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  1. #151
    Yeshua is Messiah CalmWind's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lolimgood View Post
    How many times are people gonna say this?
    As many times as it takes, for every person who says it's free.


    Originally Posted by lolimgood View Post
    It's free at the point of use. Anyone over the age of 6 knows it's paid with taxes
    Then it's not free at any point.

    Taxing our incomes at higher rates means theft.
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  2. #152
    Atheist Brah guitarwar241's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CalmWind View Post
    Then it's not free at any point.

    Taxing our incomes at higher rates means theft.
    Oh man, you're a complete muppet haha. You should maybe Google what "free at the point of use" is before you continue making a fool of yourself. You're so hung up on the word "free" that your brain can't think any further.
    Last edited by guitarwar241; 12-05-2019 at 06:11 PM.
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  3. #153
    Registered User Thankless's Avatar
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    Why are the socialists ITT arguing about outrageous medical bills as if anyone is claiming the opposite to be true? Yes, people go bankrupt due to unexpected medical emergencies. We should bankrupt the country instead right? This is a terrible solution. Once it passes, there's no going back. Even if it ends up being a colossal failure, Which it surely will. There are far better solutions to experiment with, why jump straight to the nuclear option you can't come back from?

    The socialists will of course never admit to failure. So if/when it fails the blame will of course not fall anywhere close to their lap. They'll argue for more control and money to throw into it and continue to blame the lack of it as the reason for said failure.
    Last edited by Thankless; 12-06-2019 at 02:17 AM.
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  4. #154
    Registered User isingmodel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Thankless View Post
    Why are the socialists ITT arguing about outrageous medical bills as if anyone is claiming the opposite to be true? Yes, people go bankrupt due to unexpected medical emergencies. We should bankrupt the country instead right? This is a terrible solution. Once it passes, there's no going back. Even if it ends up being a colossal failure, Which it surely will. There are far better solutions to experiment with, why jump straight to the nuclear option you can't come back from?

    The socialists will of course never admit to failure. So if/when it fails the blame will of course not fall anywhere close to their lap. They'll argue for more control and money to throw into it and continue to blame the lack of it as the reason for said failure.
    Wait what's going to bankrupt the country?

    Raise taxes so you can cover everyone who wants it with Medicare. Keep private insurance for those who want to stay on it.

    Will cost a fraction of Warren's Medicare-only plan, cover all Americans who need it, whilst also letting those who like their insurance stay on it.

    This has nothing to do with cost as it's trivially easy to raise taxes enough to fund something like that, which means no "bankruptcy". The real problem for people like you is just the very idea of the unwashed masses getting access to healthcare at the expense of the more fortunate.
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  5. #155
    Registered User Thankless's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    Wait what's going to bankrupt the country?

    Raise taxes so you can cover everyone who wants it with Medicare. Keep private insurance for those who want to stay on it.

    Will cost a fraction of Warren's Medicare-only plan, cover all Americans who need it, whilst also letting those who like their insurance stay on it.

    This has nothing to do with cost as it's trivially easy to raise taxes enough to fund something like that, which means no "bankruptcy". The real problem for people like you is the idea of the unwashed masses getting access to healthcare at the expense of the more fortunate.

    The unwashed masses already have access to healthcare, they don't pay for it out of pocket or through taxes.

    How would medicare for all reduce healthcare costs?
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  6. #156
    Registered User isingmodel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Thankless View Post
    The unwashed masses already have access to healthcare.
    Lots of people in the US do not have access to affordable healthcare. A portion of the uninsured, the underinsured, and even some well insured people who get hit with major unexpected illnesses.

    No one should have to either face bankruptcy or forgo treatment in a country as wealthy as the US. A public option that anyone can access at any time is essential - and those lucky enough to be on premium insurance plans that they want to keep can keep them.
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  7. #157
    Registered User isingmodel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Thankless View Post
    The unwashed masses already have access to healthcare, they don't pay for it out of pocket or through taxes.

