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  1. #1
    Registered User faxanadu's Avatar
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    Question Millions of self-help books/vids...

    ...and the vast majority of people can't get their chit right still. People buy self-help books, pay for programs, and watch videos ... and nothing. New Years hits and they have big plans on how great they're going to be from then on out ... and it just fizzles after a week. We live in the greatest information age yet. Almost every answer to every questions is just a click away ... yet the vast majority of people still flounder?

    So in a bit of irony, with all this information is out there, why is it that there hasn't been at least one guru that seems to have solved this chronic problem? I'm curious what misc'ers think the key ingredient that all these gurus seem to be missing is?


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    Breaker of Gains JStrez's Avatar
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    It starts and it ends with you. It really all comes down to mental fortitude and what you can put up with. Some people can control their urges to eat, drink, etc. and some people can't, it's literally that simple. You will never know until you step out of your comfort zone.
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    Registered User NextPound's Avatar
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    People lie to themselves. Reading a self-help book is far easier than doing the work. So the lie is you are doing something if you are reading the book. Most of those people do not get past the acquiring the knowledge part.
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    Registered User oldandintheway's Avatar
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    The only people self help books help are the authors.......and their bank accounts
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    Unregistered User 2RDEYE's Avatar
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    self-help books are garbage

    the more information one has the more they lose in my opinion. you need that balance of knowing what you need to do or what it is and not knowing things at the same time, i think anyways.

    it's like you get cancer, and you're so filled with hope, then you read studies and studies that say "little chance of success, probability of dying happening increased" then you lose that hope.

    or you're so excited about travelling, then you read more and more about the place you're going to and suddenly you know everything or you think you know everything about that place that you don't want to go there anymore.
    Last edited by 2RDEYE; 12-03-2019 at 02:32 PM.
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    Platinum User hiyooo's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by faxanadu View Post
    We live in the greatest information age yet.
    100% but it's like the Bruce Lee says.

    “Knowing is not enough, we must apply. Willing is not enough, we must do.” ― Bruce Lee
    A lot of my friends are exactly like this "oh please, I am not stupid and I know I can easily do it at any time I want to, meh I just don't want to."

    I beleive that's why most people fail. If you're actually smart, then you should realize you need to take actions in real life instead of making up excuses aka fear of failure.

    Originally Posted by NextPound View Post
    People lie to themselves. Reading a self-help book is far easier than doing the work. So the lie is you are doing something if you are reading the book. Most of those people do not get past the acquiring the knowledge part.
    ^
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    Registered Winner PassiveLearner's Avatar
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    Self-help books exist because doing the things they usually discuss, e.g. weight loss, being a better student / worker, being more disciplined, working through depression, etc. are extremely difficult even if simple (e.g. eat less than you burn = lose weight, but consistently eating less than you burn to lose weight is extremely difficult for the vast majority of people.)

    Self-help is utter trash and does nothing to improve lives, unfortunately.

    Human nature doesn't give a fuk about your little goals.
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    Registered User Drinman's Avatar
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    For most people, the act of reading a self-help book or taking a program gives enough of a dopamine spike to trick our primitive brains into thinking we are actually improving our lives.

    Couple this with the fact that our brains are programmed for millions of years to prevent us from changing unless there is an absolute, dire emergency right in front of us and you have a losing combination.

    Self improvement is definitely possible however you have to understand how the brain works and have a real desire to change.
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    Registered User alltrapbrah's Avatar
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    It’s because change occurs as a result of the right conditions, as opposed to merely the right knowledge/learning.
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    Registered User Suqat's Avatar
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    What most people don't realize it is not how you feel, it is about measurable success. Society values feels over facts. Hence, the huge failure rate.

    Also, most people are disposed to be lazy, natural selection didn't root that trait out.
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  11. #11
    Registered User MediocreGains's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by oldandintheway View Post
    The only people self help books help are the authors.......and their bank accounts
    This, as well as making people feel better about themselves by giving the illusion that they're doing something when they're not.
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  12. #12
    B- grad student Cadet4life's Avatar
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    lack of discipline. people cant follow through with their ideas and stick to them
    be the turtle in the race.
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  13. #13
    Registered User faxanadu's Avatar
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    wtf

    ... why does this site throw a 404 error when you do a lengthy response ... but then has no issue posting a 3 letter response.
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  14. #14
    Registered User faxanadu's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cadet4life View Post
    lack of discipline. people cant follow through with their ideas and stick to them
    That's kind of a "no-duh" in the general sense. Although, I'm not even sure it's accurate. I know plenty of people that are extremely disciplined in one area of their life yet lack it completely in others.

