Why isn't healthcare free in the U.S.?

[Ikeman83]

Reading up on this topic and am using Canada and UK as examples. I know it isn't technically free, as the costs does come from somewhere via taxes. I don't know the living costs there, but it can't be that bad compared to U.S. living costs.

Some people pay as much as $600/month for healthcare and never get sick.

The Cost of living in those countries is much higher than the US.

Also, something you pay for with an exorbitant tax rate isn't free.

[Ikeman83]

So for those against single payer or socialized healthcare, what's your solution?

500k people will go bankrupt due to medical bills this year in the US, my sister with stage 4 cancer being one of them. Like most people filing, she worked her entire adult life and has health insurance. She has a degree and a corporate job, saved her money, bought her own house in Scottsdale, did everything right. Boom. All gone in 1 day - every cent to her name (and other family members) transferred to a few rich corporations.

Insurance said they would only cover some cheap, generic form of chemo (the cheapest they can legally get away with) instead of the one both her oncologists said she needs. Each round is $600k, to be paid up front in cash or she essentially dies.

Deport the illegals so that we aren't paying for their health care. Watch costs drop.

[ErnieMccracken]

The Cost of living in those countries is much higher than the US.

Also, something you pay for with an exorbitant tax rate isn't free.

We pay significantly more for healthcare than any other country and have the worst overall outcomes of any developed nation. We're getting boned. We pay Cadillac prices for Hyundai level products.

[ErnieMccracken]

Deport the illegals so that we aren't paying for their health care. Watch costs drop.

That's not how it works. I have a background in corporate finance, years of which I spent in healthcare (including pricing models for devices which were 8x higher for US clients). If I told my boss we should lower prices because costs decreased and it's only right that we pass the savings on to patients, he'd insta-fire me if he thought I was serious.

The goal of any business is to milk the customer for maximum profit, regardless of cost structure. This is why healthcare is such a huge market failure and every other country socializes it. New entry is nearly impossible.

[isingmodel]

The Cost of living in those countries is much higher than the US.

Also, something you pay for with an exorbitant tax rate isn't free.

The US pays more in taxes for its public non-universal healthcare than other countries do for their universal coverage LOL

[gixxer0.6g]

Nothing is free you imbeciles. Why are libs so financially illiterate?

The govt has never in the history of the US done something cheaper and more efficient than the private sector. Health care will be no exception

[Jasonw1178]

Want to see what single payer healthcare looks like run by the US government? Go visit the VA. That's our veterans for God's sake, imagine how they would treat the rest of us? No thanks. Might be bankrupted but I'll be alive to rebuild.

The real reason they want single payer government healthcare is not for the benefit of most people, but for the benefit of the "less fortunate" which includes the 700K that are about to lose their SNAP beneifts as well.

[StoliFun]

Hey OP,

For one thing, many Americans don't believe that healthcare is a right of citizenship. If you followed the debates leading up to the passing of Obamacare, many opponents of proper universal coverage claimed that the uninsured would receive treatment anyway, be it at an emergency room or after their communities, families, churches, GoFundMes, bake sales, etc scrape up enough cash to pay for whatever treatment they need. Recently, some conservatives on this board have admitted they just don't think some people deserve healthcare, however.

For another, those who do have affordable health insurance are terrified that their access to care will suffer if everyone gets insurance. They fear, especially, for their childrens' and spouses' access to care. They feel this emotion viscerally. It is difficult to assuage them with reason.

Practically speaking, since everyone needs health care at some point, it is often a great business to be in. All those corporations and hospitals and insurance companies etc making money off of our need for healthcare aren't easily going to cede control over any part of their fiefdoms.

Lastly, boomers are selfish pricks who let this get way, way out of hand while looking forward to retiring and enjoying their Medicare.

[crupiea]

When you are doing your tax return next year they have that line on there that tells you how much of a refund you are getting.

Simply remove that line and we could have free health care.

Now look at your pay check. You see that huge amount of all sorts of taxes they take out? Double that amount.

So if you made $1000 this week, yeah, whatever, its an example. You would normally take home about $800.

With the new plan you will now take home $600.

So thats $800 less per month in your bank account so you can have free medical.

So basically, it wont be free, you will be paying for it want it or not. Plus, You will have to trust politicians who answer only to each other to wisely use the money. Ask yourself, do you honesty trust them?

Now ets move on to free college.

See that now enormous amount of taxes taken out of your check? You can see where this is going.

[Oddball8945]

health care is free in the USA for illegals, mental cases(democrats), poor people and anyone else who just says FU and doesn't pay the bill

[isingmodel]

Want to see what single payer healthcare looks like run by the US government? Go visit the VA. That's our veterans for God's sake, imagine how they would treat the rest of us? No thanks. Might be bankrupted but I'll be alive to rebuild.

