HOLY CHIT that UPS truck chase

[lildave]

Pedestrians ride in engine blocks now?

What kind of retarded logic is this? The suspects ENGAGED THE OFFICERS. They could have given up instead they chose to shoot it out.

As soon as the UPS truck got into the crowded area they should have backed right off. What is the rush? Let buddy drive around till the police have the advantage. They seemed to wait till the worst time to actually engage. Where was the swat team during this whole thing? Get them in the area and try to get the UPS truck to an area where they have a tactical advantage. The problem is they were just reacting to what was going on immediately. Using fast thinking in a situation they should have been using slow thinking.

[dhawkeye1980]

hawkeye is that ******* at the gym that mean mugs everything

Sorry no, random strangers opinion hold zero value to me so why would i bother caring enough to mean mug anyone.

[dhawkeye1980]

As soon as the UPS truck got into the crowded area they should have backed right off. What is the rush? Let buddy drive around till the police have the advantage. They seemed to wait till the worst time to actually engage. Where was the swat team during this whole thing? Get them in the area and try to get the UPS truck to an area where they have a tactical advantage. The problem is they were just reacting to what was going on immediately. Using fast thinking in a situation they should have been using slow thinking.

Cops back off and the guys shoot up a bunch of people and youd scream where were the cops. Fact is in a situation like this nothing is good enough for people like you because you want the cops to be wrong. Sad way to think really and a big part of why no one wants to be a cop anymore

FYI no they shouldnt have backed off

[Bcl2]

Sorry no, random strangers opinion hold zero value to me so why would i bother caring enough to mean mug anyone.

Right, which is why you're continuing to talk down to posters asking you for legitimate clarification and arguing back and forth while looking like an emotional, condescending basketcase. Never change

[lildave]

APCs are not just roaming the street to be used. Its a swat call out that takes minimum 2-4 hours to mobilize. Not all departments have APCs either. Swat also generally doesnt get involved in pursuits

Let them drive around for 2 hours then. Even if swat doesnt get involved in pursuits they can tell the police where they want them to push the suspects towards. The police obviously werent setup for a situation like this.

[JUGGERNAUT1333]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen confirmation yet as to who's bullets killed the bystander and driver.....

[dhawkeye1980]

Right, which is why you're continuing to talk down to posters asking you for legitimate clarification and arguing back and forth while looking like an emotional, condescending basketcase. Never change

Weird that none of that has happened. Ive explain the reality of the situation numerous times and all i get is "the cops should have backed off" from people who know nothing of police work or protocol. If you cant handle truth without whining and not listening that is your fault not mine

[allianc3]

APCs are not just roaming the street to be used. Its a swat call out that takes minimum 2-4 hours to mobilize. Not all departments have APCs either. Swat also generally doesnt get involved in pursuits

Re read my post you quoted. I get it, totally unconventional, definitely not ready to mobilize as quickly as other units, but someone with a better presence of mind in the situation could have saved a life or 2 here with a better approach. Frankly, after watching the video the response could have resulted in a much larger loss of innocent life and they're lucky AF the death toll was only 2.

I don't want to armchair quarterback the entire situation because that's impossible but I also think you're wrong for saying there's no possible way you could have brought an APC into the equation to better engage the suspects at some point along the pursuit. You're saying it's unconventional but that's really just a poor scapegoat for not effectively problem solving in the thick of things to minimize loss of life or potential loss of life.

[dhawkeye1980]

Let them drive around for 2 hours then. Even if swat doesnt get involved in pursuits they can tell the police where they want them to push the suspects towards. The police obviously werent setup for a situation like this.

What part of APCs and swat dont get involved in oursuits dont you grasp? You guys keep saying the same thing over and over because you dont understand why that wouldnt happen. You watch too much TV

[Sezzors]

Is this the police or the mafia lol?

[dhawkeye1980]

Re read my post you quoted. I get it, totally unconventional, definitely not ready to mobilize as quickly as other units, but someone with a better presence of mind in the situation could have saved a life or 2 here with a better approach. Frankly, after watching the video the response could have resulted in a much larger loss of innocent life and they're lucky AF the death toll was only 2.

