    So, I am now stuck on a leg curl, press and extension machine. - LoL...


    Your fabulous physio is a shill
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  5. #5
    Registered User CommitmentRulz's Avatar
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    Ask to see your physio's certification certificate. If it is on colored construction paper or is from a school named "Hank's School of..." you're getting ripped off by a fraud.

    You should not need 2 years of his specialized services to start a beginning lifting program.
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  6. #6
    Registered User totalwreck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CommitmentRulz View Post
    Ask to see your physio's certification certificate. If it is on colored construction paper or is from a school named "Hank's School of..." you're getting ripped off by a fraud.

    You should not need 2 years of his specialized services to start a beginning lifting program.
    LOL, no it's not two years of his services. His part is over now, he's scanned my feet and had my custom orthotics made, so that's problem 1 sorted. (These are long term, probably needed since teens and just not realized)

    So it's an aggressive 2 pronged approach. He's saying that if I DIDN'T do the exercises, the orthotics would solve the fundamental underlying issues of posture, but it would like 3/4 times as long.

    The programme he's devised is based on how I presented and I suppose how my muscles appeared and responding to his various tests. I told him I wanted to start my 5x5 programme again, but he said my body isn't at that level yet. He did explain the mechanics of the hamstrings and those being weak and glutes being weak means that the movements I WANT to perform, CANT recruit the muscles appropriately. For example at the moment, the lower back is doing the brunt of the work, when actually the glutes should be and so forth. So the plan is, get a basic fundamental strength in the legs and more importantly, get BALANCED strength. Does this make sense to anyone?
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  7. #7
    Registered User vristang's Avatar
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    All of the following is just my unprofessional opinion...
    Originally Posted by totalwreck View Post
    So it's an aggressive 2 pronged approach. He's saying that if I DIDN'T do the exercises, the orthotics would solve the fundamental underlying issues of posture, but it would like 3/4 times as long.
    There is nothing 'aggressive' about limiting your activity to leg extensions & curls. This going to slow your progress trying to get healthy.
    Deadlift is phenomenal at developing hamstrings and glutes. Use an appropriate weight for your current level, and build from there.
    Even RDL's will be better than ext/curls on a machine, if DL is problematic for your current condition.

    Post a video of your lifts here... many knowledgeable folks here can help you dial in your form...

    If you want to merge what this therapist gave you with your program, then maybe try something like high rep work for a couple weeks, 8-15 reps...
    But, there is profound value in 5x5... it is worth jumping into...

    I think you can get to a higher level faster than what this therapist has mapped out for you.
    Jason
    First USAPL meet Feb 17th, 2017. Results S/B/D - 350/303/419
    Building a garage gym...

    My advice is from personal experience only, use at your own risk, lol
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  8. #8
    Registered User totalwreck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by vristang View Post
    All of the following is just my unprofessional opinion...
    There is nothing 'aggressive' about limiting your activity to leg extensions & curls. This going to slow your progress trying to get healthy.
    Deadlift is phenomenal at developing hamstrings and glutes. Use an appropriate weight for your current level, and build from there.
    Even RDL's will be better than ext/curls on a machine, if DL is problematic for your current condition.

    Post a video of your lifts here... many knowledgeable folks here can help you dial in your form...

    If you want to merge what this therapist gave you with your program, then maybe try something like high rep work for a couple weeks, 8-15 reps...
    But, there is profound value in 5x5... it is worth jumping into...

    I think you can get to a higher level faster than what this therapist has mapped out for you.
    I kinda regret posting this now because I can sense I'll have to do a lot of repeating. With respect, as above I've stated because of the muscle imbalances that I have, my body cannot effectively engage and recruit the muscles it needs to perform the exercises safely and effectively. if I did a deadlift now my lower back would be doing the job of inhibited glutes and hamstrings. I don't understand how many times I can explain the situation. You can't just say to somebody with complex imbalances and pathways "go deadlift" I'll end up with a pulled lower back in 6 weeks or sooner. What he's SAYING is, I need to BUILD and BALANCE some basic strength in the legs. Obviously this is not ALL i'm doing It's a balanced push/pull routine.
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  9. #9
    I'm the beast Iceman1800's Avatar
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    Take this for what's it's worth. I've won a silver medal at the world powerlifting championships and finished in the top 10 at strongman nationals. I know a little about getting strong. Your guy is clueless. He may understand muscle activation but a 2 year plan is total bs. I'd highly recommend looking into training Westside. The main focus of that training style is to address weak points while also doing the main lifts. So while you'd still deadlift, you'd also do exercises that hit the has, glutes, lower back and stuff like that. Hitting your weaknesses is what you need. You also need to have someone do a form check on your lifts.
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  10. #10
    I'm the beast Iceman1800's Avatar
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    An example with me. When I deadlift, I found that I was weak above the knees. That tells me my glutes were weak. That leads to muscle pain due to the push/pull of stronger/weaker points like your guy is talking about. So I added in romanian deadlifts which strengthened my glutes which in effect helped my deadlift. It also eliminated the muscle imbalance which caused pain. So you can fix what your guy is telling you with simply addressing the weak points. Zero need to take it as slow as he's telling you.
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