    I think a better answer is that people are slaves to their biology and upbringing. And trying to rewrite that script is fkn hard... especially the older you get.
    Last edited by faxanadu; 12-03-2019 at 04:53 PM.
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    Registered User faxanadu's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MediocreGains View Post
    This, as well as making people feel better about themselves by giving the illusion that they're doing something when they're not.
    BS

    I'm pretty sure people like Tim Ferriss don't sit around with Mr. Burns fingers trying to figure out how to swindle people out of more money with their next book. In fact, I'm pretty sure the guy writes the books moreso for himself (he wants to know/get better). It's up to the reader to do something with the knowledge. Why so many people seemingly can't despite being completely unsatisfied with their life is the mystery.
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    Wage Cuckin' It BetaAsPhuck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NextPound View Post
    People lie to themselves. Reading a self-help book is far easier than doing the work. So the lie is you are doing something if you are reading the book. Most of those people do not get past the acquiring the knowledge part.
    This. 100%.

    Based on years of personal experience of working on self-change...

    You need to find a way of re-conditioning you self-talk and beliefs daily. Whether that is talking to yourself consciously inside your own head, writing exercises, talking to yourself in a mirror, prayer, etc.

    Insight is not healing. Reading a non-fiction book alone rarely changes anyone, just like listening to a talk rarely changes anyone.

    Re-conditioning heals, and that requires repetition, from various angles.

    Every religious mystic and spiritual counsellor has known this, because everyone that I've ever heard or read advise having a daily practice.

    It requires daily work, and it will be emotionally uncomfortable too.

    The advice: Develop a daily practice. Re-asses or change things up every couple of months. But have a daily practice. Is something that I needed to hear before I began my journey, and I wish it was told to anyone who is trying to heal trauma and/or develop themselves.
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    Registered User faxanadu's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BetaAsPhuck View Post
    This. 100%.

    Based on years of personal experience of working on self-change...

    You need to find a way of re-conditioning you self-talk and beliefs daily. Whether that is talking to yourself consciously inside your own head, writing exercises, talking to yourself in a mirror, prayer, etc.

    Insight is not healing. Reading a non-fiction book alone rarely changes anyone, just like listening to a talk rarely changes anyone.

    Re-conditioning heals, and that requires repetition, from various angles.

    Every religious mystic and spiritual counsellor has known this, because everyone that I've ever heard or read advise having a daily practice.

    It requires daily work, and it will be emotionally uncomfortable too.
    Well said


    The bold reminds me of something i recall Tony Robins saying once... "Movement is not achievement"
    Last edited by faxanadu; 12-03-2019 at 05:21 PM.
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    Originally Posted by BetaAsPhuck View Post
    This. 100%.

    Based on years of personal experience of working on self-change...

    You need to find a way of re-conditioning you self-talk and beliefs daily. Whether that is talking to yourself consciously inside your own head, writing exercises, talking to yourself in a mirror, prayer, etc.

    Insight is not healing. Reading a non-fiction book alone rarely changes anyone, just like listening to a talk rarely changes anyone.

    Re-conditioning heals, and that requires repetition, from various angles.

    Every religious mystic and spiritual counsellor has known this, because everyone that I've ever heard or read advise having a daily practice.

    It requires daily work, and it will be emotionally uncomfortable too.

    The advice: Develop a daily practice. Re-asses or change things up every couple of months. But have a daily practice. Is something that I needed to hear before I began my journey, and I wish it was told to anyone who is trying to heal trauma and/or develop themselves.
    But if we slapped this in a book and it became a best seller, would you go down in history as the guy who cracked the code?

    Something tells me ‘no’.

    And I disagree with your last line about needing to hear a particular msg before you began your journey. It wouldn’t have made a difference imo. Why? Because you probably weren’t ready in some way or another. Like I said, change occurs as a result of the right conditions, and unfortunately many conditions are beyond our control.
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    People naturally want to be told what to do, led by the hand. You have to pay somebody to hold you accountable. I pay a guy 50 cents a day to text me and make sure I wake up extra early and work on career related things. Otherwise, i don't get anything done.
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    Registered User faxanadu's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alltrapbrah View Post
    But if we slapped this in a book and it became a best seller, would you go down in history as the guy who cracked the code?