I don't want to armchair quarterback the entire situation because that's impossible but I also think you're wrong for saying there's no possible way you could have brought an APC into the equation to better engage the suspects at some point along the pursuit. You're saying it's unconventional but that's really just a poor scapegoat for not effectively problem solving in the thick of things to minimize loss of life or potential loss of life.

So what was this magical APC supposed to do in the middle of a traffic jam?

[dhawkeye1980]

Right, which is why you're continuing to talk down to posters asking you for legitimate clarification and arguing back and forth while looking like an emotional, condescending basketcase. Never change

Lmfao its amazing how angry and pathetic you anti cop are. Im glad you got it out in your neg. Lmao

[ScottTil]

Pedestrians ride in engine blocks now?

What kind of retarded logic is this? The suspects ENGAGED THE OFFICERS. They could have given up instead they chose to shoot it out.

brooo you cannot be serious with this chit.

brb "hi honey just calling you to let you know I'm stuck in traffic and in the middle of a firefight between cops and robbers and there are bullets flying everywhere. There is a cop right in front of my car shooting, if he was 3 feet closer to me I'd be concerned but hes behind the ENGINE BLOCK so I'm just chilling waiting for this to blow over, love ya "

[lildave]

Weird that none of that has happened. Ive explain the reality of the situation numerous times and all i get is "the cops should have backed off" from people who know nothing of police work or protocol. If you cant handle truth without whining and not listening that is your fault not mine

Somehow I doubt its protocol to engage in a shoot out with suspects in a crowded area. Especially when a hostage is involved.
If that is protocol hopefully they really look at what happened here and come up with a new protocol.

[TBO1313]

I just don't see any way to defend this. Cops shouldn't have opened fire there. It's not quite as bad as when they murdered that guy begging them not to shoot after playing a life or death game of Simon says in a hallway in Las Vegas but its still gonna come back on the department pretty hard.

In my job I have to defend some police officers in claims so I have a pretty good knowledge of what is and is not acceptable from a liability standpoint and the department is screwed on this one. They'll be paying out a lot of money to a lot of different people

[dhawkeye1980]

brooo you cannot be serious with this chit.

brb "hi honey just calling you to let you know I'm stuck in traffic and in the middle of a firefight between cops and robbers and there are bullets flying everywhere. There is a cop right in front of my car shooting, if he was 3 feet closer to me I'd be concerned but hes behind the ENGINE BLOCK so I'm just chilling waiting for this to blow over, love ya "

Nothing like taking it to an idiotic extreme. The statement was cops were using pedestrians as shields

This is incorrect and you are an idiot for believing it

[HMFIC_BROWSIN]

Use your own empty police car for cover perhaps? That's what happens in literally every other police shootout I've ever seen.

So where they supposed to drive their cop car over the traffic or how would that work?

Pretty sure running on foot behind a civillian car then engaging the suspect wouldn't ever be an option in any scenario literally ever.... There's no way this is standard procedure ffs. "Oh yeah if there's heavy traffic, just get out of the squad car and use the traffic for cover!"

[Bcl2]

Lmfao its amazing how angry and pathetic you anti cop are. Im glad you got it out in your neg. Lmao

Like I said, you're a liar and a moron. It's sad that you're a cop (I assume) and exhibiting both behaviors but typical. Your behavior throughout this thread is pathetic enough you had to be told by mods to stop gatekeeping lol. For the life of me I can't figure out how anyone with a brain could defend this.

[JUGGERNAUT1333]

Weird that none of that has happened. Ive explain the reality of the situation numerous times and all i get is "the cops should have backed off" from people who know nothing of police work or protocol. If you cant handle truth without whining and not listening that is your fault not mine

So actual question to you - Do you feel this situation was handled as best as possible given the circumstances?

[allianc3]

So what was this magical APC supposed to do in the middle of a traffic jam?

You're asking me to armchair quarterback the situation you can criticize me for armchair quarterbacking the situation.

