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    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
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    Post Anthony Joshua vs Andy Ruiz II

    This Saturday Anthony Joshua is looking to regain his heavyweight title and avenge his shocking loss to Andy Ruiz.

    There are many factors. I remember the first fight - Joshua was heavy and very muscular in addition I don't believe he took Ruiz seriously. Ruiz fought the first fight at a plump 270lbs, but fought like a champ and KO'd Joshua in the 7th round. Ruiz has a 33-1 record. He is no joke and can box. Even though he gives up about 10 inches in reach, he has a powerful close game with fierce hooks.

    Some pundits are saying that Ruiz has Joshua's number and that it will end up the same.

    What is also interesting is that Joshua has trimmed down and completely altered his training from weights to swimming and cardio. Ruiz has also trimmed way down and is looking sharp.

    If Joshua loses this one, he will lose a lot of stock. Ruiz is riding high on his win and Joshua's ego was tagged hard.

    We will see.

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    Registered User ajdahlheimer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post

    What is also interesting is that Joshua has trimmed down and completely altered his training from weights to swimming and cardio. Ruiz has also trimmed way down and is looking sharp.
    It will be interesting to see if Ruiz can still take body shots the way he used to--if he is that trimmed down. (However, we know he isn't gonna be a glass-jaw at any weight). Also, gotta wonder what kind of power Joshua may lose on his punches, despite obviously being quicker and able to move around better.

    Will be watching..........
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    Originally Posted by ajdahlheimer View Post
    It will be interesting to see if Ruiz can still take body shots the way he used to--if he is that trimmed down. (However, we know he isn't gonna be a glass-jaw at any weight). Also, gotta wonder what kind of power Joshua may lose on his punches, despite obviously being quicker and able to move around better.

    Will be watching..........
    Good points. Thanks.
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    Humble Megalomaniac ElrondHubbard's Avatar
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    Joshua will definitely need to move better this time. He tried to go toe to toe with Ruiz, and that was a mistake. Joseph Parker beat Ruiz with mobility, and it was close. Joshua will have to be able to punch on the move.
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    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ElrondHubbard View Post
    Joshua will definitely need to move better this time. He tried to go toe to toe with Ruiz, and that was a mistake. Joseph Parker beat Ruiz with mobility, and it was close. Joshua will have to be able to punch on the move.
    I agree. Ruiz is dangerous on the inside.
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    I agree. Ruiz is dangerous on the inside.
    I hate to sound like an old "Good old days" geezer, but Muhammad Ali in his prime would have made mincemeat out of either one of them, at least that particular night. He had the perfect style for a fighter like Ruiz -- slashing fast jab, get in and get out, slip the punches and never get caught by surprise. He could always see the punches coming.

    Joshua looked like he wasn't even paying attention to Ruiz's offense.
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    Originally Posted by ElrondHubbard View Post
    I hate to sound like an old "Good old days" geezer, but Muhammad Ali in his prime would have made mincemeat out of either one of them, at least that particular night. He had the perfect style for a fighter like Ruiz -- slashing fast jab, get in and get out, slip the punches and never get caught by surprise. He could always see the punches coming.

    Joshua looked like he wasn't even paying attention to Ruiz's offense.
    I do not disagree. Anyone who knows a little about boxing from the 60s and early 70s can appreciate the incredible skills Ali had. Ali would play with Joshua and just wear him out. Agreed, Ali had the best jab ever.

    IMO, if Joshua gets past Ruiz, he won't have his belt long. He will have to face fighters that have better skills. Wilder isn't much of a boxer and loses fights until he lands that killer straight right and it's all over. He would kill Joshua.

    My favorite boxer ever was Evander Holyfield. When he warmed up, he would go to war with great skill. I miss those days.
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    I do not disagree. Anyone who knows a little about boxing from the 60s and early 70s can appreciate the incredible skills Ali had. Ali would play with Joshua and just wear him out. Agreed, Ali had the best jab ever.

    IMO, if Joshua gets past Ruiz, he won't have his belt long. He will have to face fighters that have better skills. Wilder isn't much of a boxer and loses fights until he lands that killer straight right and it's all over. He would kill Joshua.

    My favorite boxer ever was Evander Holyfield. When he warmed up, he would go to war with great skill. I miss those days.
    Holyfield absolutely fought above his weight. Not to mention he was the first professional boxer I know of to use bodybuilding and powerlifting techniques to maximize his mass and power for full heavyweight competition.