    Something tells me ‘no’.

    And I disagree with your last line about needing to hear a particular msg before you began your journey. It wouldn’t have made a difference imo. Why? Because you probably weren’t ready in some way or another. Like I said, change occurs as a result of the right conditions, and unfortunately many conditions are beyond our control.
    Disagree. That's a very outside-in approach ... which might also be the source of the rampant victimhood mentality that seems to be everywhere these days.

    The reality in which most people live is in very large part manifested through self-projection. Focus determines reality more than anything. I've seen countless people including myself consistently set in motion the exact variables needed in order to reaffirm their personal reality. So what they end up with is a constant life-long cycle of:

    1. Believing the universe is specifically out to get them / their a failure / or they just are a certain way
    2. Subconsciously/consciously manifesting the same variables for the 2 millionth time in the their life that...
    3. Creates the same environmental and emotional response for the 2 millionth and one time
    4. To which they go... "See! I am x, y, and z!"
    5. All the while their ego shields them from seeing that their beliefs/thoughts/focus is the source of the cycle

    SIDE NOTE: There are many people that if you point this out to them get EXTREMELY defensive and angry.

    This IMO is why you see people jump from one destructive relationship/partner to the next. Swap one bad habit for another. And so on...

    To unlearn what you have learned is as BetaAsPhuck sorta described an emotional fk-fest in the beginning. What you're effectively doing is describing a new reality (inside-out) for yourself before it even physically exists. That is often going to be 180 degrees of what is normal to you ... and therefore completely outside of most peoples emotional comfort zone. Hence why people fail so easily when it comes to New Years resolutions. They have this vision of who they want to be in the future. A vision strong enough to push them to take some kind of action. However, they're fighting a massive emotional current that makes them feel uncomfortable. As soon as they give in to their old ways for just a split second ... things feel massively normal and comfortable again. So they settle back in to the same o'l same o'l for the ten millionth time. Meanwhile, they continue to be plagued by this nagging "failure"... "what-if" playing in the back of their mind.
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    The core issue of self-help is not not knowing what to do but rather just not doing it.
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    Originally Posted by lucrative View Post
    People naturally want to be told what to do, led by the hand. You have to pay somebody to hold you accountable. I pay a guy 50 cents a day to text me and make sure I wake up extra early and work on career related things. Otherwise, i don't get anything done.
    Reps.

    I think some kind of social accountability would do wonders for most people. Just simply having to admit even the smallest failure to someone (plus monetary loss) is a powerful motivator.
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    Originally Posted by faxanadu View Post
    BS

    I'm pretty sure people like Tim Ferriss don't sit around with Mr. Burns fingers trying to figure out how to swindle people out of more money with their next book. In fact, I'm pretty sure the guy writes the books moreso for himself (he wants to know/get better). It's up to the reader to do something with the knowledge. Why so many people seemingly can't despite being completely unsatisfied with their life is the mystery.
    That they believe in their own bullchit doesn't make it any less bullchit.

    And yes, there is a lot of knowledge out there. If you have the motivation, curiosity, and intellectual capacity, you can learn languages, history, biology, literature, art, psychology, crafts and trades, and so on. You'll find practically none of that in self-help books.
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    Originally Posted by MediocreGains View Post
    That they believe in their own bullchit doesn't make it any less bullchit.
    You're trying to reframe things ... for whatever reason i dunno. You initially stated "illusion" which presupposes that they trying to purposely deceive and BS people for a quick buck.

    And yes, there is a lot of knowledge out there. If you have the motivation, curiosity, and intellectual capacity, you can learn languages, history, biology, literature, art, psychology, crafts and trades, and so on. You'll find practically none of that in self-help books.
    Teaching someone how to learn, structure themselves, and rebuild their lives is also knowledge and useful. I'd argue it is the foundation to a higher quality of life... one with less barriers and reinventing the wheel.
    Last edited by faxanadu; 12-03-2019 at 09:22 PM.
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    This is because the amount of excitement that comes with starting something new can't be ignored.