    How would medicare for all reduce healthcare costs?
    Well Medicare does see lower rate of cost increase than the private sector does, for a start. The availability of a public option that anyone can switch to at any time will put pressure on private insurers to keep costs controlled, since their customers can happily leave at any time if things get too absurd. This is one thing which keeps private healthcare costs managed in countries like the UK which has a universal public system.

    America's main source of spiralling healthcare costs are the high administrative costs of the complicated private insurance system, and the high costs of drugs and medical equipment due to private hospitals being unable to negotiate well with pharma companies.

    Medicare will alleviate some of that, but most importantly it will provide access to healthcare that many people do not have (without facing bankruptcy or lifelong debt).
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  8. #158
    Registered User ImBunky's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ErnieMccracken View Post
    This guy worked harder and contributed more to humanity than everyone here combined... and still got rung up for every penny by the healthcare system.

    I'm guessing at 96 he was on Medicare, what the left wants for all.
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  9. #159
    Yeshua is Messiah CalmWind's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by guitarwar241 View Post
    Oh man, you're a complete muppet haha. You should maybe Google what "free at the point of use" is before you continue making a fool of yourself. You're so hung up on the word "free" that your brain can't think any further.

    Facepalming at the sad sad people who resort to insults.


    Repeating for the thousandth time.


    If my taxes need to go up to pay for something, then it's not free.
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  10. #160
    Registered User Ten_Hearts's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CalmWind View Post
    Facepalming at the sad sad people who resort to insults.


    Repeating for the thousandth time.


    If my taxes need to go up to pay for something, then it's not free.
    It wouldnt be free its just a means to assure that everyone has access to life saving medicines and treatments.
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  11. #161
    Registered User BrightThru2014's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by guitarwar241 View Post
    Dude, seriously. You're so out of touch with what happens in this country with healthcare that it's sickening. Any sort of non-emergency medical treatment (cancer treatments for instance) obviously wouldn't fall under emergency care so your 1st point is null right from the start. I also can't believe that you didn't know that insurance companies deny people necessary treatments left and right here. Then they make you jump through hoops to try and get them to potentially cover it so you don't go broke.

    I actually lol'd at your taking a loan/filing for bankruptcy advice if you need some medical treatment. How does that not sound insane to you? You act like the United States is the only country that can treat cancer and every other country has no chance. Get phucking real, man.
    If a procedure is within the standard of care to treat your illness, insurance companies must cover it.

    You know what sounds insane to me? Someone who would rather live in a country where THERE IS NO TREATMENT IN THE FIRST PLACE OR WHERE THE GOVERNMENT DENIES THEM TREATMENT BECAUSE ITS TOO EXPENSIVE, versus a country where there are multiple safety nets to ensure treatment, your private insurance carrier is legally required to cover the treatment if it falls under the standard of care, and at the VERY WORST, you have the opportunity to pay for a novel treatment to save your life.

    In what world do you think that the government will be more willing to pay for treatments (keeping in mind they have a monopoly on the market) over private insurance companies competing for your business and sensitive therefore to public opinion relating to their consistent denial of service. This is an utterly illogical position.

    Originally Posted by ErnieMccracken View Post
    Bro you are so full of chit and have no zero clue what you're talking about. Less than zero because you think you know. I'm not even going to argue with you because I'm sure it's pointless. You'll do whatever mental gymnastics it takes to avoid the truth.

    Someday you're going to get denied for something critical and they will laugh when you tell them, " b b b but you can't do that!"
    Okay. I used facts, logic, and backed up all my arguments with sources. At this point all you have left is to resort to ad hominem attacks. You're also likely lying about your sister to make a political, which is sick.