The real reason they want single payer government healthcare is not for the benefit of most people, but for the benefit of the "less fortunate" which includes the 700K that are about to lose their SNAP beneifts as well.

Or you could just look at Medicare? Medicare isn't a federally ran healthcare system (like the UK's NHS), the federal government just funds coverage. It has like 90% satisfaction rate among the elderly who use it. Prices are also kept better controlled than the private insurance sector.

And you don't even need to rid private health insurance. You just expand access to Medicare so that anyone who needs it or would prefer it to private insurance can use it. The rest can stay on their private insurance.

This is the kinda thing that Buttigieg and Yang are proposing.

[~Hades~]

Survival of the fittest

In America if you get sick you fight it and possibly die or you go to the hospital and forever stay in debt

The whole goal is to prevent sickness and the recent studies show that semen deters 99.9% of germs and viruses. Lol @ people that dont drink and lather semen to remain top dog

I’m invincible

[jasonbaybay]

Facts:
1. Every single able-bodied person in america could afford health insurance if they had a semi-reasonable plan
2. Having "universal healthcare" won't increase the supply of doctors, but will increase the demand. Thus, shortage and dealth panels
3. Having "universal healthcare" will decrease the demand for the smartest and best. Liberal doctors will virtue signal, but no one wants to be the slave of people who think they have a right to your services.
4. Even commie liberals have stopped talking about Cuban healthcare success.(doctors are literally slaves)

Every single doctor that works in my business has said that they would treat more people for free if they would do away with medicare and medicaid. All that stuff does is waste the time of doctors and increase the costs, due to paperwork, etc

[jasonbaybay]

That's not how it works. I have a background in corporate finance, years of which I spent in healthcare (including pricing models for devices which were 8x higher for US clients). If I told my boss we should lower prices because costs decreased and it's only right that we pass the savings on to patients, he'd insta-fire me if he thought I was serious.

The goal of any business is to milk the customer for maximum profit, regardless of cost structure. This is why healthcare is such a huge market failure and every other country socializes it. New entry is nearly impossible.

New entry is impossible
Lets have government have more control

Pick 2-1+1-1

[ErnieMccracken]

New entry is impossible
Lets have government have more control

Pick 2-1+1-1

So how do we get tons of new competition to push prices down for big pharma, insurance, providers, and the 10 other layers of leeches extorting sick people? If you hurt your dink by applying too much torque tonight and have to go to the ER, they don't even know how much it's going to cost. What other business has such a monopoly that they can get away with that?

You find out 6 weeks later and they charge whatever they please because there's no competition for 100% captive markets.

[snailsrus]

Reading up on this topic and am using Canada and UK as examples. I know it isn't technically free, as the costs does come from somewhere via taxes. I don't know the living costs there, but it can't be that bad compared to U.S. living costs.

Some people pay as much as $600/month for healthcare and never get sick.

I pay 370ish
My dad pays over 600 and that’s on top of social security he paid into for years
My step mom pays 760ish
All with high deductibles and copays for doctors appointments and er visits and no dental coverage

It’s free if you make less than 16,500 a year

[jasonbaybay]

So how do we get tons of new competition to push prices down for big pharma, insurance, providers, and the 10 other layers of leeches extorting sick people? If you hurt your dink by applying too much torque tonight and have to go to the ER, they don't even know how much it's going to cost. What other business has such a monopoly that they can get away with that?

You find out 6 weeks later and they charge whatever they please because there's no competition for 100% captive markets.

Companies only get monopolies because of governments-lobbying and special favors. Companies only charge Extremely high prices because they know a 3rd party/government will take care of it.

[guitarwar241]

So how do we get tons of new competition to push prices down for big pharma, insurance, providers, and the 10 other layers of leeches extorting sick people? If you hurt your dink by applying too much torque tonight and have to go to the ER, they don't even know how much it's going to cost. What other business has such a monopoly that they can get away with that?

You find out 6 weeks later and they charge whatever they please because there's no competition for 100% captive markets.

This man speaks the truth.

[guitarwar241]

Also, something you pay for with an exorbitant tax rate isn't free.

Nothing is free you imbeciles. Why are libs so financially illiterate?

The govt has never in the history of the US done something cheaper and more efficient than the private sector. Health care will be no exception

Are you guys kidding me? It's free at the point of use. Anyone with the correct amount of chromosomes can comprehend that taxes pay for social programs.

[ErnieMccracken]

Companies only get monopolies because of governments-lobbying and special favors. Companies only charge Extremely high prices because they know a 3rd party/government will take care of it.

So, again, how do you gets tons of new $300M hospitals to pop up in every town and start competing with each other on price? srs question - I have zero political ties.

Downward pricing pressure only happens when there is easy entry and a producer surplus. Take supps for example. Anyone with $10k can start a national whey brand and more than enough product exists to meet demand, so there will always be downward pricing pressure.