    I'm just making up stats, but 90% of people know of changes that they need to make in their lives, 95% of that 90% will take initiative to take the first few steps on how to change that, but only 1-5% of those 95% will be there at the end after ch*t gets hard and they face any kind of adversity.
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    Wage Cuckin' It BetaAsPhuck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alltrapbrah View Post
    But if we slapped this in a book and it became a best seller, would you go down in history as the guy who cracked the code?

    Something tells me ‘no’.
    The advice itself - regarding the necessity of daily practice - is not daily practice, so it of course it does not produce change. Anyone reading that advice would actually have to implement it.

    The advice also is not the means of transformation, implementing it is. And the practices that work, are going to vary from individual to individual, depending on what they need to work on. That's not something that can be mass packaged.

    Practically every Religious mystic and person who gives spiritual counsel has been saying the same thing, for hundreds upon hundreds of years. Do a daily practice.


    And I disagree with your last line about needing to hear a particular msg before you began your journey. It wouldn’t have made a difference imo. Why? Because you probably weren’t ready in some way or another. Like I said, change occurs as a result of the right conditions, and unfortunately many conditions are beyond our control.
    I think you are wrong, based on personal experience. I don't think it's dependent soley on the right conditions, I think it's also dependent on the right advice, as well as a motivation to pursue. I think key things are; right conditions, right advice, and motivation.

    A lot of people motivated to make change can just spin wheels, and then get demotivated, due to ineffective advice.

    I personally pursued the 'normie' advice of simply putting myself in social situations to desensitize myself to anxiety and develop social skills - I took a job in security, cold approached, and went out regularly - I didn't become a social butterfly, and I came across as weird to people. Because that advice leaves out key parts for a lot of people, which is doing a daily practices to change internal dialogue, analyzing what good social skills are, practices to change your physiology, and working through past trauma with a counsellor/therapists.

    When I was explicitly told to practice something every day for personal change - it was from taking part in a Christian spiritual development course called; Freedom In Christ , and also provided an analogy about what happens when we do something daily to change a belief, that's when tried it and saw the importance of it. They were literally the first people I came across who explictly stressed the importance of daily change, and provided an analogy that appealed to my mind, along with seemingly sincere testimonies about how effective it was. What they actually were providing was a mixture of CBT thought challenging practices mixed with Christian theology, in order to help change peoples negative beliefs about themselves.
    Last edited by BetaAsPhuck; 12-04-2019 at 03:14 AM.
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    Wage Cuckin' It BetaAsPhuck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by faxanadu View Post
    To unlearn what you have learned is as BetaAsPhuck sorta described an emotional fk-fest in the beginning. What you're effectively doing is describing a new reality (inside-out) for yourself before it even physically exists. That is often going to be 180 degrees of what is normal to you ... and therefore completely outside of most peoples emotional comfort zone.
    I agree, it is not a picnic.

    Even letting go of toxic beliefs or thought patterns can be uncomfortable, and that probably has a lot to do with them being familiar, even comforting, and also may protect you from taking action.

    "What's the point in trying X, because people are like Y." etc. "What's the point in trying X, because I know exactly how it's going to turn out." "All people are like X."
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    Some of you guys underrate just how lazy, risk averse, negative and afraid the average person is.

    There are just some souls that are here to be and do primitive things, it is written, not that they can't do great things, they just refuse.

    I've seen it first hand in the past year of my life, it is truly insane how much you have to pull people's teeth to help them. To an extent I saw it when I worked selling gym membies, but getting in shape actually takes time, what I've seen in the past year made me realize that even if it didn't take all that much time, I don't think it would be too much different as to who is in shape and who isn't.
    Through every generation of the human race there has been a constant war, a war with fear. Those who have the courage to conquer it are made free and those who are conquered by it are made to suffer until they have the courage to defeat it, or death takes them.
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    self help is ****ing based on gnostic occult ****. they bastardise the bible and make it all about material possesions which are important, but thats the pinnacle of these people's lives. ****ing starving kids in africa cant think positive or use the law of attraction. nobody until the 1900s discovered this magic meaning its a fraud - its just a gateway to satanic forces in my opinion for retarded moderns.

    now having said that, if you sift through it there can be very practical pieces of wisdom but that goes for any book. but laws of attraction, correspondance, ****ing weird **** like that is the basis of pretty much all of the books that are out there like napolean hill.

    the rest is multi level marketing
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