    I'd like to see Joshua vs Wilder. Wilder does have the killer right, but as you said, aside from that, he doesn't have that many talents. Could Joshua be trained to avoid that one punch? I don't know. It got Tyson Fury, but I suspect Fury could beat Wilder in a rematch.

    The heavyweight division is in an interesting spot right now.
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    Originally Posted by ElrondHubbard View Post
    I hate to sound like an old "Good old days" geezer, but Muhammad Ali in his prime would have made mincemeat out of either one of them, at least that particular night. He had the perfect style for a fighter like Ruiz -- slashing fast jab, get in and get out, slip the punches and never get caught by surprise. He could always see the punches coming.

    Joshua looked like he wasn't even paying attention to Ruiz's offense.
    I agree that Ali would've beaten the snot out of both fighters. He was absolutely my favorite boxer of all time. I do disagree, however, that he never got caught by surprise. I remember back in 1971 when Frazier dropped him in their first fight (Ali's first loss). I was shocked. Of course, that happened in the 15th round and could've been fatigue more than anything. Any boxer, even the greatest ever, is not susceptible to being caught by surprise.
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    Originally Posted by Desparado View Post
    I agree that Ali would've beaten the snot out of both fighters. He was absolutely my favorite boxer of all time. I do disagree, however, that he never got caught by surprise. I remember back in 1971 when Frazier dropped him in their first fight (Ali's first loss). I was shocked. Of course, that happened in the 15th round and could've been fatigue more than anything. Any boxer, even the greatest ever, is not susceptible to being caught by surprise.
    Elrond referenced Ali "in his prime" though. By 1971, Ali had been out of boxing for sometime due to refusing military service. He was still the best in the world, but his fighting style wasn't the same. He was heavier than his first title run and had started to lean on tactics such as the rope-a-dope rather just insane speed (where he'd actually fight with his hands down before). That style during his first run was where you were never gonna catch him by surprise IMO.
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    Originally Posted by ajdahlheimer View Post
    Elrond referenced Ali "in his prime" though. By 1971, Ali had been out of boxing for sometime due to refusing military service. He was still the best in the world, but his fighting style wasn't the same. He was heavier than his first title run and had started to lean on tactics such as the rope-a-dope rather just insane speed (where he'd actually fight with his hands down before). That style during his first run was where you were never gonna catch him by surprise IMO.
    I understand. Ali was also knocked down by Henry Cooper when he was still Cassius Clay. His 19th fight I believe. He would have been in his prime. Not being argumentative, just reiterating that the greatest ever was not immune to a surprise punch.

    Not to derail the original post, I think the fat man beats Joshua again.
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    Originally Posted by Desparado View Post
    I understand. Ali was also knocked down by Henry Cooper when he was still Cassius Clay. His 19th fight I believe. He would have been in his prime. Not being argumentative, just reiterating that the greatest ever was not immune to a surprise punch.
    Right, I guess I was referring more to an actual KO punch though (see Wilder-Ruiz)......
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    Originally Posted by ElrondHubbard View Post
    Holyfield absolutely fought above his weight. Not to mention he was the first professional boxer I know of to use bodybuilding and powerlifting techniques to maximize his mass and power for full heavyweight competition.

    I'd like to see Joshua vs Wilder. Wilder does have the killer right, but as you said, aside from that, he doesn't have that many talents. Could Joshua be trained to avoid that one punch? I don't know. It got Tyson Fury, but I suspect Fury could beat Wilder in a rematch.

    The heavyweight division is in an interesting spot right now.
    Talking Holyfield fighting above his weight, it was amazing when he fought Lenox Lewis, who was and is a giant. 2 fights and even though the first fight was a controversial draw, and Holyfield lost the second, he fought his ass off and was only 215lbs against a 6'5" 245lbs Lewis.

    Tyson Fury is a much better boxer than some people give him credit for. He has serious skill and was beating Wilder until he got knocked down then called a draw. I agree that Fury will have learned from the first fight and take Wilder apart this next February.
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    Hopefully the fighters read this thread before the match so they will know what to do to win.
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    I feel like Ruiz is going to win again
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    Originally Posted by Desparado View Post
    I agree that Ali would've beaten the snot out of both fighters. He was absolutely my favorite boxer of all time. I do disagree, however, that he never got caught by surprise. I remember back in 1971 when Frazier dropped him in their first fight (Ali's first loss). I was shocked. Of course, that happened in the 15th round and could've been fatigue more than anything. Any boxer, even the greatest ever, is not susceptible to being caught by surprise.
    I should have said “rarely”. Yeah, it did happen a few times, and there was Ken Norton who always seemed to know just how to neutralize him. But on those few occasions he did get caught, he had a hell of a chin.
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    Roy Jones had a chance to interview Evander Holyfield about Joshua.