[jasonbaybay]

Are you guys kidding me? It's free at the point of use. Anyone with the correct amount of chromosomes can comprehend that taxes pay for social programs.

No it isn't. Nothing is free. There is an opportunity cost for everything. And when demand>Supply, guess what happens?

[Thankless]

That's not how it works. I have a background in corporate finance, years of which I spent in healthcare (including pricing models for devices which were 8x higher for US clients). If I told my boss we should lower prices because costs decreased and it's only right that we pass the savings on to patients, he'd insta-fire me if he thought I was serious.

The goal of any business is to milk the customer for maximum profit, regardless of cost structure. This is why healthcare is such a huge market failure and every other country socializes it. New entry is nearly impossible.

MAXIMUM PR0F!T@!! What do you do when a competitor comes along and takes all the customers your gouging? Ask yourself why this doesn't happen. Get the government out of healthcare and your price gouging company would be out of business or be forced to actually compete.

[Thankless]

So how do we get tons of new competition to push prices down for big pharma, insurance, providers, and the 10 other layers of leeches extorting sick people? If you hurt your dink by applying too much torque tonight and have to go to the ER, they don't even know how much it's going to cost. What other business has such a monopoly that they can get away with that?

You find out 6 weeks later and they charge whatever they please because there's no competition for 100% captive markets.

Maybe instead of encouraging the monopolization of the entire medical field with laws and dictation (single payer), you should be lobbying for shorter patent periods (cutting regulation) instead of pretending that tougher regulations isn't why we are in the crisis we have today.

[isingmodel]

Are you guys kidding me? It's free at the point of use. Anyone with the correct amount of chromosomes can comprehend that taxes pay for social programs.

Conservatives in every other country recognise this and never use it as some kinda "gotcha" talking point. Only US Republicans are so low IQ that pointing out that healthcare is paid by taxes makes them feel super smart LMFAO

[Thankless]

Conservatives in every other country recognise this and never use it as some kinda "gotcha" talking point. Only US Republicans are so low IQ that pointing out that healthcare is paid by taxes makes them feel super smart LMFAO

It's dishonest. Do you describe using a credit card/company card as getting something for "free"?

[isingmodel]

It's dishonest. Do you describe using a credit card as getting something for "free"?

Free has always been described as "free at the point of use". Ie. regardless of how complex or extensive treatment is, you do not pay anything out of pocket for your care.

Literally everyone above the mental age of 6 understands that it's paid for by taxes, which is no one feels the need to specify that every time it is discussed.

[SillieBazzillie]

Some people's healthcare plans suck, man.


My high cost plan is $139/mo. The cheap one is $101/mo.


$750 deductible, $3K OOP max, $25 copay.

That's pretty great btw. Cheaper than I paid for family coverage in 2010.

[SillieBazzillie]

I pay 370ish
My dad pays over 600 and that’s on top of social security he paid into for years
My step mom pays 760ish
All with high deductibles and copays for doctors appointments and er visits and no dental coverage

It’s free if you make less than 16,500 a year

Health coverage secondary to Medicare has always cost an arm and a leg. Because old people get sick a lot.

Paying $500 - $700 per month is what that market has always been.

[Ten_Hearts]

Maybe instead of encouraging the monopolization of the entire medical field with laws and dictation (single payer), you should be lobbying for shorter patent periods (cutting regulation) instead of pretending that tougher regulations isn't why we are in the crisis we have today.

Shorter patents would probably be something the current market is very much against. And molecule patents are only part it. Example humira is off patent as a couple years ago but the biosimilar versions are being held up because of legal issue with patents relating to manufacturing and such. Also probably need to provide the FDA with more funding to review new drug and generic BLAs and NDAs.

[BrightThru2014]

When you get diagnosed with cancer in this country, not only do you have to worry about fighting the actual disease, you have to worry about draining your life savings as well. That's an extra level of stress that cancer patients certainly don't need.

Okay. I'll take extra stress and a higher chance of survival statistically, thanks.

..Are you really arguing that you would rather be in a country where you are more likely to die?

We pay significantly more for healthcare than any other country and have the worst overall outcomes of any developed nation. We're getting boned. We pay Cadillac prices for Hyundai level products.

Please see my earlier post. America has the best cancer treatment and survival rates in the world. This statement you have made is 100% false.

If you have private insurance in America you receive by far superior healthcare to anywhere else in the world.

Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2...-of-the-world/

"So with all of that said, yes, America has among the best cancer survival statistics because of an incredible abundance of high technology equipment and drugs, more extensive screening, and more aggressive treatment."

"Very expensive cancer treatments such as the new immunotherapies for cancer are more widely available in America than in countries with national healthcare where there are restrictions based on cost/benefit and budget caps."