    I think maybe all of this is a sign you need to reconsider your political positions, or at least the arguments you use to support your position.
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  12. #162
    MAGA VegasLifter26's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ten_Hearts View Post
    It wouldnt be free its just a means to assure that everyone has access to life saving medicines and treatments.
    sounds good on paper but in reality most poor people choose to live unhealthy lives. Dont believe it ?..work at walmart for a month and see what the people on food stamps buy on a weekly basis...you wont see very many fruits or vegetables. And the truth is rice, potatoes, eggs, beans, frozen veggies arent very expensive...and not smoking is cheaper than smoking. Poor people choose to endanger themselves so why should I be FORCED to pay for them? (which i already am btw with medicaid)
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  13. #163
    Registered User BrightThru2014's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ErnieMccracken View Post
    This guy worked harder and contributed more to humanity than everyone here combined... and still got rung up for every penny by the healthcare system.

    ...so what you're saying is that an individual covered by the government-run healthcare that the Left would like to mandatorily expand to all citizens, Medicare/Medicaid, failed to provide this man with adequate care?

    Are you a conservative or just really confused?
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  14. #164
    Registered User IPoopStandingUp's Avatar
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    If enough doctors agree to work for free and shareholders of the drug companies agree to give away medicine itd be a start.

    Any interest in being a free doctor or starting a free drug company op?
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  15. #165
    Registered User BrightThru2014's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    Wait what's going to bankrupt the country?

    Raise taxes so you can cover everyone who wants it with Medicare. Keep private insurance for those who want to stay on it.

    Will cost a fraction of Warren's Medicare-only plan, cover all Americans who need it, whilst also letting those who like their insurance stay on it.

    This has nothing to do with cost as it's trivially easy to raise taxes enough to fund something like that, which means no "bankruptcy". The real problem for people like you is just the very idea of the unwashed masses getting access to healthcare at the expense of the more fortunate.
    How will this work? What do you mean "cover everyone who wants it with Medicare"? Do you mean buy into a government-provided insurance plan? Do you mean automatically enroll everyone into a Medicare plan? I'm just trying to understand what you're even advocating for.

    How much will this cost? How much does it represent in added taxes? What are the projected effects on the healthcare system if doctors are being reimbursed at Medicare's set rates?
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    Registered User Ten_Hearts's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by VegasLifter26 View Post
    sounds good on paper but in reality most poor people choose to live unhealthy lives. Dont believe it ?..work at walmart for a month and see what the people on food stamps buy on a weekly basis...you wont see very many fruits or vegetables. And the truth is rice, potatoes, eggs, beans, frozen veggies arent very expensive...and not smoking is cheaper than smoking. Poor people choose to endanger themselves so why should I be FORCED to pay for them? (which i already am btw with medicaid)
    Then let's promote more healthy lifestyles and increasing access to preventative care. Diet is only one reason someone who is poor may have lower health outcomes. When one is in that situation diet probably ranks pretty low on daily stresses and priorities.
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    Registered User Ten_Hearts's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IPoopStandingUp View Post
    If enough doctors agree to work for free and shareholders of the drug companies agree to give away medicine itd be a start.

    Any interest in being a free doctor or starting a free drug company op?
    I mean there is a large gap between giving a drug for free and charging tens of thousands for a dose...
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    Originally Posted by Ten_Hearts View Post
    I mean there is a large gap between giving a drug for free and charging tens of thousands for a dose...
    Agreed but the thread title says free
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  19. #169
    CEO of the Unified Fund ErnieMccracken's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BrightThru2014 View Post
    Okay. I used facts, logic, and backed up all my arguments with sources. At this point all you have left is to resort to ad hominem attacks. You're also likely lying about your sister to make a political, which is sick.

    I think maybe all of this is a sign you need to reconsider your political positions, or at least the arguments you use to support your position.
    Your "facts and logic" are all nonsense and the fact that you find my situation hard to believe is all you need to know about your education on the topic.
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  20. #170
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    Originally Posted by ErnieMccracken View Post
    Your "facts and logic" are all nonsense and the fact that you find my situation hard to believe is all you need to know about your education on the topic.
    Every statement I made was supported by a source. What you are describing occurred with your sister is plainly illegal in the United States.