    Roy Jones: "Evander, what is your advice to Joshua as he faces Ruiz for the rematch?"

    Evander Holyfield: "If he do what he do, it gonna be a knock out. Now ----- if he don't do what he do ------ it gonna be a long night."
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    Talking Holyfield fighting above his weight, it was amazing when he fought Lenox Lewis, who was and is a giant. 2 fights and even though the first fight was a controversial draw, and Holyfield lost the second, he fought his ass off and was only 215lbs against a 6'5" 245lbs Lewis.

    Tyson Fury is a much better boxer than some people give him credit for. He has serious skill and was beating Wilder until he got knocked down then called a draw. I agree that Fury will have learned from the first fight and take Wilder apart this next February.
    In some strange ways, I see some similarities between Fury and Ali. Fury's not as fast, but he's very quick for his size. He has a good jab, great vision, and fine instincts. Also great reaction time. Most of all, he's a master bullshi**er and trash talker.

    When he beat Klitschko, I was not impressed. I thought it was a great defensive fight, and certainly caused Klitschko a lot of frustration, but he didn't do much offensively. I didn't think he deserved the win. More recently, I've developed respect for the man. He seems to have put his personal demons behind him, and he's matured as a fighter, and showed great heart.

    He's got his weaknesses, but he's going to be a difficult challenge for anyone.

    Speaking of Holyfield again, one thing I really like about him is how well he's taken care of himself over the years. Even today, he looks to be in good shape.
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    Originally Posted by eomrat View Post
    Hopefully the fighters read this thread before the match so they will know what to do to win.
    There's no doubt that they will. We should probably charge for the profound analysis.
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    Originally Posted by armies View Post
    I feel like Ruiz is going to win again
    Teddy Atlas is predicting Joshua in the late rounds, FWIW. Personally, I think if Joshua wins, it will be by decision. I don't see Ruiz getting knocked out by anybody. I think Joshua can potentially outbox him, maybe even knock him down again, but I doubt that he'll really hurt him.

    So, if there's a knockout, it will be a Ruiz victory. If there's a decision, it may well go to Joshua.

    5 cents, please!
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    Originally Posted by ElrondHubbard View Post
    5 cents, please!
    I think Joshua will have an easy time with Ruiz this time around and we'll all wonder why and how we got the results of their first meeting that we did, As great of a story as it was/is, it was a fluke and I'd bet heavily on it.

    Joshua inside of 10 !

    Shades of Rahman/Lewis from years ago !
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    Originally Posted by ElrondHubbard View Post
    I should have said “rarely”. Yeah, it did happen a few times, and there was Ken Norton who always seemed to know just how to neutralize him. But on those few occasions he did get caught, he had a hell of a chin.
    Yup. I've always wondered why Norton gave him such a hard time. There always seemed to be a boxer that matches up a little too well against you (like Marquez against Pacquio, Pryor against Arguello). Ruiz just might be Joshua's Huckleberry.
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    Originally Posted by ajdahlheimer View Post
    Right, I guess I was referring more to an actual KO punch though (see Wilder-Ruiz)......
    Agreed. Ali, even past his glory days, was never knocked out except for a TKO against Larry Holmes when Ali was an old man.
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    Originally Posted by ElrondHubbard View Post
    In some strange ways, I see some similarities between Fury and Ali. Fury's not as fast, but he's very quick for his size. He has a good jab, great vision, and fine instincts. Also great reaction time. Most of all, he's a master bullshi**er and trash talker.

    When he beat Klitschko, I was not impressed. I thought it was a great defensive fight, and certainly caused Klitschko a lot of frustration, but he didn't do much offensively. I didn't think he deserved the win. More recently, I've developed respect for the man. He seems to have put his personal demons behind him, and he's matured as a fighter, and showed great heart.

    He's got his weaknesses, but he's going to be a difficult challenge for anyone.

    Speaking of Holyfield again, one thing I really like about him is how well he's taken care of himself over the years. Even today, he looks to be in good shape.
    Pretty good analysis.
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    Roy Jones had a chance to interview Evander Holyfield about Joshua.

    Roy Jones: "Evander, what is your advice to Joshua as he faces Ruiz for the rematch?"

    Evander Holyfield: "If he do what he do, it gonna be a knock out. Now ----- if he don't do what he do ------ it gonna be a long night."
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    Ruiz is too dangerous, he's like the Mexican version of Mike Tyson, one punch and you are out or at least in a lot of trouble
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