You know exactly the utility an APC would provide if injected into this situation, firing from a position of cover that's not directing gunfire at or towards more civilians than necessary. Providing stopping power, if necessary vs. a truck.

[dhawkeye1980]

Somehow I doubt its protocol to engage in a shoot out with suspects in a crowded area. Especially when a hostage is involved.
If that is protocol hopefully they really look at what happened here and come up with a new protocol.

So an active shooter in a crowded school and cops shouldnt engage because other kida are around so they just let the shooter keep going?

Background is important when considering to use deadly firce however when the suspects SHOT AT THE COPS, they became an imminent threat and cops were forced to engage. The SUSPECTS caused the civillians deaths, not the officers regardless of whose bullets caused their deaths. You simply want the cops to be at fault so you dont care the suspects caused it to happen by not simply giving up

[lildave]

What part of APCs and swat dont get involved in oursuits dont you grasp? You guys keep saying the same thing over and over because you dont understand why that wouldnt happen. You watch too much TV

Swat gets involved in hostage situations though dont they? I've seen enough police chases and typically once the chase is to dangerous to continue they back off. They have helicopters. Let the helicopters follow them around till it makes sense to re-engage. Also gives them a chance to come up with a real plan.

[HMFIC_BROWSIN]

So actual question to you - Do you feel this situation was handled as best as possible given the circumstances?

In b4 "yes."

Lmao

[dhawkeye1980]

Like I said, you're a liar and a moron. It's sad that you're a cop (I assume) and exhibiting both behaviors but typical. Your behavior throughout this thread is pathetic enough you had to be told by mods to stop gatekeeping lol. For the life of me I can't figure out how anyone with a brain could defend this.

Weird the only lying and moronic posts have been by you anti cops

[dhawkeye1980]

So actual question to you - Do you feel this situation was handled as best as possible given the circumstances?

How would you have handled it differently?

[JUGGERNAUT1333]

How would you have handled it differently?

I'm asking you. I didn't say I would handle anything differently or criticize your stance. I'm asking if you personally feel this was handled as best as possible.

[allianc3]

So an active shooter in a crowded school and cops shouldnt engage because other kida are around so they just let the shooter keep going?

Background is important when considering to use deadly firce however when the suspects SHOT AT THE COPS, they became an imminent threat and cops were forced to engage. The SUSPECTS caused the civillians deaths, not the officers regardless of whose bullets caused their deaths. You simply want the cops to be at fault so you dont care the suspects caused it to happen by not simply giving up

That's a total false equivalency my man.

In an active shooter situation at a school the suspects are not looking to retreat, they're looking to take as many lives as they can in the shortest amount of time possible, you have to engage in that situation regardless of the background like you say. This vehicle pursuit was not about the suspects taking lives as quickly as they could, it was about their own escape/retreat. This didn't have to become an active shooter situation right then and there, the poorly planned engagement made it so.

[dhawkeye1980]

Swat gets involved in hostage situations though dont they? I've seen enough police chases and typically once the chase is to dangerous to continue they back off. They have helicopters. Let the helicopters follow them around till it makes sense to re-engage. Also gives them a chance to come up with a real plan.

Hostage situations yes, pursuits no

Helicopters will follow for things such as DUIs and stolen cars. Where there is an imminent threat to life, like armed suspects with a hostage they dont track. Policies may have changed ive been retired for awhile from law enforcement

[dhawkeye1980]

That's a total false equivalency my man.

In an active shooter situation at a school the suspects are not looking to retreat, they're looking to take as many lives as they can in the shortest amount of time possible, you have to engage in that situation regardless of the background like you say. This vehicle pursuit was not about the suspects taking lives as quickly as they could, it was about their own escape/retreat. This didn't have to become an active shooter situation right then and there, the poorly planned engagement made it so.

No the ups truck getting stuck in traffic and the suspects turning into active shooters is what caused it

[dhawkeye1980]

I'm asking you. I didn't say I would handle anything differently or criticize your stance. I'm asking if you personally feel this was handled as best as possible.

There is no "best way" in police work because it happens so quickly. This is real life or death chit and sometimes it goes wrong but that doesnt make it wrong either