    I'm not sure what else there is to say, except that I hope you open your mind on this topic. Remember, we both want the same thing, the best quality care available at the lowest cost to the most amount of people, the difference is I've grounded my views in facts and objective reality. Your world view, if propagated, will HURT people.
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    Yeshua is Messiah CalmWind's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ten_Hearts View Post
    It wouldnt be free its just a means to assure that everyone has access to life saving medicines and treatments.
    Taxing my labor to promote forced charity, with threat of jailtime if refused, is immoral and wrong.
    "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for thou art with me." - Psalm 23

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  22. #172
    Yeshua is Messiah CalmWind's Avatar
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    When will liberals finally learn and stop advocating for bigger government to solve everything?

    Liberals complain about college tuition prices? BRB GOVERNMENT SHOULD STEP IN MAKE IT FREE!

    etc etc



    There are causes and effects as to why things cost what they do, and there are solutions that don't involve bigger and bigger govt and higher taxes.

    Geez. It's like you turn to Mommy and Daddy Government to fix all your problems. No education or creative thinking
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  23. #173
    CEO of the Unified Fund ErnieMccracken's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CalmWind View Post
    When will liberals finally learn and stop advocating for bigger government to solve everything?

    Liberals complain about college tuition prices? BRB GOVERNMENT SHOULD STEP IN MAKE IT FREE!

    etc etc



    There are causes and effects as to why things cost what they do, and there are solutions that don't involve bigger and bigger govt and higher taxes.

    Geez. It's like you turn to Mommy and Daddy Government to fix all your problems. No education or creative thinking

    Then what's the answer? What we have now is a total disaster. I have yet to hear anything except "lEt PoOr aNd MiDlLe ClAsS PeOpLe DiE iF tHeY gEt SiCk!1!"

    I have degrees in finance, accounting, and economics. Whatever complex solution you have in mind, I assure you I can understand it. I always prefer a private solution except in areas prone to huge market failures.
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    The question is why do people have to wait up to 6 moths for an operation in the UK?
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    It is free for military vets, native americans (depending on the tribe), the elderly....its chit quality though (by american standards, probably just fine for europeans)
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  26. #176
    Banned wincel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ErnieMccracken View Post
    This guy worked harder and contributed more to humanity than everyone here combined... and still got rung up for every penny by the healthcare system.

    wow that is fuking sad
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    Originally Posted by ErnieMccracken View Post
    Then what's the answer? What we have now is a total disaster. I have yet to hear anything except "lEt PoOr aNd MiDlLe ClAsS PeOpLe DiE iF tHeY gEt SiCk!1!"

    I have degrees in finance, accounting, and economics. Whatever complex solution you have in mind, I assure you I can understand it. I always prefer a private solution except in areas prone to huge market failures.
    We have the the most cutting edge and effective healthcare treatment in the world, as I have demonstrated exhaustively through empirical sources. Poor and middle class people do not die if they get sick, they are almost entirely covered by insurance or the government through Medicare. The only people in America who don't have insurance are those who have made a conscious choice not to purchase it. Literally nobody is saying this, and our healthcare system does not allow for this.

    What's wrong with you?
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  28. #178
    Registered User BrightThru2014's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by wincel View Post
    wow that is fuking sad
    Keep in mind, he has access to "free" healthcare through Medicaid. To the extent that he was actually selling any assets to pay for healthcare costs, he's paying for additional services. This would be the same case in any European socialized healthcare system.
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  29. #179
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    Originally Posted by BrightThru2014 View Post
    Keep in mind, he has access to "free" healthcare through Medicaid. To the extent that he was actually selling any assets to pay for healthcare costs, he's paying for additional services. This would be the same case in any European socialized healthcare system.
    lol take off your partisan hat and just admit that is fuking sad af

    whether you are pro uhc or not, that is sad
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    русский агент Stizzel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by wincel View Post
    wow that is fuking sad
    Yeah, that's rough man. Now lets focus on whats really important: free health care for illegals
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